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Vet should be required to Bond to Pets requireing more than one control slot.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by weins201, Feb 11, 2009.

  1. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    This would make some of those stupid PvP tamers who dont have either enough vet to res their pets or any vet at all to rethink their game plans.:gun:

    If you have a pet that requires more than 2 Control slots (exempt the fire and pack beetle) then youneed at least 80 vet to be able to bond to them. This skill must be maintained. If you stone off the 80 Vet and have a pet out of stables it immediatly unbonds. If its in the stable not a problem.

    This will get rid a few of those pesky PvP tamers you all whine about. Not all but a few.
    :scholar:
     
  2. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Nah, bad idea...la
     
  3. Tycolby

    Tycolby Guest

    So I will need 80 vet to bond my swampy to my Sammy?
     
  4. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    I would agree that something needs to be done about the PvP specific tamer templates... most are a little too over the top. Especially with skill jewelry. As an example, I was able to get a pair of NICE taming jewels(2/4 fc/fcr with 28 taming *eek* ) So in essence, I was able to handle super dragons with under 200 skill points invested. That leaves 520 to put into some PvP specific skills.

    With that said, this shows one of the joys of Ultima... the ability to make whatever funky template your heart desires.

    Only skill I would love to see be tweaked is ninja and animal form. It is flat out being abused with the super dragons. I think the simple fix is treat going into animal form as using a control slot. Got 5 control slots filled? No animal form for you:scholar:

    What they really need to do is curb the damage pets are doing in PvP. The super dragons are WAY over the top.:spider:
     
  5. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Stop bumping the thread :p

    The devs have stated that a balance for pets in pvp is going to be adressed probably in the next patch so leave it be and wait to see what they do...then you can start crying nerf on the next thing...maybe cartographers?!?

    Edit: besides do you not realise that all a temp would have to do is keep 2-3 GD's in the stable? one dies get another...ask a guildy to tame you one incase your next dies, plus with the log out and stall would be pointless.
     
  6. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    This is suggesting that I would need to put vet on my Samurais to bond my Lesser Hiryu? Bad idea...
     
  7. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    I agree that Vet should be a required skill in order to bond and/or control high end pets.

    But I don't think the OP's idea is a very good way to implement a fix.

    A simpler fix would be to make the amount of Vet required to control or bond a pet the same level as the pet's minimum taming skill.
     
  8. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    So because somebody can get by at keeping their pets alive without vet, they don't deserve to have them bond?

    No thanks.
     

  9. Sounds like someone got pwned by a Tamer!

    Honestly I don't see how Greater Dragons are that overpowered. I have a legendary mage tamer and I take more dirt naps when I PvP with him (and that is rarely) than I do with a Legendary Archer. Nerfing Tamers is not the answer to balance. I think the fix was mentioned to reduce the amount of damage a Greater Dragon does on players and keep it the same on monsters.
     
  10. ZippyTwitch

    ZippyTwitch Lore Keeper
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    I hate a tamer and even I think all tamers should be required to have vet. A real tamer can vet their pet.
     
  11. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    Yes every template will require vet to have any pet bond.:sleep2:
    Everyone has to wear a uniform too and can do no more or less damage than any other template ( I am in charge of course).

    No colors other than gray and darker gray.

    No more elves.

    No more choice of weapons( you will be issued hammer picks).

    There will be no option for speech(ever).

    Animal form will have one choice in the menu(ape).

    No combo templates at all you get nothing but macing.

    All housing will become single room kennels(no locks)

    Yay for Pie!
     
  12. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    That the only graphic you have these days? It would appear you fail...la
     
  13. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    I am pretty sure there are other ways to fix those all kill happy pvpers. That **** is addictive lol.

    Anyways I recently acquired a dread (in fact 2 of them) horse. Can someone tell me why my nearly perfect nightmare with max possible hp fire breathe me for 20dmg while my 628 hp dread that only takes 1 extra slot can do the same firebreathe for 58? That's triple the dmg than the best mare you can find. Anyways I made a tamer mage and tried a few instant kill combo with my dreads in pvp... omg no wonder tamers don't want this **** nerfed. I now have two tamers on two shard with GD and dreads and to be honest, if you know how to play your template right (the all kill part takes little skill and timing) weather an archer or mage, you ARE overpowered in pvp. I will meet anyone who don't think I have a tamer gimplet pvper in game and show you my GD and multiple dreads.

    As a pvper I still prefer balances over overpowered crap even if it means nerfing my own "hard earned" tamer status. For the record, my pvp tamer has 110 real taming and my pvm tamer has 120 real taming.
     
  14. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Yep and you can get all that power for around 180 skill points.
     
  15. Oriana

    Oriana Babbling Loonie
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    Gotta agree here. I earned those Bush points so I could bond with a lesser. That was the rules and should stay. imo
     
  16. BartofCats

    BartofCats Guest

    I see 3 people saying that their samurai wont bond... however the samurai doesnt have a greater dragon that the op is probably complaining about.

    I think a better solution to this PVP complaint, is more to the point to have the Vet skill required on a 5 slot pet. not a 4 slot, or less.

    I mean I have both, and i really would hate to see that my samurai cannot use a hiyru because of the lack of vet. that would be aweful.
     
  17. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    lol... :hahaha:

    In all seriousness, it isn't a good idea. Samurai 侍 as well as dexxers use pets that take up a few slots AND...its not as if their pets are a major threat anyways.
     
  18. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Maybe have an increased stat/skill loss for tamer-only pets* that are resurrected by another tamer. At the moment it's negligible, but if it were something like -2.0 to -5.0 to every skill for every non-self-ressed pet, it would quickly weed out the twinks.

    *For lesser hiryus when Bushido requirement is met, no such penalty.
     
  19. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    Better yet non ridable pets cant be bonded. I remember before bonding tamers had something else to do besides PvM and PvP they also sold pets. Ridables that can do great damage like mares, dread mares,kir-in, uni's exc.exc cant be bonded either. Before people get their panties in a bunch I still have the same mare and wyrm I tamed myself early UO:R and they survived well enough before bonding. Items should break, Pets should Die, simple as that.
     
  20. Radun

    Radun Guest

    I don't see how this is going to solve anything.. I don't even recognize a problem with a tamer getting their pet ressed by a vet... Where's the problem with a tamer not having vet to res pets themselves?
    To make them use 80 skillpoint that could have been for something else? That wouldn't even come close to solving anything.

    The problem is that the pets themselves are overpowered, regardless of what skills are on the tamer's template.... take 80 skillpoints away from that tamer's other skills in their template, and the pets will still be overpowered.

    taming/lore = control/bonding
    vet/lore = res pets

    Not having vet means downtime trying to get someone else to res the pet your character is dependent on to function.. it also means less stable slots. Seems like a fair trade-off to me..

    Again, I don't see why the template of the tamer is the issue... there's nothing unfair about the other skills in the templates, it's the just the pets that need to be tweaked.

    P.S. increased skill-loss for pets ressed by someone other than the owner... not as bad an idea.
     
  21. Pfloyd

    Pfloyd Colorblind Collector
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    Up until the time someone dies to a 10 skill across the board GD...just because someone doesnt know how to kill these things or decides not to go into a battle prepared to fight one doesnt mean it needs to be nerfed so badly. Firebreath is based on current HP's which i dont think gets affected by skill.
     
  22. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Want to have a mage duel? I will be using my tamer mage (you can pick the pets I use either a GD or Dread+Bake) against a non-taming mage template of your choice. Please come prepared. We will duel at a 18x18 plot, no offscreen is possible. On foot no pots no precast... you know just like good ol mage duels.

    Again please come prepared, or naked either way I will have you dead in seconds. And I will tell you, all I would be casting during the duel will be weaken, arrow, and poison, I wont even curse you. Then you can tell me another excuse about how you just lost a "fair" and "square" duel to a tamer mage template that wasnt overpowered 1v1 at all.
     
  23. Radun

    Radun Guest

    sounds about right.
     
  24. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Any pet that requires over 80 skill to control should require 80 vet to bond. Tamers can PvP with unbonded pets. And having vet on a template doesn't mean you can't kill anyone either...I manage fine, and I'm no uber PvPer. So let's stop pretending that poor tamers will be weak and puny because they need to use vet to bond. PvP tamers simply drop vet to make an already powerful template even stronger. Because they can. They can abuse the log out feature to save pets from dying, so the lack of vet is quite feasible. If you can cut out a skill from a hybrid template without a real penalty, that's what you do. Requiring vet to bond a pet would just mean you had to either use unbonded pets or build some vet skill in somewhere.

    Lesser hiryu already require plenty of skill to control, so I think rather than vet, say anatomy or healing would do. I'm not even sure there needs to be a change from the current lesser bonding arrangements.

    Anything that anyone can own should bond with any character too.

    Wenchy
     
  25. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Ok so people throw on vet after the pets in the stables for a week.. bonds, soulstones it off.

    Pets don't become unbonded because of a lack of taming skill (site necro mages with a Bake Kitsune for reference).
     
  26. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Did I really need to say that bonding shouldn't stick when the tamer soulstones vet?

    Pets shouldn't remain bonded when the tamer lacks the skill to bond with them. If a necro can't maintain vamp form without the necessary skill, why should a tamer keep their pet bonded after they soulstone vet off? Stable slots are another thing which shouldn't be maintained without the skill IMO.

    With bonding, tamers should get a message saying that their pet has been unbonded and it should get sent to the stable so they can choose if they use it unbonded.

    Wenchy
     
  27. hmm... I thought about it, read the threads and think there has to be a better way to balance PvP if that is your intent. Personally, I just can't imagine NOT having vet on my tamer, but shouldn't think it be made a requirement for any pet... it's the same effect as requiring 100+ skill scrolls for taming dragons, and other skills.

    Along this line of thinking...
    Require 80 blacksmithing to insure any weapon (pet bonding)
    Require 80 Alchemy to use Greater Cure
    Require 80 Detect Hidden and 80 Remove Traps to unlock lvl 6 treasure chest
    Can't rez from another player or healer unless you have 80 healing

    I just don't think the skill requirements as suggest to bond with a greater dragon works.
     
  28. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Agreed, the easier way would be nerfing overpowered pets.
     
  29. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    The way I see it is this. If we don't change something which only affects gimplate tamers, whatever comes is likely to affect all tamers, regardless of whether they even enter Fel. And even if we accept that we all get nerfed, without a drastic change like this those gimplates are still going to be stronger than their better trained peers in Fel.

    Requiring vet is the sort of change which will deter gimplates, but enable the rest of us to go about our business as normal. Any changes should be directed to the source of the problem, thus PvP tamer changes should affect the PvP tamers first, and if absolutely necessary the PvM ones. PvM tamers would get off barely touched if this sort of change was implemented. Which I'd have thought would be a good thing.

    I believe that the most powerful tamers should be those who invest most skill in their profession, not least. If these PvP tamers are so good, they'll still score kills with vet in their template.

    Wenchy
     
  30. Ya, I understand that Wenchy, and since I already have 115 vet what you suggest wouldn't affect me. I would just hate to think this would be EA's method to "balance" all PvP by increase skill requirement.

    I guess my biggest beef to any Tamer Nerf is that ALL PvP skills should be balanced simultaneously, rather than piecemeal. The piecemeal approach takes too long and turns players into "follow today's L33t template" chasers, always leaving one style being overpowered.
     
  31. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    For balancing templates they need to nerf the items that negate skill. like a dart trap with apples, negates resist. They need to tone down some pets vs people only.
     
  32. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    My understanding is that it won't just be tamers who get balanced in the near future though, and if other classes are balanced around us we'd kinda stick out even more hehe. But yeah, I'm sure it was Draconi who said the stuff they put on TC was just the start of a balancing pass for PvP, so it should *hopefully* be over the board. I don't want tamers hurt more than any other class, because I do live in Fel... I just don't want us to be hated overpowered gimps either :D

    Wenchy
     
  33. Actually its a good idea. Some ideas just come to late. The Vet skill is like tending to the needs of the Tame. It would have made sense to start it off that way.

    The higher your VET the stronger the bond. The stronger the bond the more commands it can do. The stronger the bond (Higher vet) the greater it can resist being turned by the crimson dragon.

    Its a very good idea. Just to late.
     
  34. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    Maybe this has already been brought up but in skimming over this thread I didn't catch it.

    What about people who own giant beetles and fire beetles? They take 3 control slots and rarely is it just a tamer who owns them. Why should they have to add vet just own one of these?
     
  35. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I think all pets which can be owned by anyone should be able to bond with anyone too. Which would include giant and fire beetles :)

    Wenchy
     
  36. Well I would look at this OP and go, !What! my Crafter will need vet now?! Then I saw, Oh he talking about PvP tamers, and I would suggest that the three main skills, taming, animal lore, and Vet all be a requirement for that "Battle" pet to bonded and under control!
     
  37. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    I can see something like this effecting more than just tamers.

    Samurais using lesser hiryus
    Crafters/mules using blue/fire beetles

    If someone can find a way to balance it out for PvP tamers while not effecting these other multiple control slot animal users...please feel free to give your ideas.

    Making vet a part of control/bonding or what have you isn't going to deter PvP tamers that much. I have a PvM/PvP tamer and i'm just as powerful and effective as the dreadmare using mage with no vet.

    IMO it's the pet's magical/firebreath damage in PvP vs. Humans that needs to be addressed, not what skills the tamer has.

    If someone is running w/out vet, so be it. They still have to find someone to rez their pets when they die.
     

  38. Sorry the only way I would agree to this is if they also went and made it so that when you died, you had to go make a totally new character and start all over in the world of UO with nothing in your bank box or pack and no skill stone away. So take this idea and stuff it under a BIG rock!
     
  39. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    Maybe you answered my question or maybe I didn't ask it clear enough.

    The title of the thread is "Vet should be required to Bond to Pets requiring more than one control slot". Since giant beetles and fire beetles require 3 control slots are they suggesting that anyone who owns these pets should be required to have vet in order to bond with their pets?
     
  40. Hmm... well then, how about adding Vet skill as a requirement to control rather than pet bonding, for 4 and 5 slot pets? Enough vet kill (more than 30) so you couldn't satisfy it with just jewelry, say the 80 mark you mentioned.
     
  41. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    While you're definately correct about the firebreathe being a major problem.. I also think being able to control the most powerful tamables in the game for around 180 skills points is idiotic.

    At least 300 skill points should be needed in order to control high end pets.

    That never happens and you know it.

    The pet insta log feature is abused all day, every day to save pets.

    This also needs to be fixed.
     
  42. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Requiring high vet skill to control might be a good idea. But if that crazy 65+ fire breathe from three screens away from GD or Dread is still unchanged people will still abuse them in PvP even if it means to gimp down 1 skill to make up for vet.

    Currently taming lore is the BEST investment you can get. Thats less than 200 skill point for the ability to instant killing people. AND vet isnt all that necessary. Relog and your pet is safe and sound.

    Vet for a control factor would be great. Or increase the rate of loyal decay by a ton on the overpowered I mean the higher end pets unless you have vet then the rate of decay will be dropped wayyyy slow.
     
  43. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    I'm ok with 80 vet being tied to 100% control chance if you have the proper amount of taming/lore as has been mentioned before. In no way it effects my PvP/PvM tamer. I run with 115 lore, 110 taming, 100 vet using enhanced bandies. And still wtfkill people =)
     
  44. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I love how a forum filled with mostly non-pvpers find time to give feedback, suggestions, and complaints about PvP.
     
  45. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    I PvP.

    I'm at work so I have time to kill =)

    I think pet damage should be toned down. At least the firebreaths. But i'm afraid they're gonna tone down everything =/

    I mean I did kill someone yesterday with just my nightmare. I was in awe... the person I killed is a pretty decent PvPer too.
     
  46. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    I love how people who mainly do PvP find time to give feedback, suggestions and complaints that affect EVERYONE and NOT just PvP!
     
  47. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I think the PvP tamers would like that less, because that would prevent them from using even an unbonded pet in PvP. I think the control calculation should involve tame and lore and the bonding would require min taming skill + 80 lore and vet. Bear in mind, I'm suggesting that when the tamer's skill drops below the requirement, the pet is unbonded and stabled. That would happen when they died and their jewels came off too, so the items wouldn't really help.

    Wenchy
     
  48. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I think the OP forgot about the beetles. Even trained they're hardly mass killers. Or my miner has been missing a lot of fun at Yew gate!

    Wenchy
     
  49. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    I think you are right and that is what I was trying to get him/her to see. You can't blanket a solution and expect it to work for everyone because inevitably there will be an exception.
     
  50. Radun

    Radun Guest

    QFT:scholar: