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Void Pool rewards: Am I missing something?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Meatbread, May 5, 2012.

  1. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    As I understand it from my current reading, all the good stuff comes from fighting Cora herself. All the Void Pool can get you are points with which to buy A) crafter items so limited in lifespan that you can't even sell them and B) the worthless "ephemeral" versions of the new artifacts.

    So like... what's the point? They could have just made the crafting stuff BOD rewards and saved themselves the trouble. They added this whole "new form of PVM" and really it's only for the combat alts of hardcore crafters?

    What?
     
  2. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    you forget the chance to be make a new record over your shard :p
     
  3. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    From [Feedback] - Covetous revamp *spoilers* | Stratics Forums:

    I haven't gotten any of the new arties myself, but I did get a 10th anni arty. Not sure if the arty SlayerofBunnys got shared the ephemeral tag or not, though.

    I wouldn't downplay the crafter rewards. They're making valorite runics/re-forging easier than ever. Now if they would only kill the Heartwood quests grind.
     
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  4. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I believe the goal may be to get the crafters out of their houses. On Siege it could bring more life to the shard and we may again see someone protecting the dungeon against PK's. It could turn out to be a new PvP hotspot.
    I wonder if the forge can be placed in dungeons like near earth elements or in solen holes. With a forge and this temp mining skills, Freja could get alot ingots for Tina Tink. Right now I just leave it on the body, it's to heavy to bring home.
     
  5. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    To make sure we have things to complain about. :p (Sarcasm)
     
  6. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    Hey if they don't have the ephemeral tag then game on. If so then sheesh. That ephemeral junk is about as meaningful as all the brittle/cursed junk.
     
  7. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    I'm not really seeing a big bonus for crafters. The time limits are too short and the yeild too little. Take the valorite talisman for example. So you get a garunteed smelt of 750 ingots. You need 500 points to get that talisman. From what I read, a fella can solo a round of attack, netting 90 points. That sounds about spot on with points i got for the time I spent in the fights. So thats what, 30 min or so fighting and a 15 min cool down for 90 points. 5 rounds of that and you're 4 hours in for that 500 point talisman. Valorite has what a 50% smelt chance? So you'd get 50% of that 750 ingots anyway smelting as you go. I may be way off on the math, you may be able to get more points in a single round. But even cutting that 4 hours in half that I'm not wasting 2hrs pvming for a net of @375 ingots. I havent experimented with the resource maps but im not holding my breath that they will yield anything worth the time it will take to get them.

    I had high hopes they'd just turn rng resources off instead of adding grinds like these for very little yield..... that actrually has nothing to do with mining. But that seems to be the best they can come up with: pvm for elixer quests, pvm for pirate loot and now pvm for resource maps and mining buffs.
     
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  8. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Actually, the feedback I'm seeing from people who are doing the spawns is 'it's fun'. Isn't that a valid reason to do them? Everything doesn't have to be about getting uber rewards and loot.
     
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  9. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Honestly I don't see the point of the time limits. Crafters cant hunt the monsters, so you have to get them from someone else, but since there's a timer people can only get them for themselves, cant sell them. Is it so bad for people to hoard these items? I would prefer they be permanent and less effective (if they must be) myself.
     
  10. Cirno

    Cirno Purple Pony Princess
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    I might be understanding it wrongly, but couldn't you save the points and only buy the things when you want to use them?
     
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  11. Ron Silverbeard

    Ron Silverbeard Certifiable
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    Question a little off topic:

    - Can you recall in/out as you can do in Shame?
    - If not, can you stealth up to the pool of void and use pet summoning ball?
    - If not, anyone tried to stealth with his dragon up to the pool of void (even the drag dies on the way, you could res him later at the pool as it will still follow a stealther)

    txs!
     
  12. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Yes, that's exactly what you would do.
    If you're intent on selling the item, you'd arrange the meet in Minoc, claim the item then trade it.

    I haven't tried recalling into the dungeon, but you can recall into the pass between levels and you can recall out of the dungeon.
    You don't fight AT the void pool - at least not till you're pushed back to there. You aim to defeat the incoming horde before they get there. They can spawn at either end, yesterday 3 waves came in from the exit end and we fought them there only to find the next wave had come in from the entrance end and snuck in behind us.
     
  13. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Some crafters can't hunt, no. But thankfully we can have more than one character. Hunt on warrior, buy items from pool then pass it off to your crafter. Now on siege that might be a different story.
     
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  14. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    From [Feedback] - Covetous revamp *spoilers* | Stratics Forums:

    If you bought a Miner's Map and a Smelter's Talisman you'd get, theoretically, 225ish valorite ore, maybe more (or 450 ingots) in one sitting. These items might not be for hardcore crafters, because I'm sure a hardcore crafter could find enough valorite ores over the course of four hours to exceed 225 ingots. But we don't know the ceiling at this point.

    IMO, those who like to kill stuff like to find better items to use to kill stuff. They don't necessarily like to grind crafter skills like mining. These items are a perfect fit, as you can kill stuff without thinking about it during the weeknights and then redeem rewards on the weekend. Besides, Wave 30 is pretty easy to get to for a group. When the battle comes out people will be getting to Wave 40-50 usually, and Wave 42, the highest I saw during my stay on Test Center, yielded 172 turn-in points. It's silly to base everything off of what someone can solo unless you plan to only play odd hours; points will flow steadily, at least in the first few weeks.

    Instead of complaining about what they aren't doing right you'd be more constructive in your criticism if you suggested where they ought to go with their direction. Perhaps new BOD rewards? Maybe a change to the entire BOD reward catalog? I'm not sure how much a tailor needs a polar bear rug or stretched leather. Anyway, the battle is a lot more fun and easy to do than the elixir or pirate quests. As for the pirate quests, the main function of those happened to be getting an orc ship, while the bonuses--free cannons, resources--were just bonuses. I don't really look at the pirate quests as crafter-specific. I totally agree with you on the elixir quests, though. Some of those Ter Mur quests are so impossible they aren't worth doing, like the one where you have to kill iron beetles. They don't even spawn after you kill them!

    Content lasts longer if it doesn't last. Hahaha.

    You accrue points and then have the ability to claim items, yes. So you'd work, work, work, then spend the weekend mining. Some items come in DEED form, which lasts 24 hours. Once processed, these deed items last four hours. Other items last four hours after claimed.

    You can recall/gate to the first level (Tram), or outside the dungeon between level three and two. I haven't tried a summoning ball but getting to the Void Pool shouldn't be too much of a hassle unless the battle is past Wave 30.
     
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  15. Ron Silverbeard

    Ron Silverbeard Certifiable
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    txs petra
    so tamers will be able to just gate or recall in and out to the hotspots to farm the waves for points, right?
    And the critters you kill dont got any loot - they just give points, aight?
    So this is...just a new grind...something? hehe
     
  16. Cirno

    Cirno Purple Pony Princess
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    My thoughts were more along the lines of; once you've accrued the points to be able to afford a Glorious Axe of Pickery (or, alternatively, something that exists), you can hold off claiming it until you're ready to use it, or pass it to a character that desires it (with or without a recipricacy of comparative value).
    Meaning that the time limit on items has less impact on their use than it does on their hoarding.
     
  17. Ron Silverbeard

    Ron Silverbeard Certifiable
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    oh btw - do this points DECAY?
     
  18. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Points don't decay to my knowledge. Once you claim an item you have a 24 hour or 4 hour window, depending on the item status. You can hoard points in order to claim multiple items at one time but you can't really horde claimed items due to their temporal state. Not sure if that helps.

    One thing this system might have is a total turn-in point ceiling/capacity. Clean Up Brit had I believe a 10 million point ceiling.
     
  19. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I think point was actually several things... It put a new system mechanic and concept in place, maybe several. It lets the crafter get the tool when ever they want it - now if IRL happens immediately happens, then suxs to be you, but rest assured that's one less tool in the hands of a Bot. As previously stated, it converts a little grind into Fun. The bulk is directed towards crafter alts, the Killers in UO, where a core theme is Kill Monsters, simultaneously providing exclusive benefits to crafters and resource gatherers.
     
  20. Ron Silverbeard

    Ron Silverbeard Certifiable
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    Well txs that's what interrested me, to be able to keep the points as long as you want - you never know, maybe there will be more items added and you wanna save the points..

    I think its a good idea - you can grind points, and get more or less usefull items for it - you decide whats usefull and not - you cant realy sell them - but you can use them and sell items you grind with the crafting items you use - for me thats a nice system - we'll see if it works out..
     
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  21. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    So wait....On these crafting items that have a 24-hour timer.

    Those are purchased, right? so you don't necessarily have to go immediately from fighting in Covetous to crafting or resource gathering, right? Also can you leave the items from one character to the other?

    -Galen's player
     
  22. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    You kill the monsters to get points. The points collect until you choose to spend them. Only when you purchase something with the points does any timer come into effect.
     
  23. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Ok, that's not too bad, though I would argue that a longer timer than 24 hours would still be warranted.

    I was worried you'd have to fight in Covetous, then get a crafting item more or less randomly, then have to use it within 24 hours. Thus in essence making many people have to rush right out from a massive fight.....To craft or resource gather.

    -Galen's player
     
  24. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    nope. You select the item you want in similar fashion to spending clean up points, you buy exactly what you want, when you want it. RNG not involved.
    You don't even have to be a great pvmer if you've patience to wait for what you want. I've been deliberately using a wimpy char. She can cast evs and hide basically, there's always been someone else in the dungeon and she's never stayed past the 7th wave. I've only been in there 3 times so far and I have 20 reward points.
     
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  25. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Don't forget with regard to the smelting talismans that another source of raw, high-end ore are the greater earth elementals in Shame.
     
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  26. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    Can rewards be physically handed over to another char. Eg. PVMer hands over talisman to lumberjack?
     
  27. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Yes. You can even swap the talismans between characters while they still have time/charges on them; however, that won't be possible if a talisman is generated by the system with the "Owned By No One" property and therefore is only usable by the first character to actually equip it.
     
  28. T-Hunt

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    Why dont they just remove the 24 hour time on ore and wood map or taly..
    Since they have charges anyways and are used up..
    Having a timer makes no sense whats so ever ..on crafters items.

    As for void run, whe try to keep feilds up to keep monsters away or traped in there area to kill..
    But after wave 30 they start getting to the pool unless others can cast feild..

    They seem to move from end to end after you clear them..so people are running back and forth alot..
    Im not sure if the mobs upstairs from Cora are ment for anything other then a run by to her..

    Do they also count as a small mini event like renowneds in Abyss im wondering?
     
  29. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    This is correct,you can spend the points After you farm the resources so you can get full use of your coldrons or talismans.
    unless of course they get the urge to add decay to these accumulated covetous points =p
     
  30. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Yes I know, that was my complaint. You basically have to get them for yourself, you can't get them from or for others. I mean I guess you could just hoard up points, tell people you will buy them items for x gold then buy it for them on the spot, making the item timers just an annoyance you have to work around. I just don't see the point of it.
     
  31. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    No I chose to complain:

    The real complaint I've always had with mining is that there really isnt much of a use for bulk resources. I think the devs realized this when ML came out. They added new types of wood and gave them some nice mods compared to metal. But it wasn't quite enough to build an expansion on so they threw in heartwood quests and community collections to create artificial demand. I have always thought of this as a huge mistake.

    Before ML I never saw scriptors at high end ore locations. They were always scripting shadow ore. I wont go into the math or method, but it was possible to make millions/day doing this. But there were plenty of shadow ore locations to go around so I didnt care. After ML, high end ore and wood was given high point values for turn in and all of the sudden I am fighting scripters for my precious few valorite/frostwood locations. I cant imagine how many billions per month was poured into each shard from scripting frostwood and valorite.

    In the beginning, mining was they they way I discovered the world. Always looking to improve my mining books, I would be delighted to strike a double agapite location or mark a spot where I could mine three shadow ore nodes. I spent years building and improving my collection of books to give me the best yield in the least amount of time. Of course it isnt the most exicting way to pass the time. From time to time my eye would wander. I would take a look around the area or at the mini map. If I saw something interesting I would take a break and check it out.

    As for relaxing, I don't know if I can quite explain this correctly. I was a programmer and am now a data services engineer focusing on storage area network infrastrucure. I spend most of my day thinking. Some days it was damn relaxing just to come home, pop open a beer, log in in and recall around thumping my last object, last target macros for a few hours. It was a nice escape not to have to think.

    We are far from that now and I dont think we'll ever get back. Now I must collect and lug around prospecting tools and garg pic axes (and monitor use). I must be a mage to mark runes. I must be geared up to fight ore elemental spawn. I must squint at my pack to find and dispose of small pieces of blackrock I must analyze each and every swing of the pic axe to extrapolate a maximum yield. There is no more exploring necesary. No need to discover a rare resource out in the middle of no where, because it wont last the day.

    We added tools to "improve" the process. We added in pvm methods to obtain resources. We added artificial demand to resources. In the end, the yield is far more work for far less to the honest miner/chopper. Yes it was boring and safe before. No it isnt any fun now.

    That is the direction we are headed. All my mining books have been re purposed. I dont think Id ever spend the time to rebuild them even if we did turn rng resources off. I have for the most part moved on to other things. My mining is reduced now to shadow ore. It has good use for BODs and the agapite elixers easy to get. So I also mine shadow to turn to agaipite and dump that into clean up brit for a decent amout of points.

    Apologies for the rant. Im alomost over it :)
     
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  32. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    Everytime some ill-incentivized activity is added to the game, someone says this, and then a couple months later nobody is doing it. I haven't even heard of anyone doing a pirate hunt on Atlantic in... I don't know how long. I mean someone must have done some, I don't talk to everyone on the shard, but the activity apparently has a much lower profile than champs, or tmaps, or even obsolete stuff like Doom.

    The Void Pool should have enough going for it to allow for a certain level of activity, but 95% of everyone is going to be off trying to get that FC2 shield.
     
  33. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    The "worthless" ephemeral items will definately be useful and used on Siege...
     
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  34. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Means your work won't be showing up on a website somewhere. Means if other people are involved, it'll be face to face, in game.
    I kinda like it... forcing people to be together and interact, but not a forced playstyle. Some might even make a few new friends this way.
     
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  35. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I mean... can't that happen in just selling? I have bought and sold stuff personally to people all the time. I don't see how this mechanic would promote people cooperating. It would just make people get on their alt and go do the dungeon for an item for their crafter.
     
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  36. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    as long as it makes people go. What I was trying to say was it doesn't seem like we forced thru a cattle shute, certainly not forced to play in Cove, they're just offering huge incentives to do so. I have Hundreds of Shame crystals, doubt I'll ever use them, and I may not spend all my Cove points either, but I know later, should i happen across a struggling noob like I was once, that I can give them something, things that could make a difference, maybe just for a day, but it might be all the jump start they need. If I had 500 of anything back then, I felt rich. I could offer items to friends. It gets the people in game, the more that happens, the fuller shards become...
     
  37. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    But mommy, getting the goodies IS the fun part....oh and the whole dying and fighting stuff part. Which is all to get to the goodies.....hehe...kinda reminds me of women.
     
  38. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    If you ask me its even MORE of a cattle chute. If you want those items you basically have to get them yourself, or find someone to go get them for you. Unlike all other items if you want them you can buy them from someone who WANTED to do the spawn. As for giving people stuff you have... again removing the timers on these items would make that easier.

    The timers are not a good idea.
     
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  39. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    Reading the threads here, i thought that the points you get go towards rewards but it's not that simple. You can get 1200 points for killing monsters but what counts is the points you receive at the end. Those points seem to be based more on how many waves you complete. At the end, i got 2500 points but only 8 for reaching wave 9. Those 8 points were what i could spend...After doing a couple more waves i ended up with 40 points. Still not enough to buy anything. It's very easy to solo a couple of rounds but the real rewards will come from reaching high waves. I don't really see what purpose the other points serve other than bragging rights.

    Just wanted to clear that up in case anyone was wondering
     
  40. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Regarding the timered crafting items.

    I just had a very amusing memory.

    Years ago I proposed that Peerless Keys should be non-timered; I likened my proposal to the Gold Skulls in Doom, wherein a mini-economy could be created consisting of people who had interest in the Keys but not the Peerless, and vice versa, trading and buying from one another.

    The response from the community, if memory served, was that I was a stupid Trammie who should get some friends.

    -Galen's player
     
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  41. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I've been trying to figure out the formula, but it hasn't clicked yet. Turn-in points are definitely separate from personal score, though.

    From what I've tested, you need to get to at least Wave 3 in order to get 1 point, whereas Wave 2 and prior yields 0 points (it's fairly hard to lose prior to Wave 2). The highest wave I experienced--which I recorded--was 42 Waves, which yielded 176 points. Points per wave seem to increase; while the per rate of Wave 3 is 0.33 points, the per rate of Wave 42 is 4.19 points.
     
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  42. Mesanna

    Mesanna UO Producer | Dark OverLady
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    No the points you get in the dungeon do not decay.
     
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  43. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    One thing i did notice was stragglers. There seems to be monsters that stick around after the battle has ended. This happened twice last night...They just hang around the void pool until someone kills them and they can be a pain sometimes you aren't expecting a fight. Would really suck if someone casts noble sacrifice and here comes mr demon casting on you and the freshly rezzed
     
  44. Ron Silverbeard

    Ron Silverbeard Certifiable
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    Holy Makarele Batman! You mean you get Killpoints for World Ranking purposes (maybe you get something if you be Top 100 every month, who knows?) BUT you realy have to work the waves to get the REAL points to turn in for this "hot or not" items?

    Dang...i see sleepless nights and days coming up - i need to be Top 100 something.. hehe

    ARGGGHHHHHHH!!!!
     
  45. Ron Silverbeard

    Ron Silverbeard Certifiable
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    Txs Boss! Mesanna quoted me! Yeah!! *Jumps around* wehhhaaaa!
     
  46. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    Do arties drop while doing the void pool, and are they ephemeral or normal?
     
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  47. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    I agree!
     
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  48. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    This is the big question of the publish. And what does Cora drop?
     
  49. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    You and everyone else near by... :pie:
     
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  50. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
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    It seems like Cora is dropping the arties that you can point buy but without the emphemeral property.