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Vote on a Fix for Ghost Cams at Champion Spawns. Please Vote

Discussion in 'UHall' started by rolan69vw, Feb 13, 2008.

  1. rolan69vw

    rolan69vw Guest

    To the honest UO Player:
    As many of us know, Ghost Cams have been used by some guilds to unfairly watch Champion Spawns for years now. The other day I learned how Ghost Cams work and I was shocked and disappointed.

    Let me explain how Ghost Cams work. First they use three dummy accounts for a grand total of 18 available players. These accounts have nothing on them but six characters that are untrained; they start them with 50 on hiding skill so they can hide at Champ Spawns. They hide and log out each character on the accounts near the Alter on a Spawn area. Here comes the illegal part. They basically use two programs that work together. The first of these programs logs in each character at a time and reports to the other program, telling the other program, if the spawn is popped, what type of a spawn it is, and how many red and white skulls there are. The programs logs in on one account, logs a character, reports, and logs out, then logs in on another account, logs a character on another spawn, reports, and logs out, and so on until it has logged on all 18 character and reported on all the spawn areas.

    If you do the math, every 5 minutes, the program is reporting on three Spawns so, if there are 18 Champion Spawns in Feluca (I am not sure how many they are, but something around that), every 30 minutes each of the Spawns will be reported on. The other program is used by all the Guild members to read the reports on the spawn, so basically, every guild member running the second program knows what is going on at every Champ Spawn. These programs run unattended and double client which we all know is illegal and unfair for us honest UO players.

    How I know all this? Well, we managed to infiltrate the guild that runs all the Ghosts Cams in our shard. You can imagine we have not tried to run a spawn since we learned how it works.

    The fix: I had a very simple and non drastic idea to get rid of Ghost Cams. I e-mailed Jeremy about it last week but I have gotten no answer so I wanted to share it with you guys and get some feedback from the players themselves. Ok here we go.

    If EA made it so that if you timed out at a champion spawn you would be redirected to the nearest town on your next login, just as you cannot recall into T2A, or any Champ Spawn for that matter, the Ghost Cam programs would be destroyed. This would allow for five minutes to log back in if you had actually crashed (the time out time) and it would also help if you had crashed because if you had had problems and could not log back in you would be redirected to the nearest town on your next login so you could res up and get back on your feet. I believe it is a great and simple idea and I can’t see why EA would not try to implement it. The only thing I could think of is that EA would not like to lose that extra income that comes from those three dummy accounts per shard and I would like to think EA is not that desperate.

    So that’s it guys, sorry its such a long thread but I tried to be as short as possible, just had a lot to say. PLEASE vote and post any suggestions on the idea. Thanks a lot and Happy Valentines to you all.

    Best of wishes, [​IMG]

    Rolan
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Plan would fizzle... heres why.
    Only takes ghost cam a second to check the alter and see how many candles there are, in that time the account can log on, check the spawn and time out before being kicked into a town.
     
  3. rolan69vw

    rolan69vw Guest

    Well it would work once. but on next login it would be redirected to town, and they would have to place the Character again, and a gain, and again. what they would not do, so it would work. these programs run unatended 24/7. I am sure no one will be placing a character at a champ spawn every 30 minutes. (you might aswell just go check them personaly, which is perfectly legal) thats why it would work. Thansk for the input tho.

    Rolan
     
  4. Lord Mike

    Lord Mike Guest

    We've been asking for a fix for about 6 years. Goodluck.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Right, so just make it so you can't log out at a champ spawn, and if so then redirected into town. Maybe put in a 2 minute delay incase of client errors or so on..... I see what you are saying [​IMG]
     
  6. There are also cams that use hidden, live stealthers, not just dead ones.

    A fix that covers both types of cams yet changes as little as possible in the existing system is a challenge. I do hope they come up with one that they like, even if it's just vigorous, aggressive enforcement of their existing TOS (which does ban this type of activity, it's all automated and therefore uses unauthorized 3rd party programs).
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    TY I always wondered how this works.
     
  8. rolan69vw

    rolan69vw Guest

    Exactly My point! if they make it that you cant login at champ spawns, it doesnt matter if the cam is dead or alive and hidden. it will be redirect you to the nearest tow at loggin. An easy and non radical fix. If we unite aginst this we might make a difference. EA needs to hear us! Thanks for the post.

    Rolan
     
  9. Another thing to add to it, ban free accounts from being in Fel. Just like being young prevents you from going to Fel.
     
  10. <blockquote><hr>

    Exactly My point! if they make it that you cant login at champ spawns, it doesnt matter if the cam is dead or alive and hidden. it will be redirect you to the nearest tow at loggin. An easy and non radical fix. If we unite aginst this we might make a difference. EA needs to hear us! Thanks for the post.

    Rolan

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Funny... last month we could not change a thing... this month "united we stand"...

    Funny!
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    We've been asking for a fix for about 6 years. Goodluck.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Truth. I've known how these work for a long time. I know a guy who made the programs that do this. He charged ridiculous amounts to big time guilds to allow them to use these programs. They've never been fixed, and they never will be. They don't care about PVP. Everyone thinks because they burned a few dupers houses they're automatically going to fix all problems. While I wish they would, they'll continue to make stupid unneeded fixes for PVM and continue to ignore their PVP playerbase.
     
  12. Anne

    Anne Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    This should have been done a long long time ago and it's very much past due.

    I don't care what the fix is ... just give us a fix
     
  13. <blockquote><hr>

    We've been asking for a fix for about 6 years. Goodluck.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's disgusting that EA would let this go on for 6 years.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    While I wish they would, they'll continue to make stupid unneeded fixes for PVM and continue to ignore their PVP playerbase.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Didn´t they release a big PVP publish not that long ago?
    I don´t PVP myself so I don´t know if it was a good or bad one but the impression I´ve got is that it was a good one...

    And yes, I would also like to see this ghost caming issue being solved once and for all as I understand how frustrating it must be for smaller guilds to almost never be able to finish off a spawn without a larger guild raiding them because they use shady tactics...
     
  15. rolan69vw

    rolan69vw Guest

    Yeap. This is what i mean. the problem is not in raiding. I have nothing against it. The problem is the use of illegal tactics to automate the whatching over the spanws. if you want to raid, at least make it so that you have to check the spawns yourself, not have a program tell you when and where to raid. NOT FAIR.

    Thank you all for the responses. lets see if we can make a point here!

    Rolan
     
  16. The gross thing is that (at least on Siege) they use free trial accounts. One solution for this would be to make it so an account couldn't go to certain areas (champ spawns, most dungeons, event areas) until the account was PAID for.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Forget it. A fix has been asked for years and EA don't give a damn.
     
  18. indeed, my point exactly, gwen beat me to it, and im sure they dont pay for accounts on other shards if they are that smart, they use free trials accounts, of course on siege its a bit of a pain since they have to like 18 accounts, so on a normal shard 3 is nothing.
     
  19. rolan69vw

    rolan69vw Guest

    With the solution I propose, Ghost Cams will become useless regardless of if the account is paid for or free. So it would resolve the problem. Although, I believe your idea is a good addition and should be considered. Thanks for the input.

    I see a lot of negativism on this topic, apparently a fix for this is long due! I might be wasting my time, but I have to give it a try. If nothing is done about this soon EA is loosing a customer who has paid for his accounts for 10 years now. Bcs if nothing is done about this it is obvious someone who benefits from this program has some influence on the Dev team, and if this is so, I am not wasting more time nor money on UO. I truly feel I have to give it a try!

    Thanks

    Rolan
     
  20. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend GoT

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    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Exactly My point! if they make it that you cant login at champ spawns, it doesnt matter if the cam is dead or alive and hidden. it will be redirect you to the nearest tow at loggin. An easy and non radical fix. If we unite aginst this we might make a difference. EA needs to hear us! Thanks for the post.

    Rolan

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Funny... last month we could not change a thing... this month "united we stand"...

    Funny!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Funny how last month you were a brand new player, and this month you're a Veteran and also a part of "We"..heheh
     
  21. rolan69vw

    rolan69vw Guest

    Whenever I see one of these ghosts i report them. But it dont matter if they get banned, they just make a new account and place em again till the new ac**** gets banned, and so on. I keep seeing th same names i have been reporting for months. so i guess they havnt even been baned. Why woudl EA not pay attention to this??????????????

    Rolan
     
  22. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

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    Well with the method he is talking about, the character has to log totally out of the game for the other slots to check their spawns. When the first character logs back in; he'd log back in at a town.

    The only way to by pass that would to be have 18 trail accounts...
     
  23. Olahorand

    Olahorand Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    The same should also apply to Dungeons.
    If dead and no corpse any more, at one of the subsequent logins ghosts should be ejected.
    *Salute*
    Olahorand
     
  24. rolan69vw

    rolan69vw Guest

    Could we get a commento from Devs on this?
     
  25. nineninefour

    nineninefour Guest

    Just the way I see it:

    The PvP, raids, and such ARE the best part of the spawns. Nothing as gratifying as killing the spawn, fighting off a raid, fighting the champ, defending against another raid, killing some reds, killing the champ, getting your scrolls, losing your scrolls, and getting them back again. And nothing as inspiring or motivating than popping one and getting your ass beat away from it.

    Frankly, the ghost cams instigate active and aggressive PvP, constantly, no matter how nefarious the means. I see them as a good thing.

    If you're (anyone, that is) so scared of PvP, don't champ in Felucca.
     
  26. rolan69vw

    rolan69vw Guest

    Raids are not the issue. I myself am an active PvPer and last couple of months I only play the game to PvP, nothing else. However, It is not fair, nor legal, to run 3rd party programs that report on the spanws. If you enjoy raiding and PvPing as much, just have people on your guild periodically check spawns. Or do it yourself. but having automated methods of reporting on spawns is highly unfair, specially for those newer and weaker guilds who might try to ocasionaly run a spawn and find themselves being raided every single time. If they knew how Spy Cams work, they would never even try to do a spawn. Again, the practice is unfair and I belive it to be even worse than unatended macroing and duping, because it directly works in detriment of the playing experience of the honest UO player.

    Rolan
     
  27. nineninefour

    nineninefour Guest

    Yeah, I see where you're coming from.
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    the stealth cams don't log out in the dungeon, or don't have to.

    they use a path to the candles, count then and stealth back out.

    You could even recall to your house until its time to check again.

    At least if this is the case, you have a chance of dropping poison fields to expose them or something
     
  29. Why not forbid ghosts from being anywhere near the champ spawns? If you die in a battle, you are immediately teleported to set points away from the dungeon. Those already dead trying to enter shouldn't be permitted in the area.

    If you look at it, the only benefit of allowing ghosts in the champ spawn would be to loot their corpses...but with insurance that's pointless.
     
  30. Perhaps the best fix for script cams is a logging system that logs when people log in and time out and watches for repetition. It's pretty obvious you have a cam network when 7 characters on the same account are strategically placed at champ spawns and repeatedly logged &amp; timed out. As long as the devs declare camming illegal first there's no issue.

    One way or another, the ability to take no risk to scout all spawns simultaneously and then swarm any spawns you happen to find is a symptom of a broken system.

    Edit:
    Naaah... The only fix for the problem is to have timed out characters booted from champ spawn areas before any spawn-related data is sent to their client.
     
  31. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I still vote for the classic "die and you get kicked out for 30 minutes; ghosts cannot enter T2A/Dungeons" plan that.. y'know.. actually WORKED when we had it.
     
  32. AncientGeek

    AncientGeek Guest

    Here's the thing, history lesson included: there are several good ideas that have been brought up and ignored for several years now.

    There's also been one awful, pointless idea advanced by the now departed Mr. Tact. When first advanced in uhall, there were pages and pages of skeptical players detailing why it was useless. After being moved to the heavily moderated developer corner (for presumably more favorable responses), pages and ages of feedback came back saying it didn't work and was useless. Undeterred by trivial things such as effectiveness, usefulness, and player feedback, he dumped resources into a useless "fix" that no one wanted and has never worked--aka the exorcism spell. Every time the issue came back up again for the next year or two he pronounced the issue solved despite enormous evidence to the contrary.

    Perhaps now with Mr. Tact gone the issue can be discussed again and properly addressed. There are a number of very good solutions out there.