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VvV and FORGED PARDONS : time to take them out of the game or change them into something else ?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Oct 1, 2014.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Since the release of VvV I wonder if there truly is any need for forged pardons any longer in the game....

    I mean, now in Felucca it is way easy to turn orange and thus, be freely attackable so, why would anyone need Forged Pardons any longer ?

    Perhaps they should be changed into some other type of item ?

    How about, for example, a Feluccan "safe-conduct" that has variable lasting times, issued by the Lord of the Realm to Sosarians adventuring in Felucca ?

    Such a safe-conduct would make them, for the time that the deed is valid, not orange to other players UNLESS they attack anyone. In such case the deed would vanish from backpack and they would become orange and thus attackable....

    Perhaps, to add some spice and give to thieves something, the safe-conduct deed could be blessed BUT stealable by thieves when in Felucca.

    When the deed is stolen, of course, the holder would be dropped out of safe-conduct status (they could no longer have a deed to show to demonstrate their safe-conduct special status...) and thus could turn orange and thus freely attackable.

    Of course, reds could still attack freely anyone even if they were holding a safe-conduct deed..... and blues as well only, they would then suffer the consequences of their criminal act....
     
    #1 popps, Oct 1, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2014
  2. Ru TnT

    Ru TnT Seasoned Veteran
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    So we'd have a bunch of yellows running around in fel?
     
  3. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Yes there is still a need and demand for forged pardons.
     
    King Greg, Cupid, Merlin and 4 others like this.
  4. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Not sure I see it, though....

    If most players in Felucca will now show up as orange (targetable), who would need Forged Pardons any longer ??

    The existing ones around will be more than plenty to suffice for the occasional need which now will be much much scarcer because of VvV ...
     
  5. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    There are still a fair few players not signed up to VvV. Its also still early days at the moment. For the first week there was hardly anyone fighting at Yew gate due to VvV being the new kid on the block. Slowly i'm seeing more and more people back gate fighting. Lets see how it pans out in the long term.
     
  6. Risso

    Risso Babbling Loonie
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  7. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    No need to do anything with forged pardons. They will still have a limited use and even if they did not they could just sit and collect dust. So what.
    That is the nature of the game.
    No need to use them as an excuse for bizarre new game mechanics
     
  8. funkymonkey

    funkymonkey Lore Keeper
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    People still raid champs and take counts so yer still needed, royal pardons are nice but for sake of what 2 mil vs grinding silver points ill take a forged pardon.
    If you wanna pick on stuff how about picking on the rubbish artis in doom or any other old grind with horrid artis
     
  9. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    No. Play in fel, or don't. Everyone can make that choice for themselves. Cake, having or eating, you pick.
     
  10. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Just read the last part of the OP lol.
    Encourage people to come to felucca to be victimized and pked by thieves?
    I play and pvp in felucca and think that's the worst idea I have heard in years.
    Most pvpers don't want to abuse new or defenseless players
     
  11. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    If, by chance, any of my red's run upon a person while watching the lands in Fel I'll kill them with pleasure, forged pardons hold value to those who decided that they would rather not play under that color. I fail to see that a person who has above 15 long term counts has not decided that char is on the account to freely kill when it is possible and I fail to see anyone holding more than 4 counts on a blue(or else you are red...) so for that last person a pardon holds a great value. You might join VvV to get a pardon but I doubt it.
     
  12. SlobberKnocker

    SlobberKnocker Slightly Crazed

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    i dont remember but does popps even pvp?
     
  13. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    things change with publishes. there will still be people who want pardons. the publish changes decreased value of loot greatly, so its really not to big a deal that pardons might end up also decreasing in value by 75% or so.
     
  14. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    The pardons are for people who have 1-2 counts till blue..how many people have actually used 30-40 pardons to go blue..I always say I'm going to use one and stay blue, but next thing you know I have 40 counts so I stay red..some of my characters haven't seen tram for a loooooong time. I can't wait to grief everyone!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I guess, summing up comments so far, that Forged Pardons will not become useless 100% but most likely they will become much, but very much less usefull then what they have been prior to the introduction of VvV....

    Considering their spawn rate, soon there will be so many of them around that they will go for a dime a dozen which, to me, means they will be pretty much a junk item..... how many points they give for the Clean Up ?
     
    Cupid likes this.
  16. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    How do you figure man? All it is doing is increasing the sales of them..a royal forged pardon is 10k points..the time needed to get that many points is worth far more than the 1-2m the regular pardons cost..nevermind the fact that again anybody who wishes to go blue that has 10-20 counts is generally not buying that many pardons, they are macroing a new character in 2-3 days..but if you want I'll gladly purchase your "useless" pardons you have stockpiled for pennies on the dollar...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    You must have missed the debate on pardons the very day they released the list of items.

    It can be summed up by simply realizing that the forged royal pardons are the most expensive items and wipe ALL counts. Meaning that it would only really be useful for people with a lot of counts, to the point where buying a stack of forged pardons still wouldn't do it. If you need to remove a small handful of counts, it would likely be a huge waste of points or money to buy/use a forged royal pardon.

    If anything, this publish will increase the sales of the smaller forged pardons because we will now have characters who were once perma-red who may need to use a few of them on and off.
     
    #17 Viper09, Oct 1, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2014
  18. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    the forged pardon has nothing to do with it.

    popps is correct that by the nature of the new system there will be less counts overall. how much it will effect pardon demand im not really sure.
     
  19. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I do not get it.

    Royal Forged Pardons would make even less usefull the regular forged pardons, not more needed....

    At least, before "Royal" forged pardons even existed, a wealthy red could consider buying a bunch of them to delete all murder counts but now ?
    Most likely they will get a royal one and who cares about the regular ones.....

    The occasional need for a forged pardon ?

    With VvV which will make others much more likely to be attackable in Felucca, there will be way less murder counts and thus, need for regular forged pardons.

    I even moreso think that regular forged pardons have become useless and an obsolete item.....
    The game will keep to spawn them but VvV and "Royal" forged pardons will make them way, but way less needed then before meaning, that the offer will far be larger then the demand for them....
     
  20. popps

    popps Always Present
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    My logic, is that the new system (VvV) will indeed reduce drastically the number of murder counts. On top of that, "Royal" forged pardons will further reduce the need for regular forged pardons.

    Yet, regular forged pardons will keep spawning and thus build up in the world.

    The result of these combined dynamics ?

    A way, but way much reduced demand o regular foeged pardons with a continuously increasing offer piling up....

    And what would equal this to ? Basically worthless regular forged pardons which hardly anyone wants or needs.... a plunge in their gold value.

    That is why I was suggesting to make changes to them. Changes where made to their need in the game (VvV and Royals), perhaps also changes are needed for them to re-balance the changed situation ?

    I was suggesting changing them into a "safe-conduct" deed, other ideas are certainly welcome.....

    For example, another possibility could be (but only temporary since when no one will any longer have murder counts noone will need them, period...) to just get rid of regular forged pardons and make them all "royals", also the ones spawning in treasure chests...

    At least, treasure hunters could at least still sell them because "royals" will still be wanted for a while, that is, until there is still players with murder counts....

    Of course, when all players will have turned blue thanking to "royals", also these will cease to have a market and be interesting to players....

    "Safe-conduct" deeds, instead, will always have buyers......
     
    #20 popps, Oct 2, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2014
  21. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    There may indeed be less counts after a while, leading to only counts either being few or a lot (depending on whether or not someone actually wants to wipe their counts). So answer me this, popps. Why should I waste a lot of points on the forged royal pardon to remove a few counts to get blue again when a few normal forged pardons would suffice? If counts are so few, it would seem a waste of points or money to use a forged royal pardon to remove a small amount of counts...
     
    #21 Viper09, Oct 2, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2014
  22. popps

    popps Always Present
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    In this transition period where we still have reds (or blues) out there with a handfull of murder counts remaining from the old system you might be right, but I am worried in the long term now that we have VvV which will basically allow to kill without much fear of getting any longer a murder count....

    For the time being, and untill the current reds or blues have erased their remaining few counts the regular forged pardons will still have a market but after this has been settled and VvV takes off, the occasional blue getting a murder count out of VvV will not be enough, it is my concern, to sustain a regular and steady market for regular forged pardons as it was....

    Hence, I think something should be done with them to avoid hurting further more Treasure Hunters.

    I even thought about allowing players to "combine" regular forged pardons into a "Royal" forged pardon (that is, an X number of regular forged pardons would create a "Royal" forged pardon) but while initially this will keep up the desire for regular forged pardons, after all reds have turned blue, also this will fade away and even "Royal" forged pardons become unwanted and useless....

    The real problem, IMHO, is the fact that VvV just does away with murder counts. That's what is killing the need for regular forged pardons now, and soon will also kill the need for "Royal" forged pardons once all reds will have cleansed up their counts.

    That's why I am convinced that the only way to go, is changing regular forged pardons into something else, something which players may want and that the game might always have demand for. Otherwise, this will be another loss for Treasure Hunters who had from forged pardons a decent income.....
     
  23. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    because youve bought all the other rewards and have nothing left to spend points on, and royal pardons are only worth 5 mil or so couple months down the line.
     
  24. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Well, true there, lol. If one has a ton of points and nothing to spend it on :p
     
  25. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
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    In my opinion forged pardons were a mistake to add to UO in the first place and destroyed a very good game system by removing the accountability. It would have been better if instead they had been an assassination contract that allowed you to kill 1 person within a time limit without getting a murder count. You used to have to make choices, red or blue. Being able to murder as many as you want and wipe the slate clean at any time just ruined the reputation system.
     
    transcendent likes this.
  26. Stille

    Stille Visitor

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    Sorry for the necro but ive recently returned to uo and forged pardons are the worst thing in uo, there is zero accountability now. Ive seen someone go red 3 different times during one spawn The way i see it is if you dont want to be red then dont attack blues. Thats been the way uo was for years. At the very leaset there needs to be a timer like one per wk and one royal pardon per char lifetime.
     
  27. PaithanTheElf

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    The royal forged pardon wiped my 5000+ counts.
     
  28. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Personally I say do away with Red, just leave them blue and put a red bracketed [Murderer] at the end of their name. That coding is already in game due to the Huntsman Challenge. All they would have to do is a little coding to allow murder counts to populate the message after the name. You do away with a few different problems then. Folks can stay "blue" and enjoy the buffs that blues have access too, and you still inform the other players on the playstyle of the murderer.

    *puts on anti-flame suit*
     
  29. MeTheGreat

    MeTheGreat Seasoned Veteran
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    off topic and probably a dumb idea; but what about a corrupted pardon that lets a red go to tram (while still being red)?

    still would be trammel ruleset, but would allow reds to use town bonuses or hit content/events that have no fel counterpart.
     
  30. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    I say good idea personally.. but with a caveat... make Luna bank a place to where reds can actually whoop up on folks.... Yeah, I hate Luna ;)
     
  31. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Actually what I would prefer is if they only offered the pardons for one count from the T-Maps.. but only FEL T-Maps...

    If they sold Royal Pardons at the store only.

    If they made the same buff system somehow a part of VvV. So Reds would have no reason to go blue in the first place.

    That's my opinion.



    And my thoughts have always been if there was more of a reason to fight in Fel... and such maybe more folk would enjoy it. If there were rewards for being a Red Slayer. Reds wear counts like a badge.... but blues get ? Justice ? which honestly not really a reward and since the system is so corrupt there really isn't a way to reward you because people make and kill their own red all the time..... and it's not really hard to make a red. Which is quite often what was wrong with the old Bounty System and why they can't bring something like that back. Even VvV has exploitable parts. So it's really hard.
     
  32. Lord Arm

    Lord Arm Seasoned Veteran

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    SO SIMPLE, MAKE FORGED PARDENS A ONE TIME USE

    if they made rewards for reds, it would just get exploited, just like the ones we have now. haven't we learned yet
    do we really need vvv?
     
    #32 Lord Arm, Apr 19, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
  33. dukarlo

    dukarlo Seasoned Veteran
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    I think pardons should not be useable while blue and should take counts down to no less than 4 or 5. I personally would rather that number be 5.The reputation system is basicly irrelevant right now. It annoys me to no end that people use pardons to take counts on their blues and within the time it takes to recall to the bank are blue again. Taking counts on reds is one thing. You know the character is red so you expect to be attacked. Make the fel towns offer city buffs to reds. Maybe make them all available somehow in Bucs Den. These things would even the playing field and end all the ping ponging nonsense.