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(Question) VvV Artifacts back on Siege

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by -Hey Arnold-, May 21, 2015.

  1. -Hey Arnold-

    -Hey Arnold- Seasoned Veteran

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    Any chance VvV artifacts will be added back to siege..Im not sure why they where removed in the first place seeing as there use to be faction artifacts on siege. Most of the people ive talked to are mad that they were not added Ive only heard complaints from a few people on siege that dont even pvp that they are over powered and dont fit in with the siege rule set...Which i could not disagree more. Siege is the only server where it would be worth doing the towns and pvp battles yet there are no artifacts so nothing to buy other then banners. If people are worried that they would be to easy to get the cost for them could be increased and there could be a turn in for the VvV artifacts which would give VvV players points or non VvV players they could be used as clean up points or somthing along those lines so they are not completely useless to non VvV players when looted. As much as i like siege its very hard to get people to play here mainly because there are no VvV items cant make the same templates and since the population is so low its very hard to find stuff...I know of at least 10 people in my guild who would play on siege if there were VvV items..Im just not sure why they where removed it would greatly increase the siege population.
     
    #1 -Hey Arnold-, May 21, 2015
    Last edited: May 21, 2015
  2. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    They never was here and should not be here as they will make imbalance between VvV ers and non VvV'ers

    What we need is update to the artifacts, that spawn on monsters and increase of spawn of imbuing resources from monsters and mining, special gems are a problem.

    1. My idea is, let the VvV artifacts spawn in a non VvV version on monsters, that way, all can use them and get them.
    1a. Make them craftable and useable for all, let VvV pay with silver, if they buy from npc, so 1 silver = 5 gp (if we get rid of 3xprices, 1 silver = 2 gp), then they would have something to trade with as gems are expensive.
    2. Remove 3 x npc vendor prices
    3. Lower Vendor fee for PC vendors and the New Mag vendors to 1%
    4. Increase drop of resources from spawn 2x or maybe even 3x
    5.Increase drop of resourses and gems from gathering 2-3x, that be mining, lumbering, sheeps, animals and plants

    That will make cheaper items on vendors and make it easier to replace lost gear.

    If we just add the VvV artifacts we will split the community, we tryed that with the faction artifacts before they was nerfed.
    All blue and red non faction players gave up trying to PvP. They had so much disadvantage in a fight and if they won, they could not use the stuff on the body. Also Faction players did not need the crafters and farmers.

    I want more players on Siege too but I want the community to depend of each others.
     
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  3. Lore Denin (GL)

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    I agree with Freja the only item I would change is the above. Players buy the recipe to create the artifact instead of the artifact itself from the silver vendor. Then a crafter with the matching skill (who does not have to be VvV) can craft in an active VvV town at the designated location (metal armor at forge, tailored items at tailor shop). The item takes 5 minutes to produce. Once complete the artifact can be sold, traded, etc to anyone VvV.

    Players not in VvV can buy recipes for items from VvV players or join VvV themselves to get the silver.

    Ex. So Arnold wants a crysalline ring, buys recipe and asked a crafter like Tina Tink to craft it for him. She agrees but for 10k. Arnold goes to town with Tina, guards her at the tinker shop so no one interrupts the process (kills her in the 5 min crafting time). Some people may raid, a thief may wait until she is done and try and swipe it, etc....

    . Allows VvV players to make gold by selling to craftspeople, allows crafts people to make and sell valuable artifacts and creates and interesting pvp aspect to crafting.

    -Lore
     
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  4. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I have hear that idea before and some was tryed for faction. It won't work as the crafter easy get killed and lose alot of values. It's wrong to force crafters to risk to die, when crafting.

    That part I can accept, that all guild will have a few VvV'ers who can get the recipes for the crafters but only if it works like other recipes, once learned, you do not need a new recipe for that item.

    It may take more than him to guard her and mostly, he will just logon his own crafter and craft the item. If Tina die with the resources in her back, she will not only lose a deal but also her resources.

    That part I agree with but don't force the crafters to go orange and get looted, that won't work.
     
  5. Lore Denin (GL)

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    Defintiely don't want to force crafters into a situation where they must carry many expensive items to craft something in a dangerous town - basically just a GM made item that matches the recipe which then applies the magical properties to it. High success rate at high skill levels.

    In the example gm ring, and recipe to make Crystalline ring.... the cost coming from the silver purchase already so no need to get additional expensive items.... What they would lose is the recipe and gm made item which would be lootable if process is interrupted. Also all VvV artifacts are antique so having a real artifact will always be a better permanent solution assuming its siege blessed.


    -Lore
     
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  6. Critical Gaming

    Critical Gaming Lore Master
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    I agree with Arnold. As far as "imbalance between VvV and non-VvV" - the non VvV aren't orange and aren't perma-flagged, so there's their perk.

    Crafters will still be needed, and farmers will still be needed, as there's literally the rest of the suit that needs to be accounted for.

    I, among others, just think its *really* stupid to have a PvP system where you farm for deco. Like, honestly, from an outside perspective, you think "what in the heck were they thinking when they did this?"

    The problem with Denin and Freja's arguments are that this kind of work will never, EVER get put into siege. They may or may not be good ideas, but the "easy" way to satisfy the potential playerbase (believe it or not, people really want to play here!) is to throw in the VvV artifacts at a higher cost, just as they did with faction artfacts. We all know that if anything is going to be done, it's that.

    OH, and as far as faction artifacts - when they were available for use, there was a period where a lot of people PvP'd again! I remember because I was one of them.

    Anyways, my 2gp.
     
  7. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    There are plenty of shards that have vending machine artifacts.
     
  8. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    No it's not as the VvV'er are a PK, who are attacking them. He may be red or he maybe staying blue with forged pardons.
    Never say never, the Devs are watching Siege as they had seen, Siege in many ways works better than prodo shards.
     
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  9. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Lore Master

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    I'm glad we don't have them even though I would benefit from better gear myself. Those are artifacts for a reason. Here, they should be difficult to acquire. By not having them as, in Kelmo's phrasing, vendor machine items, people generally have to work together to get them. Want a crimmy? Grab a friend or two and do some Mel runs. Don't like peerless, trade for one in GC or forum (like the recent stat scroll for tangle discussion). Not having them as VvV artifacts helps encourage trade and interaction. The primary people I see benefiting from adding VvV arties here are those who can't find a trade because of scamming reputation or can't find a group to do spawns with on Siege. And since people commonly have open invites to tag along, reason number two is often the same people as reason number one.

    I realize that it is more complex than my brief point. I'm just leery of attracting even more Diablos to come for "VvV" who aren't interested in participating in any other way on the shard. If the lack of VvV arties is honestly the only reason they don't play here, then I am curious if their absence is really that detrimental.

    But, I'm crazy and opinionated. And also writing this from the toilet at work, so there you go.....
     
  10. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Slightly Crazed
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    First let me state that I do not pvp or VvV at all. If I am attacked (and I win) I dry loot everything I can. If I lose I remake my suit and start again. I refuse to ever buy back or get angry with people who dry loot me. It's a game and my role playing does not allow me to be a bad guy.

    I have always thought that all VvV artis (and all VvV potions etc) should be useable by everyone with no restrictions on Siege ( VvV or not VvV). I also think they should make them much more expensive or harder to get all these. If all could use them then there would be no advantage as far as I can see to abuse non VvV players (except for perhaps less chance to make money).

    I also think looting in VvV should be encouraged and buy -backs discouraged. Otherwise we might as well have insurance, which most players seem to be against.

    I sure would also like system messages when a town goes into VvV for non VvV players.
     
  11. Val'lyn De'ana

    Val'lyn De'ana Seasoned Veteran

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    I'll also add, if I get mad at anyone, it's myself for the mistake I made that got me killed and lost something of importance to me. Other than that...it's the cost of playing.

    -Val'lyn
     
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  12. Max Blackoak

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    I think this is an interesting thought and it might be just about as good a solution as Freja's suggestion to increase droprates for ingredients and artifacts.

    If we could get the VvV artifacts useable by everyone no matter if they are in VvV or not this would even out the field.
    It would prevent PKs from having an even bigger advantage over the PvM chars.
    Making the arties so that if you loot them you can use them yourself would totally be in line with the Siege ideas.
    On the other hand replacing said artifacts could be made less of a grind thus encouraging PvP because you don't have to spend the next week or so farming for a new suit.

    The only downside is that crafters would get even less business than today...
     
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  13. Feanaro

    Feanaro Journeyman

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    I'm sorry, but the people you claim never stood a chance against the people with faction arties still don't stand a chance without them. A pvm guy who doesn't pvp that often is never gonna stand a chance vs someone with decent experience. Take away the monster ignore? I can understand that, it was an unfair advantage for us, no doubt about it. "Vending machine artifacts"? Every one is able to join vvv and use the artifacts, being freely attackable anywhere is the curse. Without the artifacts we lose people, plain and simple. I have played here on and off for a few years now, and I have not fought a good pvper that was blue and didn't use the faction arties. So who are the non combatants out there complaining? Or are the devs only listening to a certain 250+ member guild here? Keep making it harder to make suits here and the siege everyone loves is gonna die more than it already is, but hey that would be great for that 250+ member idoc guild. _fean
     
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  14. Val'lyn De'ana

    Val'lyn De'ana Seasoned Veteran

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    I honestly never had issue with faction artis. VvV should be on Siege. If you feel you are missing out on them, there is a pretty easy solution, join VvV and get some.

    If you PvM and are worried about getting killed by the PvPers, you probably would have even if you had the perfect suit.

    As long as nothing is blessed, I see no reason to have them. If people complain about farming, too bad...deal with it, that is your choice if you want access to those artifacts. If you don't want to lose a suit...don't run around in it or only do so when you feel confident in your skills (even against possible ganks).

    -Val'lyn
     
  15. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    If anyone really wanted to play on Siege, they would play here. VvV artifacts are not a dealbreaker. Nor are they needed here.

    PvPers are usually good at adapting templates so even if that prodo template won´t work here because you can´t get the artifacts, it shouldn´t be hard to tweak your template to go along with the new loot and imbued pieces.
     
  16. -Hey Arnold-

    -Hey Arnold- Seasoned Veteran

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    Im not sure why people think VvV items are "vending machines". Having them put back in at a higher cost then other shards and maybe some type of turn in for non VvV Promotes more pvp and a huge increase in population. Saying that they are a huge advantage over non VvV player is very silly...the fact that there use to be a monster ignore buff and people are upset about VvV artifacts is funny. If a decent pvper trys to kill a pvmer the pvmer will lose 9 out of 10 times. Its not like people join VvV and have a suit boom ready to go..You still need crafters for 90% of your gear so im not sure how it would split the community. It would increase population and increase the need for crafters. The Way the VvV system is on siege now there is 0 reason to join it.. 0 reason to actually fight for the towns which is pretty much the hole reason of the system..a pvp system that does not promote pvp hmmm.
     
  17. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    We heard all of these arguments the first time around. It damn near ended Siege by allowing farties.
     
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  18. Critical Gaming

    Critical Gaming Lore Master
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    No it didn't. haha. So dramatic. I can personally attest that it made PvP active again on SP, as I was there for it. Even though it costed 80k silver PER SUIT - them being available still made it worth it.

    I'm surprised you didn't say legendary artifact loot "damn near ended Siege" by that logic, seeing as how I have chests full of that stuff.

    The arties are a good foundation for suits in this era of UO. Not allowing them to be blessed or insured still keeps the Siege ruleset in mind. As far as allowing others to wear them, take the "owned by" tag off and jack up the VvV points cost.
     
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  19. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I understand VvV would like to use their silver to replace lost suits, that do make sense.

    Two thing is important to me:

    1 It must be useable off all, no owner only, must be cursed.
    2 There have to be other ways to get this Artifacts than doing VvV, crafting, farming, treasure chests and fishing
    3. Crafting, farming, treasure chests and fishing should still be the fastes and cheapest way to get the artifacts.

    Then I can accept, VvV buying them with Silver.

    Siege is not just a PvP shard, the community is important too, and a good community have all kind of playstyles not just PvP'ers.

    When you put a PvP'er in overpowered suit, you make it even harder for a non PvP'er to have a chance vs him, he already how to PvP so with that extra advantage, it's impossible for a non PvP'er to fight him. As a PK, that may be nice to be sure to win, but to win, you need someone to fight. If players stay in houses, towns or stealth around, there won't be any to PK.

    I hated faction, bud did PvP in the past. I did ok, and believe I do now too, but when we got the farties, I gave up trying, because I had no chance. We need to learn of the past.
     
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  20. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Put them in with clean up rewards, then drop a 0 off the cost of all the equippables so armor is 6k a set, jewels are 30k a set, talismans are 30k, and put the arties in 30kish cost. Making those basic suits, handy jewels, and talismans fairly easily attainable would be a solid boon I think. And it seems like an easy fix too programming wise.
     
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  21. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    See! I just knew this thread might develop into a decent conversation. Everyone wants the easy button...

    Just because I use all of the tools in game for my amusement, does not mean I did not oppose them in the beginning.

    Soul Stones. I knew those were a bad idea. I pushed the limits of decorum on occasion arguing that Soul Stones would be the end of player interaction and the death of player towns.

    I think I have a hundred soul stones now between Kelmo, Dio, and Pink.

    I do not have very many active player towns to visit where I know I will see some one I know.

    I thought tele tiles were a terrible idea for Siege. I have one of the many excellent public tele tile hubs on Siege.

    So... there ya go. I will argue my point until it is pointless. *winks*

    Farties will not bring any players to Siege that matter. I have seen more PvP in the last several weeks than I have in years.

    If you artifact loving fanbois ever decide to leave your care free, insured and everything is abundant life styles... Come play Siege. Where mortal combat will win you a wall hanging.
     
  22. Quickblade

    Quickblade Lore Keeper
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    I think VVV arties would bring more players to Siege . Just had a discussion with some friends and they said if they put VVV arties back , they will come on Siege
     
  23. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    It still depend how they are added. players want to replace lost gear easier without using hours doing PvM or crafting. That's fair enough.
    But I don't think they should be VvV items but you should be able to buy items for your silver, that be wanted deco items, recipes, gems useful for trading with crafters and farmers.

    If we get vendor fee down, so players can sttack their vendors and crafters can get the recipes and resources to meke the items, I'm sure they will be on vendors to a fair Price.
    This way, the players will still depend of each others.
     
  24. Critical Gaming

    Critical Gaming Lore Master
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    So why don't we draft something up and take it to Uhall?
     
  25. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Why not start with a poll?
     
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  26. Critical Gaming

    Critical Gaming Lore Master
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    I put a poll up. I don't think its biased but I am grossly in favor so it might be totally biased. If its unacceptable then someone else can do it.
     
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