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VvV Expansion! (PvP focus)

Discussion in 'UO Vice vs Virtue' started by cazador, Jun 7, 2015.

  1. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Ideas to expand on the current system in a phased way to eliminate huge amount of bugs!

    Phase 1:

    Add a scoring system like Punkte in addition to the leaderboard. It was always fun to show off your Punkte.
    Have the Punkte actually mean something..

    Rules for kills/deaths
    - Character must be over 45 days old

    - Character must have 650+ skill points to be worth a point.

    - You do not gain points from a trial accounts

    - If you die to a Non VvV and a VvV character you lose and are awarded no points

    - Only one kill may be recorded for that specific character you killed once every hour (You cannot res-kill or grief a specific player to power game kill points)

    - Kills won't be credited if both accounts are the same IP

    - Each death counts as -1/2 point for kill. You may lose 1/2 point per half hour.(To prevent griefing, and killing friends alts for points)
    - You stop losing points and awarding points to your assailant at -5 score

    - Each VvV Kill is now worth 25 silver per kill out of a VvV active town, and 100 Silver in a VvV active town.
    ----------

    New Title Rewards
    (Could add a bonus or not)

    (M)Monthly (Kills recorded in a 30 day cycle period and then reset to 0)

    (P)Permanent (Kills accumulated over time)

    (Titles Do NOT Transfer)

    10 Kills in Britain - 1000 Silver
    The Guardian of Britain(M)
    The Protector of Britain(P)

    50 Kills In Britain - 5000 Silver
    The Warden of Britain(M)
    The Protector of Compassion(P)

    100 Kills In Britain - 10,000 Silver
    The True Britannian(P)
    Champion of Britain(M)

    End game: Once all titles are acquired from all town you can choose between 3 titles

    50,000 Silver
    Champion of "Shard"
    Champion of Virtue
    Champion of Vice

    That alone could add over 50 New Titles. (plug and play)

    Phase. ii: VvV Crafting
    Tbd





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  2. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    "- Kills won't be credited if both accounts are the same IP" I doubt that would work, but it would definitely be nice if it could.

    but it all sounds very good, especially the monthly reset (even a bi-monthly reset would be nice) & the show-score/punkte.

    What about "Assists" though? Maybe award 2 pts for the killing blow and 1 to all that contributed to killing the target (or less).
     
  3. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I would assume the have the backend built to be able to see if it's the same IP, who knows tho..I'm sure if they did they would of fixed faction farming


    They have the framework build over in Test center to track K/D/A maybe at one point they planned to incorporate it but never finished it or didn't see it as worth it. But if that were the case it would probably be better that way K: 2 points D: -1 point A- 1 point..

    Only because I don't know how well it could track 1/2 points..


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  4. Marisa Kirisame

    Marisa Kirisame Seasoned Veteran

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    What a useless complexity.
     
  5. Vexxed

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    Some of us enjoy something more than Tic Tac Toe.
     
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  6. Marisa Kirisame

    Marisa Kirisame Seasoned Veteran

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    Yeah, you certainly do enjoy determining "right" from the "wrong".
     
  7. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    Well.. ill ask you an honest question even though i already know the answer..... Do you PvP?

    I see you posted in Feb 2015 about being NEW and starting on Siege so Ill just say that perhaps until you have actually had experience with UO PvP you refrain from bashing ideas you dont know much about?
     
  8. Marisa Kirisame

    Marisa Kirisame Seasoned Veteran

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    In the same thread I wrote about playing on a freeshard for a while before. As for your idea, it's not about PvP at all, it's about ranking tables. You're thinking of a "right, honest" way to write down everyone's PvP scores, so those who earned their frags "the right way" (as you think so) can brag about it and those who "cheated" (again, as you think about it) would not be able to.

    As for the current PvP, read "Marisa's PvP Classification". Personally, I prefer the most success rate PvP type of that classification, but it's kinda hard to organise that.
     
  9. Lore Denin (GL)

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    You make good points Marisa about other ways of viewing success in pvp, but I am not sure why you would you be against honest and fair rankings. Having scores and kills, etc are completely useless when they are so easily modified and cheated. All the above are great additions and would go a long way in preventing farming kills.

    I might add you can't receive more then 2 points per hour per account... ie as stated above a person could still gain 5-6 points every hour from an alt account. This way if you kill someone then they log on an alt and you kill them you still get points for both, if they log on 6 characters and you kill all 6 in that hour.. well its more likely they are helping you farm rather then that terrible at pvp.

    -Lore
     
  10. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    You are obviously entitled to your opinion. This isn't a flashy new artifact idea, all I was attempting to suggest was expanding the whole VvV idea into something with substance. Right now the focus of the entire system is to have a thief and an alt account standing in the town and steal sigils to farm points to sell vending items. There is no real replay value. Once the items become worthless the system becomes abandoned. When VvV first came out there were tons of people on almost every shard playing it. Then when they nerfed the points and made it so you actually had to grind..it stopped. Now that's not saying that this exact same idea wouldn't have the same effect in 3-4 months, but with an accurate scoreboard that was against the solo farming it would have incentive to actually play a PvP character over just another tracking stealther sigil stealer. Titles were just a suggestion, mainly because it just wouldn't be fair to get some super elite artifact. All that does is add the same cry factor that scrolls have had for so long. With titles, aesthetic clothing, deco its adds real replay value. If you have better ideas, then simply state them. The worse thing that can happen is the devs don't like the idea. I don't think this would ever be implemented but why not come up with a well thought out idea..you never know right.

    But with all that said, there isn't any real complexity to it, it's pretty simple actually. You kill someone you get a point, you die you lose points, when you've accumulated points you can buy title deeds..want to talk complexity we can start a craft/reforge/imbue/enhance thread.


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  11. Mikeltin5

    Mikeltin5 Journeyman

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    I like everything you wrote with the exception of this one. I agree res-killing shouldn't give additional points, but I would have it coded as "no points are awarded while player is in stat or within 10 minutes (or however long stat loss is without a potion), whichever comes first". With all the other limitations you mentioned, IP address, etc. it would eliminate farming points, but with the stat loss gone via potion or waiting the time out, if someone wants to return to fel after that point why shouldn't I get the points for killing them?

    The other limitations prevent ppl from farming with alt accounts (unless with my idea I've unraveled another issue), but would allow to kill those that want to keep returning to fel on their own demise.
     
  12. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I personally would rather it be once every 10 minutes. But keeping it at an hour slows the points from really racking up, makes getting to higher tiers take longer. 30 minutes would probably make more sense as in time. Means you can only give one point per 1 1/2 town battles.


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  13. Mikeltin5

    Mikeltin5 Journeyman

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    Ya I could compromise with 30 min. But the concept would only work by having a thriving VvV system. If no one goes to the towns (since at least on my shard we always revert back to yew gate), the points would be worthless unless the K/D/A included all oj's in all locations of fel, not just within the towns. Maybe a certain bonus for kills within the town or certain perks that make the towns worthwhile again, not just a fad. Without something that either deteriorates over time or something that can be sold VvV will become stale again with little to no meaning other then having VvV arties for those that want/need them.
     
  14. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Well I think if the K/D/A only mattered in towns for points to buy the title deeds it would add incentive to actually fight in the towns. The main reason towns are empty is because there is no incentive to actually fight there. Just like most others I only do towns when I need artifacts. If you could gain silver outside towns there would be literally zero reason to do it. Another idea would be to actually WIN towns. Each town has a 45 minute timer to win it. If you win the town you receive a buff until the town comes back up again. Like if you take Britain you receive +2hpr as long as your guild controls the town. Now if you win Brit you'll have to defend it again in 6 hours which is a 45 minute fight. If you lose whatever guild wins Controls the town for the next 6 hours


    Another small mini game would be Town Warfare Challenges. Say it's an instances fight where you set up a 5v5 45 minute fight and whichever team win winds the challenge. The Controllers could wager their control for gold.
    Example:
    Team A wins Skara Brae
    Team B challenges them to a Town Warfare battle for 5 million gold!
    If Team A wins the challenge the retain the town and the 5 million gold is split between the participants. 1v1 up to 10v10
    If Team B wins in the allotted time they retain their gold and take Control of the Town until the 6 hour control time is over.


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  15. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
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    The only thing I would want is the score counter like we had with punkte/showscore and get silver for kills outside of a town. The rest we can do without, I hate to see them break a semi-functioning system so quickly.
     
  16. Mikeltin5

    Mikeltin5 Journeyman

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    It may just be my shard...but literally nobody fights in the towns. Its either spawns or yew. To me...that constitutes broken. And with the scoreboard only being tracked for in-town K/D/A, the boards are inaccurate even if you ONLY count the legit kills and exclude the farming.
     
  17. Marisa Kirisame

    Marisa Kirisame Seasoned Veteran

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    Personally, if the system gives no motivation for the play except points that are redeemed into items, it won't attract the bigger game and epic mass guild wars, and so let's just screw the system and make another, with rewards more attractive for the guilds and more suitable for epic guild on guild battles.
     
  18. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
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    People usually pvp at yew gate because they simply just want to pvp, not utilizing the towns doesn't mean it's broken. It just means there's not much incentive to really do them.

    They do need to fix the boards to just represent kills and deaths whether in or out of town. Part of pvp is bragging rights, give the people what they want.

    You most likely wont ever see a mass pvp war because they broke the system down into guild pvp instead of larger groups. I've seen a handful of guilds pvping in town but it's just not the same.
     
  19. Mikeltin5

    Mikeltin5 Journeyman

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    That's what I mean by broken. If there's no incentive to fight in the towns (other then catching a stray thief stealing sigils) then whats the purpose of VvV? To give better or easy arties for players? If its going to be a part of pvp then it needs to be created in a fashion that constantly and consistently draws pvpers to it...spawns have a purpose...pvm for monsters...pvp to catch pvmers...scrolls for everyone. That will never change and shouldn't. But implementing a culture specifically for pvp that pvpers don't use...come on now...broken o_O
     
  20. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
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    PVP did go up as a result of VVV at least on Great Lakes and it is used often but not all the time. I'm not sure how it looks on other shards but that seems more of a population problem than a design flaw.
     
  21. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Slightly Crazed

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    I would say it's a combination of both Population and lack of participation. I for one play most WC shards, but do not enjoy VvV at all in it's current enrollment. On dead shards should there be less participation, logically, yes. But like kyronix said the Asian playerbase is HUGE in VvV. It's actually pretty cool watching them play. I think it is just based on the community of people you got on a shard by shard basis
     
  22. Mikeltin5

    Mikeltin5 Journeyman

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    Even with a community filled with hatred or just a desire to pvp without the gen chat BS, people want to pvp...not all...maybe not even most...but 9 times outa 10 if u want a fight u can get one on most any shard. If you want a fight but you want scrolls...you spawn and stir up trouble. Want stat scrolls...? Do a harry and announce it. Want VvV ______ (fill in the blank), go to yew gate. There's no overall drive to do VvV other then a flawed scoreboard. It has potential...but its developmental stage has been dropped for Time of Legends.
     
  23. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Slightly Crazed

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    I would actually disagree with you that you can get a fight on most shards 9/10 times. I would say that on GL, Atl and LS is the only one that you might be able to use those statitics. The rest of the shards you will find little to no pvp unless it's during prime time and even at that we're talking about maybe 3v3
     
  24. Mikeltin5

    Mikeltin5 Journeyman

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    Ya that's true...9/10 is a bit exaggerated. But I typically only play during prime-ish hours so if pvpers aren't actively fighting spawns normally draw them out.
     
  25. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    You do realize the pvp on LS/GL/ and ATL are all the same people for the most part right? We argue about population and what new great system we can have that will "lure" or attract new players in PvP. But the problem is there really isn't anyone anywhere. All these stats of well the game is 90% trammies and 10% PvP is hogwash. I'd say it's more 60/40 at this point..and don't forget at least 80% of the PvP percentage PvM..it all boils down to we have a superrrrrr small community at this point and they are all spread over 20 something shards. For the people who mainly PvP. In order to get a decent fight anymore you HAVE to have characters on 3-4 shards. Once you dominate one shard they move to the next. I won't bring up shard mergers again..but! Merge the shards! :/ ok sorry


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  26. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Slightly Crazed

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    Yes, when we are talking about the devote PvPer's from the East you are generally fighting the same ones shard to shard minus the established locals of those shards. But when it comes to shards that those devout do not play, then it has to do with the community of the shard, and that's what is hurting the VvV system for shards with lower population.

    And yes, PLEASE MERGE SHARDS OR DUNGEONS!
     
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  27. Drk

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    For the love of god, merge T2A, dungeons, and vvv towns in fel. You can do it Broadsword. I played daoc fine with the merrycans.
     
  28. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    What do "Punkte" mean, guess I missed something

    That's to long time, even on Siege a char may be ready to join VvV before 30 days, special if they do VvV on other shard and are making a new char for Siege.

    Why? I understand some are cheating to get easy kills, but if a weak char want to block my alter, I don't see why I should not get a kill point.
    Thought Trial accounts was not allowed to go to Felucca.

    You mean the VvV is awarded no point? Not sure about that, the non VvV do not get point or silver so I see no reason for him not to join. To many rules make it complicated and make even more ways to abuse the system. Keep it simpel

    I would say once a town. And yes I have alot deaths and only few kills but the fights was good even when I sucks in PvP :p

    I understand you try to stop cheating and if you mean same computer, I agree, but if in same subnet, it could very well be real fights. Again, keep it simpel else the rules hurt to many innocent

    Again to many rules to handle a few cheaters. I don't like that, just kill the cheaters and griefers

    While I see why you want this, it may also have a bad effect, more will cheat to get easy kill, and we will see more killing at spawn and in non VvV towns, think this special will be bad for Siege, where we don't have trammel for safe shopping and farming. I like the fights to be mostly in VvV towns

    All fine for Virtue chars but we would like some Vice titles too and we need a way for a char/guild to choosse Vice, Virtue or Neutral (not choosen side)
    I still have a problem with to much silver for killing as it will make more grief. It also make it way harder for not so skilled VvV'ers as less silver will mean less good gear and less access to other VvV rewards.
    The titles are fine but the silver is to high as you already get silver for your kill.

    Again, way to much silver

    Did not mean to dump your post but there will always be some who will find ways to ruin a good system
     
  29. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    The old faction "showscore" command was translated into different languages. One of which being "punkte". Some people liked to use other languages to show their score.