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VVV Mana Spikes request

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Goodmann, Mar 3, 2015.

  1. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    Can we get a reduction of the cost of these. 1k is twice the amount of any artifact and it's a one time use (consumable) it should be 100 points-300 at max. Thanks
     
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  2. Kyronix

    Kyronix UO Designer
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    At our last M&G a player brought up that they thought the mana spikes were OP in the grand scheme of the match and the nullification of 240 skill points specific to the stealther template. The player went on to mention that they couldn't use a similar item to nullify a comparative amount of skill points on another template (he used the example of a dexter). I'd be interested in a civil discussion of the merits of reducing the cost of the mana spike and this player's assertion.
     
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  3. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    yeah it's hard to justify spending 1k of silver for a 1 use item when I can use VVV artifact (only 500 points) for 3-6 months before I need another.
    Civil discussion- VvV was designed to get more players interested in PVP and replace factions. Hiding and stealthing around all day isn't exactly pvp. Hiding and Stealthing isn't 240 points of skill (100 hide and you only need 40 stealth + items to stealth around) so now were talking about 140 points invested in a skill which basically you can argue for any template. Maybe if your a pure thief (stealing,hide,stealth,snoop) can negate the effects of a mana spike or it doesn't last as long.

    I think the people who claim mana spikes are to OP are looking out for there best interest of not being able to hide all day and farm points/silver. I can play a stealther at a town and just stealth from alter to alter to take a town. I can shadow jump onto the alter to reset the timer then back off. A dexxer has no chance of revealing me and if they do I can smoke bomb instantly/animal form away then come back and repeat. My argument is why NOT have these at a reasonable price because at 1k or even 500 there not going to be used. For 500 points I can get 10 consumable stat pot or 1 mana spike that last a minimal time. I suggest 200 points per spike which makes it above the average of other consumables but below the useful artifacts.
     
    #3 Goodmann, Mar 3, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2015
  4. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I didn't think people even wasted points on those :/


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Slightly Crazed

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    And this is what happens when you don't have a single person in the Dev team who engages in pvp. Even with them not pvping, all it would take is having @Kyronix host an hours worth of pvp on a server to see the disfunction their system has. Don't just pop in at some random unannounced time! Start hosting a fight once a week, make a public announcement before hand so people can catch wind, host it on a different shard each time and I guarantee after 4 weeks you will see the type of pvp this system has brought. Encourage those that have never pvp'd to give it a shot. Jail and/or Ban those that get out of line with gen chant. DO NOT GO TO TEST CENTER, of course people won't go there to test it...I mean shouldn't all the other failed attempts to get people to test an update show you that by now?

    We have EM's whom host events that reward the community with a possible item that can sell from 100m-2b. Why do we not have an EM or Dev host some sort of PvP experience? Have strict rules and make sure you enforce them. Yea some EMs have their events in Fel, but it is still strongly favoring PvM. I don't believe it would need to be once a week like EM events, but maybe it would eventually. If you gave people a fun reason to come out to try pvp knowing that you, Kyronix, are watching and/or hosting will give them a sense of relief. You could have them at champ spawns, VvV towns or anywhere in between. You can make them field fights, free for all or choke points. You can engage pvm in the pvp experience but don't let a zerg just come in and kill the champ/mob ridiculously fast. If anything, make it harder for the zerg...

    Put it this way; the freedom the EM's have at their events allows them to use their creativity and make them fun for everyone. If someone was given similar freedoms to host pvp events, people would have fun and engage in the system again.

    The fact that you cannot answer this question yourself, Kyronix, is what sparked me to write this post. That guy is complaining about losing 240 skill points for a VERY short period of time. Those skills allow the user to hide completely from their opponent! A dexxer cannot do that! So what happens? The guy complaining most likely got redlined and smoke bombed. Normally he would survive but in this example a dexxer was smart enough to equip a mana spike and revealed him....
     
  6. Kyronix

    Kyronix UO Designer
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    I can answer the question myself, however, being that I don't deal in absolutes nor am I the final authority on anything I chose to open the topic up for discussion. Starting a dialogue and analyzing feedback is what helps to make the best decision, as it allows everyone to share their point of view.
     
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  7. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I think the mana spikes at 1000 silver isn't a horrible idea..as long as points are easier to obtain. Anyway to bring point allocations out into the field or leave them strictly in towns. I've said this multiple times..add monthly/tri-monthly items that are limited time only..never to be seen again..PERIOD! Nothing game breaking. Dyes are the #1 people all like dyes.

    Permanent Additions
    Armor tags

    "Protector of Vice" "Protector of Virtue"..adds 1% inherent Lmc to a piece of armor and turns it antique with 300/300 durability. Meddable cannot exceed 45% Non Med cannot Exceed 60%

    You could also incorporate different mods to make each and every suit more unique
    Damage Increase 5% cap 25%
    Hit chance increase 1% cap 5%
    Defense chance increase 1% cap 5%
    Spell damage increase 1% cap 5%
    Luck- 100 extra per piece cap 500
    Hit Point Increase 1 per piece cap 5

    2 Armor Tags Per Piece of Armor

    Would keep suits breaking and keep you guessing what each template has to offer..thus making the replay ability higher



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    id do vvv for limited time mounts / dyes etc. as it is now, and i think many are in the same boat "casual" pvpers who need something more than the "thrill" have pretty much lost interest.

    limited time rewards would be something that people other than addict pvpers would definitely play for.
     
  9. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    Just trying to get this nice item introduced into town fighting and would eventually like to see it be able to be used anywhere in the feluca ruleset. It will never get used at 1k points unless points become much easier. I think a fair compromise is 200-300 for a one use item. I also think at some point smoke bombs need to be addressed but thats another discussion lol
     
  10. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Slightly Crazed

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    If you could answer that question yourself, you wouldn't need input from everyone else. You would have already come to the conclusion he was making a fuss for personal gain rather than making the game better for everyone.

    The OP is right that they cost too much, they originally cost 2k silver and since have been reduced to 1k and are still never used. The fact a stealther can continually shadow jump on and off the altar to reset it is completely ridiculous.
     
  11. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    tumblr_inline_mnvxyz5vv51qz4rgp.jpg
     
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  12. Ru TnT

    Ru TnT Seasoned Veteran
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    You guys are looking at it wrong. It's not just 1k silver > 140-220 hide/stealth, it's 1k silver = 140-220 hide/stealth + 200 track/detect. Not having to train/use/learn track&detect should be worth a decent amount of silver. I think 1k is a fair price.
     
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  13. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    I would just make the sigil area a 15 by 15 auto-reveal zone, and keep the spikes at the same cost. if its not an auto-reveal zone, maybe make the spikes around 50 points.

    VvV is supposed to be for general pvp, no one wants to have to make a pvp template JUST for vvv battles and then have to stone off skills for normal pvp.
     
  14. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    anakin.jpg

    ;) Obi-wan's statement always bothered me (as did a lot of the writing for I-III), and he himself said flatly, a few minutes later, that Palpatine was evil.
     
  15. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    If you think about it logically then mana spikes should cost about 50 or 100 points if you are only gaining about 250 points from capturing a city.
     
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  16. Ru TnT

    Ru TnT Seasoned Veteran
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    Given that its probably too much to ask some people to use the tools already available in game, you might as well just lower the cost. But before you do that, you should add some mana spike type items that cause area peace(no attack/no all kill) and area silence(no casting). Everyone should be able to agree on a fair price once these items are available.
     
  17. Quickblade

    Quickblade Lore Keeper
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    JC got it right, I mean you have to compare the cost of the item used , vs the total silver you can earn in a city. and you must also compare other VVV items that has similar uses : supernovas.
    For 500 silver I can throw 10 supernovas which deal damage, reveals players in a great area. Supernovas > mana spike and they are only 50 silver per potion . I think something between 100-250 silver for one mana spike would be the ideal
     
  18. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Slightly Crazed

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    The mana spike has a cool down and allows for you to hide almost instantly afterwards. VvV was and is suppose to encourage open field combat. While I am glad you want to play a thief and run around stealing things you are in the minority of the minority here. This is suppose to get people banging on each other, not chasing some thief that relies on remaining hidden and has no offense to their template what-so-ever...

    The mana spike should be either 500 silver with multiple uses, or it should cost 50 silver for 1 use. I have lost interest in this system due to the simple fact that the majority of players that want to partake in the system play templates that require absolutely no pvp in a system that was suppose to ENCOURAGE pvp...
     
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  19. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    Kyronix- Is there a way to pool statistics on what items people buy with silver? Example- On atlantic how many supernova potions have been bought compared to mana spikes? I literally have only seen 3 mana spikes used (atlantic) since the creation of VvV and I think I used 2 of them!
     
  20. Acid Rain

    Acid Rain Lore Keeper
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    No new VvV player will continue PvPing when they get out run mounted by an orc on foot spamming level 7 spells the whole timeo_O. Yes, this just happened to me last night on Atlantic. Address the rampant cheating (generally speeders, glitches, and 3rd party programs that bypass in game timers) and you may get more players to try VvV (PvP). No, I'm not bitter because I know most with this play style are ignorant of game mechanics and cheat simply to win. They are almost always poor players with little knowledge of the game:loser:. This players over confidence, due to cheating to win constantly, ended up getting him dead and looted by yours truly ;)

    I'm just saying that a new player to VvV will stick around long enough to see others skipping around their screen w/ a speeder program cranked up on high or performing impossible feats then head straight back to Trammel. Most PvP in this game is broken for anyone not using "something" other than the legal game to compete.

    I'd suggest many of the players unhappy with stealther templates is due to not being able to run them down like they normally would other players. They are unhappy because a stealther template successfully negates unfair advantages other players employ. A stealther must rely on cunning and tactics where most other dexers just run & chase simply making the fastest player the winner. With a good stealther, speed is irrelevant and in many cases a negative. Nothing irks the kids more then cheating and still not winning :sad3:.

    Leave the mana spike costs alone, they're fine. Thanks for caring enough to ask for feedback tho.

    EDIT: To correct my mistaken identification of mana spike consumable.
     
    #20 Acid Rain, Mar 6, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
  21. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    lol it's not even a potion... check out the VvV and then come tell us what you think
     
  22. Acid Rain

    Acid Rain Lore Keeper
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    I just picked another banner yesterday. I play VvV just never picked anything other than banners and floor tiles. As soon as I get them all I'm done with VvV for good :)

    Sorry, I thought it was a potion. My bad. The graphic shows it like a staff? or something? No clue what it is as I'd never pick it but I'm not for anything that hurts stealthers so...
     
  23. Quickblade

    Quickblade Lore Keeper
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    No one ever use the mana spikes, there must have a change im sorry.
     
  24. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Slightly Crazed

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    This wall of text, and your clear disinterest in PVP made me do this :facepalm:

    Not EVERYONE is a cheater, and tbh I play from California and have no issues keeping up with the majority on Atl. Dueling is a different story, but running in a straight line is fine. I'm not about to have this thread turn back into an argument on how CE works, but your ignorance on the whole subject shows you clearly have no idea. There is nothing out there that can make you, as you said, "use 3rd party programs that bypass in game timers". It is IMPOSSIBLE...

    Here is the funny thing about your post, there are 5 active pvper's all agreeing that some sort of change needs to happen and they are all coming up with ideas on how to, BUT you clearly being an inactive pvper who's only goal is to attain the rewards and then QUIT will have your opinion listened to by Kyronix.
     
  25. Acid Rain

    Acid Rain Lore Keeper
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    I'm sorry to many words hurts your eyes and makes you face palm:dunce:. I forget not everyone reads well. Maybe if I use more pictures it will help you.:mf_prop:

    I never said nor inferred "EVERYONE" is a cheater. You are clearly uninformed if you think certain programs cant bypass in game timers. This happens daily. One of the most glaring was the game wrecking potion throwing script that literally made honest players run from UO at warp speed:eek2:. For 5 months this "IMPOSSIBLE" script was used exclusively in PvP until it finally got enough attention to get a patch. No one ever got jailed or banned for it. It was dire enough to need a patch fix but no action was ever taken against those using it. During that time I had 4 friends quit playing UO and close accounts because they all agreed PvP in UO wasn't worth their time:(.

    Back to the point: I do what I must to get certain PvP based rewards I would like for my homes. That means I am forced into PvP. De facto, I am an active PvPer like it or not. I'd be willing to bet many players on Atlantic complaining about stealthers and wanting an item that makes it easier to kill them has been upset by my character:p. If I can not take a town, I make sure all guilds there wait the full 20mins which gets many players mad since usually they can not kill me. I steal towns by taking altars while everyone else fights:D. I play smart which upsets others that just want to run someone down, kill them, take the town and move on. I am one of the stealthers that shadow jumps on and off altars, stopping you from taking them:party:.

    Eat into your points a little if you want to negate my template. You probably get 5x more points then I anyway.

    Thanks for listening Kryonix, this PvPer thinks the mana spikes are just fine. Keep up the good work Sir:thumbsup:.
     
  26. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    1) You implied that you have to cheat in order to succeed at pvp. That's not true.
    2) It is impossible to exceed in-game limits. The pot tossing script didn't bypass in-game limits. Further, it wasn't game breaking, most people adapted within a few days.
    3) You've ranted against pvp for years and your posts here just show how you don't even partake in pvp.
    4) No pvper is even bothering with the VvV system. Since everyone got the items they needed, no pvp guild I know of has seen any point to partake in the town owning bs. Have fun stealthing around.
    5) This is how you right a post w/o a wall of text.
     
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  27. Acid Rain

    Acid Rain Lore Keeper
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    1) I consider using a program with the word "Cheat" in its name cheating. If you were truthful, you would admit most PvPers use it.
    2) I never said "EXCEED", I said "Bypass" - meaning to get around. Yes, it did get around the ability to throw potions at a certain speed by using a script to throw them FAR more than humanly possible. It may not have been game breaking for you and your friends but honest players quit UO over it.
    3) I rant against cheating in PvP, NEVER against PvP in general. I was Pking folks in 1998 long before you knew what UO was.
    4) You must not play on my shard because a dozen or more PvP guilds take part daily in the town VvV system.
    5) Thanks for showing me how to WRITE a wall of text, even if your # 1-4 were completely inaccurate and grammer police issued a warrent for #5.

     
  28. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    1)Most people use wtfast and lowerping (two proxy services that have been declared legal). I've never used CE but am able to compete with people who do use it.
    2)Right, so it didn't bypass in-game limits (like you previously stated).
    3)Your time would be better spent ranting against the cheaters in pvm. How many pvp cheats have resulted in shard-reverts, system-wide item deletions, and a completely out of whack economy?
    4)I play on Atlantic. I'm aware of what the pvp community is like. You play in HOT and admittedly only partake in the PvP system for deco. Thanks for your opinion.
    5)Typos happen. My points still got across.

    Back on topic: mana spikes (at their current cost) are a waste of points and no one uses them. The proof is in the pudding.
     
  29. Acid Rain

    Acid Rain Lore Keeper
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    On Topic :
    1) I think the player at the M&G was correct. It is indeed 220 skill points, how you attain them is irrelevant. It is still 220 skill points. To include 200 points for track/detect is also a valid argument. Any player with skills items gives up other mods to get them. Stealth archers are a valid PvP template and just because some do not like it doesn't make it any less so.
    2) VvV was NEVER made to solely accommodate open field fighting. It was made to give PvPers something better to replace a failing Factions system. Again, it wasn't made with one play style exclusively in mind.
    3) If a guild can run a town start to finish it takes around 8 mins. That's about 6 towns per hour. Depending on how many VvV players killed or sigals stolen, roughly 1700 points per hour. Spending some points to negate an entire template that relies on only being seen when desired hardly seems unfair or imbalanced.
    4) You can not get points if you
    You don't get any points while hidden with other guilds present. That was patched already. Knowing the game you play helps make factual comments.
    5) If my shadow jumping is so upsetting, put reveal on a character, use potions to reveal me, use any one of the dozen in game mechanics that combat this tactic. Don't cry to the DEVs to make an item much cheaper so you don't have to cut into your farming of Royal Forged Pardons to sell.
    6) I think the players complaining about the cost of mana spikes are upset their guild cant farm towns daily in 8 minutes because someone is there to stop them.
    7) The same player complaining about the cost of mana spikes to negate an entire template also wants a smoke bomb nerf.... 'nuff said.
    8) Another player complaining about the cost of mana spikes wants to
    Are you kidding? Because there's one template you don't like, everyone should change to your play style? LOL
    9) Mana spikes cool down that allows you to hide is a non-issue if you use them with any semblance of intelligence. Reveal the player and use the mana spike while attacking. Its impossible to hide while being attacked and the stealther has ZERO mana to use a smoke bomb = dead stealther.
    10) The 1k cost of an item that negates 220 skill points and arguable 420 (including tracking/detect) seems beyond fair to me.

    You taught me well Sith-Martell but I will not be following your dark path. The wall of text is evil and I now feel dirty. Logging for a shower.
    (PS. I do not have a single character in HOT guild, your mistaken again)
     
  30. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    [​IMG]
     
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  31. Spock's Beard

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    Kyronix should clearly listen to the guy whose only objective is to stealth around until he gets the rewards he wants and quits. After all, everyone else can just cripple their templates with tracking/detect right? Which I'm sure they will all TOTALLY do, rather than just go fight at Yew Gate and leave this system to die.

    Uh huh.

    Honestly it's been ridiculously obvious for years that nobody developing this game actually plays it.
     
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  32. Acid Rain

    Acid Rain Lore Keeper
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    Everyone should clearly conform to the same 4 templates rather than show initiative and adapt. After all, if your template doesn't match what I feel is a legit PvP template then it shouldn't be allowed. The fact that I'm having trouble killing this guy, that he takes towns on a template that cant even heal, and sometimes even kills me shows that the DEVs should change the game making it easier to kill him (and other players with similar templates).

    I'm sure the entire VvV system will collapse unless this stealther template is nerfed asap. Heck, 2 of the 5 complaining here basically said that stealthers have no business even playing the VvV system... Why don't they listen to us?

    I'm going to ignore the fact that you don't get any points for being hidden in VvV and just complain more so hopefully they nerf him.
    Honestly its ridiculously obvious this game should cater to my definition of PvPers and my small group of friends.:heart:
     
    #32 Acid Rain, Mar 8, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
  33. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    10 remove stat pots for 500 silver! You can counter death stat loss x10 for 500 silver but to use a mana spike 1 use is 1k silver
     
  34. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Slightly Crazed

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    I would honestly give up Goodman. All he is going to do is troll you with complete nonsense. He has openly admitted his only reason to participate in the VvV system, anything else he says should be disregarded.
     
  35. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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  36. chester rockwell

    chester rockwell Journeyman
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    I quit pvp for about 6 months until that BS pot-tossing crap was done away with. Having some dude speeding and tossing pots non-stop got old real fast. I specifically made a stealther when I came back to pvp because of that garbage.

    Instead of nerfing this or changing that to suit people.....stop the f'n speeders/scripters. It's daggum ridiculous. Fix the baseline problem, then go from there.
     
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  37. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Slightly Crazed

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    Or, how about you practice and get better? I am 100% legit and I will gladly stream to prove that I am. I have ZERO difficulty with anyone whom might be scripting. As for CE, I have never seen some one "skip" across my screen. I don't believe anyone that says they have. CE will not let you move faster then the server can, so anyone that brings up these arguments are ignorant. What you should look at is your own internet connection, packet loss and ping. Are you playing from california on an east coast server? Then yes, people can be dramatically faster than you.

    What I do have a problem with his killing these templates that only need to hit a macro and consume a smoke bomb and they are gone. Or they break LoS and get a hide off. Both are ridiculous and do not promote pvp, they hinder it. Playing Cat and Mouse is not the pvp the majority of pvpers want.

    I am also completely disappointed in how everyone plays 211 archers and as soon as they reach 50% life they run. What fun is it to constantly chase someone who is going to wait until the RNG favors them and they get 3AIs and 2MS for the kill? Thanks for nerfing bolas so I can't put them on foot...Alas this is a whole nother topic....
     
  38. Spock's Beard

    Joined:
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    B-b-but muh skill points! All PVP must boil down to an endless tedious attempt to figure out if I'm even still around or not, BECAUSE MUH 240 SKILL POINTS!
     
    Old Vet Back Again likes this.
  39. Ru TnT

    Ru TnT Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran TnT/TnA

    Joined:
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    How about you practice and get better? Its really not that hard to deal with stealthers.

    Its one of my favorite types of pvp!
     
    Acid Rain likes this.
  40. chester rockwell

    chester rockwell Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

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    For all the people who are "sweet" at pvp, you sure do whine a lot about other templates you cant run down.
     
    Acid Rain likes this.