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Want to catch scripters?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Fridgster, Jan 31, 2012.

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  1. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    I have a feeling if GM's where to camp the blacksmith area's they are about to see a whole lot of scripters.
     
  2. allie_oops

    allie_oops Adventurer

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    Nah, anyone with half a brain would use some obscure smith/tailor in the middle of nowhere. That's not to give too much credit to the 'push play' generation of script kiddies, so I'm sure you'd find a few.


    If you stop resource farming at it's heart you'd effectively stop this as well.

    Though to the same regard a simple monitoring of Heartwood, and of the most used characters on specific NPCs would allow you to then view their time logged in; when it approaches 20 hours a day you're not dealing with a person.

    That's how Blizzard was taking care of similar issues with power leveling services.


    This is all I'm really interested in anymore. I just want to help remove the elephant in the room. We fix scripting and the means which makes it more profitable over regular gameplay and you have a game that welcomes new players.

    Assistance towards this matter should be vocal and directed constructively, as whether people want to ignore it or not it's the largest determent to the health of our game.


    Hope everyones work day is going as well :)
    Allie
     
  3. sherkborg

    sherkborg Guest

    Good points however you fail to see that only the players care about the scriptors.
     
  4. Smurcoch

    Smurcoch Guest

    I personally think scripters are fine.

    I do not want to spend my only amount of time I can play this game trying to find random valorite spots. Instead, I can just buy the ingots.

    Who really cares to be honest.

    I think in order for UO to be fixed, EM's have to quit giving out items, every gold coin in the game has to be deleted. and we have to go back to pre pub 16.

    Until that happens, learn to live with the game as it is now. and unfortunetly that means dealing with resource gathering scripters.
     
  5. allie_oops

    allie_oops Adventurer

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    That's not remotely true! Until you can provide the understaffed, overworked Development Team with more than "we don't like scripters, they're bad" (sarcasm implied , hehe) we're going to have the situation we do now.


    Run down this check list :

    A) What's the problem?
    B) What's causing the problem?
    C) Who is making the problem?
    D) What solutions can be found to resolve the problem?


    If you can take your time and complete that, and then skip posting on stratics and PM the Devs that are in charge of whatever specific field your issue is in (Presumably Bleak or Phoenix since it's probably system based changes) We will start having accountable actions taken.

    You can't ask them to do the leg work, that's OUR job, and rightfully so.

    So to take the check list for example and complete it :

    A) What's the Problem?
    Scripting Resources (Mining/Lumberjacking) done on a large scale [6+ accounts] provides extremely large amounts of resources, which then get turned into crafted items and sold to NPC vendors for 'new' gold, or fill up vendors until the market reaches a saturation point and the player market price continues to decline.

    B) What's causing the problem?
    The resource system currently allows you to recall all over the world, smacking a tree, grabbing wood, recalling to your bank/house, dropping it in a secure and rinse/repeating until the end of time. It ends up being ~100 stones of product, every 15 seconds. From start to finish of a cycle.


    The second part of the problem is that the NPC vendors will buy player crafted items at a standard price and don't "fill up" until they run out of gold. At which point you recall to a new vendor, and continue on the cycle , eventually the vendor will respawn with more gold.


    C) I don't know names. This is more for Private Messaging Devs :p

    D)

    If you were to limit the total quantity of wood and ore farmed per account per day, you would be able to set hardcaps that could not be abused. Sure, someone could open up another 5-10 accounts to TRY and make up for it, but you'd have sealed the dam, to allow a faucet to drip. As long as this change was out of the scope of the regular (even hardcore) player, it'd be very beneficial. Even the most hardcore player is not recalling to tree -> swing -> bank -> drop every 15 seconds for 5 hours straight.

    To test which items give the best bang for the buck when sold to an NPC, requires simply making a few of each carpentry and fletching item out of each wood type. Then checking the sell price/wood per item. This would show which items are most easily exploited, and could allow for a quick and simple mark down to be followed by a system change when Dev time was more available.




    Not so hard, you just have to address the problem and take responsibility for finding a solution.

    :arr:
    Allie
     
  6. Mairut

    Mairut Guest

    I'm assuming you meant that if if someone has a problem with something, then it's up to them to figure it out, correct? In other words, the burden of proof and whatnot.

    Otherwise, zip up your flame-proof suit... someone will be in here with the argument about how we spend our hard-earned money on this game and it's up to the devs to fix the problem, since we're paying them for it.

    Which is a completely legitimate argument, btw. I was just hoping we could skip over that in this thread, since that point has been beat to death :)
     
  7. allie_oops

    allie_oops Adventurer

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    I'm resilient to flaming. It's not about passing the buck, it's about getting what you want done. We're paying Devs to develop the game and manage it, they can't possibly cover all the bases all the time.

    We're 100K or so people that have the ability to influence change, this is just one example of that.

    I agree with you Mairut, that it would detract from the thread. Thanks for pointing that out as well.


    :heart:
    Allie
     
  8. Hi my name is

    Hi my name is Visitor

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    Agreed. Scripting is not a problem nobody is affected by it.
     
  9. allie_oops

    allie_oops Adventurer

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    I think I'm going to make this my signature :) Everyone is entitled to an opinion, though I would hope before taking a few seconds to give yours that you would read the thread in full. Maybe even potentially add something.
     
  10. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Personally, I say to hell with it. Make it legal. As long as you are NOT UNATTENDED, who cares. If everyone can do it without risking losing your account then either join the club or quit yer pancakes.

    As long as you are physically sitting at your computer and can respond to a GM when they check in on you why does it matter anymore. The scripters have had the advantage forever with trial accounts and other ways to keep from getting their main accounts banned.

    If you ARE caught UMing then the same rules we have today apply, temp-ban, perma-ban one account, next time perma-ban all your accounts. Simple enough.

    **puts on serious Flame retardant suit** May not help.
     
  11. allie_oops

    allie_oops Adventurer

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    I think this script took a turn more for the productive means of achieving exploitation reporting and accountability.

    Regardless of your opinions on automating tasks, their are flaws that are introduced by automating specific tasks such as mining and lumberjacking.

    Those need to be addressed.
     
  12. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Have to agree here. There really isn't much difference IMO between scripters and non-scripters doing the same activity as long as both are attended. Mainly referring to resource gathering and whatnot.

    Plus if we're going to start getting the devs/GMs going after people I'd much rather have them get the hackers than the scripters.
     
  13. Smurcoch

    Smurcoch Guest

    With Make max on tools, and uo assist macro's, scripting is very easy to do.

    grab an anceint smithy hammer with 700 charges, and make max.

    People will complain that it is unfair for you to be able to do that.

    I personally think, when they made random mining and lj spots, they just encouraged scripters.

    As for the comment of turning into NPC, I honestly have never heard of people doing that.

    If you LJ 60K frost wood, you can sell for a lot more than NPC's will give you I would think.

    Same with colored ore.

    I think the biggest problem with scripting is the pvp aid, and the pvm aid scripts. resource gathering is the least of our concerns.

    Do you know a castle on Atl shard can sell for as much as 1.5 billion gold?????

    When I first started playing this game, a castle on Atl sold for 100m.

    At at that time, that was a hell of a lot of gold.

    Now, 1.5 B seems like a lot, but I bet a lot more people have that much than you think.

    I think the dev's need to wipe all the gold, and start over.

    but everyone would complain too much, so it will never happen.
     
  14. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Well yeah, I would complain too. I'm not filthy rich, 100m is still A LOT of gold to me lol. A handful of players being ridiculously rich is no reason to make everyone bankrupt.

    Boo to that idea. :whip:
     
  15. Smurcoch

    Smurcoch Guest


    Well....

    Think about it this way.

    All that gold that was duped and wrecked the market would be gone.

    Then the hard working people, like you and me, would get some gold easy enough by going to shame, or something and getting it.

    Doing spawns in fel, or ish to get the gold drops at the end.

    Yah, things would be hard for the first month or two, but after that, you would be back on your feet. Stuff wouldn't sell for millions, but meerly thousands.

    I remember the most saught after armour was a Val plate set. It sold for 40K. for the set.

    Things can get better, but drastic measure need to be taken.
     
  16. allie_oops

    allie_oops Adventurer

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    1.5 Billion gold gets made from exploits and abuses brought out by bulk farming of resources. If I can set up a script and make as much gold as I want, since turning Wood -> Item -> New NPC Gold is a simple process, I will make (not trade) for 1.5b gold.

    If this situation happens enough, then the currency devalues and prices inflate on items.



    Gold wiping can't happen, it's a crazy idea.

    Fixing exploits and the issues caused by scripting is the problem.


    Script away all day on your lumberjack -- so long as that wood can't be turned into NPC gold, the scripters would put themselves effectively out of business.
     
  17. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Players have 1.5 billion gold and up because in 15 years this game has had very few if any effective gold sinks. The faucet has been running for 15 years. Most of the gold gets traded player to player and doesn't leave the game.

    Then there's the large dupes that happened several times. The devs said one time they got like 3 trillion gold and deleted it. You have to wonder how much they didn't catch.
     
  18. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    /signed
     
  19. popps

    popps Always Present
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    And I, instead, have to disagree and I will explain why.

    As I see it,

    #1
    Scripting hurts others' gameplay because it devalues the worth of time spent doing an in game activity. Time is limited, and if a player can do something in the game without really being at the game (see #2), this hurts the worth of the time spent doing that same activity by a player who does it manually.
    In simpler words, a scripter can price, for example, frostwood much cheaper than what a manual lumberjack could choose for the worth of the time they put into chopping wood, manually (i.e. no scripting).
    End result can be that scripters push out of that particular activity the non scripters who find it not convenient for them to do it as they cannot compete with scripters iun regards to the worth of their in game time.

    #2
    "scripting attended"......... well, when I hear that scripts have the ability to detect Game Masters text AND immediately sound an alarm to call a player to the computer to take care of the GM intervention the concept of "scripting attended" sounds odd to me......
    I mean, with a well done script what would prevent a player to just run a script and, while the script runs, watch TV, do homework, make the dishes, whatever and just run to the computer when the alarm sounds because a Game Master came to check ?
    There is just NO COMPETITION between working a UO activity manually and doing it scripted since scripts can allow a number of ways to do it unattended and still quite safely if one stays within range of the GM alarm........

    No thanks, either scripting is made legal for ALL players to use OR it is just stopped with a zero tolerance. That's how I see it.
     
  20. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    If they wanted to catch scripters the third party search sites would have had to shut down a long time ago. They are blatant and predictable and do not hide their activities.

    And the search engine scripters, they sell gold/resources. If they constantly script to keep their search engines updated, I'm pretty sure they are scripting all of those resources/gold they are farming. They are making money from exploiting the hell out of UO, and nothing is done about it.

    In fact, the search engine scripting characters were mentioned on Stratics by name and clothing type/character type last year or at the end of 2010 in a few different threads, and they didn't bother changing their character names or clothing.

    Here's one from March:

    http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/2...onger-banning-cheaters-paged.html#post1925207

    And on that rarest of occasions, I agree fully with popps:
    It really is bizarre how openly scripting is accepted both by the developers and players.

    Not everybody of course, but the search engine and resources scripters are allowed to script 23/7, so somebody has decided it's okay. If they won't go after low-hanging fruit, they won't go after many people at all.

    I know that some of the most blatant scripters were reported directly to Cal early last year and that his response was that they were being monitored by the team.
     
  21. il Diavolo

    il Diavolo Guest

    Guess the people who want to ban scripters don't really like playing UO.

    If they were to ban everyone who scripts in this game today, EA would have to pull the plug on UO within a month because they will have banned 80% of the accounts. It's not like UO is attracting new players anymore, they don't even advertise the game. Vets returning probably account for the majority of new subscriptions. Most people who script have multiple accounts, BOD runners may have up to 40 or 50 accounts that they pay $120 a year each for. Scripting is not free, it is probably the only reason EA justifies keeping the servers plugged in not to mention pay developers for new content.

    UO has always been about risk vs reward. Scripting has always been a part of UO, legal or not. To some players the risk of scripting is well worth the reward. To other players the fruits of scripting is well worth it too, imagine paying 10 times as much for resources. I guess you could go back to the days when it took a year or more to get a val hammer...you can't have instant gratification in UO without somebody scripting.

    It's pretty nearsighted to want to ban people from a game that is basically on lifesupport when you compare it to WOW or COD. If you dont play on Atlantic and you think your server is empty now, lol.
     
  22. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    To make scripters obsolete you make the item easy to get..... the easer it is the less a player will pay to buy it ..... hence the lower or obliteration of scripters other then skills that is.
     
  23. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    I agree with this.

    a scripting/macro program should just become legal for UO...

    Regardless weather or not it changes and becomes legel, it wouldn't effect the game in a negative way at this point imo, anyone that's used scripts before has gotten whatever benefit already...

    Those who don't script have benefited quite a bit just buying resources from vendors owned by the script farmers w/e the real reason everyone has tons of gold in UO is because the gold is traded from player-to-player, and it doesn't get removed from the game this way. just like E-Z says, 14-15 years of gold being created VERY little has been removed.

    With the gold sinks & reduced gold drop on revamped mobs that have been implemented the gold issue will be slowly diminishing which is good, but it'll take time. hopefully by the end of the year. the economy will be where it should be in UO (and irl too for that matter =D).
     
  24. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I fail to see why EMs should stop giving out items. EM items don't generate gold and the gold that people are paying one another for those items already existed; player-to-player transactions is nothing more than existing gold going from one person to another. Going pre pub 16 also wouldn't fix anything either. Gold existing in the game now is a combination of long-time players accumulating their gold over a long period of time with no gold sink and in rare cases being the cause of duping, that's it. Have to remember that some players have been in this game a long long time and as a result kept saving all the gold they got the whole time.
     
  25. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - That would be great; but I'm having a problem with the underlying math.
     
  26. goldenpower

    goldenpower Guest

    nope, I don't. :popcorn:
     
  27. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Actually, you can. It's called Imbuing. Shrugs. Don't even need runics now.

    Everyone plays the game differently, but I haven't had to cheat since 1999 and I don't plan to cheat. Worked Imbuing to 120, didn't script. Worth the effort. Pretty much takes an hour or so of gametime to get all the ingredients needed to make a top runic quality item.

    But have I bought from scripters? Pretty hard not to. You want to imbue, you got to buy powder. Now powder will be pretty easy to get though with BOD changes. Val runics will be easier to get too.

    I wish the game had better security but the only thing that really hurts the game IMO is PvP scripts. Handicap programs, speeders. UO PvP is a real joke. Out of date tile-based, RNG controlled, and full of cheaters. Otherwise, any one player can put forth the effort to get the majority of what they need per 5-7 characters allowed...well, except Siege, but, hey, that's the player's choice, isn't it?
     
  28. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Then, if this is the "de facto" policy of those who are in charge for making decisions for Ultima Online, that is that scripting is ok to do, why on earth don't they simply say it flat out ??.

    Why do players need to have a TOS where it says it is not legal, read Developers' posts where it says it is a no no but then see not much done about it ???

    Does it make any sense to anyone ??

    I'd much more prefer if this cheating would go away, I think in the long run Ultima Online would be a far much better game and if I remember all of the friends and fellow players who left UO in disgust because they had enough to play against fellow players who cheated that much in a game that did not seem to oppose cheating as it should, I think that perhaps a cheat-free UO would gain back more players than it would loose............but that's only how I think about it.

    Regardless, I could well live with cheating in UO but then, if this is the wish and desire of those who are in charge for the game, then the official policy should be changed and all players know that they can freely script without no harm done to their accounts.

    Or should we consider it as a "de facto" thing since not much is done to stop scripting and also from the link provided by another poster above that Game Masters no long intervene against cheaters in the game?

    The Policy has changed already? Perhaps not as text but in reality since hardly anything is being done to stop cheating in UO ?

    Is that so ?

    Can we PLEASE get to know it once and for all ?

    I mean, who is happy about this issue of cheating in UO being brought up all the time ?

    Just MAKE UP YOUR MIND ONCE AND FOR ALL !!!, you do not want cheating in UO ? Do something to stop it. You are fine with cheating in UO for fear of losing subscriptions ? Then CHANGE THE DAMN POLICY and make all players know that now cheating in UO is fine and free for all.

    Is it that hard to do ?? It would sure be much fairer to players and paying customers.......
     
  29. EvilPixieWorks

    EvilPixieWorks Lore Keeper
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    Camping nothing... if the staff wants to bust scripters... follow the trail of books being dropped advertising web sites that sell gold for real money by stealthers.

    Another clue... people who spam and gate to an establishment 20+ hours a day.

    And... then actually respond to pages about scripters without blowing them off with form responses from these GMs who refuse to use their names.
     
  30. pgib

    pgib Guest

    Scripting is a plain consequence of the fact that some in game activities are neither enjoyable or challenging, just time consuming.

    Less grinding, more fun and scripting won't be a necessary evil anymore.
     
  31. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Then, if I may ask, why is there an Official Policy which clearly states that these (as you call them...) "neither enjoyable or challenging, just time consuming" activities are not scriptable as this is a non allowed activity ?

    If there is anything in the game that justifies scripting, then why the damn Official policy is not changed for good making it legal for all players to script without any harm done to their accounts ?

    I am NOT saying (even though I would much prefer it...) that scripting should go, I am saying that "IF" scripting is not wanted to go, whatever the reasons, THEN, as a natural consequence of this CHOICE, the Official policy should be CHANGED and scripting be made Officially Allowed.

    Is this something so much difficult to do ? Just be CLEAR in what players are either not allowed OR not allowed to do.

    No scripting OR YES scripting but PLEASE, be CLEAR in what you want players to do once and for all about scripting !!!

    I just find it intolerable that we have an Official Policy which says NO but then the reality is different. This is a NONSENSE, IMHO.
     
  32. frostbolt

    frostbolt Seasoned Veteran
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    The answer to your question is very obvious. They do not make scripting officially "legal" because they need to keep up appearances.

    Seriously though, stop complaining about the scripters. They are the only reason why we have vendor search sites which i feel are absolutely necessary otherwise i would never be able to find anything i wanted to buy much less know if they even exist.

    Also they are like the only source of crafting resources on smaller shards, in fact i feel that we don't have enough resource scripters because i can't find anything at all these days when i need them. Without the scripters the game would be dead.
     
  33. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Do I want to catch scripters? No, I want to play UO.

    If I find a scripter I report them. I suggest you do likewise. This topic is closed.
     
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