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warrior/samuari only please :>

Discussion in 'UHall' started by SixUnder, Nov 6, 2010.

  1. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    well, i been back and forth between one of two templates on my main pk for yrs, and yrs upon yrs.

    tried the "new temp" with mystcism. i dont like it. heals from stone and pots to inconsistent and fighting way to many people at once to keep casting cleansing winds err whatever.....but rest of it is insane.. anyhow...

    barring the mystic overpowered yes i mean very overpowered skill.

    whats my fellow warriors playing these days? template wise is what im after almost got to have resist anymore, with sleep... "IMHO THE DUMBEST SPELL EVER MADE IN UO"...

    what are we playing these days? gimme some fun templates that yall have seen or think would be effective counters, etc..

    feedback welcome, warriors only please:>
     
  2. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    I dont play my warrior or bushido dexter or paladin anymore. because of mystics. just down to my necro mage mainly.
     
  3. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    well with no resist over the years post aos i was fine without it. could trap pouch or bo out of para and if i was mana vampiried i had enough regen to cover my but.

    problem is with sleep. everyone knows how overpowered mysticism is but in every gimp template this game has ever had there is a counter to it. just havet got the right idea with mystics yet.. but honestly i think evasion is the key.

    can apple only so much can remove curse only so much can only cleansing wind yourself only so much.

    i think im a have to go to my roots of some sort of nox/evasion type with resist though..thats the hard part:wall:
     
  4. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    yep i know. but what else can ya do ya know? specially when fighting outnumbered and there all mystics.. seems everyones a mystic, to easy and gimpy for me.
     
  5. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    yup if they undid most of the nerfs of the last 5 years things might actually be balanced in PvP
     
  6. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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  7. Does evasion work without parry? I use evasion with my sampire when faced with a hard hitting boss launching multiple attacks, but haven't tried it in pvp.
     
  8. RL'S pker

    RL'S pker Sage
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    100 swords-120 with captians hat.
    120 bushido
    120 resist
    120 healing
    100 parry
    90 tactics
    70 chiv-4/6 casting.

    This temp might work. I've not really tested it to see, but with evasion, apples, 4/6 chiv it could be a mystics worst nightmare. Plus maybe boost some skills with Plus jews/other items.
     
  9. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    In PvM a melee character has a lot of variety!

    They can be a paladin!
    Or a samurai/paladin!
    Or a necromancer/samurai/paladin!
    Or a paladin/paladin!
    Or a paladin/paladin/paladin!

    Not really, but I hate how they've made Chivalry mandatory for PvM melee in this game.
     
  10. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Good point haha, yeah most melee have chiv. But you dont absolutely have to have it. You can still get max damage without it with bushido / honor etc. I use alot of elemental weapons instead of consecrate weapon. Its not very useful for necros. Its an interesting skill, most spells have their drawbacks (enemy of one, cleanse by fire, divine fury)

    That being said i dont have any characters with the healing skill anymore. I heal with chiv if the gear / other skills of the character aren't quite enough.
    Chiv tamers were a fad for a little while. And yes i still have my old nox pally, he used to be great in pvp, hard to kill, holy light spammer, finished someone off with poison. Not viable anymore, but was really fun for a time.

    Melee pvp templates are almost always hybrids now. Some use archery, spellweaving is popular, ninjitsu, bushido is still usefull. Theres alot of combos, personally ive abandoned what i would call a basic warrior tho.
     
  11. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    If you only welcome warriors' opinions why didn't you post this in the warriors forum? DUH!
     
  12. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    There's very little anything in this game that isn't something else. But the fact is, consecrate weapon alone spanks pretty much anything else you care to name.

    Random example: The Shadow Knight in Doom has resists of 90/65/75/75/55. If two guys walk down there holding identical Blackthorn Krysses, then the guy casting consecrate is doing a whopping 450% more damage right off the top in comparison to the other guy. That's not 450% of weapon base damage or some other lame crap, that's not 450% subject to any property cap, that's a straight 4.5 points of damage unresisted for every 1 the other guy is doing.

    Sure some monsters have balanced resists. Sure the guy without Chivalry can maybe stock 400 different weapons with different combinations of slayer properties and elemental damages for every possible circumstance. But I have Bushido without Chivalry on a character, and all too often you find yourself going "Gee I'm hitting for 3, but if I never miss then Perfection may boost that to 6!" because the developers thought it was cute to give something 90 of one resist but 50 of another and your slayer weapon just happened to come up wrong.
     
  13. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    I just play a parry/resist/med dexer with skill increase to fit in 80 med. I have just about as much mana as I do stamina if that says anything.
     
  14. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    True, i and many others have a specific weapon for each kind of monster / peerless (which only became easily done because of imbuing) So for the new-ish player or one has never burned a ton of low level runics, consecrate weapon is still best.
     
  15. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    I'm willing to bet that the OP doesn't give two S's about PvM templates.
     
  16. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    You do realize that 70 Skill in Chiv is enough to make basically Full use of the skill (Anything you'd actually use consistently, outside of Light or Sac).

    With such little skill investment compared to How much Having Chiv can Upgrade your suit (/Overall), it would take a clueless individual to go without it for a PvM Based Template.
     
  17. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    Yes, you can dedicate your efforts toward gathering the materials to crank out a massive stock of high-end weapons for every conceivable encounter. Or you can just add Chivalry to your template. Guess which one everyone does.

    Whoops, now we're looping around the gauntlet and we're back to the Darknight Creepers. You did bring a fire damage undead slayer as well as an energy damage undead slayer, right? As well as a physical damage demon slayer for the Abyssmal Horrors and a fire damage demon slayer for the Impalers? I hope you didn't bring an Exiler for those Impalers, because the Exiler may be a demon slayer, but it's 100% energy damage and they're invincible to that.

    Gee, this is so much easier and better than just bringing a demon slayer, an undead slayer, and casting Consecrate Weapon. Odds are that without Chivalry you're just going to bring a couple of mixed-damage slayers, do really suboptimal damage to everything, and hope for the best.

    Fail. Even at 120 Bushido you'll need to fire off an average of five Lightning Strikes for a total of 25 mana to score one critical. (The non-critical Lightning Strikes aren't free.) Fire off an Armor Ignore every fifth swing for about the same cost and there you go. Sure you're not getting the hit chance bonus from Lightning Strike, but then again you're not stuck hitting for single digits the rest of the time because boss has 90% in one resist either.

    You're forcing me to bust out the math.

    Assume that Mr. Samurai is attacking the Shadow Knight with an undead slayer Blackthorn Kryss. Assume he has 100 tactics, 100 anatomy, and has already built up to max-level Perfection. Odds are he won't get to use Perfection AT ALL since only one person can use it on any given creature, any damage or even a strength buff prevents it, etcetera, but let's just pretend.

    His base damage will be 40 to 49. Let's assume he also hits for max damage, just because. Since he is hitting against the Shadow Knight's 90% physical resist, he will do... 5 points of damage. Wait, he's got a slayer weapon, I mean 10 points of damage. Woo we're cooking with gas now.

    Meanwhile Mr. Paladin also has 100 tactics, 100 anatomy, and is attacking with an identical Blackthorn Kryss. Since he's casting Consecrate Weapon, he's hitting against the Shadow Knight's 55% energy resist.

    Without Perfection he hits for 30 to 37 base damage, and to be fair we'll assume he hits for max as well. Since he's hitting against 55% resist, however, he's hitting for about 17 points of damage. Whoops, slayer weapon again, I meant 34 points of damage or almost three and a half times as much as Mr. Samurai hits for.

    And he hasn't even cast Enemy of One yet!

    "But Skrag, criticals! CRITICALS!"

    If we generously assume that Mr. Samurai has 120 Bushido, one out of every five Lightning Strikes will generate a critical hit. Since this critical will hit against an effective 0% resist, it should do 98 points of damage if we assume he keeps hitting for max.

    Wow, that's a lot. But wait, let's average it out. Our Samurai hits for 10 damage four times, and 98 damage once. That's a total of 138 damage. Meanwhile our Paladin has hit for a consistent 34 damage five times, a total of 170 damage.

    The Paladin is outdamaging the Samurai by a wide margin, even if the Samurai has 120 Bushido, gets the correct number of critical hits, builds up to max Perfection, never loses Perfection due to missing, and the Paladin is a giant idiot who forgets to cast Enemy of One.

    Once he does cast Enemy of One, this quits being a contest at all and becomes a joke.

    The only time the Samurai will outdamage the Paladin will be against a creature with resists equal across the board (Dark Fathers, and pretty much nothing else anyone cares about) but even that is dependent upon the Samurai getting a pristine and untouched Dark Father, then honoring it before anyone else does and before it can buff itself. Then as long as he never misses, Perfection should allow him to keep up with Enemy of One, with the criticals putting him ahead.

    Needless to say, this isn't terribly common or likely, and certainly isn't worth smacking things for 10 damage other times. Or 0 damage if you're the schmuck who brought an Exiler to the Impaler room.

    Yeah, you probably should, but not for the reasons you think.
     
  18. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    Exactly where is "Preference" in this part of the Post (Which is what kinda turns you around and puts you right on your Ass btw)

    "If we generously assume that Mr. Samurai has 120 Bushido, one out of every five Lightning Strikes will generate a critical hit. Since this critical will hit against an effective 0% resist, it should do 98 points of damage if we assume he keeps hitting for max.

    Wow, that's a lot. But wait, let's average it out. Our Samurai hits for 10 damage four times, and 98 damage once. That's a total of 138 damage. Meanwhile our Paladin has hit for a consistent 34 damage five times, a total of 170 damage."

    I'm seeing Numbers, Statistics, and Averages, not Preferences.. But hey, Maybe Im crazy.

    I'm guessing that, Realistically, you have No idea what you are talking about, and While you Did chime in to give your opinion in hopes of giving someone advice (Which is nice). That advice was completely wrong and therefore makes it useless.

    When this was pointed out to you, You fell back on the Classic "You arnt worth the Effort, but I totally Could" Argument and presented this facade of your Obvious superiority which In your mind translates to a sufficient enough argument on the subject. (Which is nothing but an illusion)

    That is all.
     
    Spock's Beard likes this.
  19. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    Yeah, that's what I did. I just came on here and called you names mindlessly. I didn't post a detailed and well-supported argument that you have no response to. Uh huh.

    It's called hitting the quote button and then getting up and eating dinner before completing and actually submitting the post. I do like this hint of conspiracy theory, though.

    Yeah, your "baw ur mean I quit" is totally as good as my detailed argument complete with examples backed up with math. And the mods totally go easy on me, because they love me. That's also why they give me magical powers that allow me to undelete posts.

    You didn't just get owned out of the thread, you're deleting your posts and fleeing in victory.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    I see no use for chiv on my necro dexter, (corpse skin instead of consecrate weapon) Lowering the fire and poison resist is always is at least equal to the monsters lowest resist, even better if the lowest resist is already fire or poison. I only use a few weapons, but all poison and fire elemental damage. And the theres the bad karma. I dont need the chiv heals, 4 other ways to heal without it.

    I know this is just one template, but one that there is really absolutely no need for chiv with just a little bit of specific gear, but every template requires specific gear.

    Just thought id mention it.

    Also, for pvp, chiv is useless on most templates. Consecrate used to be great in pvp, until imbuing which made 70s suits (alot use higher fire and poison resist too) I did use divine fury for a while when i was lazy but its really a no no, pots cause no dci loss.
     
  21. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    Yes, you can partially mitigate this imbalance in certain situations with a massive investment into very specific gear. You can accept that almost all the artifacts, all the crafted weapons that do physical damage, all the verite/agapite/whatever weapons that spread their damage out aimlessly across three or more elements, all of those are trash for your character.

    Is that a demon slayer with mana leech, life leech, swing speed, damage, and hit lower defense? It's even a sword, and you're a swordsman! Eureka! Oh wait, it's not heavily weighted in favor of one or two elemental types. Junk.

    Then once you've passed up the majority of high-end weapons to build your collection of fire and poison-based slayer weapons for each type of thing you want to kill, and made sure to carefully look up and remember which resist is lower for each of those monsters, you can cast Corpse Skin, succeed in getting Honor on your target, build up to max-level Perfection, hope this isn't an Abyssmal Horror or a Stygian Dragon or something else with high fire and poison resists...

    Or you can just cast Consecrate Weapon and forget that elemental damages/resists even exist in this game.

    Then cast Enemy of One and do more damage anyway regardless of what you're hitting. You'll probably be swinging a sweet slayer that the non-Paladin had to pass up because it was all cold damage or whatever too.

    I don't want you to take this argument as a flame, either. You're essentially playing PVM in hard mode and I appreciate that. But there's a reason every successful Sampire template you see makes room for Chivalry even though it's an extraordinarily cramped template.

    ALSO...

    We shouldn't lost sight of the fact that, outside of us few weirdos posting in this thread, pretty much every PVM-focused character that uses either Chivalry or Bushido uses both. I would not actually suggest that they nerf Chivalry, because melee is bad enough off in PVM as it is. Nor would I suggest that they just mindlessly buff Bushido (or whatever) in comparison, because that would just upset balance on the 90% of PVM melee that use both skills as well as mess up PVP.

    If it were up to me, I'd just give Bushido a new stance, one which mimics the effect of Consecrate Weapon. This would have the following effects.

    1) Non-Chivalry melee would become much more viable overall. It's not just bosses that have crazy resists. Go try poking a succubi with a physical damage demon slayer and no Consecrate and see what you get. It's pathetic.

    2) Melee who use both Chivalry and Bushido would largely ignore this new stance, since it would require them to turn off Evasion and they already have Consecrate Weapon anyway.

    3) PVP balance is left untouched.

    Alternatively, a lower-powered version of this stance would be one which changes all damage to chaos damage. This would be markedly inferior, but at least prevents those "Argh I can't hit for more than 3 damage ever!" moments.

    You're really on a roll. Now to use my magic powers to read your posts anyway! MUAHAHAHA! Oh wait...
     
  22. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    I was wondering what was going on. I kept seeing NO TEXT also and thought something was wrong on my end lol
     
  23. Annonymous User

    Annonymous User Journeyman
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    FTW !
     
  24. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    Well you could try engaging my arguments in a useful manner.
    Or you could concede that you underestimated the damage and move on.
    Alternatively, you could just quit posting "no text" all over the place.

    Hahaha, oh wow, you DID delete most of your posts. Oh man, I need some third party input. Would anyone else here delete themselves from Uhall in the face of my Math Attack, or would you just go "cool story bro, glad I picked chiv" and move on with your life? Because I don't think I actually owned him hard enough for all of this.

    [​IMG]

    Anyway moving on...

    Thanks! I'm really loathe to suggest complex solutions to problems that aren't crushing, though. The developers are really overworked, and I'm sure adding a new spell to this game's creaky structure isn't something you do in five minutes for no reason.

    So I have a small, less effective, but much simpler alternative: You add items all the time, devs. Add a cloak or sash or some such to the game which changes all of the wearer's damage into chaos damage. The item property already exists on the Quiver of Elements, it simply doesn't apply to melee damage. There are enough stat cloaks and sashes in the game now that equipping it won't be a no-brainer.

    Heck in certain cases wearing the cloak would be a nerf, but at least it's an option.
     
  25. Annonymous User

    Annonymous User Journeyman
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    Not to de-rail this thread or anything, but I just wanted to point out that one of the best things about UO's itemization is that when they do release gear it is not so ridiculously over powered compared to the previous gear. IE: Every new expansion in the newer MMOS totally obsoletes gear from the prior and in some case items rendering your hard work null. UO for the most part stays away from this.
     
  26. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    Two different design philosophies. Without increasingly powerful gear patched into the game every couple months like clockwork, a game like WoW would collapse in on itself in short order. Getting items pretty much IS the game, and without new items to get the game would falter.

    The main problem in a game like that is that the items don't really seem to ever DO ANYTHING. A newbie sword adds +1 strength and an uber sword adds +100 strength. There are no life-leeching fireballing swords or the like in WoW, except for maybe a few ludicrously rare legendary items.

    UO items are inflating though. Go look at the stats on the original Doom artifacts versus those on the latest SA arties.
     
  27. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Chiv sucks on my necro dexter. (not my sampire) I tried it and its a waste of 70 skill. the spells last for about a second. id rather use my casting time to dish out necro spells. he kills stuff just fine with 3 minions, armor ignore, necro spells, and a few weapons. (only costs maybe 100k to burn out a low level runics to make base weapons to imbue)

    i do miss sacred journey but thats about it.
     
  28. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    You need to farm and maintain karma if you're going to use chivalry. It's pretty trivial to go to the Fan Dancer Dojo and mow down succubi for a little while and farm up a load of karma.
     
  29. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    good karma would destroy the rp status of the character. plus the mana regen i from med i would lose would outway the benefit. Evil Warrior ftw !
     
  30. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I find it odd you keep deleting your content for a lot of your posts, nearly everyone single on in this thread.
    You know, if you go under "Go Advanced" tab when editing you can delete the entire post and not just the content, right?
     
  31. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    your right this is a pvp thread dont care about pvm, ever.

    what kind of template is the one with med?

    pm if ya dont wanna blast it on here.
     
  32. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    That's the same reason I go without! :D

    My buddy uses chiv though, and the difference is pretty striking.

    He didn't just delete his posts here, he deleted all his Uhall posts back through like September. One at a time.
     
  33. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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  34. Emosocial

    Emosocial Guest

    you are the one talking about playing a no resist dexer/archer for "years and years", yet now that mages (with mysti) can compete with gimp dexers/archers you say that its too easy and gimpy for you ?

    I laugh in your general direction, captain hypocrite.



    While you are at it, change your sig, you have not been a welcome member of the real $C$ for years.

    Pathetic.
     
  35. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    So I haven't gotten into Mysticism since I've been back. Is it more a warrior thing, or a mage thing? Because mages have needed some love for a while now.
     
  36. Emosocial

    Emosocial Guest

    more of a mage thing. There were a few gimps that were running nerve striking mystics, but I believe that they are being nerfed soon.