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Ways to bring veterans back to UO...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by eekamouse, Apr 5, 2010.

  1. eekamouse

    eekamouse Guest

    I got to thinking about this yesterday, when I was reading about the devs (hopefully) fixing the 3rd party cheat programs in an upcoming publish. I also found myself reading about Classic shards. A "classic" or "hybrid" shard seems like it would be good for the community as a whole, but especially good for any veterans that longingly troll the forums once every few months, but just can't bring themselves to re-up their subscription.

    So I started to brain storm and come up with some ideas that might be worth discussing...

    1) Fix 3rd party apps [REMOVED]... I don't consider the "free UOA" a cheat app, and I think that allowing it (possibly with some mods to it) would be a good gesture to vets.

    2) A classic shard or possibly some kind of "hybrid" rule set. I think this has been beat to death, but one or two shards (at least) would fill up quickly, if done correctly.

    3) If there was a classic or "hybrid" shard of sorts, it would be nice if the economy could be controlled somehow. What do I mean by controlled? Well... by having zero gold sellers. Impossible? Maybe. But, a Fel ruleset would go along way to getting rid of gold sellers. Maybe even a Fel-only shard that still had Factions controlling resources. I don't know. Something new. Not just a "pick a random publish and go" shard.

    4) Allow players' veteran rewards to be based on their account's creation date and not their active time. This would allow vets to come back and get a few non-game-breaking goodies. Sort of a welcome back gift of sorts. This would only apply to existing non-Siege shards, imo.

    It sounds like the first two are at least being looked at, which is a good sign.

    But, I think the engine is there to do some creative things to entice long time vets and new players alike.
     
  2. ProZac

    ProZac Seasoned Veteran
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    The oldschool shard just needs to be done already. We've been talking about it since they gave us AoS, and hopefully it happens. It looks like they did it with DAOC (Mythic's original MMO), so I don't see why they'd hold back.

    Wouldn't mind seeing the other things you mentioned happen. Though we'd probably just see a huge influx in vet rewards and not a ton of players actually coming back.
     
  3. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I must disagree with this as it would just make it pointless the main aspect, IMHO, of the Veterans Rewards Prgram : incentives to players to maintain their accounts as active and so, provide much needed resources to the game.

    I do agree, though, with giving a sound welcome to returning players.

    What could be done, is a "welcoming token" with different, new items which can be picked from an entire new list of "welcoming back" items.

    This new list should be done taking into account creation age of account AND time the account have been active overall as a percentage of the entire life of Ultima Online with more weight being given to the active life as compared to the registration time.

    That is, 2 accounts with same active age but different registration time the one with the oldest registration time will get to have better pick.

    But if an account is older as far as registration but was active for a considerable shorter time than a younger account, well, in this case the older account but for less active time should not get better picks.

    Anyways, I am OK with some form of welcome back to Veterans but NOT if this destroys the appeal of the Veteran Rewards Program to have players maintain their accounts as active.

    I think it is VERY important for the game to send a message out to players that ACTIVE account time is paramount to be rewarded by the game owners because it is account active time that keeps the game afloat and ensures resources for new content to be added....

    Players have to know that what matters most is keeping their accounts active, as far as any type of prize, reward, gift is concerned.
     
  4. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Yes, I totally agree popps.

    Veteran players are the dairy cattle of the game, to be milked for all they are worth. If they're willing to submit to that year after year for the mere promise of an annual toy then they should be venerated as the critical revenue source they are.

    That said, we clearly have enough veterans as it stands. I think we should close the door on those who turned their back on the game and strip all inactive accounts of their account age. Reset them to zero, for they contribute zero to the game.

    Perhaps even go as far as to permanently ban all inactive accounts, or maybe reactivate those with valid credit cards against the wishes of the account holders and simply don't tell them. Just imagine how much more money that would bring in. And we all know how difficult it is to rectify a billing error with EA, so they could easily get away with it for months. It could be worth millions.
     
  5. Another Lamer

    Another Lamer Journeyman
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    A lot of Vets who left, would probably say that the game turned the back of them with the introduction of AoS. A lot had concerns over this patch but noone actually listened to them. In terms of them contributing to the game, most vets have several accounts that they keep active.......this actual keeps the game running through subscriptions.
    Comming from a UO player who at one stage ran 5 accounts.......I PAY the subscription and if i want to play I will.
    I contribute to the running and profitability of UO, which in turn keeps the game running......which in turn allows you to post rediculas and almost insulting comments about Vets on these boards.........

    You really do talk ****.


    Maybe you should be banned!
     
  6. dum3886

    dum3886 Guest

    Just a little addition.. a lot of us "vet troller" actually have played the new UO... i subscribed again between 2007-2009...yes i havn't played SA... but i was there up to the rubble event... population on my shard just became too crap for me to keep playing... if anyone wants to know go to oceania... unless 100 new people have joined.. it is quite empty.. 99% of the ppl r fricken afker bank sitters.

    I think the only way for this game to return to its former glory is through a radical change... CLassic UO may be a failure but it may not be. Give it a shot.. the game is dying and everyone knows it.
    Wikipedia states 2006 250,000 subscribers... the latest figures i saw was about 125,000 with over 50% in japan...

    Give the game one last chance to survive till the next decade!
     
  7. Guido_LS

    Guido_LS Seasoned Veteran
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    You don't get sarcasm, I guess...
     
  8. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The second part of my post was not readable or understandable perhaps ?

    I think I said it quite clearly that I would favour a form of welcoming Veteran players back to Ultima Online, only, not at the expense of the Veteran Rewards Program.

    There is a ton of possible ways to show appreciation to returning Veteran Players such as for example with free playing time, a welcoming token as I suggested, perhaps even the ability to claim an artifact of choice if the returning Veteran stays with the re-opened account as active 3+ months (of which, at least 2 of them 3 months paid by the returning player...).

    I just do not think that destroying the Veteran Rewards Program appeal to maintain accounts as active to earn Veteran Rewards would be the best way to welcome returning Veteran Players.

    They closed their accounts as compared to all other Veterans who kept them open and paid for them, thus supporting Ultima Online to keep going and be here today, so that the returning players can still go back to play it.

    Players who closed their accounts, and players who kept them active and paid for them dealt with Ultima Online in 2 different ways and, therefore, should never be treated alike as far as Veteran Rewards go.

    This is my opinion.
     
  9. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    As much as it pains me to say it, I kinda agree with Popps... I mean if your account goes inactive due to you quiting for over a certain period of time... I kinda think you should loose your vet status. I mean... I think vets should be rewarded for supporting the game, and those who don't... well there's no reason they should be rewarded since they're no longer supporting the game.

    Now I know this will never happen, specially since it'll screw with ethey's not being usable on the account that claimed them. But I support the idea, to a degree.
     
  10. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    I get sarcasm...I liked your post...I LOLed IRL.

    I think there should be a national sarcasm support society for people like us.

    We could use this as our Tag Line:

    And we need your support...why??

    :)

    I love it way too much...:thumbup1:

    I do not agree that we should give rewards based solely on how long ago a person had signed up for UO.

    It is the current Revenue Producers (RP) People we need to care about. They are the critical resource providers...

    Screw the ship jumpers...let them find their own MMO!!!
     
  11. T2A Classic Shard FTW!
     
  12. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    The population on some shards have dwindled down to nothing. If they could do what they did with DaoC making clusters where people could continue having their houses( since we all know thats a big issue with merging shards). Then it would help the smaller populated shards out. Now if they made just a classic shard you may see a big movement of current players and may make some old vets return.

    In todays world vesus Pre-AOS there is to much competition and gaming has changed. Leveling took over skill gaining. Micro transaction games are much cheaper in some sense because you buy what you really want without a monthly subscription. We all know what hurt the game and they are finally up to fixing it. Hopefully it will bring some back.
     
  13. eekamouse

    eekamouse Guest

    Ya I thought about this, but I think that just inflates the active account numbers. Probably by not very much but it does.

    I figure, "Why introduce a whole new set of items, that existing counts won't have access to?" That would irritate existing players even more.

    It's not like vet rewards are game breaking, and it would give long time absentee vets something to entice them. If nothing else, the returning players could sell the vet reward items to the existing cash heavy active accounts and help the returning player get started back in the game.
     
  14. If EA wants to entice vets to come back, they need to offer them what they really want...Old UO in the form of a Classic Shard!

    Offering people items, after they left the game because it became too item based...not the best idea. rolleyes:
     
  15. popps

    popps Always Present
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    What good does it do to mistreat an existing customer to please a perspective one, albeit a returning one ?

    What I am trying to say, is that it is dead wrong, IMHO, to treat active accounts and accounts that were terminated just the same.

    Players who kept playing for the game dealt with Ultima Online differently that players who stopped their subscriptions.

    Considering these accounts now, the same one thing, cannot be the right thing to do, IMHO.

    Especially, when a whole lot of other ways can be thought and used to welcome returning players.

    Making a new list of items specific for returning players is too much work ?

    Fine, then make it available for returning players with at least a certain age of active account, the ability to selectively pick an artifact of their choice + also a free month of game play upon returning.

    Only one condition, before being able to pick the artifact they got to pay for 2 more months on top of the one they get for free......

    And yes, if they pay right away, upon re-subscribing, they sure can pick their artifact right away.

    Artifacts already exist, active, playing veterans most likely already have them, so it would not be much trouble allowing returning players to pick an artifact.

    Of course, the returning player should at least be able to sport a decent active time account to avoid few months dummy accounts to be used to get artifacts a go-go.

    This is also the reason for the condition to pay for at least 2 months, to reward players actually returning to the game and not just provide an easy way to free artifacts....
     
  16. eekamouse

    eekamouse Guest

    I agree. But, those vets won't come back to an existing shard. Imo, the vets are missing out on some fun, in the Stygian Abyss.

    I agree that a Classic Shard should be created, and I will happily jump onto them if it ever comes into existence. But, I think you could get some vets back and playing on the existing shards through some kind of incentive/marketing effort.

    You could even do it in steps.

    First step: Fix hacking.
    Second step: Unlock vet rewards (or whatever)
    Third step: Create two new shards.

    I also just want to say. I hate this idea of a "Classic" shard the more I think about it.

    I think a kind of "hybrid" shard is the way to go. There are problems inherent in UO's design, and the design of MMO's in general for that matter. I think there is room there to do something unique with the UO engine over any other engine.
     
  17. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    I don't care if you've been playing since day one of the UO beta, You're no better than me just because I took a 3 year break a few years back. Creating a class system based on paid game time is no way to run an MMO. All subscribers, regardless of account age or paid time, should be treated the same. There's no place for segregation in an online game.
     
  18. I use the term "Classic Shard" to represent an idea...not necessarily to point to a specific publish from the past.

    I am very open to a 'hybrid' shard, as long as it doesn't contain any of the following:

    - Trammel, or any sort of PvP switch
    - AoS in any visible form
    - Any of the expansions after 3rd Dawn
    - Artifacts, Uber rares, Imbuing, etc.
    - Neon colors
    - Insurance
    - Power scrolls
    - Skill enhancing items
    - Zero risk game play

    The rest is pretty much all details to me. I don't care if there is custom housing or not. I don't care if there is house deco or not. I don't care if there are stat/skill locks...x number of lockdowns in houses vs. y number of lock downs in houses...pet control slots...dismounting...and much more.

    What I think would draw veteran players back to the game would be a fresh start on a shard that looked and played like any of the old shards before UO:R. Sure, there would need to be some new features carried over, and many bug fixes...but most of the people I know (and I know a lot) that quit UO did so because of 2 things...Trammel and AoS.

    Well, that's not entirely true...I know an awful lot of people that quit UO because of EverQuest as well...but those people are a different story.
     
  19. eekamouse

    eekamouse Guest

    Yep. I think we're on the same page there.

    What I would also like to see is the skills work in their updated forms, and the devs possibly revisiting "useless" skills like Forensic Eval, Camping, or w/e. (Yes, I know they aren't "entirely" useless", but still).

    I'm also not sold on the idea that Powerscrolls are a bad thing. Maybe they are. I don't really care either way, but Champ Spawns are friggin awesome. And, I would love to have them implemented in some form.

    The "classic" shard should implement some kind of high end PvMvP :)

    Here's something else. What if you just have Felucca and Ilshenar, but both "facets" have the Fel ruleset?
     
  20. This has been debated in the Classic Shard thread...


    ...but I will re-state my opinion on that:


    I think that in the beginning, a Classic Shard should be small...just the original lands, and maybe the Lost Lands from T2A. Just because it will force more player interaction. But, of all the expansion lands, I would welcome Ilshenar most, assuming the population of the shard was thriving.

    I hate the way current UO has spread the population so thinly. Limiting landmass is the only method of keeping the people together.

    I think Powerscrolls were a bad idea because they created disparity between players. The old school system UO had, where everyone had an equal chance without need billions of gold, was far preferable to what we have now, and I believe Powerscrolls and runic crafting tools were the foundation for the ruined system we see today.

    I do like the idea of champ spawns, as long as the loot that results from it does not imbalance the game. There should be rewards for defeating champ bosses, but not in a manner that would cause massive inflation or itemization.

    Also...I don't know which skills you are referring to exactly, but I will say this:

    I would not enjoy a Classic Shard that included all the post-AoS skills (Bushido, Chiv, Necro, etc)...but I do think that skills that enhance other skills, like anatomy for fighting skills, and eval int for magery, was a good idea. In the really old days, everyone was a tank mage. Everyone wore plate, carried a halberd, and still used magic. The addition of complementary skills did a lot to diversify the character types you saw, without creating 'templates' or 'classes'...which I really hate.
     
  21. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    Moongates that allow travel between shards.

    Resynch all the shard to be just that; shards of a single gem with gateways between them.

    Reformat the servers into one huge inter-linked system.

    Then Atlantic could kill Pacific could kill Mujin could kill Seige P could kill XXX.

    No more dram for the cleaning crew maintaining cvarious servers. Just one huge server.

    Face it, UO is dying from lack of infusion/creativity/care/concern/maintenance/exploits and so forth. There are better FREE browser games out there now. Not rancor, just observation.

    I like the game, I play occassionally and I will keep one account active until they close the doors.
     
  22. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    Oh yes, one more thing, add a slot for monster play.

    You pop in and you are a lower level monster.

    You grow stronger until you die.

    Then you restart as a lower tier monster (initially- read on).

    You have no loot that remains when you die (stops multiaccount farming).

    Players cannot gain in skill when fighting you.

    You, as a monster, are a part of the Matrix.

    You CAN grow in skills.

    You get a copy of whatever gear the player you killed had, even if insured. (Player resses with normal insurance except perhaps the lose of one random item forever....muhahahaha.)

    You can kill other mobs.

    You can die and restart.

    And here's the rub, each time you gain you get a tiny portion of skills that enable you to move up the moster tiers so they add to your next monster based on the level your previous monster was (skill-wise).

    So eventually you could potentially be reborn as a Dragon for example.

    And I forgot to add, you can travel away from your spawn area but you get weaker (the lower you are, dragons travel further) the farther from home you are.
     
  23. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    I disagree. There is plenty of roon for segregation. You see it everyday. Dupers. People who BUY gold on-line. Hackers.

    Lots of things that make their toons horribly more Overpowered than I, a fair noncheater, can hope to attain.

    And if I have paid my subscription dutifully for the past 11 years and you have had breaks in service why should I not gain some loyalty perk?

    In your example you were off for 36 months.

    36 x $10 = $360.

    Is that not worth something? I suggest it is indeed.

    Sorry to rain on your parade but you left. I did not. Even when UO was unplayable I still payed and helped keep it afloat. You did not.

    Your example is like saying "You know, I planted two apple trees 10 years ago and I left the unattended and they died. But the two you planted at the same time and tended have lived, so gimme some of your apples."

    Your turn to fire back if you desire of course.
     
  24. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    QFT
     
  25. popps

    popps Always Present
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    It is not about being better or worse, it is about being supportive to the brand/product.

    Maintaining an account as active even when taking breaks from the game, even when being upset at the game, means supporting the game in the hope to see better times.

    Closing the account, simply means not supporting the game any longer, IMHO.

    I do not see why players who kept being supportive to the game should be seen just like those who ceased their support to the game at some point.

    I am fine 100% to offering free months, welcoming tokens, an artifact to pick or other alternate ways of welcoming returning players.

    I am NOT fine with making the Veteran Rewards Program pointless to favour returning players.

    One thing is the Veteran Reward Program, an entire other thing should be whatever marketing policy wants to be created to favour the return of old players.
     
  26. eekamouse

    eekamouse Guest

    This convinces me my 4th idea is wrong in specificity, but not in spirit.

    My main reason for brining up the idea of Vet rewards unlocked per account creation date was to give "something" to entice returning vets that would be useful, but not game-breaking. But, I can see how that sort of slaps people in the face that have been supporting the game through it's rough patches.

    However, I still think something close to this is necessary, or the original shards will be even more of a barren wasteland than they are now if/when/ever/probablynot they make a "classic" shard. I'll still play on both. I've got 7 almost finished characters on my original shard, but a "classic" shard or three would probably decimate the existing shards.

    I don't want to get TOO hung up on the classic shard discussion, but it should definitely be a part of the discussion on how to get vet players (and new players) back.
     
  27. omgmir

    omgmir Guest

    Outside of a classic shard you're not getting vet players back to UO. Other games have too much to offer, if you're looking for PvM UO can't even begin to compete. If you're looking for the old school PvP it's long gone, replaced with insurance and neon colors.

    IPY and other free shards of that type can attest to how popular a classic shard would be, and the only reason they failed was because of the people running them and the resources available to them. If Mythic put one out and fully supported it with anti-cheat measures etc.. there's no limit to how much it could revitalize this game.
     
  28. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    So because Richie Rich has the extra income to waste paying for a game he's not playing he should be rewarded over Joe Sixpack who had to take some time off because continuing to pay for UO meant stretching his already thin budget even thinner, and possibly meant other bills wouldn't get paid?

    Oh yeah, sounds fair to me. rolleyes:

    Sugarcoat it all you want, a system like you describe it is a class system. Vet rewards should not be (and to most people's way of thinking are not really) an incentive to continue paying/playing. Rather it's a thank you gift for the time you have spent as a subscriber.

    It's not always as black and white as wanting or not wanting to play. Sometimes it's a matter of not having the funds, a soldier who get's deployed to someplace where playing UO isn't possible, a new parent who not only has less money, but much less time while caring for a newborn.

    Bottom line is that pixel crack is not going to make most players come back. You have to fix (if possible) the problem that caused them to leave. As far as I'm concerned the current reward system is working just fine, no need to do anything to it.
     
  29. eekamouse

    eekamouse Guest

    Actually I change my mind. I think th Vet Rewards SHOULD be given to returning old accounts.... no question!!

    Why? To quote my friend, "Those vets left the game and voted with their wallet. If any changes have been done, it's because those vets left. Just give the current subscribers another 5x choices or something."

    I see that point.
     
  30. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Out of curiosity, has ever an estimate been done of how many players of Ultima Online are scattered around the world playing free shards ??
     
  31. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Offer them a discounted subscription price for a month or two.
     
  32. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    leave my purple hair alone!
     
  33. Estimates - yes.

    Hard numbers - no.


    Any number anyone quotes here will be immediately shouted down by AoS/Tram fanbois...so don't bother.
     
  34. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Regardless what made a player unsubscribe and stop playing the game, the bottom line is, they stopped paying the subscription and, consequentially, they stopped supporting the game.

    This is the very bottom line of it and hardly disputable, IMHO.

    The reason for unsubscribing is irrelevant, IMHO, what is relevant is ending the financial support to the game by unsubscribing....

    As far as the Veteran Reward Program working as an incentive to keeping accounts active even during short breaks, I am not saying that it is the only one reason.

    But, added on top of other reasons, it "helps" some players making up their mind to maintain the account active even while not playing the game because of short breaks away from it. This plus that plus that can tip the mind of a player to decide in favour of maintaining the account as active even when taking a short break from it.
    This means more safe revenues in favour of the game...

    This is nothing new in business. It is rewarding loyalty to brands/products and, in various forms, businesses often do it to prize customers who have been supportive to their brand/product.

    Ultima Online is a business product. Perhaps more complex than many others but nonetheless, it is a product which consumers purchase like many others.

    Therefore, I would imagine that marketing policies rewarding loyalty to the brand/product just work for UO as they work for a whole lot of other business products out there........
     
  35. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    I don't think there's been a detailed comparison of official versus non-official shard populations. EA don't release the figures for the official servers any more and there's so many free servers around, it would take a long time to get a true figure.

    The best "guess" is to look at the server statistics of the most popular free servers, how many players are online at any given time, versus what you see on the official servers.

    It's interesting to note though, having looked at a couple of the most popular pre-AoS themed free servers, is that they seem to be more populated than some of the most populated official servers. Perhaps that gives some indication.

    Obviously it's perhaps unfair to make direct comparisons, simply because one option is subscription based, whilst the other is free. You have to consider that some people don't want to pay for subscriptions and never will.

    In favour of an "official" classic server or two from EA/Mythic though I am, clearly they're only going to head down this route if they are fully confident they can draw sufficient former subscribers back. I say former subscribers, because I think they would far outweigh "fresh" new players, who've never played UO before.
     
  36. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    I'm not sure what you're getting at, but the vet reward system is based on the amount of active months you've paid for. It doesn't matter if they go inactive or not. Having a negative consequence for those going inactive isn't going make things better.
     
  37. bjornef

    bjornef Guest

    well why give them any thing just tell them abouth all the new cool stuff in uo and that alone shood be enuf of a reward if you ask me
     
  38. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Many of them simply do not want that. They want to play UO the way it used to be.
     
  39. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    So we should punish them because they stopped paying. Even if it was something totally out of their control that caused it. Got it.

    Yes, reward brand loyalty. I'm all for that, but don't reward one group in a manner that is unfair to someone who was forced to quit for a time because of something beyond their control.
     
  40. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    No one should have negative consequences for any reason if their account goes inactive. It's just bad business and a bad idea.
     
  41. What about house decay?


    ...and be careful how you answer ;)
     
  42. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    You're right, I phrased that poorly.

    I was referring to Popps posts.
     
  43. bjornef

    bjornef Guest

    this days in fel euro you can get free 18 18 houses in good locations is that not reward enuf you can even buy a castle or keap for penuts
     
  44. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    That'd almost be enough except not everyone that is gone plays a euro shard. Especially the ones that aren't that active.
     
  45. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    popps why don't u go log on to as many as u can find and report!!

    we have lives you are a board troll i bet if you did you would receive gold for the effort as doing would take tame away from us!! i would toss a few million into per week!!!
     
  46. bjornef

    bjornef Guest

    well then tell them to come euro then lots of werdos and lunitics here to keap any one happy for years to come we even got a ton of ladys and girls playing here what more can a guy want
     
  47. Cal_Mythic

    Cal_Mythic Guest

    I had a really long reply to this thread ... instead I will say I am watching with rapt attention :)
     
  48. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Well that was a productive post. Using punctuation other than the exclamation point is also helpful.
     
  49. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    If you have to ask, I don't think I really want to answer.
     
  50. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    Exactly. Popps seems to believe that accounts that were closed (for whatever reason) should not get the same benefits as those who have been paying straight along.
    Rewarding someone who never closed their account is a slap in the face to those people who were forced to close their accounts for a period of time.

    If I were in that situation it would be like EA saying "Sorry you lost your job and couldn't afford UO for 6 months. See Richie Rich over there? The guy who's paid for 144 months straight on his father's credit card but has done nothing but play WoW and badmouth UO for the last 3 years? Yeah, well for being such a good customer we're giving him some nice reward. But you had hard times and couldn't afford to be a good customer, so you're not getting jack. Sorry about your luck. Maybe next time you'll think twice before putting needs before wants."

    The current system is fine. If you paid from 1997 to 2000 then quit and started again in 2004 and kept paying you should be rewarded for 9 years. The same reward as the guy who started back in 2001 and has been playing 9 years straight. He's not any better than you because he never took a break.

    Can't seem to get popps to understand that though.