1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

We don't need a CLASSIC SHARD, just implement the old...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Velvathos, Mar 8, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Velvathos

    Velvathos Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    159
    Okay, I just need to get this off my chest because it is driving me insane seeing all these classic shard threads.. :gee: So I will be putting to rest the whole "We need a classic shard" and help give everyone a new direction to fight for..

    First off, what was so great about CLASSIC UO? I will tell your right now that it wasn't the fact that you could PVP anywhere and then take all that phat loot after killing your opponent! What you do miss is some of the old game mechanics! Am I right? :)

    Diminishing Returns: This should have and could have been implemented and when you think about it, it would have GREATLY made the game less item based and leveled out the playing feel.... But.. But when the time came everyone ambushed it.. Good job guys! :thumbsup: And might I remind everyone that we have had some of the older mechanics put BACK in, because we suggested and agreed on it, and the developers listened, an example is the stat system, we argued that the old "sea-saw stat system" needed to come back and it did.. Let's take a look at some of the "GOOD" that has been added in since the release of Age of Shadows..

    1.The New Guild System
    2.Custom Housing
    3.Gating From Facet to Facet
    4.The Current Skill and Stat System
    5.Insurance

    Let's look at some of the old that we WANT back in..

    1.House Keys(I think some people would lose their house keys) Which is why this is no longer around.)

    2.Moonstones.. Yes, while we can gate and recall from Trammel to Felucca.. It was nice because you could make yourself a gate from the spot from where you were, straight to Fel, without having to travel..

    3.Armor and crafting: I am going to argue about this for quite a bit. It was better during the Pre-AoS days, I won't lie.. I have been playing quite a few MMO's lately and I will tell you my thoughts. Artifacts were a "GOOD IDEA" many online games have name based items, World of Warcraft is a example, you see a specific item you want and you let yourself work for that item.. What was bad for UO in my opinion was not runics however, it was the random item generator that happened when you crafted items.. There should have been NO random properties on items from crafting.. Sure, there was no problem with runics, but nothing should have came out with random item properties on it.. A list of specific "name based" items would have been better.. Imbuing actually helped solve this to some degree..

    Lastly.. Mage armor is baaad, and it should be gone.. Metal armor should be made for tanks and mage armor should be made for casters and mages.. It was like this during the Pre-AoS days.. Heavy armor was no benefit for mages, it slowed down their casting, gave you minus strength and dex, but offered much more protection than leather armor, it was a situation where mages had to sacrifice that protection for leather armor.. Warriors benefited from metal armor more than leather, cause well? They didn't get penalized for wearing it like they do now(leather armor is better than metal armor for all classes of characters) A mage was able to deal a great amount of damage to those without that metal armor.. It was a even playing field between tanks and mages.. It STILL can be..

    4. Guild Stones: While I love the current guild system, I miss the old one just as much, guild stones should still exist, but mostly for show.. It was actually through guild stones that created player towns, I remember when I ran a guild in Minoc, it was where the guild stone was, at my tower in Minoc, and we always played around that area because that is where the stone was, you brought members there to recruit them, and it became a situation where we built around that area, everyone would become friended to the house, and we would have meet ups there..

    5. Friendly fire: I don't need to explain myself to argue as to why friendly fire should be turned back ON! :gun:

    6. Order & Chaos.. Sure why not? I didn't see a reason it should have been taken out, it was like factions without the penalties and we were able to fight in any facet.. But there was no benefits either or real goal to aim for like you could with factions..

    So there you have it, I named 5 good things about the current UO and 6 good things about the old UO.. Combine the two together, and most players would get their wish.. The biggest issue which we face is with the game being too item-based, to go back to old ways, the only solution is diminishing returns in my opinion and that would be just a start..
     
  2. wow.
    IBTL Post count!!
     
  3. Argoas

    Argoas Guest

    insurance a good feature? tock toc, is there someone? hellow? Sanitarium?
     
  4. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Theres too much to comment on. But I'll just comment on the diminishing return part. It was and still is a horrible idea. Sure if the game was only pvp it would work. But when you going against a 100k hit point monster and you only have 1 method of healing because in order to go against that monster you need all the skills you can muster you can see where where diminishing returns fails horribly. Lets not mention the fact that pvm is about fighting the same monsters over and over for a very extended period of time. You going to be healing over and over for the same amount of time. What people going to do say hold up I already fought too much to heal guess i come back tommoroow or bank sit for the rest of the day? Once again this is not a pvp game centric game. It's a RPG. With twice or more the number of non pvp only players than pvp players.

    The rest of the things said like metal armor,mage armor you would need to to get rid of mana based dexter skills and specials like back in the old days so armor like that count. These days dexter and mages need all 3 stats as high as possible to be effective. Don't forget tank mages etc.. We didn't just have a mage and a dexter. There were no classes in UO just your imagination on the skills you could combine.
     
  5. Actually, what I miss is being able to loot all that is on the player.


    That fact kept it balanced.

    I still see no point in PvP. For the sake the same guy I killed. Yes I have killed a few. Is right back up not 5 minutes later.


    What I want is a land that has everything and more but if you die, you lose all your crap. And if you die, you are weaker.


    There has to be a price to death, and there no longer is.


    Now I do think moonstones should be implemented again. So you can enter anywhere without skill. Plus they are cool.
    It should really be a fractured world that isnt open to cross gating or recalling but only to moonstones.

    But hey... I want random adventure. Who am I.
     
  6. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,377
    Likes Received:
    183
    I think they should still let you be able to loot people anywhere when their corpse turns to bones. I always got nice loot from that.
     
  7. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,519
    Likes Received:
    2,909
    So basically you want the game exactly how it is... but without mage armor, and with guild stones, and house keys... Visionary.

    And FYI metal armor never hurt casting. Tank mages (read: 75% the population) wore plate all the time. The only time they stopped is when special leather was introduced, and gave about the same protection as plate but was easier to get. All it ever did was lower dex and that didnt matter to casters.
     
  8. red sky

    red sky Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    7
    If I remember correctly, it was near impossible to solo a balron in old school UO, so the diminishing returns should be correct in what it does. Also, don't you have a sampire? They don't even heal, they just use leeches to solo stuff. Therefore, your point is moot sir. Have a nice day.
     
  9. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Insurance, debatable item I am not even going to touch the topic.

    UOKaiser, Diminishing returns would not affect pvm in the way you described at all, using bandaids would not be subject to "diminish" any other method of "healing" should be. I am not a fan of "single player" play, not that I would wish to force anyone to play in an "mmo" environment but hey we do play one still, right?

    Raven, Seige.....yea exactly what you asked for is on siege....you can loot them dry.

    OP, what you posted is not what people really miss, even tho there is a fair amount of new game mechanics that are good and improved over the old systems does not really matter.
     
  10. Velvathos

    Velvathos Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    159
    Ahh, those were the days.. To be able to constantly solo in PvE is not a good thing, I agree with this.. MMO's should be about grouping to take down the highest levels of creatures and NPC's, when someone says they can solo the doom run it makes me cringe..
     
  11. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    I agree with alot of this since day 1 of AoS I would hope they would get to this point. I just wished it would of been alot sooner or the designs would of been different. I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I am tedious and will work on the smallest detail for hours. Just the words mage armour do not go together. I remember right after they ran the property swap, I saw that mage armour and it just upset me. All of a sudden Merlin was wearing a heavy plate suit in my mind.

    Now, mage weapon, that makes sense, although it took me awhile to figure out how they worked. I don't think it would be very difficult to take the basic system of armour and rework it. Set each type into a category of template type, then build some basic loot drops and crafting created sets.

    One of the things I thought was interesting is that it could lead to tons more different loot if the correct attributes or bonuses were placed on basic types then it would make sense that people would use them or look for them on loots.

    For example: having the crafting be not random, would serve its' purpose in stacking and being able to create your basic suits. For example: if val metal gave an automatic hit chance increase or strength bonus, whereas, basic metal would give nothing but would have basic resistances. So, you could create a suit with 70 physical resistance with one strike of the hammer on each piece.

    The next metal type could yield something different but every piece would be the same. Then the next level would be your imbuing.

    Same with leather, create more runic kits to match the color of smithing ores, so those come out the same as well. So, there is no difference between the metal and the leather except for the metal being for a fighting warrior and the leather being for medable types. Also, the introduction to mage robes and clothing, where you would have even more of a bonus to meditation and added properties like spell damage.

    Maybe even a new type of arcane magic that can create special mage clothing and a way to harvest arcane material.

    I just think the whole sum of how it was done was wrong but still better than any other system and I agree it needs to be worked on as the main concept of what UO is.
     
  12. Velvathos

    Velvathos Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    159
    Tank mages now have weapons that don't disarm when they cast.. If I remember, I could have swore that heavier armor did hurt casting, you couldn't meditate in it I know that, still can't unless it is mage armor, also it lowered your swing speed, back in the day, the higher your dex, the faster you wore with a weapon, I thought it was the same for casting, correct me if I am wrong?
     
  13. Velvathos

    Velvathos Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    159
    I am actually a die-hard role-player and everything I say comes from a role-players perspective, I usually tend to agree with anyone that wants a classic shard because UO was a much more realistic game than it is now, this catered towards role-players.. "PvP" was not the feature in UO to begin with, but kiddies got on and treated it like another Counterstrike.. The feature was the realism and freedom of choice to do what you wish inside this social experiment.. It's not nice to be able to solo in a online world, PvE in UIO is about grouping, noone should be able to solo some super high end monster.. It should take at least 5 players in my opinion.. Diminishing returns would bring back grouping in PvE, and I see this as a good thing.. Seriously, people come on here and talk about soloing in a MMORPG?
     
  14. Magdalene

    Magdalene Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 1, 2000
    Messages:
    7,501
    Likes Received:
    164
    The real question is: do we need yet another thread about it?
     
  15. Mairut

    Mairut Guest

    I like most of your suggestions, OP.
    Especially house keys. Would be nice to be able to steal those :D
    One thing I liked about "back then" was how the moongates were subject to moon phases, because it added a little interest. Unfortunately, there now seems to be too many facets to do that... imagine how long the moon list would be when clicking on the spyglass! :p

    This!!!!
    I mean, you have...what... 2minutes to run back to your corpse after getting a res? That's enough time to run from Despise dungeon to the Brit healers, and then back again, and you're stuff still probably won't be in bones yet. (Depends on how very laggy you are)

    Insured items stay on your ghost, so that wouldn't be a big deal. Add to it that almost anyone can recall or journey as soon as they're ressed. The only problem would be if you were wandering around in the wilderness; and even that isn't a big deal as long as you know the general area you're in (and I don't see any good reason why someone wouldn't).

    All this assuming that whatever you had on your corpse is really worth going back for in the first place ;)
     
  16. Unsatisfied

    Unsatisfied Guest

    simply adding the things you've mentioned won't brig back the market they are targeting. A classic shard will. I guess I'll explore some of your point while I'm here.

    The new guild system is horrible and what's the point of adding the guild stones for cosmetic effect? The fact it getting rid of them for an option on your paperdoll got rid of the spirit of a guild stone/house. There was a bigger sense of belonging when you had to go with your guild, get put on the stone and click it yourself, Nd your right in saying that then the guildhiuae would usually be a place to hang out.

    Custom housing is fine.

    Moonstones only bother me because this would mean there is a tramel, and also If I owned a castle people could get into my locked courtyard using a moonstone on the other side.
    Insurance is a joke. As if tramel didn't make it a low enough risk to die, now they drop insurance into the mix, death has no concequence, everyone has mills thanks to free farming in tram, so insurance is nothing

    plate armour originally didn't effect mages becUse there was no meditation skill, after it was introduced any armour would slow the med rate of a caster if he could med in it at all. The current armour system is stupid, a hat can have better props than plate.

    Artifacts are ****. We want a classic shard to oblitterate the stupidity of item based uo, he simplicity of gm-vanq weapons please.

    The current skill and stat system is bad, it works for aos uo because you need that level of skills to combat what's out there and those stats to use said skills effectively, but we want 7xgm back. 225 stat cap having to sacrifice a stats to adjust got your template.

    I dunno if I've missed anything but there's something to start on for you
     
  17. Unsatisfied

    Unsatisfied Guest

    introducing house keys would do nothing in this era unless you scored access to their house too.

    Bring back classic uo pls.
     
  18. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Yea though if we go back to classic times the new skills can't be introduced they werent there during that time neither were any of the mods of any items. If we stay the same now then it's not classic times so a balron will drop just as fast and unless everyone in the game will be a sampire and remove every other template in the game which would remove choice in UO and destroy it's sandbox concept making into a clone of other online games but with over a decade old graphic bringing it finaly to its end. So my point is right on. Have a good evening.
     
  19. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    I agree with everything but the soloing. This game does not have 1k friends to play at all times. Matter of fact this game is built on a solo player game just with more people. The game concept was you are the hero or villan and you walk through thios world doing whatever you please. If you become powerful enough to kill a ancient enemy on your own then you have accomplish it. If you are not strong enough then you can get other people to help. This is your world you do what you want with it. You are the main character all other characters are there to either support you,hinder you or get destroyed while making your mark in the world. It's a role playing game not force to do anything you don't want and can do anything that you think is the best way to accomplish your goal.

    Besides when your times don't match up with anybody elses and the rewards of the creature is barely enough to even bother with. You definetly don't want to share the petty loot and even if you did there is nobody around to share it with. UO is a low pop over a decade old game spread upon many shards. The fact is you shouldn't rely on others to have fun. Your fun is up to you.
     
  20. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    ... but having not enough people to get a group that can fight anything worth fighting is even worse :)

    By the way, boss soloing isn't actually a viable method of PvM, when it is possible it takes so long that it's terribly boring and ineffective.
    It's more trophy hunting and bragging rights.
     
  21. Velvathos

    Velvathos Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    159
    Your argument is invalid.. I am a avid role-player on Europa in a RP community that goes out hunting in large groups around 20 times a day, and we do it with non-runic crafted equipment only, nothing magic, no artifacts..

    And let me tell you, it is far more fun than soloing.. :)
     
  22. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    It's fun at times to get a friend to go with you. But unless you and your group would be there everytime i feel like going out and killing what I feel like either it's 3 am in the morning or 10 oclock at night killing for a 5 hour session on my shard then it doesn't work well. Worst of is for those players that only have 1 hour a week to play and are high level. The chance they find a friend to do what they want at the exact time they want and stay as long as they want is very slim. Games have like WOW have millions of players you will always find somebody at all times of the day doing exactly what you want because lets face it once your high level on WOW there is very little that those levels will feel is worth to do untill they raise the cap again with a new expansion.
     
  23. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    The original game design did not allow for you to solo balrons or ancient wyrms except perhaps on a tamer since the original game design allowed for you to have an army of them. So the game was not really a "solo-game" in a multi-player world. It had its mixes, most of the stuff in the game is very easy to solo (most of it is not even that long, can not say it is not boring because anything solo = boring) SA has revived the "MMO" concept with things like Stygian dragon (which I do not think has been soloed and if it has it must have taken far to long to ever want to do it again) I like having both styles of play available, do I think the entire game should be accessible to both? probably not, some things you should need a group of people for and other should be more benefiting if you do it solo.

    Obviously "anything" you can do solo would be accessible to a group, but sometimes there should be benefits to doing "certain" things solo, so that all play styles get some love. I think the main drawback here is lack of people currently, I think everyone should expand their game play and make friends (or more friends) so that you can "usually" find people to play with, but I also think EA (or who ever you wish to blame) needs to get on the ball and increase the numbers here. Most people WANT a sandbox game like UO why wont those same people play UO? I do not have a definitive answer (all tho I am sure some of you will try to pinpoint the problem after I post this) but I do know UO could be way more mainstream than it is now if "someone" would just put the work into making it so.
     
  24. Unsatisfied

    Unsatisfied Guest

    @velvathas, I posted a huge reply about your original post and you havnt said a thing about it, are you simply ignoring me? Or are you just not replying because you don't have anything do reply to it with?
     
  25. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    6,452
    Likes Received:
    107

    He didnt reply because your location tag says:

    Location: Felucia

    How can you be taken seriously?
     
  26. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    But those days UO was the first game of it's kind with a large population at that time also those monsters were able to be solo by the best though which you were able to have unlimited amount of dragons at your arsenal. This is not the case now with the population. But the best are still out there just there are more of us. Oh and you must of seen those asian shard players in action they are really good.
     
  27. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    3,590
    Likes Received:
    1,458

    The problem in my opinion was changing the game from skill-based play to item-based play.

    It left those players who, due to job or family obligations, couldn't put in a dozen hours or more a day in-game, way behind those who could.

    Item farming by those who could stay in-game hours on end has lead to the screwed up economy.

    How good you are, PvM or PvP, doesn't mean much anymore. It's who has the most powerful items. I mean, for crying out loud, being able to solo an Ancient Wyrm Paragon alone!? The uber-gear he had is just a wee (Really Big Wee :) ) bit to powerful.

    The game, becoming item-based, has resulted in an arms race between tougher monsters and tougher toys. Where does this leave all the players who only have the minor items because they can't play the hours required to farm the items, or the tens or hundreds of millions in gold needed to buy the items others have on vendors. (Browse luna vendors. The prices have reached such ridiculous amounts.)

    I'd love to see EA change the formulas used to calculate defense & offense to remove the effects of resists & item bonus's. Return combat to being based on whether your good or bad at combat, not what superduper toys you have.
     
  28. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes Received:
    45
    I think the system now is good as it is. With Imbuing fresh wind came in, my crafter dreams came true and will come true. Artifacts are now balanced and have its advantages but also disadvantages.

    Insurance yes / no, hmm if you make a wonderfull armor, full of your ideas you want to lay it down in a chest? No! So insurance is okay and a part of the history too.

    Also we have to say, AoS was no real fault in general, otherwise we were not here discussing it. But nothing is perfect, for me UOSA was one of the greatest expansions for UO! Why? Because of a long and good beta phase, the developers heard us in many apsects, think of the pet colors.

    Nothing is perfect and also UOSA has it's faults, the gargoyles are too weak and have no real advantage, Archery and Throwing are different and Throwing is harder caculated, a few bugs, etc.

    But overall i like UO how it is now! I like the ideas of the developers with the new faction system, i like the new client, i dont need such a shard! Maybe i will play on Siege if this bad skillsystem is disabled completly, i cant understand why it was ever been created? You have only one character slot, so no need for that in my eyes.
     
  29. Unsatisfied

    Unsatisfied Guest

    How can I be taken seriously???? Because of MY location tag?

    Mate your location tag is someones moms basement and your questioning how I can be twin seriously with my loction tag? Come back with a decent troll you moron.
     
  30. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    6,107
    Likes Received:
    92
    :popcorn:

    :gee:

    :thumbup1:

    When I started playing UO, back in 1997, there was a moon called Felucca.

    I have never heard of Felucia, in the 12+ years I have played UO.

    I'm just sayin'...

    :lol:

    rolleyes:
     
  31. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,885
    Likes Received:
    5,169
    Troll fest over.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.