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Weapon Special Move Review

Discussion in 'UHall' started by ShadowTrauma, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. ShadowTrauma

    ShadowTrauma Seasoned Veteran
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    Publish 80.0.0
    (Hypothetical...)

    Weapon Special Moves
    Disarm:
    • A successful Disarm leaves the victim unable to re-arm another weapon for 5 seconds.
    • Once this effect wears off it cannot be re-applied for 10 seconds.
    • This move is exempt from the Tactics requirement when used as an Unarmed (wrestling) special move.
    Double Shot:
    • Mana cost raised from 30 to 35.
    • Send two arrows flying at your opponent if your are mounted.
    • The second arrow has an 80% chance to hit. This arrow cannot activate "on hit" item properties.
    Double Strike:
    • The highly skilled warrior can use this special attack to make two quick swings in succession.
    • The second strike has an 80% chance to hit. This strike cannot activate "on hit" item properties
    Infectious Strike:
    • Mana cost raised from 15 to 20.
    Mortal Strike:
    • A successful Mortal Strike will render its victim unable to heal any damage for several seconds.
    • Lasts for 6 seconds (player) or 12 seconds (NPC).
    • Applying Mortal Strike again within 12 seconds halves the duration. This can repeat, further reducing the duration to 1 second, until 12 seconds have passed.
    • Does not prevent curing poison or stopping bleeding.
    Psychic Attack:
    • A successful psychic attack will now afflict the target with a 20% Mana Cost Penalty, and a 15% Spell Damage Penalty. This can be stacked one additional time, but does not offer an increase in duration.
    Serpent Arrow:
    • Mana cost reduced from 35 to 30.
    • The Poisoning skill will give a (Poisoning Skill)% chance to increase the level of poison delivered by 1.
    • With Poisoning skill 0.0 - 19.9 you cannot inflict posion
      With Poisoning skill 20.0 - 59.9 you can inflict level 1 (with a chance of level 2)
      With Poisoning skill 60.0 - 79.9 you can inflict level 2 (with a chance of level 3)
      With Poisoning skill 80.0 - 100.0 you can inflict level 3 (with a chance of level 4)
    I chose the layout at the top to hopefully have people experience what they might think and feel if they saw changes like these in a publish. My goal was to keep much of the original wording as possible and alter as little function of the moves as needed. I will attempt to explain my thoughts as best as I can and give an overview of the weapon special system. The moves listed above I believe are easier to fix then the others I will discuss further down in the post. Feel free to turn and run now (long post) or post your thoughts and opinions after reading. Thank you.

    Armor Ignore: For this attack, the defender has 0 Physical Resistance, but the attack only does 90% normal damage. Damage is capped at 35 in PvP. Most Armor Ignore weapons don't need maximum tactics, anatomy, strength, and damage increase to easily reach the PvP damage cap. Arguably the best overall move for both playstyles. The move which other damage moves are compared to. Needs more competition in PvM.

    Armor Pierce: *Yumi and Sai only* Upon landing an Armor Pierce, 50% of the damage dealt is added as direct damage, with a possibility to damage the target's armor. *Requires Bushido or Ninjitsu skill* Functions similar to Crushing Blow currently, but costs more. A mediocre move that should be improved in damage or by adding an effect. In PvP with maximum tactics, anatomy, strength, and damage increase the top end damage is 36 for the Yumi vs 70 resist.

    Bladeweave: The use of Bladeweave triggers a random special move from this list: Armor Ignore, Bleed Attack, Block, Crushing Blow, Concussion Blow, Double Strike, Feint, Mortal Strike, and Paralyzing Blow. A bad move in that its effect is completely random. In addition the moves are a mix of offense and defense and some require Bushido or Ninjitsu to work. Should be improved with a new reliable effect or at the very least do either offense or defense, not both.

    Bleed Attack: Should not be able to be repeatedly applied for maximum disruption effect. This is a much trickier move to balance as its effect varies based on duration. A cooldown is the easiest solution, but a resistance effect similar to poisoning's passive resist bonus could also work. A solution like my Mortal Strike suggestion could work as well, but isn't as clean a fit in my opinion. *Need more feedback on this one.*

    Block: On executing a successful block, players will receive a bonus to their defense chance for a short duration. Players will also receive a temporary penalty to their hit chance and damage. While under the block effect, the next damage the player receives will be severely reduced. *Requires Bushido or Ninjitsu skill* Sounds interesting, but I couldn't find any definitive numbers on it. Unfortunate that skills and weapon choices restrict it.

    Crushing Blow: This attack increases the damage done by a weapon reaching its mark by 50%. Additional damage is applied as physical damage. A mediocre move that should be improved in damage or by adding an effect. In PvP with maximum tactics, anatomy, lumber jacking, strength, and damage increase the top end damage is 38 for the Ornate Axe vs 70 resist.

    Concussion Blow: *Up to date description (Publish 60). Thank you Logrus.* Does 10 direct damage and temporarily drains 50% of the target’s mana, restored after 6 seconds. Target becomes temporarily immune to this drain effect if it happens too often to them. A mediocre move that should be improved in damage or by adding a better effect. In PvP and PvM with a choice between this and Armor Ignore, AI wins.

    Defense Mastery: *Lajatang and Kama only* This special move allows the caster to increase their physical resist, which can exceed the individual's cap of 70%, for 5 seconds, at the expense of a damage penalty which scales between 60 - 10%. *Requires Bushido or Ninjitsu skill* Sounds good, unfortunate that skills and weapon choices restrict it.

    Disarm: *Suggested change at top* Reason for change is to prevent an abusive mechanic when repeatedly used.

    Dismount: Does its job well.

    Double Shot/Double Strike: *Suggested changes at top* Reason for change is to provide some alternatives to Armor Ignore. The change makes the moves more reliable which is needed to be competitive with Armor Ignore. In PvP with maximum tactics, anatomy, strength, and damage increase the top end damage would be 48 (if both attacks also hit max) for the Yumi vs 70 resist. In PvP with maximum tactics, anatomy, lumber jacking, strength, and damage increase the top end damage is 44 (if both attacks also hit max) for the Double Axe vs 70 resist. The second attacks not activating "on hit" specials is to prevent excessive damage spikes in PvP now that average damage would be more stable.

    Dual Wield: *Tekagi only* *Requires Ninjitsu skill*
    • A successful Dual Wield attack will give the player a chance to execute an extra attack at reduced damage for a short duration. Players can execute additional dual wield specials during the initial effect to provide a very slight buff to the duration and an increased chance to execute extra attacks.
    • Duration of the dual wield effect scales with Ninjitsu skill above 70. Extra attacks are committed at 60% damage of a regular attack and CAN cause additional weapon effects.
    • Executing additional Dual Wield strikes while already under the dual wield effect will extend the duration by 2 seconds and increase the chance by 15%.
    • The effect can be stacked up to 2 additional times.
    Wow... so many mechanics where to start? Sounds really interesting, but I can't even begin to get any real data to tell if this is worth it. *Read Logrus' post for more details.*

    Feint: Reduces the attacker’s damage by a percentage. The percentage can be 20% to 50% and scales based on the defender’s weapon skill. Duration is 6 seconds. *Requires Bushido or Ninjitsu skill* Good move, unfortunate that skills and weapon choices restrict it.

    Force Arrow: *Elven Composite Bow only* This attack provides a 20% damage increase. Additionally it will reduce the target’s defense chance by 10%. This attack can also be stacked multiple times for a further DCI reduction of 5% per stack and 2 second duration increase. The Dazed effect, will provide a GUARANTEED spell interrupt. Even if the target is under the effect of protection. Once this effect wears off, it cannot be re-applied for 10 Seconds. Fun, but limited to weapon.

    Force of Nature: *Wild Staff only* Any hit damage is multiplied by 1.65. However, in compensation, the attacker receives a poison damage penalty of between 25 and 35 Hit Points (which is subject to resists as per normal). A really bad move that doesn't add up at all. In PvP with maximum tactics, anatomy, strength, and damage increase the top end damage would be 23 vs 70 resist, you also take between 8-11 damage... for 40 mana! I would suggest a new effect or drastically increase the multiplier.

    Frenzied Whirlwind: It deals damage to all enemies within 2 tiles in two successive hits over time. *Requires Bushido or Ninjitsu skill* Only available on 3 not used weapons and npcs/players can easily move out of range before effect is done. Needs a change.

    Infectious Strike: *Suggested change at top* Reason for change is to prevent a frustrating experience when repeatedly used. For many it currently only costs 3-6 mana after reductions, this would make it 6-12.

    Infused Throw: *Cyclone only* The projectile will be infused with energy by the attacker causing it to do more damage and stun or dismount the target. Good as is, does its job very well.

    Lightning Arrow: *Magical Shortbow only* Upon successful use, hits target and any two allies of the target that are within 5 tiles with a lightning bolt, that does between 29 and 40 points of energy damage. No target will get more than one lightning strike. If there are more than two allies within the 5 tile radius, two are selected at random. No complaints.

    Mortal Strike: *Suggested change at top* Reason for change is to prevent a frustrating experience when repeatedly used.

    Moving Shot: This special move allows archers or throwers to fire while on the move. This shot is somewhat less accurate than normal, but the ability to fire while running is a clear advantage. Good as is, does its job well.

    Mystic Arc: *Boomerang only* The thrown projectile will arc to a second target after hitting the primary target. Chaos energy will burst from the projectile at each target. This will only hit targets that are in combat with the user. Good as is, not used often because the Boomerang . Its complimentary move of Concussion Blow doesn't help.

    Nerve Strike: *Bokuto only* Does damage and paralyses your opponent for a short time. *Requires Bushido skill* Good as is, does its job very well.

    Paralyzing Blow: A successful Paralyzing Blow will leave the target stunned, unable to move, attack, or cast spells, for a few seconds. Duration is 3 seconds (player), 6 seconds (NPC). The duration is broken by combat damage in the same way as paralyze spell. This move is exempt from the Tactics requirement when used as an Unarmed (wrestling) special move. Good as is.

    Psychic Attack: *Elven Spellblade and Magical Shortbow only* *Suggested change at top* Reason for change is to tweak an underused move. The tiny adjustment makes Psychic Attack a little more powerful by fully countering lower mana cost in PvP.

    Riding Swipe: *No-Daichi only* If you are on foot, dismounts your opponent and damage the ethereal's rider or the living mount(which must be healed before ridden again). If you are mounted, damages and stuns the mounted opponent. *Requires Bushido skill* Good as is.

    Serpent Arrow: *Elven Composite Bow only* *Suggested change at top* Reason for change is to correct a disfunctional move. Currently its poisoning formula is random and incase you weren't aware it also has a chance to summon a snake at the target which either does nothing, or attacks you...

    Shadowstrike: Successful use of Shadowstrike deals 25% extra damage to the target and renders the attacker invisible. *Requires 80 Stealth* Interesting, but not feasible. The player is often revealed as soon as hide activates/stealth attempt is made. Suggesting a change to something more functional and significant for all playstyles.

    Talon Strike: *Tekagi only* Talon Strike imparts a damage increase of approximately 20%. It also gives the target a negative hit point regeneration for a short time. At 120 ninjitsu the effect is -50 hp regen for 3 seconds. This means you will do an extra 15 points of damage that ignore armor but can be offset if the target has good hp regen. *Requires Ninjitsu skill* This move was nerfed aggressively in the past. It currently needs a change.

    Wall of Text: Hits you for 9999 damage (Its over 9000!), 1 shot I win! Its not like you read this far anyway...

    Whirlwind Attack: The Whirlwind Attack allows the fighter to strike at all nearby targets in one mighty spinning swing. Good as is.

    Thank you Stratics and UOGuide for the information and to anyone that made it this far. I look forward to your feedback.
     
    #1 ShadowTrauma, Oct 5, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
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  2. Mentiras

    Mentiras Sage
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    My suggestions as follows:

    Armor Pierce:
    • Reduce mana cost to 25

    Bladeweave:
    • Select from defensive moves only
    • Add an aura that procs no matter what move is selected, aura lasts for 5s, enemies within range take 2-5 damage per second and are interrupted.

    Crushing Blow:
    • If your opponent is in Stone Form you crush the enchantment dispelling the effect. (If Stone Form is dispelled in this way the mana cost of Crushing Blow is doubled.)

    Concussion Blow:
    • Guarenteed interrupt even thru protection

    Feint:
    • Increased mana cost to 35
    • The first attack made against the defender will NOT hit
    • The second attack has its damage reduced by 20-50%

    Force of Nature: *Wild Staff only*
    • A self buff which increases all damage dealt by 15% for 5s.
    • Decrease mana cost to 25

    Shadowstrike:
    • Offers a free of cost shadowjump after successful shadowstrike.

    Talon Strike: *Tekagi only*
    • Debuff's target; lowers all resists by 10, hit chance by 15, and def chance by 15
    • Target cannot stealth for 5s after being hit
     
    #2 Mentiras, Oct 5, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
  3. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Bladeweave: Don't forget that some of the moves duplicated require Bushido or Ninjitsu to work, meaning that those few of us left that haven't gone over to playing SE-based templates get jack when those moves pop up.

    You should note the SE-skill dependence of some of the special moves as well.
     
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  4. ShadowTrauma

    ShadowTrauma Seasoned Veteran
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    Good suggestions. Added to Bladeweave and skill dependence to move descriptions, also altered some comments to reflect the changes.
     
  5. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    If I remember correctly, it scales from 30-80% reduction depending on skills. This damage reduction is for the damage at the instant so getting hit with an instant spell effect proc on a weapon, will reduce both the weapon hit and the spell effect.

    Currently 10 Points of damage, Reduces Mana Pool by 50% for 6 seconds
    The old effect above meant that the more you spammed it the better it got. If target was low on HP and they healed using mana you did more damage because they lost mana. If they didnt you did more damage because they were low on HP. That made it pretty unfair since the damage was Direct/True damage not subject to resists and in addition to whatever the regular hit and effects did.

    This can increase physical resist by up to 13 above cap. (83).

    At 120 ninjitsu the duration is 9 seconds (I think or it could be 7) 15% chance is about 1 in 7 hits. 3 consecutive uses would add 4 seconds to the duration (max 13) and after the first swings it would be about 10 seconds with a 60% chance to deal an extra attack (at max swing thats 8 attacks total, average potential for about 4.5 extra attacks). This special is best used with a high spell effect proc tekagi. Of course you could proc the extra swing on every single attack and do a crapload of extra damage, or you could proc none, and do no extra damage except for the 20%. risk/reward

    Mystic Arc damage is not bad, but gains significant damage with mysticism. Gives a mystic thrower significant burst capability (Especially with a hybrid template with a properly imbued boomerang using the Enchant weapon to add SC and Hit Spell )

    Already stackable to reduce the lower mana cost effect by up to 40%
    Since you are right beside the target your walk stealth chance for passive reveal tends to cause you to be revealed right away. However this can be countered by Activating stealth via the skill instead of taking a step. A shadow jump can be made immediately.

    Just corrections. But some interesting ideas there.
     
    #5 Logrus, Oct 6, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
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  6. ShadowTrauma

    ShadowTrauma Seasoned Veteran
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    Edited some of Logrus' post to more easily respond.

    I really appreciate the corrections and extra information Logrus, it will help to make this at the very least an informative post. For example had you not caught the Concussion Blow error people might still think it works the way the sites have it. Thanks again.
     
  7. Mentiras

    Mentiras Sage
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    Got another one.

    Frenzied Whirlwind:
    • Buffs player strength by 20 for 10s (this effect can exceed the strength cap, equaling a 6% damage increase)
    • Damages any enemies within 2 tiles
    • When strength buff wears off, player's strength is reduced by 10 for 10s, this cannot be overridden by using Frenzied Whirlwind again.
     
  8. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I like the increase of 80% hit chance to double shot, but I would like to say keep the hit spells at normal function.

    Regarding the No-Daichi, I think there is still a bug. If you riding swipe someone that has ninjitsu they can just animal form with no delay timer.
     
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  9. ShadowTrauma

    ShadowTrauma Seasoned Veteran
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    Thats a cool mechanic, sort of a D&D style berserk effect, and there are very few "buff" weapon mechanics available currently. I like some of the ideas in your first post as well, like the Shadow Strike one. Your Shadow Strike change would be a little tweak to the current move that might help its function, but I personally would still like to see something more practical for both playstyles. Never hurts to toss some suggestions out, they might inspire some creativity in other people.

    Yeah I knew the Double Shot/Strike change could possibly be controvertial... its a tricky one. Currently it is too much of a gamble (especially melee) to justify using over Armor Ignore. What I am concerned about is, if you increased the chance of the second shot to 80% (reasonable, while still maintaing some risk) those 60-70+ Yumi shots that are possible with "on-hit" specials might become too consistant in PvP (PvM would be less of an issue) to justify the change.

    I think it definately needs an adjustment, but how much while still keeping a balance is tough. After looking at it a little bit longer my suggested compromise would be:

    Double Shot/Strike:
    • Mana cost raised from 30 to 35
    • Send two arrows flying at your opponent if your are mounted. *Double Shot only*
    • The second arrow/strike has an 80% chance to hit. This arrow/strike cannot activate "on hit" item properties.
    If people are more agreeable to this direction please let me know and I'll update the first post.

    I also searched for the Riding Swipe bug. They are aware of it so I will leave it out, but thank you anyway Lynk.

    On a related topic readers, please take a moment to consider Logrus' interesting post in *PvP needs some Attention* | Page 4 | Stratics: A Career Path in Gaming.

    An example of how it would possibly affect my suggestions would be:
    Double Shot/Strike:
    • Mana cost raised from 30 to 35
    • Send two arrows flying at your opponent if your are mounted. *Double Shot only*
    • The second arrow/strike has an 50%-80% (based on Tactics skill scaling up from 90-120) chance to hit. This arrow/strike cannot activate "on hit" item properties.
    Just another intriguing idea to consider that may add to the experience of weapon specials and the combat system in general.
     
    #9 ShadowTrauma, Oct 7, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  10. jopromol

    jopromol Lore Master
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    Love this to be improved on. My favorite template growing up on this game was my LJ/Stealther. WOuld love to be able to dust the cobwebs off him. Anyhows, what about improvements to two-handed weapons like the broad range of axes as well as the use of LJ'ing in a template? From what I remember, Lumberjacks receive a Damage Increase when they wield certain weapons. The formula is Lumberjack skill ÷ 5 (plus 10% if Lumberjacking is equal to or greater than 100). At GM Lumberjacking, there is a 5% chance for a Lumberjacking damage bonus of 100% from base weapon damage. Is this still accurate? Because when I had LJ on my template a month ago, it seemed pointless... I would love to see maybe a 10% chance rather than 5.
     
  11. Bleak

    Bleak UO Software Engineer
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    Currently at GM Lumberjacking you receive a 30% damage bonus with a 10% chance to receive an additional 70% damage bonus which totals to 100% of base weapon damage.
     
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  12. ShadowTrauma

    ShadowTrauma Seasoned Veteran
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    Thanks for checking in and the update to a relatively unknown mechanic. I personally would like to see something more substantial, but its always good to get the facts.
     
    #12 ShadowTrauma, Oct 8, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2012
  13. jopromol

    jopromol Lore Master
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    Thanks Bleak, thought that sounded outdated, but like Trauma said, I would also like to see somthing more substantial, given the fact that two-handed fighters take a huge risk not having the option to chug a pot in this games current PvP style.
     
  14. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    I forgot that you changed 5% to 10% before releasing Publish 69 to the prod. shards, it was 5% at TC1.
     
  15. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    I think its a great idea, as many have suggested, that special moves effectiveness should scale with something.
    Any special move should have a colddown timer of atleast 10sec.
    Bleed Attack should be cureable trough mini-heal. say 10% chance. (scaled with magery/eval..or something else)
    Lower mana cost on special moves should scale with Weaponskill+focus+tactics+(LMC on armor).
    When a special move is executed, it should cost mana+stanima.
    Lightning strike, should only cost 5mana.
    2hand weapons should also have the balanced property.
    Weapon speed should scale with weaponskill/tactics/ana. still retain a fixed maximum/minimum weapon speed.
    There should be a chance to fail to execute a special move..(dependent on weaponskill+focus)
    Oh well just some random ideas...
     
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  16. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Concussion used to be pretty nice, and they nerfed it because the quiver of rage was bugged and overpowered. Its a shame really.
     
  17. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    Might be the way to go to require both mana and stamina for special moves, once stamina refreshment is looked at.

    I would prefer an immunity or resistance period to bleed, to limit spam, on the victim, the purpose of bleed is to interrupt mage casting. It doesnt prevent healing, so its possible to cast both lesser and greater heal easily between bleed rounds. If it was easily removed, it would be come pretty useless.

    Having balanced on 2 handed weapons, is one helluva can of worms. Its bad enough on ranged weapons, but since ranged weapons don't provide the same defensive bonuses, and parry capabilities, its less powerful. On 2H melee weapons, it would be disastrous. An upward adjustment of their damage should compensate reasonably for giving up potions.

    Lightning strike provides free max hci with potential for armor ignore scaling with skill. (@5 w LMC thats 3 mana/attempt) Even if the HCI effect were set to scale, a 6 mana investment for increased HCI has pretty much no-drawbacks.
     
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  18. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Requiring stamina for special moves is intrguing, but i think that would also be another can of worms. As you mentioned, stamina refresh would have to be looked at. If that is done, then keeping your stamina up for healing and weapon speed might need to be looked at (such as a dex only requirement). Or you could look into damage/spells not taking away stamina, but then what happens? So much to take in with that one, although i've had this vent conversation with puni before, who i think was the one to suggest it. I think it is a pretty neat concept though, and if done properly would work out well, just the loss of stamina would need to be adjusted, if ti wasn;t simple high damage spells and strangle/pain spike would be monsters.


    As for balance on 2 handed weapons.... f to the no. Like Logrus said, that opens up too much, adjusting base damage, speed, and revamping special moves to counter the loss of potions would make way more sense. I also wish things would be considered for pole-arms to have a 2 tile range, but i think thats just a pipe dream lol
     
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  19. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Also, reconsider how lower mana cost is calculated in regards to specials. Currently there is no such thing as a "pure" or "straight" char template such as an archer, than can achieve the lmc caps without adding in things like ninja, another weap skill, bushido, etc.
     
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  20. ShadowTrauma

    ShadowTrauma Seasoned Veteran
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    Grouped qoutes of a similar topic together for ease of reading and discussion. I think Kaio's post definately had some good ideas that seem to echo amongst many of us. The possibility of special moves costing mana and stamina is indeed intriguing, especially if you consider the possibility of placing more importance on focus. Focus currently does: For every 10 points of Focus a player has, their 10 second Stamina gain is increased by 1. For every 20 points of Focus a player has, their 10 second Mana gain is increased by 1. Now consider it also being an additional way to lower the cost of special moves. If there were more "pure" ways for special move costs to be reduced it would certainly be a step in the right direction overall. Focus would be more similar to how meditation is important to casters. Many people certainly play without meditation, but they add more mana regeneration (or focus) to their suits. A warrior would would have the option of adding stamina regeneration. All of this would take into consideration a refresh potion adjustment as well.

    I'll look more into some Bleed Attack suggestions before adding a change, but I definately side with Logrus on that its function needs to remain largely like it currently does. The first few seconds are really the most disruptive. After 3-4 seconds it is often easy to time heals between ticks, usually just moving and spamming mini heals is doable. I don't argue that Bleed Attack spam can be frustrating as all you are able to do is mini heal and be forced to wait to mount an offensive, so some sort of immunity might be helpful. At this time I would propose a 6 second immunity as bleed attack doesn't take as much control away from a player as other moves, but I am open to suggestions.
     
    #20 ShadowTrauma, Oct 9, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  21. Mentiras

    Mentiras Sage
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    I like this idea, and I think that it would be pretty cool if all moves had some kind of tactics check similar to this. For a chance at a secondary effect or something similar.
     
    #21 Mentiras, Oct 11, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
  22. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
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    It would be nice to check why some of those special attacks negate the weapon and talisman slayer effect in PvM.
    Crushing blow and concussion blow, I am looking at you.
     
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  23. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    (Crushing shouldn't negate slayer effect I believe)
    Concussion, and Hit spells, tend to trigger the slayer mechanic, before the swing damage is applied, so they take the slayer effect instead of the swing.
     
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  24. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    Force of Nature:
    Could be interesting to give this similar capability to Bombard, or just a plain knockback type effect. A shame its only on one weapon. Would also be interesting if maybe it did more damage but also damaged the user as well.
     
  25. ShadowTrauma

    ShadowTrauma Seasoned Veteran
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    I'm not opposed to a new effect like a "crowd control" type, but I figure they are tough to balance so I chose to leave those to the professionals. I agree it is a shame its only on one weapon, but you could also make the case for a stronger effect because of that fact. In PvP with maximum tactics, anatomy, strength, and damage increase the top end damage would be 35 vs 70 resist if you increased the multiplier from 1.65 to 2.5, you also would still take between 8-11 damage for 40 mana. It definately is ripe for some sort of new effect with its current mana cost and penalties.
     
  26. Arcades

    Arcades Sage
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    Why dont we up/get rid of the 300% damage increase cap while we are at it? Its too easy to achieve and neuters non-caster characters. Hell, with all these "caps" and limits on dmg, the whole feel of UO is diminished.

    I'd for one really like the current DEV team to look at changes that were made in the past that really killed necro spells, etc, and look at the feasibility of reversing the changes. Back then, there were no remove curse apples, thus many spells were too strong. Now, consumables like apples, petals, etc are an integral part of UO (and IMHO destroyed the skill-side of the game). Necromancy really needs some love. Imagine if they introduced a consumable like "Mage's Bane potion" that negated 80% of magery spells that we could eat every 30s, or if there was a spell that could be cast that made all magery spells useless...everyone would cry wolf.
     
    #26 Arcades, Oct 12, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  27. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I was really interested in this thread until everything went yellow and green text. Then I went into gtfo mode.

    But I think some of the moves need to be changed even more, like disarm for example shouldn't do any damage, just disarm the wep. A delay would def. be nice, as suggested by OP. For the other stuff, I'll need to pull up notepad a little later, hehe.
     
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  28. Who the hell has room for Focus on their templates?

    Archers maybe, Mystics sure. I'd rather people need to have resist (especially in PvP) instead of forcing Focus into already crammed templates.
     
  29. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Exactly, Ninjitsu & Bushido both count towards that 300.0 combat point bonus for the LMC of specials, While Tactics (required) and Anatomy do not factor into this.

    It makes no sense to me that you get the bonus from Ninjitsu & Bushido at all. they have their own attacks that cost mana, why should someone who gets MORE spells/attacks get the extra lmc, when a Pure Warrior would obviously get a true benefit from it, but doesn't ?


    I can agree with this at least currently, although it may not be necessary after the planned changes are made, (Armor & Weapon Re-Balancing)
     
    #29 CovenantX, Oct 12, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  30. ShadowTrauma

    ShadowTrauma Seasoned Veteran
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    I appreciate you taking your time to read it and I look forward to hearing some of your ideas if you get the time, I'll try to see if I can come up with a less obnoxious color.

    I understand what you are saying and "force" would not be my suggested scenario. The section that comment was taken from is mostly about a "what if" scenario, though I do state and still believe we need some more ways to lower special move costs. Similar to what Covenant says:

     
    #30 ShadowTrauma, Oct 12, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
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  31. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Hehe no worries. I've been guilty of making posts with lots of colors myself ;P.
     
  32. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Disarm for sure needs to be revamped. It has never been anything other then a crutch for unskilled pvpers.

    Nothing else in the game negates an entire template so easily and so quickly. It can be done by a huge variety of other templates and can be chained. It has been a joke since the first day it was introduced.

    Not to mention that it completely bypasses any sense of realism at all. I understand that many other things in the game are also not true to life but how that fark in the world is a Mage with little to no dexterity and something already being held in his hands able to wrest away a weapon that is being held with both hands by a warrior with 5x more dexterity and equal or more strength? Is the Mage doing it with his teeth? Seriously?

    And there is nothing sillier then 2 warriors figthing each other for 3 hours because they are each chaining disarm. Why start a fight if there can be no winner? An exercise in wasting bandages is all you get.

    But what is most perplexing is that the Devs introduced a move that allows a Mage to completely negate a Warriors entire template but the Warrior has no move of his own that does the same to the Mage?
    You could make a slight case for the weapon Paralyze move but 1, it still doesnt come close to the same effectiveness and 2, it was nerfed long ago because of incessant whining by Mages.

    Bottom line is that until warriors have a move that can completely negate any casting for the same duration and be so easily chained the same way it is a grossly imbalanced move that at the very least simply needs a cool-down timer.
     
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  33. ShadowTrauma

    ShadowTrauma Seasoned Veteran
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    Updated many of the suggestions and descriptions based on responses from helpful posters and further contemplation, thank you all.
    Changed color scheme slightly.

    One of my main goals while highlighting moves that need improvement is to also focus on moves that create bad gameplay experiences, so please if you spot some or take issue with suggestions feel free to say something. I will treat every poster with respect even if we end up agreeing to disagree, the posts could still be helpful.

    Random thought: It could be interesting if some specials "set-up" other special moves.
    Rough example: Armor Pierce temporarily lowered physical resist for a very short period of time, thus a Double Shot that followed it would do slightly more damage.

    No specifics with that example, because it would obviously need to be carefully balanced. Just trying to show what I was thinking.
     
  34. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    What about a parry mage with your realism? He would have high str and dex. So he would be okay to disarm then. What about another warrior, he would be able to as well.

    You could use wrestling so that it would be pointless for you to be disarmed, I've seen only a handful of good dexers use it, but it's very powerful. Also as another option you could use parry and bushido so you have a very high parry chance and could even counter attack also that you either A you aren't disarmed because you have a high parry chance, or B use counter attack to disarm first, works well with the parry obviously.

    Dexers can also negate a mages template as far more of them use a SC wep or SC mage wep. Also spells that have a delay are a a bonus against mages, while they don't do anything to disrupt a dexer who uses bandages.

    Also dexers are the ones who whine about things, IE parry needing dex, specials needing tactics ect.

    Warriors do have a move, they can disarm, bleed, and have delayed spells. Have fun trying to cast anything on a mage not in prot. If a mage does go in prot they become a sitting duck and should be very easy to kill if you know what you're doing.

    If you want to talk about realism though..how about when you get hit by a giant bolt of energy, it stops your swing, or say a fireball hitting your face, it resets your swing? That sounds fair to me. After all how could you swing a weapon while you are engulfed in fire. See how absurd you sound when you try to bring up realism in certain cases but not in others. Lets leave realism out, whens the last time you saw a greater dragon walking down the street...
     
  35. ShadowTrauma

    ShadowTrauma Seasoned Veteran
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    Speaking the Truth, You have stated your opinion in this thread and you have repeatedly stated it in Please include Disarm in any new Specials revamp | Stratics: A Career Path in Gaming

    I will ask you kindly not to spam this thread and keep your crusade mostly to the other thread as this one is about the entire weapon special system.

    *Copy and paste* One of my main goals while highlighting moves that need improvement is to also focus on moves that create bad gameplay experiences, so please if you spot some or take issue with suggestions feel free to say something. I will treat every poster with respect even if we end up agreeing to disagree, the posts could still be helpful.

    To sum our stances up incase it wasn't already abundantly clear:
    I am against spammable Disarm.
    You are for spammable Disarm.

    If you have other issues I would be more than glad to read them, but please show me the respect I show you.
     
    #35 ShadowTrauma, Oct 18, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
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  36. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    If its going to be discussed in two threads instead of just one, then I will talk about it in both. It's that simple.

    Until someone can bring up a point other than they dont like their attacks are stopped for a few seconds and show me how its over powered with no solution like WoD + AI or Honoring players and critting for more hp than they can have I will keep speaking my mind. No one has had any substance other than they don't like it.

    I will keep putting up examples of what people can do, if a select few are going to try to convince a character can't do anything at all for 5 seconds which isn't the case.

    I am never less than cordial with you.
     
  37. Nyses

    Nyses Lore Keeper
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    If you mean by that, that when the hit spell effect is triggered the slayer effect is negated (does not go off) then yes, I agree, that is how it is working currently. It seems to me that the hit for the slayer effect (double damage) should be calculated first then the spell effect, or special should proc.

    Upon looking at it again it seems you said, that when the spell or special proc, that uses the double damage slayer effect, then everything else goes off. How do you get the slayer effect to apply to the hit first and the spell effect/special second?
     
    #37 Nyses, Oct 21, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
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  38. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    I think that delayed hit spells would probably not interrupt the slayer damage (havent tested this.) so hit fireball rather than hit lightning would be a good switch.
    But any instant hit procs will set it off.
     
  39. Mentiras

    Mentiras Sage
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    Armor Pierce: *Yumi and Sai only* *Requires Bushido or Ninjitsu skill*
    • Reduce the mana cost to 25.
    • Also if followed by a Double Shot guarantee's both shots hit (second shot still cannot activate "on hit" properties).

    Double Shot/Strike:
    • Mana cost raised from 30 to 35
    • Send two arrows flying at your opponent if your are mounted. *Double Shot only*
    • The second arrow/strike has an 80% chance to hit. This arrow/strike cannot activate "on hit" item properties.
    Something like that?

    On a side note, I'm sure there have to be other people out there who would like to see some of these special moves changed a bit. Lets see some other ideas!