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Weapons are books?

Discussion in 'UO Enhanced Client Discussion' started by Pinco, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    I think there is a serious problem of understanding in the item properties:
    [​IMG]

    Ok, I think everyone knows what I'm talking about: if a new player point the mouse over an item and see all this mess how can understand something (and this is with my UI, in default is basically all white but the item name...)?

    I'm seriously thinking to make something more user friendly, so I'd like some ideas (mock-up especially), actually I found those 2 interesting designs:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    both could be adapted (with some work) to UO, but the image cannot be added here for 2 reasons:
    1. The current items image inside the backpack is ugly and hard to understand what it is.
    2. I can get the image only from the items inside a container.

    Also it could be possible to do a comparison like this (with an equipped item of the same slot):
    [​IMG]
    maybe it will be less accurate...


    However, i'll start to do something like this only if I see some interest. Because personally I'd rather avoid to waste a lot of hours on something that no one cares, also because when it's done there is no way back...
     
    #1 Pinco, Jan 13, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
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  2. Desa2k

    Desa2k Journeyman

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    Maybe an optional side window giving details of all the properties? Seems to me that style window wouldn't go well with uo items.
     
  3. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    dull as the one in the images surely will cover the whole screen, but I'm talking mostly about the layout of the text than the font/color style (that could come later) :p
     
  4. Lady Laurel

    Lady Laurel Seasoned Veteran
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    I can't really help you with ideas or mockups for the item properties, but I can say that I really like the idea of the comparison (especially if it would be something we could enable/disable. Like for my mules I keep the Extra Properties info enabled, but I wouldn't really need to know the comparison info on them, same for a few of my other characters.)
     
  5. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    I've made some mockups for what I have in mind:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The first is the basic, the second is with the extra info enabled, the third is with the comparison enabled.

    Here is another for the armors:
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    the second layout I think is the best, but I'm not so sure right now :/

    and the last for random items:

    [​IMG]
     
    #5 Pinco, Jan 13, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  6. Desa2k

    Desa2k Journeyman

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    The idea of dps in uo is complicated.. configuring the weapons dps is cool, but in actual usage you have to take in account strength, dex, tactics, anatomy, honor, enemy of one, slayer, max swing speed, specials, targets resists, weapons elemental damage, getting parried or just missing and probably more.
     
  7. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    not really... as you can see in the first post, my UI already shows the dps of each weapon. If you count skills, stats, etc... you get the character dps, the weapon dps just need to count your stamina and the weapon damage (the exact value that you can see near the weapon damage in the first post).

    The character dps it's also a good idea that could be added instead of the current damage value that doesn't count the swing speed :p
     
  8. Lady Laurel

    Lady Laurel Seasoned Veteran
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    LOVE the new mockups!!!! For the armor, I personally like the 2nd one (the larger total resist display).
     
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  9. keel

    keel Sage
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    I love comparisons, and the caps are a nice touch. Would it be too bulky if you put, say, Hit Stamina Leech 50%/50% to include the caps without taking up as much space?
     
  10. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    To be honest I prefer the way it is now pinco! The coloured resists are great, also the lighter yellow for the property caps are easy to spot when quickly glancing over an item.
     
  11. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    I like the mock ups for the windows, particularly the second armor and weapon ones, a couple of things:

    1. The font for the item name I think needs to be different. The one used is a little too... comicy for my tastes. For UO, I'd consider something more classical looking.

    2. For the armor, I would say to put the resists in the same format that you have the weapon's elemental damages. It keeps the displays compatable with each other, and it will make the overall size less which I think is one of the goals.

    3. Having the large DPS and Total Resists display I think is a great idea.

    4. Maybe move the Weapon Speed/Damage/Range notes down to the left of the Str Req, Skill, Race listings on the weapons and save some space there. Yes that area might get a little cramped, but you can lower the font size to compensate since that portion of info I usually ignored anyway, especially by veteran players.
     
  12. Lady Laurel

    Lady Laurel Seasoned Veteran
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    That is a really cool idea :)
     
  13. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    The colors in this mockups are not final, I'm working into the layout first... The intensity color will be surely added :p

    Actually is a random font, I'm focusing more on the layout... to be honest also the other font do not convince me since the numbers looks little than the text :p

    It could work, as it is looks weird compared to the weapons :D

    It's not a random disposition, I've separated the data in groups:
    where you see the dps, there is all the data about the weapon damage, then the item properties with another color (so your eyes can see them immediately), and where you see the str req it's the area for requirements in order to use it.

    So moving the weapons info down there will mess up the layout, but I can try to use a little font instead :p
     
    #13 Pinco, Jan 14, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  14. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    I think in this case all the items need to show the cap limits. I know exactly what your saying about new players. I remember myself having to ask my friends "what is HCI, is 12 HCI good on a weapon, whats the max i can get etc.." It's knowing what the caps are on the certain properties that I think is most important.
     
  15. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    Here it is some changes on fonts, the cap always enabled without the "CAP" text, the armor with the table of resist like the weapons, and also an example of set item :
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Here is another idea for the caps:
    [​IMG]

    I was also thinking about the item name color... something like:
    Plain items: white
    Residue items: red
    Essence items: blue
    Relic items: gold
    Set items: green
    Artifacts: purple
     
    #15 Pinco, Jan 14, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  16. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    The character sheet shows every name like HCI, SDI, ecc.. and the related cap for the character, the weapon will shows the cap for the single item and if you need to know what a property does, just press the ? button on the paperdoll and you'll get the answer :p
     
    #16 Pinco, Jan 14, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
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  17. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I'm Really liking these idea's Pinco. Awesome work . As for the colors of the names of Items I would think that Residue=Red is good but Essence should be Green since it's green in-game and set items could be blue.

    Might be more logical that way.
     
  18. Lady Laurel

    Lady Laurel Seasoned Veteran
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    YES, Amazing, I LOVE it!!!!

    I agree with this!
     
  19. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    The new armor one looks great. Making the resists look like the elemental damages on the weapon really helps out the look.



    Hmm... how about Plain items Grey and Residue items White, then leave the rest as is so:

    Plain items: grey
    Residue items: white
    Essence items: blue
    Relic items: gold
    Set items: green
    Artifacts: purple
     
  20. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Actually I still say:
    Plain items: Grey
    Residue: Red (Since Residue is red)
    Essence: Green (Since Essence is Green)
    Relic: Blue (Relics are sort of blue)
    Set: Purple
    Artifacts: Gold (Since Paragons are Gold)


    Logic is always best.
     
    #20 MalagAste, Jan 15, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  21. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    yes, it could work :)

    Anyways right now I'm trying to make a prototype in game.
    The only problem I see is the engrave text, I think could be put in the bottom after everything else or under the "crafed by".
     
  22. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    Here it is the first prototype of the new properties layout (for weapons) created in game:

    [​IMG]

    The colors still needs to be set, I've just made the worst case scenario: an item with a very long name, 10 properties, Insured, blessed and blessed for + brittle, cannot be repaired, ephemeral and imbued :D

    I decided that the best place for the engrave is under the crafted by because at the bottom is harder to see...
     
    #22 Pinco, Jan 15, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
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  23. dupapa

    dupapa Journeyman
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    Loving the new look, definitely a step forward,
     
  24. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    The most important thing for me would be the color coding.

    For item types, as discussed above (for all I care just tied to imbue weight, anything over imbue cap should have a different color IMO)

    Also, a color coding for the item properties.
    Color 1: Anything below 75% of cap (white?)
    Color 2: 75%-99% of cap (green?)
    Color 3: 100% of cap (blue?)
    Color 4: Over 100% (gold?)
     
  25. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    The current system allows the user to pick a color and it became more light when the value is near the cap. It could be changed, but we must define the percentage because I can't make them customizable :p
     
  26. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Ok well whatever you decide would be good, it's just important for me to be able to differentiate between intensities on a glance.

    Sifting through a crate of shame loot really strains the eyes otherwise :)

    Keep up the good work!
     
  27. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    Wow Pinco...again you demonstrate awesome abilities in the creation and improvement of our UI.

    Thanks for even thinking about this!! It is most excellent work!!
     
  28. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    Thanks, but the properties project is just at the beginning, and I still loking for ideas for items that are not weapons/armors/jewels :p
    And unfortunately the weapons specials will be visible just for normal weapons ... not artifacts, not named items and worst of all: the weapons specials cannot be seen if you use the client with a language different than english and the item is not inside a container :/

    I'd really like if the devs may change the "WindowData.ItemProperties.CurrentHover" of the world item from the current "0" to the real item/mobile id... so I can improve a bit the code :p
     
  29. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    The most valuable portion to me was the mockup where it had the Change if equipped rather than maxed. That would really go along way to suit building when you are picking though pieces.
     
  30. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    yes, the comparison is in my plans, but first I have to complete the differents layouts:
    - Weapons
    - Armors/Jewels
    - Rest (I start to think that probably this category could keep the default layout :p )

    Then I have to build up the character DPS so I can compare with the weapon DPS, and finally I can make the comparison. The hardest part is how to tell what you lose, but I'm sure I will come out with an idea :D
     
    #30 Pinco, Jan 15, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  31. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Looks pretty awesome to me Pinco!
     
  32. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    As I read through this and see the idea evolve, it REALLY makes me wish we could see more of this from the devs. It wouldn't have to be anything really big, just a simple concept, some mock up images, feedback, tweaks, and so on.

    That said, taking a look at the latest iteration:

    [​IMG]

    I think that Brittle, Cannot Be Repaired, and Ephemeral should be in red instead of blue. Beyond that, I'm not really seeing much else that's striking me as absolutely necessary.

    Depending on the font(s) used for the final product, I might tweak fonts and maybe colors a bit at least for my own use and keep them "default" for the updates to the UI theme packs (which will be needed for these windows).

    Looks great though, Pinco! I had considered doing the same thing a log time back during KR for the BOD windows but never really got anywhere useful with it. I see a LOT of the Diablo 3 UI aspect in this version, so expect to see some belly aching from the anti-EC posters over on the UHall, but I'd ignore it because the functionality and ease on the eyes makes it so much nicer.
     
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  33. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    This fonts is probably final, but I have to test with asian languange first...
    The colors still undone, that will come in the end :p

    Yes, is very diablo looking, but we can't deny the fact that diablo 3 has a very neat UI :D

    Anyways this is only the weapon part, armor/shield/jewels will have a similar layout, but I still unsure about the other items :/
     
  34. semmerset

    semmerset Seasoned Veteran
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    I like this old one.
    If I dont many crafting and hunting,its ok.
    Becouse I check it for buying or trading.
    But I like crafting and hunting,I need more check time for new one.

    Please make toggle swith for new or old style.
     
    #34 semmerset, Jan 15, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  35. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
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    That is really quite excellent! Simply wonderful.

    One question: Will the window size scale based on the number of properties?

    And.. A random idea....I notice that you have icons at the top, surrounding the item name... One looks like disarm, etc... Would it be possible on weapons to have those icons reflect the special abilities of the weapon, maybe with a mouse-over description?

    Keep up the great work!
     
    #35 Coldren, Jan 16, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  36. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    I don't know how you can like this shapeless mass of text, but yes, I can add a toggle if really necessary...

    of course the size is based on the number of props, but I don't think there is space for text under the weapon special... Obviously you can't put the mouse over a tooltip element :D
     
  37. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
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    This is true.. :)

    If possible (or sensible), is there any way you can make it a static window if the item is clicked on? One that stays open until you close it? Then you could mouse over it.

    Again, just random idea.. I have no idea how hard this is to code as is.... :D
     
  38. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    no, the properties mechanics are not completely UI side... anyways if you have some doubt on what is that picture, you can always open the abilities window and find which special have that picture :p
    I tried a textual version for the specials, but it's too ugly :(
     
  39. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
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    Well A for effort from me. It didn't dawn on me that the screen you had was already a hover over...

    Thanks for the information! :D I look forward to using this.

    [Edit]

    Also, just noticed - In your example, the leggings are coming up as Head Armor :)
     
    #39 Coldren, Jan 16, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  40. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    yes :D
    if you notice those leggings have also DPS, a head weapon :lol:

    The examples uses data that I've added manually just for testing :p


    Anyways, the weapons are almost done, I've just to check on japanese and chinese if it's all fine then I can move on the armor/jewel/shield layout :p
     
  41. Parnoc

    Parnoc Lore Master
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    It's wonderful!!!!! Do it please!!!!! And while you're at it, please check the SOS map, it's marking them in the wrong place.
     
  42. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Pinco totally loving it so far save one thing...... My ole eyes are really struggling with that dark bluish text against the black...... and it's SOOOOO tiny.... can we increase the font size a wee bit?