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Were you banned in the "mass banning"?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Wallenstein, Aug 11, 2008.

  1. Wallenstein

    Wallenstein Guest

    If you were banned recently and firmly believe you are innocent, please PM me with a brief description of what you lost and what you've been denied (i.e. a response from EA, etc.). I'm going to be using the information for an upcoming article on the UO Ledger regarding EA/Mythic Entertainment's Customer Support policies.

    Please, if you know why you got banned and know you're guilty, hold off on the PM. Thanks a lot :)

    Edit: Please read http://vboards.stratics.com/showpost.php?p=794887&postcount=19 - Thanks.
     
  2. Godiva_DF

    Godiva_DF Guest

    True jounalistic research ^^
     
  3. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    Yes.



    Oh, wait.. no, I wasn't. Must be because I don't cheat or deal in items that have ever been considered risky.
     
  4. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Yeah... LOL

    With the quality of these research practices, I'll be sure to not bother ever reading any of these articles.

    It's just a matter of time till they're publishing an article that claims that LBR saw aliens when he was up in space.
     
  5. Satanatra

    Satanatra Guest

    You're joking right? :loser:

    At best you are giving hackers a chance to further bull**** innocent players into being afraid. At worst you are attacking EA/Mythic for doing something we have all been asking for - doing their jobs.
     
  6. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    You're assuming he (she?) is going to be taking taking their stories at face value.

    Granted, the blurb was not encouraging! Sure sounds like it's going to be a hatchet job....

    I'm just saying it might not be.

    We'll have to see.

    -Galen's player
     
  7. Azazel of LA

    Azazel of LA Guest

    Wow this made my morning ..... your asking people known to be liars and cheaters to message you their story and then you will in return write an article on it? Can you tell me where this will be posted so I can make sure I dont waste my time reading it?
     
  8. Lucy of Kenton

    Lucy of Kenton Seasoned Veteran
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    it must be nice to be so sure that all banned were 'liars and cheaters' and that no mistakes were made. you do not notice a subtle difference between this time and the other times people have been banned?
    i also notice that despite somebody tell you its illegal penning stuff so it cant get at you that you dont wish to lose your luna home over something so stupid (as rules of uo)?
     
  9. Fizzleton

    Fizzleton Journeyman
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  10. Lord Sir Scott

    Lord Sir Scott Lore Keeper
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    I was not banned but i wish posts about it would be...
    as to what i have lost well a lot of reading time about banning vs thing that relate to UO

    To whom it may concern: We dont give a hoot if your banned...Please stop posting about it
     
  11. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    I happen to enjoy UO Ledger, but honestly, I have no desire to read another ounce of this bs from players who were banned. It's over. You're a day late and a dollar short of scooping this story. Let it go.
     
  12. RenaLynne

    RenaLynne Guest

    Its just news, right? Wow, dont think the op said he was supporting or not supporting anyone. Think he just wanted a story.
     
  13. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    It's worthwhile to dig into this. I don't believe the UO Devs acted with poor judgement, and I don't believe the banned players were innocent of hurting UO to an extreme. But it'll be interesting to see what this says anyways.
     
  14. Diggity

    Diggity Guest

    I don't know anyone who was banned myself. My initial reaction was also glad that Devs were doing something.

    I do believe the devs did use poor judgement and/or wording in the bans tho.

    If the items are truly highly illegal, to my mind, a better approach would have been to delete them all, put marks on all accounts with any highly illegal items. Put two marks on accounts with "many" illegal items and outright ban those with a multitude (ie 30 val hammers) of illegal items. I do feel bad for anyone who sold their legitimately obtained loot in player-player transactions _if_ they have banned only for having too many duped checks. Not sure _if_ they banned for too many barbed kits. I think these are mostly scripted on most shards tho. Same with heartwood quest items. No way to know what the banned items are tho.

    I believe they did not do this, because the majority or all the items they deemed highly illegal, can in fact be obtained legally thru normal play. Particularly checks. So it would be good to hear Jeremy state that no one was banned for having too many checks.

    OTOH, as I've said, I don't know anyone who was banned and I still see the heartwood scripters pretty much every time I go to heartwood. As other posts have stated, it seems business, except for val runics, as usual. So maybe the devs did get it right.
     
  15. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Well I happen to believe that EA MYTHIC would not intentionally ban and irreversibly delete the belongings of innocent, paying customers unless they were certain of guilt.
     
  16. NewThunder

    NewThunder Guest

    How, as a journalist, will you verify your sources. It would seem that any article on this matter would,by the nature of the game, lack any credibility.
     
  17. Black Betty

    Black Betty Guest


    Doesn't the fact that they had been investigating this for a decent period of time before banning folks give the rest of us the right to believe they are doing their job and what has been asked of us...."TO BAN THE CHEATERS/HACKERS/EXPLOITERS/DUPERS".

    I, merely seeing thread after thread about the same crap, am getting tired of it all. I can only imagine how they must feel dealing with all the emails and having to read the posts here as well.

    :drama:
    Yes, there may have been innocent folks caught in the net, but then again, if they had several illegal items on their account and caused it to be flagged, maybe not. Seems that most of the folks caught up in this deal with x-sharding and/or buying/selling higher end items that are also duped.

    Most of us have stayed as far away from all of that as possible, not only because it is obviously illegal, but because it is a part of what has helped to destroy this beloved game of ours.
     
  18. Fizzleton

    Fizzleton Journeyman
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    There is a difference in "believing" and "knowing", and it's fundamental. The less severe the outcome is for somebody, the less intense is the necessity to know. Taking away accounts that were build up in years of player activity is a severe thing, imho. Therefore you should know very well what you are doing, and I simply miss the proof of EA that they really knew.

    Sometimes, I can only laugh about habits here on the board. Are you really members of the western civilization? Do you really know your roots?

    "It didn't hit me, fine, let's move on! No cares, whatsoever, most important I can get my little "playing uo". Did you hear the breaking news about ggs in parrying?!"

    hehe. yeah, move on! :sleep2:
     
  19. Wallenstein

    Wallenstein Guest

    Whoa.. Just a heads up to those who didn't understand my original post.

    This article is not to back up people who were banned. I am rather writing it to outline how EA/Mythic has handled people's requests seeking why their accounts had been banned. Lots of people are claiming to be receiving some pretty harsh messages from EA when requesting a reason for their ban and this is what my article is about..

    I may or may not use any of the information that is PMed to me. I'm simply asking for PMs to get a general overall idea of what people have received.

    As I stated, it's going to cover the Customer Support policies. Nothing else. I'm just trying to get player input regarding what they were told by EA. It'd be hard to write an article about how players have been treated without talking to the source (i.e. the players).
     
  20. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    I have a feeling that any article that asks people to "be honest" probably will fail at being factual. I am sick of this issue, but since it keeps coming up, I need to respond to a few things:

    Then you are far more trusting than I am. Companies sometimes make mistakes against innocent, paying customers. Heck, sometimes people working for companies take malicious actions against innocent, paying customers. I won't trust a company to be competent just because it is in their best financial interest.

    The people at EA Mythic are human beings with all the problems. In UO's history, there have been confirmed cases of GMs who abused their powers (Darwin?), cases where people have been unbanned, and times where EA just made mistakes (Cyborg Blackthorne).

    It is very possible that some innocent, paying customer was banned with their items deleted by mistake. I'm just not sure if that actually happened. Without knowing what steps were taken during the investigation (for example, where shard backups looked at to see if certain duped items were found on vendors), I can't even give good probabilities that someone innocent was banned. A few extreme examples:

    1. Only the possession and number of duped items were looked at. High Probability that someone innocent was banned because of state of free trade in UO.

    2. Looking through server backups, individual duped items were traced to the original item they were duped from. The history is used to determine who purchased the item and for how much. Low probability that someone innocent was banned.

    Number two is problematic since server backups are once per day, and underpriced items on a vendor in Luna tend to sell in hours. Unless the item and vendor tracking has gotten a lot better (which is possible probably the dev team wouldn't want to tell a cheating public), I'm guessing only possession was looked at. It is possible that some dupers were stupid and kept a whole pile of illegal items, but the big time dupers usually use layers of accounts to protect their illegal funds. They will be back at work as soon as a new dupe is found. Until then, I guess they will script or hack accounts or something.

    I have a great deal of respect for those on the dev team working to fight cheating. Even if only a small part of the population is cheating, it is still likely more people cheating than working to fight cheating. Our dev team is outnumbered, and each time they fix one exploit, the other side is looking for or found more to exploit. I give them my patience and my respect, but I can't give them blind trust.
     
  21. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    If there was a "need for you to know anything, you'd know it. Beyond that, do you really think that a company would ban innocent, paying customers? Seriously? In the current state of the game and shortage of paying customers?

    Here's the bottom line..

    Those who dupe = guilty
    Those who support dupers by purchasing their goods = just as guilty

    All you need to know at this point is "Buyer Beware".
     
  22. Azazel of LA

    Azazel of LA Guest

     
  23. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Landicine, I don't think it's even possible for them to make a mistake on something of this order. It's a team, not any one individual, and judging from their past efforts in this regard, they do seem to have their sh*t together on this stuff.

    Besides that, there's legal ramifications here. There's real value with these accounts, and unless they can prove beyond doubt, they open themselves up to liability. They're not going to do that, and I think that "team" I mentioned is probably pretty large.
     
  24. Revenant2

    Revenant2 Guest

    I'm cool with what yer up to.

    And I think some of the people who are screwing with you in this thread either have reading comprehension issues or they are dorks.

    The way these bans were done (obviously) disturbed some of us. It's hard for me to believe that after all these years of experience with this sort of thing, they don't use what they have to rally the players behind them when they decide to do things like this. Instead they are like, **** all, and it's so unnecessary.
     
  25. Lucy of Kenton

    Lucy of Kenton Seasoned Veteran
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    thankyou fizzleton, not because you are supporting we banned ones but for viewing our cases logically.
    rl im a solicitor and part time police inspector and strangely UK law insists that there is not only a prosecution but a defence also.
    continuing the law aspect, most offences need a mens rhea (the intent or mental thought) and an acteus rheus (sorry if misspelled) the physical act of the offence. for most criminal offences the both should mostly be present.
    the act may be present for some banned people but the intent may not be. ie possess 1m barbed kits bought cheaply (btw before u flame this i had no runics on the acct) but not the intent to go against the tos.
    one day you the innocent player may return to your keep and find it gone and without doing anything wrong. jeez i had all my cash in it as didnt think any risk as i never did anything wrong.
    bring on the flames but i swear hand on heart to not having done anything wrong believe it or not and frankly my friends believe me so i dont give a stuff what others believe.
    nice to see some balanced folks with more inquisitive minds
     
  26. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    Mistakes are made even in real courts of law. For example:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exonerated_death_row_inmates

    Police officers and people to do forensics to collect evidence. A team of prosecutors. A judge. At least one lawyer defending. Most likely a full jury of twelve. Evidence and witness testimony. A full criminal trial. Mistakes were still made. Some of these people were executed before the mistake was found out.

    Since the dev team are human beings, mistakes are possible. It may be that no one innocent was banned. I don't have enough information to even correctly have an opinion on that. I do know that saying "no mistake was possible" is just as wrong as saying "everyone is innocent."


    Doesn't this assume you know the goods are duped? Buyer Beware is BS when there is no way to know exactly who you are dealing with. I have had trouble finding and contacting the owner of a vendor house, let alone a vendor with no character information on it. The idea that "if the price is too good, it must be a dupe" is flawed; for example, I have sold heritage tokens I cross-shard traded for below market price (mostly since I didn't know market price at the time). I've sold soulstone tokens at a low price, and they weren't duped. I have a friend who sells low on his vendor all the time, so I check it a few times a week. Buying low is a time honored UO tradition.
     
  27. shanshu

    shanshu Seasoned Veteran
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    I have not been able to log on to any shard.
     
  28. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    In my years of reading stratics Do you know how many innocents Have been banned? Every damn one!!! So they say in their SOB posts anyhow. The people who got banned this time around all deserved it

    A: These "Vets" were born just weeks before the ban and didn't notice all the cheap items popping up even with the bod changes you would never see so many hammers at once on all shards "Buyer Beware" warned by EA/Mythic after the vinecords.

    B: They felt like they had to Cheat to get to where they were in game by buying gold from brokers or dupers that was prob duped so the broker could make his/her car payment.

    C: Was a broker who made a living fencing Duped items so they wouldn't have to work a real job like most of the world does.

    D: Was a duper for the same reasons as the Broker.

    I feel no pitty for any of these people. EA has sent their warnings and said it will get worse if it continues. These idiots couldn't or wouldn't heed their warnings so they payed the price. I feel more for the people who got banned for the sig stuff, the people who got banned for words/speech, unattended skill macroers then I do for these people.

    These are the people who ruined the game I loved and it all starts with the idiot who has to cheat and buy their rewards/way to the top. if people didn't spend RL $ for a game then people wouldn't need to supply them at any cost be it duping or fencing the dupes.
     
  29. Lucy of Kenton

    Lucy of Kenton Seasoned Veteran
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    a. i never bought anything in the time leading up to the bans
    b. no never had to cheat, just work hard to get better than most
    c. im not a broker
    d. how do you dupe?
     
  30. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    "We" who?
     
  31. Rosalinda

    Rosalinda Journeyman
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    STOP READING THREADS LIKE THIS!! Silly person - do you not understand that a thread with the word "ban" in the title may have something to do with "banning"?? Go 'way!

    :lol:
     
  32. Makes sense to me and was how I interpreted your first post....its something going on in the community and needs an Unbiased report...or at least warrants one.
     
  33. Scratch

    Scratch Guest

    o.j. was innocent too

    lololololololololololololol
     
  34. Rosalinda

    Rosalinda Journeyman
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    I am as angry as you are about the way some people who care only about RL $ have been p'ing all over those of us who just want to get on and play the game as intended.

    What you're missing is the possibility that some, at least, of the banned people may share this view. Some, for sure, (let's hope!) will have been justifiably banned, but, considering you cannot know every one of them personally, you can hardly say with any credibility that they "ALL deserved it". Such omniscience is granted to none of us - be we players, Dev's, EA/Mythic corporately...

    It's encouraging to see that some of the contributers to this thread are taking a balanced view of the situation. Mere prejudice and dogma will not change facts, but will simply make you vulnerable to ridicule when you are shown to be in error. Remember, you have declared that ALL those who have been punished are guilty. All that is required is for one ban to be reversed...!

    (for the record: no, I've not been banned, yes, I AM twitchy, tho)
     
  35. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    First..

    if you are sick and tired of these threads DON"T OPEN THEM.. what a jacka** you are making of yourself. No one is forcing you to read and/or respond to these posts.


    Second...

    Nice to see how frigging judgmental you are. You assume way too much and you need to keep yer yap shut. Stop speaking for me.. I care about EA"s rules and I care how EA is responding to their customers complaints, questions and calls for communication.. cause.. wait for it you dim wit.. I'm giving them my hard earned money!

    Third....

    Once again for the slow of intellect... Peeps got banned for having illegal items in their possession.. quantity and item id's are unknown at this point. You managed to escape these bannings by sheer blind dumb luck.. since no one knows for certain what these items were and how many you had to have.. since.. EA NEVER COMMENTS ON THEIR ACTIVITIES.... hence.. the inherent unfairness of their actions!

    Stop being thick of intellect and deft of compassion. And for god's sake.. shut up! You don't speak for me, and you don't get to censor the posts on this forum.

    LORD Yalp of Zento, CTDM
     
  36. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Were you banned in the "mass banning"?

    Nope.
     
  37. Dodger

    Dodger Certifiable
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    I know someone who was, and who I believe was cheating, sad thing is Ive seen him since with a new account and a lot of stuff he probably should not have.
     
  38. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Wallenstein, I haven't contacted you regarding your article and I'm not planning to. However, here is some information you and others may find interesting.

    A few moments ago I received an e-mail from EA Outbound that reads as shown below.

    I haven't looked at the survey yet and I haven't made up my mind yet about whether I wish to speak to one of their quality review reps, so I have no further information to pass on at this point.

    Edited to add: Unfortunately, until I can verify that the link in the e-mail is safe to click, I won't be taking the survey. I'm more than a bit skittish about trusting it, since I received a bogus Paypal verification e-mail shortly after updating my e-mail address with EA's Customer Support site and have never used that e-mail address for anything other than on my UO accounts.
     
  39. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    Man, you better get concrete proof of innocence or you're going to look pretty stupid for even asking.

    Players got popped cause they screwed up.....the buying and trading is what did it. You buy gold, hey it could be counterfeit, same with the pixel crack.

    Earn your stuff the way the game was designed and you wouldn't be banned.


    good luck on this one.
     
  40. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    They banned COUNTLESS players for having faction sigil purple items...

    Around 2 years later they made those items 100% legal and people started cleaning out their stocks. The items still existed, and they didn't manage to ban nearly everyone, but they screwed people over just for having items that were eventually made legal. That is EAs track record with mass bannings, so I wouldn't be at all shocked if some of those that were banned were banned for barely any reason. However, I totally believe the majority got what they deserved.
     
  41. Fizzleton

    Fizzleton Journeyman
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    what I really, really miss is something Wilki did on occasions like this: Just come here, take the case one made on these boards and present the facts that were found with the account in question. It immediately stopped any dispute. Why doesn't EA take this step? Cause someone of Wilki's competence is lacking?

    Wilki is, in my view, a severe loss to the team, since he also was really competent in debating issues in a way that was appreciated by the community. He made clear, sound statements; I can't remember any incident where he took a questionable stand. Very sad he is gone.
     
  42. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest



    As I believe everyone who got banned had it comming,I don`t believe that theres any legal ramifications.How can there be when your only renting space? You own nothing ingame,it all belongs to EA. You can be let go at any time for any reason without so much as a hug.

    Everyone who got banned,along with everyone reading these posts need to remember a few things in the future. If you are buying a super rare item and for some reason theres a bunch of other/like super rare items,its prolly duped.I mean really,everyone who posts here must read info here alot.So why would someone like myself NOT buy a hammer or 30 from a player selling an unending stock of them? Ummmm because its so obvious that they were duped,at least to me.

    I have no sympathy for the banned because simply by posting here says you are no n00b.You`ve got access to most of the info out there.Its up to you to stay away from things like SUPPORTING the activities of cheaters buy buying from their vendors which for sum reason....never run outa them Val hammers....or whatever they may be peddeling. Its not rocket science.:thumbsup:
     
  43. Erekose

    Erekose Seasoned Veteran
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    There are no legal ramifications. Legally speaking, EA owns all of the pixels. The fact that one can sell those pixels for real money is irrelevant. The monthly subscription fee is an expense not an investment.
     
  44. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    There could be some legal ramifications. Selling something that does not belong to you can be considered Theft to fraud.
     
  45. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Thats why EVERY site and EVERY player that sells items always has a disclaimer that says something like:

    You are not bidding on the actual items you are bidding on the time and investment it took to get the items. The items themselves are property of EA.
     
  46. monnie101

    monnie101 Guest

    Boy some of you people are paranoid schizophrenics or something and believe everything EA tells you. I don't blame you I mean you have to play UO like you're a paranoid schizo or else you'll get griefed and scammed.

    This person is doing a story and investigation. It's fine if you believe every single thing EA does and I'm sure you're the same person that believes everyone sent to jail is innocent and that the government is the most honest entity in the country, but it's not true. You should turn off your mainstream media TV and do a little investigation.

    Their has been people innocently banned where EA has admitted it but you all obviously easily forget and easily forgive. Ignorance is bliss
     
  47. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    Well what YOU believe and what is the truth is 2 diff things then .......
     
  48. Tom Bombadil

    Tom Bombadil Guest

    r u serious? lol
     
  49. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Last week I made a couple of posts regarding my efforts to have EA's Customer Support area verify the authenticity and safety of several e-mails that seemed to originate from them that invited me to complete a customer service survey. Today I finally received a response to my latest round of questions. For whatever it's worth to anyone who has any interest in EA's customer support surveys or policies, below is the response I received.

    One further note: A friend told me late last week that he had the same thing happen with receiving bogus e-mails after providing an e-mail address to EA through their Customer Support system. He said he talked to Jeremy about it in person at one of last year's Town Hall meetings.
     
  50. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    here could be some legal ramifications. Selling something that does not belong to you can be considered Theft to fraud.

    Well, considering that what you are "selling" is the SERVICE of transferring EA-owned data from one EA-owned database entry to another EA-owned database entry (said database entries being "controlled" by paid accounts), and since EA does not "lose" money from these sales (because for the most part they do not sell these items, OR these items are sold on the secondary market after being purchased from EA (like selling a used CD or game to the appropiate shop)), then there's no legal ramification for LEGITIMATELY playing RMT salespeople.

    The ONLY legal issue that MIGHT arise would be dupers who create items that are for sale via the UO Store (i.e. transfer tokens, special release item token and so on). But for UO gold, there really isn't a legal issue, just a gameplay rules issue.