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We'v been asking for nerf, but how about 3/6 casts?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Splup, Jan 8, 2010.

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  1. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Heya,

    Anyone who has been reading these archers threads know that I'm one of those who have been asking for archers to be tweaked down a bit.

    In one thread someone suggested that how about instead of nerfing archers, they gave mages 3/6 casts.

    What do you think? What would the total effect of this be? Would it make PvP field "too fast" ?

    I'm not saying this would be the best solution, but I would like to see some discussion about this matter, if it really would be good solution.
     
  2. Black Spirit

    Black Spirit Guest

    Please stop complaining and trying to change the game for everyone
    Thx
     
  3. Chap

    Chap Babbling Loonie
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    Ive though of this some days ago, but ended up discarding the idea.

    If you take a look at the new player perspective, PvP goes fast.
    a 3/6 combination would be even faster spam of spells MA,FB,HH,weaken etc

    this would be bad for recruiting new players into PvP.



    As for a way to deal with the currently gimped archers, it would work.

    But as a general rule, if something is overpowered its not a good idea to overpower something else to make it equal. other classes will get hurt by this.

    mages are not the only class wich have to cope with OP archers.
     
  4. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Can't do that sry.
     
  5. Splup

    Splup Guest

    That's what I was thinking too, if it makes already hard class to master even harder. Especially this smallspellspamming part.
     
  6. jbfortune

    jbfortune Slightly Crazed
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  7. Bombastic Fail

    Bombastic Fail Certifiable
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    This post = win. I'm with Paper. :party: :lol:
     
  8. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    I wish I can use one of my dexers and have an official duel against the best mage player on DEV team (i will be suprisied if there's even one DEV that have ever tried to play a long mage on one of the real shards).

    This is about the only way people would know how ******** today's PvP is.
    I will use a 500 skill point dexer against a DEV's 720 skill point mage... and I will make him suffer and realize how "godly powerful" his full power mage is. I am pretty sure on open field everything goes fight I can kill him despite I am 220 skill point short.
     
  9. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Too bad in UO currently if mages is ROCK then SCISSORS do not exist in game. And dexers are like PAPER while a few variations of them are like GUN.

    Flame on. :lol:
     
  10. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    Everyone realizes there was a bug with archers, correct? How they were working is NOT how they're supposed to. I'm far more concerned with a dread mare hitting me for 120 damage with a fireball, explosion, FS, melee combo in under 3 seconds.
     
  11. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    I laugh at mages that cry about Archers...

    With faction items, imbuing, 50 pots and balms it is very easy to get to 80 dex on mage and still have 120 hps and 150 mana.

    Get Parry, simple!

    I play a 120 archer with max HCI and 70 HLD and can never hit a parry mage with 3 shots in a row, hell im lucky to hit 4 out of 10, regardless of the bow!

    The problem is that no one wants to play a MAGE, you want a NECRO, SW, MYST or TAMER MAGE!!

    Please remember is is your choice as to the template you play and everything has a price!!

    If you dont like getting hit by archers, pick up Parry!!

    Save spawn or PVM you char should be ready to fight any template!


    You change because I am not!!!


    * if you already have parry you just can't play a mage*
     
  12. Chap

    Chap Babbling Loonie
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    Since when was the game all about survival? Yeah you uber tweaked your char to MAX defence, but hey you cant do any dmg to your enemy. then dexter will survive too due to healing faster than dmg delivered.

    its great to play the Ultima survival online.
     
  13. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Why don’t you just leave like you said you were going to? Or adapt to the new imbuing system like everyone else and stop crying?

    1v1 mages are too overpowered as it is. 3v1 your going to die regardless of what template your on. 3 mages have more power than 3 archers

    Oh and try playing away from YEW gate, do some dungeon PvP with your mage where you are unstoppable
     
  14. Coyt

    Coyt Guest


    all i was able to read
     
  15. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    Sorry but 3/6 casting is just to fast for magery spells, specially the lower circle spells. When we could have 4/6 casting you really did not need the 4 the 3 casting was fast enough. I am not sure if you played back then but if you did then you do not have good memory of how fast it was.
     
  16. Coyt

    Coyt Guest

    considering your other thread about speedhacking , i dont think you really want faster casting but someway to beat them archers who runs away as soon you load up a spell,

    i think best things here would be :

    serverside limit on movment speed (same for both 2d and EC of cource)
    mount stamina (stops you from running forever)
    animal form changes (stamina moves down quick/unable to drink TR, delay on transforming)
     
  17. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    finally, an honest commentary ;D
     
  18. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Description of Moving Shot via Stratics:
    This special move allows archers or throwers to fire while on the move. This shot is somewhat less accurate than normal, but the ability to fire while running is a clear advantage.

    Result:
    HLD reduces target's DCI by 25, which means 70 DCI is required for opponent's defense while only 45 HCI is required for archer/thrower. Of course, the opponent could use HLA, which would reduce HCI by 25, however, moving shot wouldn't really matter in this situation unless two archers are fighting each other, which is about the saddest circumstance one could ever imagine in UO PvP (then again, the use of Feint could control some of the outcome). So, unless the "less accurate" means -25 HCI, that's pretty unbalanced.

    Leave cast at 2/6. Replace Moving Shot special w/ Splintering Arrow, except, unlike Splintering Weapon (included at end for reference), Splintering Arrow would be just like Bleed Attack, would not stack with Bleed Attack, and would not force walking like Splintering Weapon does.

    Bows affected:
    Heavy Crossbow (Dismount, Splintering Arrow)
    Composite Bow (Armor Ignore, Splintering Arrow)
    Repeating Crossbow (Double Strike, Splintering Arrow)
    Soul Glaive (Armor Ignore, Splintering Arrow)

    Other specials if Splintering Arrow is not preferred: Double Shot (req Bush/Ninj and to be mounted), ... not sure what else really, haha.

    Splintering Weapon
     A glass shard breaks off from the weapon, striking the victim to cause a bleed effect and forced walking
     Stacks with the regular bleed effect to cause additional damage and extend the duration of the special attack
     
  19. longshanks

    longshanks Guest

    70 hld?

    i'm assuming you mean 30 on mace and shield and 40 on your weapon.

    i believe it does not stack but gives u two instances of a chance of 30 than
    40?

    lotta archers these days. archers on dreads, archers on dogs, archers stealthing. imbuing makes 180 stamina easily attainable and ssi jewelry and hats are seen all over.

    is this such a bad thing?

    i dont know. i've only played short of 3 years but in my time on these boards it seems someone is always complaining about the latest temp for killing.

    6 months ago it was all about greater dragons in pvp.
     
  20. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    correct; or rather, they do not stack to 70, it's less as a result
     
  21. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    Best post EVER mind if i borrow it?

    AWSOME
     
  22. chad

    chad Sage
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    As I was browsing U-hall, I came across this thread and another thread regarding reagents giving an sdi bonus. I am in total agreement that mages are currently underpowered and that archery is overpowered.

    I feel as though adding an sdi bonus from reagents would balance them out nicely.
     
  23. Damien Softstep

    Damien Softstep Visitor

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    90% of the time when 90% of the PvP'ers play a template of the month it gets nerfed then the 90% go to the other template of the month...

    Remember when bushido first came out with over 100 damage hits?
     
  24. Clog|Mordain

    Clog|Mordain Lore Master
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    I agree archers are overpowered, in ways...

    OP side:

    • Mortal Spam
    • Dismount

    Yes I know Balanced is not on there. Because it is not overpowered, With every other weapon skill, you have the ability to switch to a one-handed weapon and chug a pot, thus leaving your DCI still up. Where as, with archery, they cannot, without Balanced they are forced to drop their weapon thus losing their DCI.

    Now if you cannot beat an archer on a mage 1v1 learn to play a mage.. There are so many way to beat one..

    • Stay Close (reduces the damage done by velocity)
    • Blood Oath (if on a necro)
    • Keep them poisoned as much as possible
    • And finally... Be Patient...

    And I have both a Archer and a mage, so I can see both sides of the story. Someone who can play a mage really well can bring my archer down 90% of the time, and yes he carries balanced bows..

    Now lets see who flames this...

    EDIT:

    No! Think, 15% SDI from items. 10% from scribe. Say what, 5-10% from regs. So 35% damage increase, can you imagine how overpowered that would be? 55 damage flamestrikes while cursed. Then add the possibility of omen in there... around 70 damage? So then add an explosion infront of it... Insta-Death!
     
  25. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    What you think about moving shot though? That's the main problem to most PvP mages from my experience. Personally, when I get dismounted by one guy, 9 times out of 10 I kill them right after they dismount me :/. In groups, well, no reason to complain if you get dismounted by a group really. Mortal, depends on what other skills you have, harder on a pure, pretty easy on a Necro w/ SS.

    Either way, I agree, a "no" to the regs for extra SDI. I can corpse skin exp fs fs pain spike a lot of people to death as it is, give me more SDI and that just makes mages too tough off screen. I'd rather archers get balanced before Mythic throws more damage in the PvP pot. Removing moving shot or tweaking the mana consumption for the moving shot special after repeated uses best ways to balance in my opinion. Same should probs be done for disarm, because it's a lame special to chain.
     
  26. chad

    chad Sage
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    I never claimed to lose 1v1, but that is simply because I am better than the majority of people that play this game. That doesn't mean archers aren't overpowered. The better pvpers in game typically play a mage, the lesser player typically play archers. That's the only reason a mage should ever win.
     
  27. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    Archers are overpowered it's that simple.... Don't even get me started on a Dreadmare / Bake Dismount Archer lol ... You really just can't fight 2 spell spaming creatures + 1 50% EP chuggin , 4 sec bandy Archer...


    Anyway.. My idea for Tweaking MAGES some.



    ---Hide the Words of power for spells in some fashion... Require magery to know what your opponent is casting or some such. If an archer had to GUESS when to offscreen it would be alot better I think.
     

  28. That's a good idea. It'll make pvp more interesting and might reduce the current mage-archer imbalance a little.
     
  29. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Just curious if you forgot about the spell casting delay that was put in place some time ago. This of course was before everyone and their little brother had double hit spell balanced bows and uber 500 intensity dexxer weps and 15/15 50 ep jewels. Its again important to remember these things when looking at the state of PvP in UO.

    If you think dexxers are worse for wear than mages by the archers...you should look again. Unlike most dexxers...the mage template is very selective when it comes to the ability to disarm. In fact...in order to compete...most mage MUST rely on a mage weapon since the template has over time become more crowded...fitting more skills in has become less the option. Even with imbuing, factions, and skill items...mage temps are still on the short end of the stick.

    Back to this casting deal...there was a delay of .5 added some time ago...roughly around the same time tactics was required for mages to do special moves. Since the weps themselves are now faster, I see little other recourse other than to revamp specials costs and increase mage casting to AT LEAST where it was before the last delays were added. Again, to be clear I said mage spells...and limitations should still be included against chiv mages.

    Something needs to happen...honestly at this point its time for someone to step up to the plate and administer some nerf action.
     
  30. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    And that's why you'll keep on dieing
    :(
     
  31. So last night i was killed by 3 mages in under 2 seconds. The 3 mages all had explode pre cast off screen, then 1 cast corps skin while the other 2 did a flame strike. Within 3 tiles i was dead.

    Now thats what i call over powered.
     
  32. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    Enhanced *gasp* Apple?
     
  33. Parry *GASP* DCI

    see it works both ways...Mages are over powered

    Edit: I was good mages who killed me, and i never got a chance to apple!!! Not mages from FEW
     
  34. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Getting owned by three mages is supposed to happen, same as three archers or three tamers or three anything PvP. If you want balance from that you are basically asking for "God mode," and you're not going to get it. Now, if one mage kills you in 2 seconds, then you have a basis for argument over what class is overpowered or not.

    But old adage hasn't really changed since the get-go, if the dex/arch hits first, they have advantage, if mage precasts, they have advantage. If you get ganked, you got ganked, end of story, haha. UHall doesn't care when people get ganked :(.
     

  35. But..But...But, thats what Splup is crying about, dieing to 3+ archers.

    My point is the same as yours. 3 x any template you die. He who lands the first strike takes the advantage.

    Things are balanced as it is. We need to be able to solo kill people and i think its hard to kill a good mage 1v1 with an archer.

    Good mages are few and far between but when you get a good one who knows how to play, they clean up 1v1 or 3v3, but when the odds are uneven expect to die what ever template your on.
     
  36. Splup

    Splup Guest

    I don't die to 3 mages with my archer, atleast I die very rarely. Only if they get me trapped and one of them feeblemind spams instead of dumping so I don't get my telescroll off. But I know where I can get trapped and avoid those spots, I play mainly mage afterall. Rest is just to see when they are syncdumping and take off before they get to target and come back when full health. 3 mages can't kill me with precasted spells, I have 150 HP and their precasted spells mage max 93 dmg (3x scribemage FS against my 70 resist) If one of them evilomens they maybe make like 100dmg total.

    But I do die 3 archers with my mages. Except if I get to tele to a platform and get away. Thou I have killed some with my mage 1on1, usually cause those archers have always played their simple template and never learned how mages work and can't "think like a mage".

    Thou I can't recall saying that I should be able to fight 3 archers with my mage, I'd like to see that quote.

    Thing is, archers make way too much damage when considered that they are able to fully defend while attacking. Archer dying 1on1 against ANY magetemplate around is just a really crappy player... Can 1 archer kill parrymage easy? No, but it's just a matter of RNG when it happens cause if the archer ain't stupid parrymage will Never kill him.
     
  37. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Yeap, cause our spells go off slower then other mages lol, and Explo FS is a really hard combo to master (or predict to happen ehh...)

    Man, if you can't push apple button during the time it takes to cast FS, maybe you need to find a little less intense game rolleyes:

    Why didn't you start running at the point you saw them casting those Flame strikes? You would'v been offscreen before they get the target cursor...
     
  38. Maybe you didnt read eh..i said they pre cast explode off screen before i even seen them. When they stared to cast flame strike i didnt even know i was the target, buy the time i seen i was the target and hit my apple macro i was dead.
     
  39. Do i have to drag up the post where you said you dont like to 1v1 you like to group/field pvp. So i asume that you play 3v3 4v3 2v3 etc etc. So if any bunch of GOD Archers target one of your group it then becomes 3v1..or is my maths wrong?

    Your prblem is that your guild is no longer the Zerg of the shard and now GOD have more numbers than you, You find you are dieing a lot more. I dont see PWN QQing due them being a 4 man guild and for most of the time being the only SL guild on the shard, who got there ass hammered day in day out by you and your group of tammer/archers or tammer mages. But they come out fighting insted of QQing like you are doing.

    Grow some balls and learn to adapt like everyone else. Or do as you said you would in one of your last QQing threads.....leave when your game time runs out
     
  40. Splup

    Splup Guest

    And after that I would not be judging who's a good mage and who's not, since you clearly have never played mage in PvP rolleyes

    But what's the issue with you going for personal attacks in every thread? I mean you can't have a decent conversation?

    Few posts and then all you'r saying is "you suck in PvP" "Learn to PvP" etc.etc. Geezh.

    I mean after that Alezis Apple post you could posted "I was outta apples" "I didn't figure out to use it" "I was lagging" but instead you went with some bollock excuse that those mages were so good that all you could do is stand still watch them casting FS and die. And then you add "Those mages were good unlike you!" yep yep.

    Thou the real reason is that that situation was made up, cause I see no other reason for someone standing in screen 3vs1 while the 3 mages are going off with flame strikes and corpse skin. Am I right here?

    And you got me pulled to this personal attack crap. Well, I'm willing to talk about the subject if you have something real to say instead of trying to put words to My mouth like that "Splup is crying cause he can't beat 3 archers with 1 mage" which I have never said.

    But I'm done with personal remarks about someones PvP skills cause anyone playing Europa knows very well who has skills and who doesn't, even thou people rarely admit someone else being good then their own guild members. And ppl who don't play Europa have no clue who either of us is so what's the point. Or maybe we should post some kill screenie slideshows here and bore everyone to death?

    You clearly think that archers are not overpowered, so instead of going to personal remarks about someone's PvP skills why not write some couple good arguments to backup your opinion?

    I would gladly debate about the matter, but I can't be arsed to be arguing on stratics boards who's good in PvP and who's not, atleast in UHall. Especially cause that just gets the thread locked (Or is that what you are going for?)

    So, have a good saturday and hope you enjoy what ever you are doing this evening.
     
  41. Yeah, you run up to a group of three enemies, who all suspiciously turn and face you (as they target their Explosions), Corpse (isn't everyone Corpse Proof?) and Flame Strike you and at no point do you think in this 3v1 situation that you're the target. What did you think, that they were casting on each other?
     
  42. Splup

    Splup Guest

    What does that have to do with my post? I said I have never said I should beat 3 archers with 1 mage, didn't say I have never been ganged 3vs1. And yes, I like group battles lot more, but our vent has been pretty empty lately like you stated later also.

    We'v never been a zerg (HL was for few months back in the days but not FEW).



    Are PWN even 4? Can't remember last time I actually fought 1, but when I did I only saw them on archers so maybe they don't feel like asking for a boost to mages or to increase moving shot mana cost. Or maybe they just don't write on these forums, like I knew. But they been "QQing" what ever you mean by that to us many times ingame, sometimes for reason and sometimes not (back when PWN was actually active). But I have no hard feelings against them in any way.

    Not sure actually if I will take a break, seems like I'm not even nere alone with my opinion so maybe we will see a change.
    edit: By that I mean that situation is not quite balanced at the moment, not that there should be FC 3 for mages. Like I said in OP, I just wanted to have a discussion what it would mean in the field, not that it would be the best solution.

    But you should keep in mind that most of the people here who agree with me, do not even play Europa. And the guild you are referring to all the time is not even that active. So instead of saying that I would be getting owned by a guild I pretty rarely see on, you should be reasoning to everyone here why you think the situation is balanced the way it is.
     
  43. How can we debait anything when all you do is cry about getting killed by archers. Thats all your doing, if you were not being killed by archers, you would not be needing to write these thread. So now we have established that your dieing, the only reason i can think of is your dieing due to your lack of skills.

    As you can see there are quite a few mages saying here that they can kill dexters/archers and they think things are fine the way they are.

    120 Parry and 70+ DCI is a mages best friend.

    My argument is clear:

    I CANT HIT A MAGE WHO HAS 120 PARRY AND 70 DIC
    I may hit 1 shot in 4. so why cant you just addapt if archers are a problem.

    Its your refusal to adapt that is the real problem
     
  44. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Getting ganked is overpowered? LOL...fail
     
  45. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    News for you...
    1) dci does not stack...however HLD resets everytime it goes off.
    2) parry does not kill people...it only allows a mage to stay alive longer.
    3) mages can precast...archers have an arrow ready.
    4) Archers can attack without stopping to toggle a special...mages cannot do the same with a spell. (.5 second minimum stopping delay per every spell)
    5) its debate...not debait...this is not fishing...its UO.
    6) skill is not required to play an archer...however magery requires thought with most spells if the mage wishes to stay alive. (an archer only has to hit bandy...refresh pots...and toggle the running shot special)
     
  46. chad

    chad Sage
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    Your suit must be horrendous or you were naked. One heal pot and I would not have died to that on ANY character of mine...that is, if I were dumb enough to stay on screen with three people dumping on me.

    Archers are capable of 35-50 damage armor ignores in 0.0 seconds. Followed by another 35-50 in 1.5-2 seconds, dependent on how well they build their suit. That is potentially 70-100 damage in the amount of time it takes a mage to cast curse...and you're telling me mages are overpowered?
     
  47. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Forgot to mention that they are able to heal themselves while doing it rolleyes:
     
  48. Ehh see few posts up and you will see Splup does not like to do 1v1 so i put forward an example of feild fighting lastnight 3v1. I think most of the pvp in UO is 3v2 2v4 1v3 10v1 10000000v10.

    So these posts are all about ganking when you boil it down, or are you telling me youre getting pwned 1v1 via moving shot archers?

    120 parry + 70 DCI (and DCI does stack try it, no wonder youre dieing if you only have 15 DCI)

    again just as you apear to be short sighted:
    I CANT HIT A MAGE WITH 120 PARRY AND 70 DCI

    its embarsing to miss so many shots.

    If youre not running with 120 PARRY and 70 DCI then adapt.


    Just so you dont miss it:

    I CANT HIT A MAGE WITH 120 PARRY AND 70 DCI
     
  49. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    You must be a bad archer :p Just kidding.

    What you are experiencing is within the realm of possibility. You should only be hitting a 120 parry/wrestle mage with 70dci about 30% of the time. That is no matter WHAT specials or hit effects go off.

    However, there are some special people I've run into that will hit my 120 parry/wrestle mage with 70dci five shots in a row EVERY time I run into them. I know the random number generator is quirky... but it is amazing how it is quirky to the benefit of only some people.

    We won't talk about some of the PvP templates out there where characters seem to have about 840 skill points on their character with 2/6 casting, mage weapon, etc.:thumbup1: (Yes, there IS a bug out there that allows a free 120 skill points)
     

  50. Yes you are correct in what you say. I have come across people who hit me every time regardless of my DCI and Parry. Same people every time. Then thre are others who just cant hit me for the want of trying
     
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