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What Annoyingpast Bug/exploit/imbalance Was Ignored While Some Fluff Was Implemented?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by MoonglowMerchant, Jun 13, 2008.

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  1. So, in an effort to highlight an ongoing pattern of failures to fix longstanding issues in favor or short lived alternatives, I offer this thread.

    Please explain a past bug/exploit/or imbalance that was ignored for too long and name one silly addition that went in during that duration.

    I'll start.

    Mine is ROT on Siege. Age of Shadows was released 6 or 7 years ago? In all that time ROT has never been adjusted to account for the skill cap going from 100 to 120. ROT was meant for the last thirty points, not the last 50.

    During that time it is very difficult to single out one thing that was fixed while this simple adjustment went untended, but I'll try!

    I'd say at the top of my list of silly changes would be...*drum roll*...the new minimap!! I forget what developer spent his free time working on the new minimap when there wasn't anything wrong with the old one. But, I sure wish he would have fixed ROT instead!!

    Your turn!
     
  2. Jeremy

    Jeremy Guest

    ROT is not nearly as simple as you think, I have been assured. It's on our list, but will take a fair amount of careful testing and research before we can tweak it. (I had hoped it was a one-line change, but it looks like it's not.)
     
  3. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    The abuse of all types of 3rd party programs in PvP has gone on for years and never been addressed.

    I can't even count all the stupid, useless fixes added during the past 10 years.
     
  4. Well that explains it!! Years aren't enough time eh? Decades are required!!

    In the meantime, please spend more time making holiday chocolates and bee hives.

    *growls*
     
  5. Jeremy

    Jeremy Guest

    You've heard the utilitarianism argument enough in regards to Siege that I probably don't have to actually repeat it, but fill it in mentally here :p
     
  6. Good point. Who wants customers anyway? Ignore them and they will go away.
     
  7. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    OMG this is my biggest complaint with the EA/Devs. They spend time on stupid useless holiday gifts or holiday test shards but not on real in game issues.

    Maybe PvP isn't balanced but at least I have my piece of bacon to comfort me rolleyes:

    PvPers end up like this :stretcher:
    The rest end up like this :popcorn:
     
  8. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    MM & o2, maybe one day you'll have to do something in real life that involves changing an already existing item.

    It's a lot easier in many cases to make new items than to modify complicated older ones, and you can often have new people do the new items, while it takes the experienced hands to do the modifications. This is especially true for computer coding

    To give an example, it's a lot easier to build a new house, than make extensive modifications to an existing one. The latter MAY be cheaper, in terms of supplies, but will often take MUCH longer. And, quite often, once you actually LOOK at what the modification requires, things might become difficult, or near impossible given time and money constraints (example: opening up a wall or a subroutine, and finding out the contents are NOT what was indicated on the design plans, isn't all that different - or uncommon. And they both cause MAJOR headaches for the people havign to fix them)

    Which is one of the reasons why "Extreme Makeover Home Edition" typically knocks down the existing house and builds a new one, in about a week (using MUCH bigger construction teams than one normally has on a site), while shows about "flipping" houses for resale (or even restoration/update shows like "This Old House") often talk about the MONTHS the projects will take, as the upgrades have to be done sequentially, instead of being simultaneous installs like in a new structure. Working on old, barely documented, code written by others is little different.
     
  9. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    The peacemaking exploit has yet to be fixed after 6 months of it confirmed being in the bug queue and possibly being in there for much longer. Most recently it has been used to slaughter Vanguards during this event and facilitate the farming of 10th Anniversary artifacts for the turn-in. It is the exploit that keeps on giving.
     
  10. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    The abuse on message boards of the human ability to whine.

    While a necessary coping mechanism and I'd suspect strongly it helped us evolve (and yes I mean that seriously), it has reached epic proportions.

    -Galen's player
     
  11. Ok, let me explain this to you another way.

    Q: Who is to blame for the low population on Siege and in UO in general.
    A: EA

    The point of this thread is to point out the sillyness in the development of this game. It won't matter, but it gives me something to do until next month when I re-activate another account, move the stuff from the house to the bankbox, and give it away, if I can.

    Q: Why is UO's population down?
    A: Because EA provides inadequate resources and when resources are allocated, they are misused.

    Would you like some examples? Ok. ROT has been broken now for years. People don't come to Siege because 1. It takes forever to train 2. They can't transfer here 3. They can't start here.

    EA could fix all that. But, they don't.

    Q: Oh but Siege is so small why would they?
    A: I don't know, why don't they fix scripting, or item inflation, or in-game harrassment, or duping or any of the other myriad issues that go unchecked while we get more crud to turn in for more crud, i.e. waste time and resources.

    Look, I don't expect you to do anything. Your job is to keep me believing that things are going to get better for as long as you can. Well, not me, but anyone who is still listening.

    Ugh.
     
  12. You are mistaken. I completely understand that it is easier to make new things than it is to fix old ones. What I am calling into question is the wisdom of doing so.

    Think about all the time it took to code all the holiday stuff over the years that is absolute junk and now we have to code a new system because there is too much junk and it has to be gotten rid of.

    Now, think about using that time and resources to fix significant in-game issues like ROT on Siege or scripting or duping or whatever.

    We are being milked. You know that, I know that. I don't actually mind being milked if I get something for my trouble but regurgitated spawn events and more useless crud ain't it.
     
  13. K'torr

    K'torr Guest

    The HUGE lag spike I get hit with anytime I come out of Ninja Animal Form. Any where from 3 to 30 seconds, COMPLETE client lockup.
    "Dismounted" while in animal form is the same as a 1 hit kill.
     
  14. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    And when any of your questions and "answers" have any bearing on reality, let us know - because you don't have the slightest clue about what you're talking about.

    Fixing code is something for those with experience with the code. More often than not, the "fluff" you complain about "taking away time from fixing code" is stuff that they do on their OWN FREE TIME - not on the clock, and sometimes at home, that they then bring into work. Some of the new event spawning systems started that way. The rest of the time, the "fluff" is stuff done by new team members, to get familiar with the code.

    In EITHER case, the stuff is often GRAPHICS fluff, that is done by people who DO NOT HAVE THE TRAINING OR SKILLS involved with fixing the game code itself. There's a lot of difference between sketching someone's picture, and performing corrective surgery on a deformed body.

    If you'd read the old boards over the last few years, you'd know that.
     
  15. Mulch

    Mulch Guest

    Randomizing resources for a change in system that may or may not come.

    Fluff might be handing in of trash that packrats kept instead of getting them to open more accounts for their addiction.:stir:
     
  16. Who are the new team members?
     
  17. Ah! THATS why your so wrong ... Your confusing the perspicacity of what is and what is done ...

    We aren't .... but cows CAN now be ...
    *whew*

    Simple confusion between "which side of the keyboard" .... "We" are on ...

    *Milks the metaphore dry, double clicks a dagger and harvests the last useful bits of meat and hide*

    Ack! a Harpie ....
    run run run run ....
     
  18. Is there a way to put someone on ignore on this board?

    If you know how, please post screenshots. That would help.
     
  19. This is actually a good argument for a Siege discount. Why do we pay the same as everyone else when we get less?

    2.99 a month sounds good.
     
  20. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Sick of reading his dumb comments too huh?

    [​IMG]


    Now if I could just get people to stop quoting his posts :sad2:
     
  21. Mulch

    Mulch Guest

    Are you sure he is?
     
  22. Thank you so much!!
     
  23. Krystal

    Krystal Sage
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    when a whole shard wants something so badly, that we been fighting for, for over 7 months now, how can u take ur time on fixing ROT?? we have been so patient too, i just dont understand how you all can treat us like this. our shard is dying. we are literally begging for help. Devs dont respond to us, devs give us candid replies or none at all. i so much love siege perilous, SP is 90% of people who have played production shards last stop. if they arent happy here thy quit uo. ROT is too long, they already built thier chars on a prodo shard, they dont want to spend 6 months building more. why cant you all understand this? All we want is EA to help us repopulate our shard :(
     
  24. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Way to come off like an EA "puppet" and dont talk to me like I don't know what i'm talking about!

    I can just as easily say that if EA read the boards they would know that we want the game fixed! BUT THEY DONT FIX IT.

    I've been in the tech industry for 15 years so I know exactly what they are going through, probably better than you.

    New employee or not, I don't want them spending time on FLUFF or new in game content or a new Release like Stygian Abyss!! I want them to spend time on fixes and game balances!!

    It seems to me that you as well as EA have not "read the old boards over the last few years."

    Also with all the issues they decide to introduce new pets? WHAT IS UP WITH THAT!!

    FIX THE CURRENT ISSUES!! I am a paying customer, I don't care about the excuses, and I don't want to hear about them. I want action!!

    If this was any other type of business you would no longer be in business!! Only in the software industry do people put up with POOR/SLOPPY programing.

    If EA was selling a fridge that didn't cool anyting, but did come with a lovely flower when you baught it, you think they would sell many fridges?

    Get real! Get the bugs fixed!!
     
  25. Mulch

    Mulch Guest

    Is the 'blessed item' problem on SIEGE actually fixed now?
    I remember asking SIEGE players for a fix for years with many problems about the fixes.
     
  26. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Quite true...
    Siege is a niche shard, with limited appeal...
    If they'd made Siege a production shard, like all the others, it would get an equal share of the pie.

    Fixing ROT will not make all of your troubles go away.
    You're complaining about the biscuits, while an elephant stands in the corner.
     
  27. "Pretty" sure :cool:

    Else why the detailed primer on how to put "their"(selective) ... fingers in their ear's(figuratively) and continue with the game bashing [​IMG]
    hummm ??

    Their PM's broke? or haven't figured out how to use them ?

    The only thing most of "them" are missing ... is white shirts, black ties, and bicycles to ride about on ...
    Don't need those on the internets ... *bing* there they are, on your screen, pushing veiw points and certainty and "truth" ...

    Thing is ... upon reflection ... "ingame" and in "real life" ... the "milked" have no choice .... no "volunteerisim"

    Burma Shave
     
  28. Mulch

    Mulch Guest

    I think he is right



    Mulching...a process of inbred fertilization which employs certain decomposed organic materials--including but not limited to animal sediment--to blanket an area in which vegetation is desired. The procedure enriches the soil for the stimulated plant's development while, at the same time, preventing erosion and decreasing the evaporation of moisture from the ground."
     
  29. K'torr

    K'torr Guest

    Bottom line is that EA/Mythic has little interest putting much resources into fixing UO because they see the fact that UO is on its way out. The game is on life support. No advertising, poor customer support, buggy as hell game play and inaction on scripting and exploits (because scripters and hacks pay for accounts too). Just enough will be added to keep it breathing in order get as much as they can before some pencil pusher down in accounting says, "OK, pull the plug".

    EA/Mythic is a corporation. If any of you actually think they care about anything other than the bottom line, then you are a fool.

    This is why, when the next MMO comes along that I half way enjoy, I'll close my one and only account and not look back. I will give EA/Mythic the same loyalty they have given us.
     
  30. I don't know if you've noticed but production shard population is dropping like a rock. There is your elephant. The low Siege population is a ripple effect.

    The question now is "How do we get a higher percentage of bored production sharders to move to Siege and start over so we (EA) can keep getting paid"?

    I don't have all the answers but I know from experience that ignoring major shard stopping issues for years at a time doesn't help.
     
  31. Krystal

    Krystal Sage
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    Untill u play our shard u have no right posting on this thread "what u think" we need and dont need. We know why people wont play our shard and we know why when newbs hit 70 they quit. ROT is 10 yrs old it needs to be fixed! simple as that!
     
  32. Alvinho

    Alvinho Great Lakes Forever!
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    Fertbert did the map changes on his own time at home not on the "Clock" as a gift, he knew he was going to me leaveing the EA team to another team. Speedman did the holiday shard on his own time even abused teh airports wifi access to upload it to ea computer.

    All these fun things and changes alot have been done on teh developers free time, and all that happens from changes tweaks adn fun things added, are cryed about when something is not done fast enough for perticular folks even though it will take sifting through a mountain of old code, and code stacked on top to correct a mistake, usually something as simple as a space or a missing symbol, finding the small mistakes like that is just about as fun as finding a penny in a bale of hay.

    Next time you feel like getting ona soap box for fun things adn improvements research a bit on when something was done as everything you mentioned was done on the free time of teh developers who did each thing, as far as that goes it tells me that the developers love working on Ultima Online enough to do the work and codeing for free, shows how deep of a comitment developers have for Ultima :)
     
  33. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Let them contact me. I'll help test...anything to help speed up the process...la
     
  34. Let's review shall we.

    The point of this post was to point out the addition of fluff at the expense of needed changes.

    Berate me for doing so if you like. However, I don't want you to miss the fact that in berating me you just proved my point.

    You gave two examples where we got fluff instead of needed, substantive changes. If Fertbert or Speedman or anyone else is going to take time to do something on their own, I would certainly appreciate them working on long standing issues rather than fixing things that aren't broken or coding events that last a few weeks.
     
  35. Alvinho

    Alvinho Great Lakes Forever!
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    :lol:
    Actually you are mostly right, i have seen a bunch at the store and they been driveing a small toyota car to and from the grocery store, Sad part is that i will often see 2 different groups of teh same short sleeved black tie wearing group of folks who do not car pool, but take their own toyotas to teh grocery store, a simalarity on teh cars are tehy have all been gold that they have been seen in the area:lol:
     
  36. Alvinho

    Alvinho Great Lakes Forever!
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    I gave 2 examples of developers who cared enough to work on stuff on their spare time, AND to me that shows love for their job. They could have choosen to go out drinking spending time with their respective families or doing other things, They choose to work on the game.

    Looking at their different things as a half cup full type of view, you woudl see that in codeing each project, they had to write code, which means that yes it was for fun the christmas wonderland, or the practical map fix, either way there was code written meaning it can be looked at as being a test on what code changes coupd produce what changes, possiably overwriteing old code into newer code makeing fixes happen instead of fixing old code. Testing and more testing writeing more new code that could possiably replace old code, on their free time oposed to on teh clock shows dedication not overlooking the cry baby antics of We did not get XXXXX this publish I demand it be put in game now, when it was possiably pulled as there was a side effect that put britan at teh location of vesper, as a example. Another example of codeing that produces things that shouldnt have been produced *COUGHS* Holiday Bacon was a side result of the item number of the rose in the vase.

    Cry all you like about stuff not getting done when other things do get done, but when something major if fixed then it is love for the developement team.

    Most of you guys remind me of my bipolar support group one day praiseing the doctors for everything (on a good day) Cussing teh doctors for everything (on a bad day)
     
  37. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    It's pretty easy to post on an internet forum and gripe, it's also easy to argue back and forth with another faceless entity, again, hidden in the world of cyberspace.......really want to get somewhere???

    Pick up the phone and call corporate, have the audacity to send your gripe where it counts. The devs are controlled......do this, do that, accomplish this, accomplish that. Get a hold of the kneck-tie calling the shots, make your threats there....."i'll quit, this isn't fair.....etc, etc, etc......"

    Posting here, griping and moaning gets nowhere......Rate of time, I assume that's what ROT stands for, though your guys never stop to spell words out. Don't assume everyone knows what your babbling about.....if something takes too long, then hang it up. Obviously patience and time is something your never taught.

    Balance, there is no balance in life, nor in fighting....if you need that, play a sony game, with cheats. Speaking of which......that's the one and only point I'll back ya up on.....cheating is for kids, punks and losers. That and selling gold.

    But seriously, call HQ and hammer it out with them. Making allegations at devs is grammer school behavior. The devs do the best they can with what they have......handle it....or quit.

    I did try seige, it did nothing for me, almost as mundane as World of Whatever.

    later.
     
  38. So it is ok to fill the game with fluff and ignore important things because they love the game?
     
  39. "grammer school"

    Now that is funny.

    :)
     
  40. Alvinho

    Alvinho Great Lakes Forever!
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    Most fluff as you call it has been done on developers free time, What you do not see in the scenes, is the fix that allowed vine cords to be hidden and not fixed with teh inital fix of them, but seem to be taken care of now. You also did not see the reason mouse holes were not added this time as it woudl have caused a new break in bug, but things like that are not announced because it woudl have folks trying old things that caused new items that were not intended in game to be produced. you can look at all teh new items and cry all you like, but as i said before writeing new code, BTW the majority of this new "Fluff" already existed, and a few lines of code added to make it useable by players, irreguardless, it is easier to write new code, than sift through old code find a mistake fixe it test it and hope that the fix does not cause magencia to disappear off the map. There will always be things done behind the scenes that you will not hear about only new stuff or important stuff is announced, get over it, If you do not liek it you cna protest by closeing your account(s) and find a game that tells you 100% what is being done.
     
  41. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Congratulations on proving you don't know what you're talking about.

    Especially the part where you DON'T want new product....

    Goodbye, and good luck in your fantasy world. Hello, ignore list....
     
  42. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    RoT is one of many reasons people don't play Siege.
    Fixing one issue won't make all the others go away.
    The sad fact is that most of the other "issues" are actually the things that make Siege the "Veteran Shard"

    Teehee!
    I think I have all the same rights as you do, here :)

    Seriously, people hit 70-ish and quite... That's where RoT is likely to be your villain, sitting there with its big black moustache, and top hat.

    Now, people don't start playing Siege, or quit before they hit 70 skills... While RoT might be in the shadows, rubbing its chin evilly, you can't ignore the (metaphorical) armed mob.
    I present to you, Siege Perilous.
    Let's see...
    Non-con PvP.
    No insurance.
    No X-shard.
    Single character.
    And many, many more reasons people might not want to try Siege.
     
  43. which is proof of where your actually "coming from" ... if YOU don't benefit, if YOU don't approve ... it is "fluff" ...
    "If Fertbert or Speedman or anyone else is going to take time to do something on their own" ...

    o
    m
    g

    A "twit" troll spotting!
    Score! [​IMG]
     
  44. Castor

    Castor Guest

    i think the PBD debacle is worthy of mentioning
     
  45. Mulch

    Mulch Guest

    Is it twit or ****?
     
  46. I think you are a little mixed up about the the reasons people like Siege. See, the things you listed as turn-offs are actually turn-ons.

    Turn offs are things like broken ROT, overpowered pets and hide/stealth. The two latter problems were actually introduced by the dev team. ROT has simply been ignored.

    One thing that is important to remember is that in a discussion about Siege vs. production shards, the Siege player is pretty much always better informed because he or she has tried both.

    :)
     
  47. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Those things may be turn-ons to the Siege player, who's chosen to play Siege, possibly on those merits.
    But, are they really turn-ons for those that don't play Siege? Really?
    You are working under the huge assumption that people are going to love Siege for the same reasons you do.

    As for better informed, I won't deny. Although, you don't necessarily need first-hand experience, to understand something.
    If all I've learned about Siege comes from forum posters such as yourself, and what I have learned is wrong, that would imply that the example I learn from is wrong... Oh dear...
    However, the Siege player's views would come with significant bias. Since they've made the decision, for whatever reason, to abandon the majority ruleset in favour of a niche ruleset, they obviously aren't objective.
     
  48. Joyous2K

    Joyous2K Guest

    KR incomplete and unsupported
     
  49. Joyous2K

    Joyous2K Guest

    That is a score because you used the word "twit" and provided a definition. I am not very familiar with it, but I am going to try to use it next week.

    They do need to fix bugs though....

    Spawn in inaccessible places is one that bothers me.
     
  50. nuttyputty

    nuttyputty Guest

    The one thing really annoying in Siege is the fact you can only have 1 character per account.

    Doing this is almost pushing this shard into a 'PVP only shard'.

    For people that do not have access to soul stones are really forced into one character type.

    Sure its a good PVP shard, but what if I want to tame me some goats? What about craft some hats? This has to push new people away. Why would somebody pay 12.99 a month for one character?

    I just believe if you give more variety to the player, they will be more interested in playing.
     
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