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What did You Get ??? (How many have you Turn in and Shard)

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Taka, Aug 13, 2012.

  1. Taka

    Taka Journeyman
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    I turn in 517 Cure on Hokuto and get Tier 3 Item. Would like to know how many you have turn in and maybe I would have a better luck in another shard??? Please share the information hehe !!!!

    Lession LEARN, DUN PLAY IT if you know you can't Beat them .(unless you join them in breaking the RULE )
     
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  2. Quickblade

    Quickblade Lore Keeper
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    I turned about 415 cures on Catskills and got 3 items. I turned 1 CURE on others characters and they got 2 items (VERY LAME)
    What is more lame is on Pacific a guy turned about same amount of cures and did get the 4 items . why my shard should have a desavantage? (catskills is dead compared to pacific i dont get it)
     
  3. King_Fisher

    King_Fisher Journeyman
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    I turned in Zero and got complete happiness lol
     
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  4. christy1221

    christy1221 Slightly Crazed
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    On chessy. Turned in 115 got tier 3. turned in only 1 on a few characters and got tier 2.
     
  5. Odin of Europa

    Odin of Europa Lore Master
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    I handed in 911 cures on Europa and got tier 3.
     
  6. Eaerendil

    Eaerendil Younger than Kelmo, but also in the way...
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    Handed in ZERO, everything fine here...
     
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  7. Myphsar

    Myphsar Lore Keeper
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    What exactly does that mean?
    Oh, im sorry, all i done was my best is that breaking the rules?
     
  8. Myphsar

    Myphsar Lore Keeper
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    I handed in 1423 on europa.
    The day before it ended Odin of europa told me he was running out of regs so i gave him some more.
    I told some other people that were doing this how many cures i was doing and they seemed shocked.
    All i did was my best and i got top prize, is that a bad thing now?
    How many congratulations are on here (not for me but in general) at the moment? Zero!
    All that is on here at the moment is loads of people moaning that they didnt win, it makes me sick that people are like this.
    'I didnt win, IM QUITTING!' 'I didnt win because he is cheating' 'I didnt win because i have a family/job'
    Ive been told in the last month that i cheat, i have no life, and other crap all for doing my best in this competiton :(
    Im glad this ended on the 12 august because one of my accounts ends on the 13th and the other one ends on the 15th and im going to take a long break from all of this.
    One last thought... Did i really win? or did i just make everyone else on my shard lose?
     
  9. Lord X

    Lord X Sage
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    Congrats, overdue for sure! But dont take it too hard. Now this is just me talking, but to me you were like the only one in the biggest threads saying you got the high reward. A post by Olcher showed a pic of the arms... which as it turns out didn't even drop to him. So as far as general goes, we just haven't seen the winners other then you. So what most of what we get left with is how much work alot of us done (though not as much as you) and thus far only one winner thats even came forward. This whole quest is just kinda disapointing because we didnt get the rewards and its hard to tell if there really was any/many that did. I dunno, I am positive I didn't type this very well but eh it is what it is. Congratulations nonetheless on a well deserved prize.
     
    #9 Lord X, Aug 14, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2012
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  10. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    To much of a grind for me. I was more like a chore than "unwinding with a video game".
     
    #10 DJAd, Aug 14, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2012
  11. Eaerendil

    Eaerendil Younger than Kelmo, but also in the way...
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    Myphsar, I am happy for you that you got the reward. And the amount of work you have done is impressive. But people didn´t criticize that you or others did hard work for reaching this goal. They criticized the way the rewards were distributed and they criticized that they were called "lazy", "not well prepared" and alike.

    The discussion had two dimensions: (1) The quality of the quest (and 90 % agree that is was poorly designed) and (2) the quality of the discussion. And while there is an overwhelming majority criticizing the quest, there are "baddies" on both sides when it comes to the quality of the discussion. And sorry, I don´t wanna be called "lazy", "not prepared" or something like this by someone that has TONS of time for doing quests like this. And believe me, that is not meant as an offense.

    So, what is the bottom line? The quest produced much criticism and most of it was correct. The discussion led in many wrong directions - but on both sides. I don´t like whining that much - that´s why I didn´t participate. But I don´t like people that call others "lazy" and so on.

    You shouldn´t think of quitting just because you had some arguments with others. That´s definitely not a good reason.
     
  12. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Due to the way the reward system was designed, YOU are at fault for making everyone else get less or forced them directly to do more work to get the rewards. Your win came at the cost of everyone else. Not just was it a win, it was so out of proportion to what the other shards had, that there are now people on Europa that got just a sash or tier 2, while on other shards they got tier 3 or 4 if they had handed in the same amount of cures there.

    If EVERYONE had handed in 10 cures, EVERYONE would have received Tier 4 stuff.

    But because you handed in over 1000 cures, everyone else was screwed. The second best guy that we know of, with 911 cures, didn't get anything. While people with half that amount on other shards got Tier 4.

    Yes you were increadibly selfish, but that shouldn't have been a problem if the system was designed properly. But instead, the system was designed TERRIBLY, and the result is that people feel they are rewarded unfairly (rightly so, in my opinion) and that the community is driven apart due to hatred for the extreme winners like you, because they are the reason that everyone else got less.
     
  13. Lord X

    Lord X Sage
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    I went to click the Un-like button but apparently It doesnt exist. I hope you are the only one that feels this way.:thumbdown:
     
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  14. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Oh and for the sake of the topic, I handed in approx 120 and got tier 2, and 1 and got nothing, on europa.

    Compare to
     
  15. Odin of Europa

    Odin of Europa Lore Master
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    Thats uncalled for Shakkara. Myph did nothing wrong, he just played the game, did the quest as intended, he wasn't being selfish.

    The people to blame for this bad reward system are the devs, noone else.
     
  16. Reth

    Reth Journeyman

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    :rolleyes:
     
  17. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Re-read the last sentence, that's exactly what it says, eh? The system should have been designed to take people like Myph into account, but it didn't.

    The only thing Myph could be blamed for is ignorance in how the reward system works and what the consequences of these actions would be. But once again, the developers FAILED to communicate clearly how exactly the reward system worked, so people that don't have a game/system design background like me would probably not suspect how it was going to turn out and what the consequences for everyone else would be if one person would hand in an extreme amount of cures to win.

    I suspect that rewards were normalized to percentages of the winning total.

    Let's make up some percentages.

    >0.90 = Tier 4
    >0.50 = Tier 3
    >0.05 = Tier 2
    >=0.005 = Tier 1
    else no reward.

    So, if the winning score was 500 cures, the requirements for this shard would be:
    450 = Tier 4
    250 = Tier 3
    25 = Tier 2
    3 = Tier 1

    If the winning score however is 1423, the requirements shift as follows:
    1281 = Tier 4
    712 = Tier 3
    71 = Tier 2
    8 = Tier 1

    If everyone hands in 10, the requirements would be:
    9 = Tier 4
    5 = Tier 3
    1 = Tier 2
    1 = Tier 1

    See how vulnerable and unfair this system is?

    Fun fact: I designed a competitive reward system similar to this for the economy system of an MMORPG. While this system seems to be based on only one variable (the top score), mine used over a dozen variables to prevent exactly this from happening. There will always be extremes (either from very good/lucky players, or maybe from BUGS which could also be responsible for submitting extreme values), and any game designer HAS to take them into account when building something like this. The reward system used for this event is a textbook case of flawed design and I find it UTTERLY SHOCKING that it made it into the game like this.
     
    #17 Shakkara, Aug 14, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2012
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  18. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    Turned in somewhere less than a hundred (didn't really count) and got tier 3 on LS. And I participated because while I hated the structure of the event, I loved the cure-making game itself (used to play mastermind with friends at lunch in highschool).
     
  19. MedeaDF

    MedeaDF Seasoned Veteran
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    I made 1 Cure but didn't turn it in - but kept it as a souvenir. :D

    Thats it. I was really happy to have a lot of free time to do other, more important, things ;)
     
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  20. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The dividing factor, as I understood, determining whether or not a player would get up to tier 4 rewards was not how crowded was the shard but rather in comparison to whatever player(s) on that shard turned in the most cures. Everyone else's turn ins were compared, I seem to understand, to the top turning in figures.

    Now, even though a shard was less populated, nothing prevents that on that shard some powergamer with a lot of time available to play UO could turn in a high number of cures on that shard thus downgrading the efforts of all other players turning in cures for that shard.

    Therefore, I kinda seem to understand, whether a shard was highly or low populated meant hardly anything or perhaps, it even might have turned out being a disadvantage to be on a low populated shard because I heard that some players made the cures on their populated shard but then transferred to a low populated shard to turn them in, in the hope of having higher chances to a tier 4 rewards this way.

    So, is my guess, if top turning in players from Pacific moved elsewhere to turn their cures in, those who were left on that higher populated shard might have experienced the surprise to get to tier 4 reward with the moreless same number of cures which did not get it to tier 4 reward on another less populated shard simply because on that other shard the top turning in players were able to turn in a much higher number of cures.

    Of course this is all guessing on my side, merely trying to make some logic on how it may have been possible that a higher populated shard ended up delivering tier 4 rewards with same or even less cures turned in as compared to a much less populated shard.......

    I just think that there could have been better ways and dynamics to award these rewards but I now see an extra problem in UO, we may have again few players who obtained items (the arms) which can be meaningfull and might make a difference in determining the outcome in PvP which, as I see it, is not right if we want balanced out fights in UO for the sake of more challenging and fun PvP.

    I mean, why did we get replica items and imbuing to balance out players in PvP and bring them to an equal footing if then we again get items which might be meaningfull in PvP be given only to a very limited number of players ? It sounds to me like a contradiction.....

    I think that like it has been decided with the +5 stats scroll recently, also for these rewards other ways to obtain them should be thought up, making it possible for all players to get them.

    That's how I see it.
     
  21. Odin of Europa

    Odin of Europa Lore Master
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    I agree with you that the quest was badly implemented, and they should have taken into consideration people putting alot of time and effort into it like Myph, and they should have communicated more with us. The devs messed up big time, no argument from me there. However, while most of the last sentence in your first post is on about the terrible design of the quest, the first part of it which I have bolded along with a few other parts in your post, appear to be blaming Myph. For someone to come here and blame a player and call them selfish because they made alot more cures, is unfair.

    I'm the guy on Europa that handed in 911 cures and I didn't get the tier 4 reward and I am gutted about it, but I went into this quest knowing that I may not get them, or even the tier 3 items, but I tried my best anyway. Do I blame Myph because he made 1400+ cures? No. I knew about a week before the event ended that he'd made over 1000. The devs made the mistake, its their fault.
     
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  22. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper
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    Weird that this scenario closely matches the political arguments of the day. Those who worked so hard to succeed are accused of being somehow greedy and evil. Perhaps we should band together and take the rewards, cut them up and distribute to all those who had excuses as to why they could not expend the effort. After all, it's just not fair. The mistake is that the "game" has not evolved to the now popular belief that we are all winners just for existing. Make no mistake, if you do play to win or excel, then don't tell anyone. Pretend you are a loser like everyone else and you will be happier.
     
  23. tamereragon

    tamereragon Visitor

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    If you had put all the work in and got a tier 3 you too would unhappy.
     
  24. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Myph's choices DID directly impact everyone else (which could've been expected as devs said rewards would be scaled based on the top contributer), so in a way he is to blame for everyone else's woes.

    But the devs set it up this way, and even directly encouraged people to do what Myph did. I had just hoped for a perfect world where players would say "**** YOU, DEVS" and all handed in 1 cure, breaking the system and making everyone win, instead of having one person win and everyone else lose. But yeah, people are greedy bastards so even if it could be communicated and coordinated, there would always be a few people messing it up for the rest.

    I think the situation is like the devs encouraging people to drive as fast as they can on a highway to reach some finish, but there being people's babies on the road. The person that drives fastest and leads the pack hits all the babies, gets a lot of hate, but is actually to blame for hitting babies because he didn't watch out and drove too fast. But it is the devs that set up the encouragement to drive too fast, AND put people's babies on the road. If people had said "No, I'm not going to drive faster than the rest as there might be accidents", little or no babies would've been hit. There wouldn't have been a race either. But I don't think many people expected the analog of "babies on the road" for this event.
     
  25. Borric

    Borric Seasoned Veteran
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    :confused:
    Walk away from the keyboard and get some fresh air...
     
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  26. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The mistakes where more than one, IMHO. Not only the dynamics of how these rewards were administered to players by putting casual players in competition with powergamers, but also the consequence that we now have, in an item based game where modifiers definately affect the end outcome in PvP fights, few people having been able to get an item (the sleeves) which might be a determining factor in fights and many players who will be cut out of it, unless like it was decided with the +5 stats scroll, other ways to get these rewards will be made available to all those players who could not get them because of the way the Event was organized and the rewards given.

    A game that has Player versus Player, I think, in order to have challenging and fun fights which ensure enjoyment from all parties involved, needs to have balanced fights. That means that, in an item based game, that to have balanced fights players need to have reasonable same access to the best gear and weaponry (this means to me no exclusive item that might affect PvP outcome to only a few players !!). And I thought that with the replica items and with imbuing this was the direction. Now, this Event appers to me to to contradict with that when it is organized in a way to have only a few players obtain items which might make a difference in PvP.

    A balanced fight I think it as vital for the well being of the game because unbalanced fights where always the same players most win and always the same players most loose I think it brings to losing players leaving the game in frustration fed up of loosing one too many, and winning players getting bored of winning so often and so easily and also perhaps leave the game as well. In the end, with an unbalanced PvP, is my fear, the game ends up loosing resources both from losing PvP fights players because frustrated and from winning PvP players because bored. That is why I think that it is important for the game to make exceptional efforts to ensure that fights are balanced out and players all on an equal footing.
     
    #26 popps, Aug 14, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2012
  27. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Not all players have the same time to spend in the game, unfortunately. Yet, whether one can play a little time or lots, the support and resources given to the game by means of subscriptions are pretty much the same. This is why a product intended for entertainment should never penalize those players who, not for choice, but because of life, cannot put into the game as much time as this Event was asking.

    I do not see much sense in organizing a competition between players who do not start with the same resources (time). I mean, how much sense would it make to organize a race between people on foot and people driving a car ??

    Not all players can spend the same time in the game, unfortunately, so organizing Events that see them competing against each other when some players simply cannot stand up to compete not because they do not want, but because they lack the time which is a major factor affecting the outcome, I can't help but think it as very wrong for the game.

    Wrong 2 times, I must add, when the items exclusively given to only a few players might then have an effect in determining the outcome of PvP fights since this may leads to unbalanced fights which are, IMHO, bad for the game overall.
     
  28. Risso

    Risso Babbling Loonie
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    So Myph how much for the Tier 4 reward :)
     
  29. Lord Gandalf

    Lord Gandalf Babbling Loonie
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    True Story:

    I handed 200cure more or less on Europa Shard, all the cures were marked with my name Phoenix and actually handed by Phoenix.

    Then i decided to handed 3 other cures also marked by Phoenix on 3 different characters of same and different account.

    As a result, all the characters got rewarded tear one, and phoenix tear 2.

    Conclusion: This wasnt an individual event it was a group event thing coz the names marked on the cures had nothing to do with the actual character who is granting the cures to the hearer, so it wasnt an account or character binded quest.

    I must add, that ive also seen some WoY doing this quest as a team work, i blame whoever came out with this event which was so badly organized and so unclear. I dont even see why did they put our names on the cures? Was it to make even harder to understand the mechanics of this quest?

    At the end, i should congratulate the WoY team who achieved to get more informations which were not official on uoherald or stratics.
     
  30. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
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    Your posts do nothing but turn Myphsar into a scapegoat. The devs willingly and deliberately designed the quest and they are responsible for the outcome. This is what they wanted.
     
  31. Joey Porter

    Joey Porter Guest

    Sad this is how it has turned out.

    I did not participate but really enjoyed the story part of the Arc, thought that was pretty cool.
     
  32. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    ditto
     
  33. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I made 3 cures on 3 different characters and stuck them in a box.

    I had friends who spent weeks doing cures... working and working and attempting to ask everyone else turning in just how many they were doing... trying to work as a community so everyone turned in roughly the same amount...

    So NONE of them got Tier 4....

    Why because 1 person decided that they needed to be a non-conformist and basically stab everyone else in the back and turn in 3x as many as anyone else... so that one person got the sleeves and everyone else got Tier 3.

    Makes you wonder why people hate this game and can't stand to participate in events at all.

    Me I saw that coming a mile away... so I said I'm not wasting my time and energy doing something where one person can pretty much screw everyone.

    Should the others on the shard that worked together making sure they all had the "right amount" in hopes that they were all going to benefit be pleased that one bad apple jacked them all???

    I don't think so.

    I think this entire thing was a bad idea right from the start. I think the DEV's should have known that doing this the way they did will only further destroy peoples love of the game and the events... wasn't rocket science.

    At any rate if ever another event like this comes out I think I'll do exactly the same thing... Nothing. I'll save myself the stress and headache.

    Had the event come with a set goal or limit per item I may having given a hoot about it... but knowing it was NOT going to end well since well I know human nature... I opted to just not care. Not saying I didn't want any of the items just knew it wasn't worth losing sleep over... since what I really wanted "the sleeves" was obviously going to be unobtainable.
     
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  34. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Being one of those directly affected, I hope there is a special place in Hell for this person. :mad:
     
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  35. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I'm sure there is. Right beside you...

    j/k you know I loves you Marty.
     
  36. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    That spot was reserved for you loooooooooooong ago. :D
     
  37. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    The blame for this event, its outcome, and the feelings of the paying customers lies squarely at the feet of the devs.

    Congrats to Myphsar and the other people who received rewards (I am very glad that, at least in Myphsars case, a scriptor did not screw him out of his tier 4 reward)
     
  38. Blood Ghoul

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    I handed in around 300 (the craziest part to me is how everyone seems to know exactly how many they turned in) on Origins and only reached tier 3... Actually the wackiest part is how someone beat me since I never ever saw a soul at the cure tables until the last day. I almost thought I could have won with 1 cure.

    Oh well
     
  39. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    "Dear Players,

    We realize now how poorly designed the Gargoyle Cure Quest was, and sincerely apologize. It is sometimes a challenge to provide events which are challenging to both "power-gamers" as well as our more casual customers. We will endeavor in the future to provide gameplay to suit all playstyles while still providing challenges and attainable rewards for all of our friends (that is, you, our playerbase :)). We appreciate all of your feedback and will use it to improve Ultima Online.

    Sincerely,
    Your Ultima Online Development Team"

    WOW, I just had the wierdest dream!!!!
     
  40. Apetul

    Apetul Rares Fest Host | LS April 2011
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    I made 2 cures, but handed only one. Got deed and sash on LS.
    The amulet, the staff that cannot be imbued are horrible. Even the sleeves arent useful, its way better to have a 50% (or more) hit spell on a weap with -15 mage imbued than a 40% fireball that chars without shield can only use.
    Im happy I didnt wasted my time, but Im not happy on how the 3-4 devs left are designing this game.
     
  41. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Something which I have been thinking over for quite a while is whether the way this Event turned out to be was intended or a surprise to the Developers as well.

    If it was intended, then I am shocked at how casual players were put to compete against powergamers when clearly, with less time at hand, they did not stand a chance to compete. Not to forget that the game does also have scripting....... How is it possible that the ill effect which would have displeased many customers was not foreseen ? Not to mention the other wrong consequence that we now have in the game a very limited number of players who has received limited access to the bracers which might affect the outcome of PvP fights. This really puzzles me.

    If, instead, it was not intended, and there was no intention to put casual players with much more limited time to play the game to compete against players with way more time than then, and neither there was the intention to release to a very limited number of players items which could affect the outcome in PvP fights, then I wonder how this Event came to life as we have had it.

    I mean, whichever way I look at it, I am totally puzzled at why we got this Event the way we have seen.


    I think the same and also stayed away from the Event since, unfortunately, my time in the game is limited and I felt I did not have a chance to compete against powergamers. If the rewards would have instead been given in exchange of SET NUMBERS of cures turned in, and these set numbers were known from start, then I WOULD have given it a shot and made an effort to meet a set goal, a precise number of cures that would have earned me the rewards for each tier.

    So, designing the Event the way it was done it deterred many players who felt their time in the game too limited to compete, from even trying to participate. These players, perhaps, would have participated to the Event and made it a success if the rewards had instead been awarded towards turning in finite, SET numbers of cures turned in.

    I hope this is the VERY LAST TIME we see Events where casual players are made to compete versus powergamers. I do not think it as good for the game as it may turn players off from wanting to keep playing the game.
     
    #41 popps, Aug 14, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2012
  42. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Crap...agreeing with Popps again.

    Damn you Devs, you made a screwed up quest, and have me agreeing with Popps left and right!!!

    :)
     
  43. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper
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    What surprises me is that once finding a popular method (the Tokuno event for example), the devs keep trying something new. I don't remember anyone complaining during the Tokuno event. It is strange that nothing was learned and reapplied to later events.
     
  44. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    As a mod, I remember that a little differently... complaints of kill stealing... it's unfair to those who can't play 24-7... etc... While I agree that I think it was one of the better events, I do remember complaints.

    I also liked the Sacarrii halloween event a lot as well as the Candle of Love event series.
     
  45. NBG

    NBG Lore Master
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    To be honest, I really think UO is probably a test bed for Mythic\EA when it comes testing new ideas because they figured if they pulled this type of crap on their other online games, they risk losing what they consider more important customers and we are the test rats that can take abuse in their eye. Since all they have to do is ignore us and still get their fees at the end of the day.
     
  46. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    I turned in something like 9 in the 1st couple of days and never went back to do anymore. Got a sash and a scroll on pacific.
     
  47. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Agreeing with popps...now I'm joining you in these weird dreams!
     
  48. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    You don't really believe what you're writing, do you? Myphsar was no different than a Michael Phelps or Usain Bolt, determined to be the fastest. There's nothing wrong with wanting to get the top prize, and the difference here is that Myphsar's actions was not supposed to deny top rewards to other top contributors.

    Unfortunately the scaling must have been ridiculous. What made this unfair is like awarding only bronze to the next fastest women's relay team, because they were too far behind the Americans' time.
     
  49. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Really now? Blaming someone for wanting the best reward and earning it because you didn't get the best? A new low...
     
    Lord X likes this.
  50. Lord X

    Lord X Sage
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    I don't believe it ever said anything about it scaled on the top contributer. It does however state: While it was possible to get more than one reward (and even all four rewards) for the top contributors, it was also possible to not receive any reward at all if the respective contributions were not on par with the distribution of other contributors.

    Plural.