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What do you think about durability and imbuing ?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Der Rock, Aug 25, 2009.

  1. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    we all know that different templates uses durability faster then others,
    the lowest dura consum are tamer/mages/bards/an so on..
    the most dura eater are close combat templates,indeed.

    so it will be much more expensive to keep your fighter stuffed with imbuing then others.

    i would propose that fighter armor/weapons should have double max.durability then mage armor/weapons

    or otherwise,the mages should lose durability faster
     
  2. Personally, I feel its fine the way it is ...short of weapons. Fighters, such as a hand to hand type, will use an imbued weapon up quicker than a one-legged pirate's leg-stick! So that might need to be looked at a bit. Maybe we could get a lil bump-down to durability usage for those?
    My sampire goes thru wep dur very quickly. And while I know its good to revert back to the old days a bit to keep it fair and 'involving' - so to speak, it might be good to lower the dur usage for some weapons. i dunno. just my 2 cents.
     
  3. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    The purpose of the durability is to keep the craftsmen's skill in need. Not get what you need and not need to redo anything for a few years. This has been a problem for a while. It will give the need to look for people who can supply the goods again like the good ole days.
     
  4. Brynthe

    Brynthe Guest

    Cetric, its not a matter of only having to replace something every few years. My sampire can go through a weapon in a matter of hours!! Bushido parrying is just terrible on weapon damaging.

    I'm 100% for the need to give crafters something to do on a regular basis, but having to have a new weapon imbued everytime I want to use my Sampire is way over the line of being reasonable. Depending on the costs of imbuing, it could mean that just to spend 2-3 hours in the Painted Caves working my reputation back up could cost me hundreds of thousands of gold, possibly millions.

    I like the lack of repair for these, but there needs to be a better balance here, or make weapons MUCH easier to imbue, so that they cost less to replace.
     
  5. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    I'll be sticking to regular crafted non-imbued weapons for pvm. My macer tears through his stuff at an alarming rate.
     
  6. Saris

    Saris Guest

    Well, my warrior will be using runics still, whole suit - artis, imbuing is for everyone else.

    LOL I am not sure if thats how they intended to make runics still viable, but it works.

    MY tamer mage bard on the other hand. imbuing looks juicy.

    My time on the open beta was testing map bugs and gargs, I wanted to test imbuing but, could not figure out how to get recipes :p

    so how rare will be getting the valorite mallet and chisel anyway, 2000 relic frags got 120 imbuing scroll every time but the mallet only once.
     
  7. Shadefox

    Shadefox Certifiable
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    As a tamer/archer, Ill probably go for imbuing all parts save the bow, that should last me quite some time, if it works like normal durability. I think I got hit by melisande when I lagged a while back.

    ok I get hit every now and then, but it seems like th eonly thing I ever felt a need to repair is my bows
     
  8. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    I hope that close combat characters get considered but i would like to point out that sampires are a bad example of class to break weapons fast. They are meant to break weapons quicker then others due to the fact they use the weapon to block attacks. any bush parry character will destroy weapons quicker then all other classes. The weapon a bush parry character uses gets doubble durability loss 1 for being aweapon and 1 for being used as a shield.
     
  9. Joshua Ravenloft

    Joshua Ravenloft Journeyman
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    Personally I think you should be able to use a PBD to give that single imbued 'leet' item unlimited durability or self repair 10 to safe-guard it. After all, that was the original idea of the Personal Bless Deed.

    And if you happen to have 8 Item Bless Deeds [like me] stashed, then it's happy dayz! You'll never need another set of jewels/armour again - yay!



    [Ok ok, so I havn't got 8 IBDs stashed away. It was a nice dream for a little while though] :D
     
  10. If you're only spending 2-3 hours fighting, a weapon will last you for several months. There's no way possible to go through all 255 durability points in a single setting. That would be 255 taken down to ~20 durability, repair to 254, take down to ~20, rinse, repeat until you're at the point there's not enough durability left to be able to use the wep. It's just not possible.
     
  11. I agree with Connor... my Sampire weapons last a good week without repairing. Even if you have to repair every day, that weapon will last you 250 days or so. You should have made enough gold during that time to pay for a newly imbued weapon. I think it's a fair balance to the power imbuing gives you.
     
  12. Brynthe

    Brynthe Guest

    You're right about completely destroying the weapon.. in my mind I was thinking they couldn't be repaired either.. my apologies.. my brain is mush today, apparently.. I need a vacation.
     
  13. Bardie

    Bardie Lore Keeper
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    this post = :sad2::sad2:

    where's my silver platteR?
     
  14. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I don't have any issue with the "breakable items" aspect of imbuing, or items breaking generally. I'll still imbue items for all my characters including the warriors - there'll be plenty of time for me to find the required ingredients to craft a replacement or buy one.

    Wenchy
     
  15. Maggie

    Maggie Guest

    I think all imbued items should have like a rate of decay based off time equipt not how often it hits/get hits. that would balance out the dexxers with people who dont get hit has often (tamers, mages, thiefs, bards, crafters). My crafter is going to get some + 15 magery with lrc jewels that way she can fit more skills. Just wearing something wears it out.

    That works in real life too. I m not a fighter but my socks get holes sometimes. Who has never had a button pop off a shirt/jacket/pants?
     
  16. hen

    hen Certifiable
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  17. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    this discuss is not about "breakable items",it is about the unbalance between fighter and all other.
    in some doom sessions i lose 100+ dura on 1 day.and i am sure the new ter mur monster will be harder then doom.
    most people here don´t understand this, maybe they never used a fighter excessive or they are the part of 50% contrary stratics poster.

    NO, 255 dura does NOT mean u can use this item 255 days,at the beginning those items will last 1-2 days, but then there will come the breakepoint, where you have to repair this item several times a day, till the point you have to repair every hour :(

    this means a real fighter HAVE to replace his armor far more often then other templates,
    THIS is the disadvantage.
    result will be that you only see tamers and such "dura-safe" templates at highend spawns.
    fighter items NEED more durability because of this !

    suggestion would be a special +100-255 dura PoF for not-mage armor parts and not spellchanneling items, also not mediable armor ;)
     
  18. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Fighters get bigger advantage from Imbuing then mages, since spellbooks can not be imbued. So it's ok that fighters lose dura more too right?
     
  19. Splup

    Splup Guest

    All armors in this game should be made meddable... It's just ridiculous that samurai armor and leather armor get 6th mod for free?

    RIDICULOUS! I would love to make cool looking armor but heck, what's the point when I get the 6th mod on those for free when making em?

    Either let leather have only 4 mods and make mage armor take a mod in samurai armor, or remove the meditation penalty from ALL armors.
     
  20. Fink

    Fink Guest

    You can't really delineate most items as "mage" or "fighter" class, simply because we have so much choice as to what templates we build. Mage Armor is a property much sought after by non-mages, for example. To halve their durability would be to severely limit their viability. Also, Mage Weapon sometimes crops up (via loot or runics) on some decent melee/ranged weapons, so it would be penalising fighters once again.

    Other than those two properties you can't really define an item as belonging to one class or another.
     
  21. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    i know, they have to find a solution because of that.

    maybe they shoulld make a skill/stat based durability bonus, like
    -waepon skill min.gm
    -tactics skill min.gm
    -dex 100+
    if all 3 are 100+, gm or higher you get a dura bonus
     
  22. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I know what you posted, my bad for not being a bit clearer. I just don't feel that my warriors are at that great a disadvantage with imbued kit because they need to replace their kit more often. It's not as if every item out there will be rendered breakable with SA, so there's a choice between imbued/non imbued gear.

    But at the same time I wouldn't be in the least bit concerned if my non melee chars had to repair/replace kit as often as my warriors do. If it's necessary for balance then I have no concern about it. I just don't worry that my items might break.

    Wenchy
     
  23. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Being a simple soul at heart I look at this simplistically.
    Question: Will they break any quicker than my invul armour and vanquishing sword used to do?
    Answer: Nope.
    Question: will they be harder to replace than my invul armour and vanquishing sword used to be?
    Answer: Nope.
    Result: I'm happy with the idea of imbuing and look forward to the hunt and craft task that finding replacements will involve. Gives me a purpose, I enjoy hunting with a purpose in mind.
     
  24. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    Oh man, screw balance.....that is such weak sauce. All we see is crying for balance. If the prima donnas want balance, play a video game already.

    When a player, such as yourself, can burn up a specific weapon in a matter of hours, then you can afford to replace it.

    Don't shop Luna for one......I'm willing to bet there will be more crafters charging a hell of alot less. I will. I'm sick of these guys in Luna with pathetic prices, thinking that's the norm. These "kids" are cracked.

    Hey, I remember when crafters had a chance.....AoS (age of s***) ruined it.:coco:
     
  25. Saris

    Saris Guest

    Well this is not pre pub 16, I used to sell vanq kats for 500k, I have axes worth 40 mil, not the same thing.

    Back then, UO was not an item based game, unfortunately, it is now, and it not gonna stop being that way.

    Imbuing is fine, I'm just saying, an imbued 1337 wep and a silver wep of vang, are in diff worlds.

    I will not ever have the resources to make all the items for all my chars, from what I saw just in relic frags it can take hundreds for some uber pieces.

    I can farm hundreds of fragments, but it does not sound fun to me, sorry.

    mostly because its relay thouands, and in my mind thats unreasonable for a temp piece.

    I keep with my runics, except for jewels.

    Farming th crap, is going to break my crap, so I can replace it with the crap that I made from farming crap.

    sorry don't sound fun to me.:p

    now, thats if your my dexer. MY mage is gonna love this.

    oh ya and whoever said you repair once a day, hmm don't work to hard then, in doom alone, if I solo it, I leave to go repair once every 2 hours.
     
  26. Saris

    Saris Guest

    It depends, my mage back then was my archer tmap hunter. I used to get vanq weps and invuln armor from tmaps, Saris used to farm them off orc lords in compassion desert before tram.

    so we are gonna get uber items from orc lords and t-boxes
    sadly no.
     
  27. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    but for me,men thats a so funny conclusion,but true
    long ago a laught so hard :D

    and i thought i was a hardcore doomer :D
     
  28. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    Bro, you are normally correct whenever you say anything, but, I can absolutely do more than 255 points damage to a weapon in a day. I was doing that much damage every day to the mace weapons and axes when I was playing 20 hours a day in the desert during TOT3. I was having to repair those weapons 2 times a day. I'd do about 150-180 damage to the bows, and I wasn't even getting hit very often on those chars.

    I might have read that wrong, you might be saying you can't do it in a few hours. That is correct, but you can definitely trash a weapon in a day.

    For me, there's no point at all in imbuing mace or sword weapons. I might could make one last a year if I didn't use it, but for say Miasma it just wouldn't be worth it.
     
  29. ClayPigeon

    ClayPigeon Guest

    Ugh yur KILLIN me here... Did you do the math? Allow me...

    20 hours = 255 durability.
    Repair item - Assume 1 durability lost every time you repair = 255 Repairs before breaking.

    255 * 20 = 5100 hours...
    5100/24 = 212 days...

    Could you explain to me how thats not almost a YEAR of use even at your PHENOMENAL usage rates?

    Then at 212 days, you craft another one... I don't see the complaint, or a reason to balance weapons more than other items.
     
  30. Drawde2

    Drawde2 Guest

    Let's do it the simple way for the math: 200 durability=20 hours. Repair always removes one durability.

    First repair, durability 199=19.9 hours this time. Next repair is 198=19.8 hours. And so on. Each time it looses durability, it's that much quicker until it needs to be repaired again.

    Eventually, in actual practice, it would need to be repaired in less than an hour, and would become pretty worthless at that point.
     
  31. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    I play all styles and I expect my warriors equipment to wear out faster because that is the nature of the fighter. If tamers and mages get hit then thier equipment will wear out too, just not as fast.

    Socks do not wear out near as fast on someone sitting around all day compared to someone on thier feet 10 hrs a day. That's like saying my car tires wear out just as fast as a cross country truck drivers, and thier tires are a lot thicker than yours.
     
  32. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    And now it is a lot easier to make 40M then it was to make 500K back then for a wep. Don’t imbue that 40M wep and you can add all the PoF to it you want. With imbuing we will be able to prob make your 40M wep for a whole lot less and with reg play get the resources to replace it when the time comes. IMO runics will still have their place, but will not be in as high of demand because of imbuing. Imbuing is a good balance for the reg player, it will allow them to upgrade equipment for less gold and if carefull replace it when needed. One thing for sure, gone is the day that people will pay 2-3 Mill for something just because it is made with a Val Hammer with junk mods.
     
  33. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest


    ok,lets say YOUR math is correct,lets say YOUR math are available for a waepon or shield
    then what? how long will a tamer/mage ect. item last then? 500 days 700 days???
    dont YOU see the difference?
    no one complain about the replcacing,we discuss the imbalance between different playstyles!
    (by the way,your math is wrong ;) )
     
  34. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    If you want to make UO an "equal" game then lets see...
    Why mages need regs to cast? And dexers do not?
    Why Archers need arrows and bolts to attack, and gargs and dexers do not?
    Why in order for mage to attack without carry regs it requires the mages to spend 500% total intensity on items just for 100% LRC when dexers and just put on a weapon and go?
    How come sampires can solo many peerless bosses while my pure mages cannot?
    How come archers and dexers can hit with double slayer and do crazy damage up to 3 digits of damage per hit at 1.25 per second and my ebolt does 60 with slayer book and no double slayer?

    WHY MACERS CAN BREAK MY EQUIPMENTS ALMOST FOUR(4) TIMES QUICKER THAN ALL OTHER CLASSES?

    Oh yea after reading all the whinnings makes me wonder if DEVS DISABLED THE USE OF ALL NON-IMBUED INDESTRUCTIBLE WEAPONS SO ONLY THING YOU GET IS IMBUED ITEMS.

    Wow I mean, because they release imbuing all of a sudden ALL YOUR CURRENT WEAPONS ALL OF A SUDDEN BECAME NOT USEABLE/EQUIPPABLE ANYMORE?

    There will be more BS mages can whine about dexers in PVM (which is the main thing you are whining about) more than just some durability points if we really want to go into that ****.

    Imbuing is already serve to you on silver platter and some people apperently wants their carebear mode to be served on new enhanced white-gold platter.

    And imbuing hasnt even been released yet. Jeez freaking babies...

    You newbies that came after aos probably have zero freaking clue. UO used to be 20 times more challenging AND 20 times more exciting AND 20 times more subscribers than this crap we have right now. AND ITEMS BREAK ABOUT 50 TIMES FASTER THAN THE 30000 TOTAL DURABILITY POINTS YOU CAN GET OUT OF A 255/255 ITEM.
     
  35. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest


    most of your arguments are invalid and bla bla...:wall:

    and i was here bevore age of shadows :lick:
     
  36. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    So anything that you cant argue are invalid, typical.
    If you were there b4 aos, you should be the last person to whine about uo being too hard now.

    Post something constructive and try ti counter my arguments like i did to yours. More discussion less whinning and trolling.
     
  37. Anakena

    Anakena Seasoned Veteran
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    Do you really need a maxxed out imbued weapon for the Painted Caves? Keep also in mind that you can repair the weapon. It will eventually last several months before being useless. Just have another one ready if you can't wait for repair.
     
  38. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    i dont feel a whine, all i do is pointing my thumb on things i think they are imbalanced.
    why can´t you not simply agree that there is an imbalance between some templates and imbued items.
    nothing more i point to.
    it doesn´t matter if an item last 50 days or 200, it is all about your item will last 500 days and items from other playstyles maybe half as long or shorter.

    if you would read my posts unbiased, you could see that 99% of the time i NEVER say
    "I want,I need,I can´t...gimme gimme...."
    (i posted earlier,i have abundant gold and resources)

    i think about the AVERAGE player ;)


    (maybe because of my bad english it sounds elswise :D )
     
  39. well ...you know there will never be any true balance between mages and fighters; or is there? and isnt that the point really?!? mages have dif skills. they use dif equipment. their energies are derived from totally dif areas of expertise. and the more i think about it, the more i think it really IS balanced fairly well. i can deal with my sampire using up his imbued wep faster than any other template. i can deal with that price cuz i have been around since the beginning and i know what it was to lose a wep 2 mins after i got it. or a really nice piece of armor. or every damn thing i was carrying at the time short of my underwear!!! haha. so ...in that regard i think they have balanced it fairly well. only time will tell if thats true or not and crying about it b4 it has even happened is kinda silly really. i aint trying to beat down anyone's opinion. just makin a point that just struck me square in the forehead only moments ago after reading everyone's opinion about this.
    i just love uo. i dont care what they do, as long as the servers dont drop 2 or 3 times a day like they used to in the very beginning! heh.
    :D
     
  40. ClayPigeon

    ClayPigeon Guest

    DOH! I always failed those questions in my math class.... :cursing: You are correct, this is a progression in which repair time is reduced each time you repair the item.

    And it is true that the item will eventually reach a point where the durability is low enough that repairing it essentially does not become feasible. But even if this progression converges at 1/4 of the 212 days (which I think is a low estimate), thats still 50 days... And thats 50 days of straight time, not 50 days of 1 hour sessions. Heck even if its super low like 10 days thats still 240 hours of use - or 24 days at 10 hours every single day.

    Ultimately my point in this is simply to point out that people want to GREATLY exaggerate the problem in order to make their point. Its incorrect to say your imbued items will be broken in a month...

    I understand PRECISELY what you are saying. But I don't really see it as that big of a deal (given that they aren't going to break every 5 minutes), its simply the trade-off that must be managed if you are going to use imbued items. This will be true for ALL templates, with warriors experiencing higher rates - which they ALWAYS have experienced.

    My warrior suit is already pretty nice... and I'll probably use imbuing just the same because it will be hard to pass up rounding it out (for as easy as its going to be). But overall I probably will continue to use mostly POFable items.

    What I am taking exception to, once again, is the statement that these items will break as fast as some want to claim. Since the reality is you will EASILY acquire the ingredients to make replacements in the time before breakage...
     
  41. BardMal

    BardMal Guest

    This weapon durability thing; can't you "power of fort" it BEFORE you imbue it, then repair it before it reaches 0, loosing only one point of durability sometimes?

    Or is it that we can't imbue items once they have fort, or do we not want to repair our weapons in a timely manner?

    If players can "go through a weapon" in one day, I suspect that they are not repairing them often enough.
     
  42. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    I am not replying to you Cetric, I hope that is clear.

    When UO was originally published items did not wear out.

    But Black smiths and Tailors thought their Characters were not getting enough Player Loving and/or their coffers were not being filled up enough as they were originally.

    They wanted the NPC Vendors to be removed or have their inventory be vastly inferior to what they make (i.e. why buy a Viking Sword from a Player when you can buy one from an NPC Vendor).

    There was a long and bitter thread on CB.

    Some Key points.

    Crafter: I should NOT be required to compete against a never empty NPC Vendor.

    Player: Ok, are you going to guarantee that you or your proxy will be there 24x7x365.25x12 years selling me the items I want at a price I can afford.

    Crafter: No and that has nothing to do with anything period, end of disciussion.

    ===================

    Crafter: Items should decay and break, allowing for Tailors and Blacksmiths to repair them for money, so they can be a useful member of the UO Society.

    Player: Ok, are you going to guarantee that you or your proxy will be there 24x7x365.25x12 years repairing my items at a price I can afford.

    Crafter: No and that has nothing to do with anything period, end of disciussion.

    ===================

    Player: Items should decay and break

    Player: Based on what ... well story line?

    Player: Because in the real world things break and need to be repaired

    Player: But this is NOT the real world and there are items coded Indestructable.

    Player: Those are really destructable, because in the Real World we can NOT make things indestructable

    Player: This is NOT the real world, these items are Magical Items and why should one believe that Magic can NOT keep an item in a state of constantly perfect repair?

    Player: Because Magic does NOT exist in the real world, so things must decay and break, end of discussion.

    While I am amazed that the group of people that want things to be as hard as .... what ever, still exist but functionally their argument is the same, all these years later. A Play Style insist that it be the sole source for something that benefits everyone yet that same group refuses to take responsibility to the UO community to provide the services/items to the community when the community needs it and at a price the community can afford.

    :) Good thing I no longer have the passion to argue the point. It is just really sad that regardless of someone knowing it or not, they argue for a state sanctioned monopoly with no safeguards for the welfare of the society.

    But what is equally as sad is the total lack of reason, lore, story line, definitions what ever why things should be the way they are proposed.

    I could argue that Imbuing is a Magical Process performed at a Magical Artifact. Thus the successfully imbued item should BE STRONGER for the process, NOT WEAKENED.