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What I posted made every bit of sense...

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Førsaken, Aug 22, 2010.

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  1. Førsaken

    Førsaken Guest

    Yet you guys still bicker and say remove items? You really are clueless. Lock this, delete this, whatever floats your boat.

    Siege Perilous has become a shard of ignorance.

    Congratulations.
     
  2. Not all of us are saying remove items, clueless or not.
     
  3. Revvo

    Revvo Slightly Crazed
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    Welcome to 6 years ago, slow and steady gets there in the end as they say :)
     
  4. Førsaken

    Førsaken Guest

    Sad, but true.
     
  5. Førsaken

    Førsaken Guest

    It was more of a general statement seeing how minority seems to overrule majority on this server.
     
  6. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Guest

    Sometimes it actually gets draining trying to explain the over obvious
     
  7. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    And it doesn't help that the person (Kat) has disliked Kage/guild for many years. can't see past her blinded hate.
     
  8. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Guest

    Yes...that was my point...its just because Kage made a point about something that is true and happens to be something that the PvPers do want....so since it fits both of her criteria...One---It was Kage---Two---we want it....good enough reason to bash it then.....it gets so old with her (Kat)
     
  9. Demon Wind

    Demon Wind Sage
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    Faction items are not the problem. The problem exists in the price for those items in silver I think. Why in the world do these items cost 4-5 times that of a reg shard is beyond me. The competition on this shard for silver seems to be alot more then on a prod shard. Perhaps instead of bickering about the items we should complain about silver prices for those items? I am a woman and know little about pvp but I do think the items are beneficial to pvpers because of the new spells and things. You can't have one with out the other it would be devestating to the less prepared in my opinion. I'll shush now and let you all debate. But do it with some respect for each other we are all better then animals are we not?
     
  10. TigerDyr

    TigerDyr Guest

    Demon I can tell that you havn`t read the other thread on the matter. The whole issue is about the pricing being ridiculess high :). So you just give a thumbs up to Kage for him trying to make a differense in that department.

    Anyone who wish to take an initiative to get Siege more desireable for new or old players for that matter is one we all should back up. Wether it be lowering silver prices or something else!

    I personally would like to see the lowering of the prices for arties too, I would also like to have some of the lands removed again since we are so low populated, but I know thats never gonna happen hehe.

    Ah well gues this post didnt say much but I made it anyway muha!
     
  11. Roland'

    Roland' Lore Keeper
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    Hell ya lose alot of land mass. Some one smarter than i should think of a way to keep the new dungeons and other needed things like queens forge. make spawn locations for the new monsters over fel or malas. get rid of tyr and tokuno. but then again ya right people have houses already = (
     
  12. Demon Wind

    Demon Wind Sage
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    Too much politics not enough playing I say leave it all alone. Play the game as best we can and enjoy what we can. Why dwell on issues that can or can not be changed. When the Devs see fit to change things, we will still complain because no one thing will ever satify the entire masses of the game.
     
  13. Critical Gaming

    Critical Gaming Lore Master
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    Lol, that's what I said!

    PLAY THE GAME :(

    Thank you, demon wind!
     
  14. Calibretto

    Calibretto Guest

    faction prices should be lowered. Anyone who pvps knows this will help the shard. Easier to equip makes it easier to fight. No all people have time to farm so much silver. (I have a job).
     
  15. Critical Gaming

    Critical Gaming Lore Master
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    Wow. It's great to see people who actually PvP give their input for once.

    Thanks guys.
     
  16. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    i liked reading this :thumbup1:
     
  17. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    HEY NOW !!! &$$$$$$$$$$&&&&&&&&&&% !!

    I AM WOMAN and I do NOT pvp anymore and *I* said we should lower prices of silver !! Reason being while I play *just crafters here* a couple of my chrs. gate guys to get a res at my ankhs and usually after they lost a pricey suit that cost em lots of silver and 2 of em that played here never come back cuz they were broke didnt have the gp to buy nor time to farm silver for hours. I myself have not been in factions for any length of time, since factions were new, to UO ! And then I was in CoM for the challenge of tryin to protect a crappy airy stronghold. :)

    Sadly... I NEVER SEEN THOSE FEW GUYS, SINCE I tried to help em. They were couple of newer guys I ran into past several mos. of playing, that went back to some reg. shard where they WERE drippin in silver and suits and insurance. Those few experiences with a couple really frustrated hopefuls here, that LEFT, just told me those folks that DO wish to pvp and be more seriously involved in factions and newer here on Siege, probably won't last long on Siege, if they not drippin in silver and TIME to keep farming it !!

    Seems silly to me, a female crafter playing Non factioner non pvper chrs., that silver should even be so darn high on Siege...if it costs us even 1 new Siege, hopeful broke, not a lotta time to farm silver, wanna-be decent suited up fond of being a factioner ![ I'd rather not loose any potential new immigrants coming here, hopin to become perma wannabe factioners on Siege like they maybe were elsewhere.]

    rolleyes: just sayin ' don't clump us womenfolk non pvpers, all under one generalisation !
     
  18. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
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    I think the whole system is broken. There should be NO silver whatsoever.
    Faction items should be purchased with PUNKTE and PUNKTE gained by capturing sigils, as well as by killing enemy faction.

    Make there be a reason to guard sigils again!
     
  19. Mr.StinkyPants

    Mr.StinkyPants Slightly Crazed
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    dude thats a way better idea, farming is lame.
     
  20. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Cleaned up
    Keep it civil.
     
  21. I thought EA was going to put an entire new faction system in,

    Based on activity, so everyone just cant wear rank 10 items
     
  22. Roland'

    Roland' Lore Keeper
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    I heard something about this too. test center has only three factions and in different locations?
     
  23. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
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    I'm not sure what system they have in store. The problem will not change if it is based on silver.

    You can afk farm silver and stock up on suits. Then you have an issue of "haves and have nots"... and thats really an issue of who has and has not taming.

    If the point of collecting silver was to cause faction fights at the hot spots, that just isn't happening on Siege... instead we have afk farmers and not enough players to care to hunt them down and kill them.

    If faction gear were changed to being purchased with faction points, then it would put a real value on the sigils, as that would be the only way to introduce more points into the system, though points can be moved from player to player by killing or honoring leadership as always.

    Suits would be more difficult to obtain, as the sigils only give out 80 points if you capture them all ( which could be adjusted sure ), and you'll see less full suits on the field in a short matter of time, and eventually would see more GM leather suits with just one or two faction pieces, thereby leveling the playing field again.

    There would be no more buy back, as I propose to remove the names on the items too. Killing your enemy should allow you faction points and USABLE gear.
    If the names are not removed, I propose the items can be dropped into your Faction chest for more faction points, maybe 1/4 the cost. That would help clean up the hording of faction gear.

    Also, having your purchasing power tied directly to your toon makes dying more risky... and that's what this shard is all about, right?

    I dont see how this would interfere with EA's plans of equip related issues based on activity, they actually work hand in hand.
     
  24. Roland'

    Roland' Lore Keeper
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    People would just farm sigils for punkte and share it with there guildies. wed all still run what ever gear we wanted.
     
  25. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
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    That's fine. That's the intention. Tranferring faction points by honoring another player already has a certain amount of loss in transfer.

    Consider a faction rune might cost 1 faction point.

    An orny might cost 300 faction points.

    If the sigils are only giving out 10 per, you'd better be cautious as to how you spend and distribute your points. Transfering points to another player effectively increases the cost of purchases by 25% ( or whatever the loss rate is on transfer ).

    Someone could transfer their points to a crafter toon to keep them safe, then tranfer them back when they want to purchase something... now they just lost 50% of their points transferring twice... I can live with that.
     
  26. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Too many holes in your suggestion. A lot of your issues are not faction issues, but population issues. Unfortunate, but not something you can fix without more players.

    Silver can be a better currency for the faction system if it reasonably follows supply and demand. The currnet problem with silver prices is that the demand is way too high for the supply and nobody, but the elite are able to navigate the system. The elite do not die as often and therefore do not need to spend as much to continue reaping the benefits. Lowering farty silver prices is just asking to make participating in factions more reasonable to the less skilled, less experienced players... aka leveling the playing field in factions.

    You don't need taming. There isn't a single faction mob that requires that class of character to beat. A dexer, mage, bard, tamer, whatever (monster combat worthy) character can do just fine.

    Siege has the hero/evil dye system since day one. Buy-backs have always been a part of this shard. If an evil factioner kills a good factioner... then the same thing applies. I don't think tying the gear to the character was a good idea, but it's not the issue people here try to make it out to be. The issue with buy-backs is that its too expensive because silver is too expensive. Fix silver and you fix that problem too... then buy backs become more about making a little pocket change for your kill, rather than deciding whether or not to **** somebody else over.

    Making suits be more difficult to obtain isn't a good idea either. That is the whole problem with the current system and why many players are discouraged from even participating. They don't feel they stand any chance against the elite.. The elite who would control the sigils in this system, still run the good gear like they currently do and still be driving competition out of the system because of it.

    If the Developers wanted to make capturing sigils mean something, then there would need to be real incentives for doing so. Real incentives like warhorses used to be before no pet stamina loss or bonding ever existed. Real incentives for crafters to use the NPC towns (instead of their homes.) Real incentives for players to fight and control the cities.

    Taxes was supposed to be one of those incentives, but as the population matured and things like 100% LRC became more common... buying regs (which used to be a huge sub-economy to this game) became obsolete. Faction vendors are... obsolete. Something else needs to be made to replace those systems if you want sigils to really have a point. Relying on faction artifacts to do so will only make the have/have not problem even worse.
     
  27. Roland'

    Roland' Lore Keeper
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    you do realize maybe 2 people on SP have more than 300 kill points. if an orny cost more than 100 no one would have them and even then a select few between 80-100.
     
  28. Black magick

    Black magick Guest

    What are the odds that whatever changes they make to the faction system are going to be based on prodo and made to revolve around only needing one suit? I think it'll be high.
     
  29. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
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    I must disagree. I believe the proposed system would work on prodo as well.


    Do away with silver, and do away with the 'elite' who have time to afk farm.


    Take the names off the gear and make people hero/evil dye as in days of old. Simple.


    This is Siege. Buy backs are a carebear form of insurance. Take the names off the gear and you'll have zero buybacks. If you're Dueling for the sake of dueling, and if there were any honour in it, there wouldn't be any looting taking place, therefore no need to buy back in the first palce.
    If you want a little pocket change, I assume you'd enjoy my proposed system, as the winner would automatically take some of the losers purchasing power.


    Gank the "elite" a few times and the playing field is leveled, then they'd have to capture sigils to obtain the gear again too. Capturing them is easy, holding on to them when they are valuable isn't.


    Agreed. Times have changed, systems evolve. I can cast a few Rising Colossuses at a Bone Daemon now and the fight is over in 5 minutes tops... this used to be more of a challenge for a solo player. I killed a skeletal dragon in Abyss with RC too... so should all the monsters be tweaked tougher to get with the times or should the RC be tweaked back?
    The old systems that gave value to sigils are uselss now... do we ignore the problem or make them valuable by needing the points for more than how many items you can equip?

    I dont follow your reasoning. If faction gear is to be obtained and used, it should be a reward of helping your faction control a town, not because you killed a few monsters in some remote location while afk.
     
  30. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    I disagree. Point mules will hold all the points. Points would rarely be obtained from killing another player since they will be on point mules until they need them to purchase the gear.

    Points will be horded and only the elite (or politically savvy) will have access to the items. Too many people will be left out for taking the same risks including pvpers who have success in defeating enemy factioners.

    Sorry.

    Getting silver from mobs has nothing to do with being 'elite'. Your tying two unrelated things together. This is all about your aversion to monster hunting and nothing to do with the real issue.

    Agreed, but thats low priority and least of what should be worried about to fix factions.

    Also - please know this would encourage point mules even more.......

    Try to stop looking at this through your personal lens.

    Your system is flawed. You wouldn't be taking anything because people would be hording the points until they needed to use them. The elite who control the sigils will be the only ones with the means to even obtain the items and even less people will have access to them. Even more people will be at a disadvantage and discouraged from even participating.

    On Siege, it will be BFF controlling factions and running the good gear while everyone else is still crying no fair.

    No. Same flaws.

    You don't say anything to disagree with here. I'm up for revamping the importance of sigils... just not in the way you hope for. It's just not a good idea for making factions better for faction players. It caters too much to a few individuals and leaves too many in the dust.

    I don't follow yours either. There should be rewards for controlling faction towns, but I don't see how you can justify making the rewards what you've attempted to.

    There is nothing wrong with getting silver from monsters and players. I get it that you personally don't like the taste of it, but that doesn't make it out to be what you're trying to.
     
  31. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
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    I see your problem, and I agree it may be a valid concern. It is easy to fix however, but it will require keeping the names on the items. Don't stop the scoring system at -6, as it is currently. Do not put a cap in either direction. You can have players with -300 points. This will stop people from transferring to mules to purchase unnamed items to be given to main toon, as the name would stop them from being able to use it. Instead of 10% faction points on a kill, or 1 point if player is below 0, make it 10% of faction points per kill, or 10 points, whichever will give the greater amount. Problem solved.

    Snipped alot of post because I feel it was addressed here.

    I really don't care one way or the other. I dont use faction gear, and the silver I do farm goes to making faction traps. My personal preference isn't a part of my consideration. It just makes sense to me that the benefits of a faction system should be gained by participation in faction related activity, which farming silver shouldn't be one of them.
     
  32. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Artifacts should not come from a vending machine... They should be crafted, by faction crafters using silver over a forge in a town that faction controls.
     
  33. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
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    Definitly need to be changes. I wanna get more active, and go factions, but to be honest, with the son and trying for another, housework etc, I dont have the time to farm for 8hrs of silver (not fun), to get a suit, which would be gone in a matter of minutes, cause well im not very good at PvP, but ill get there. But cant afford buy backs (cause I dont play every minute of every day), nor can I farm enough silver, so for now, factions isnt an option.

    And removing the name wont do much, since the elite, will just gank and slaughter everyone, and lock the gear away for a rainy day in thier castles, so when they die, they have 3000 lockdowns worth of suits to choose from.
     
  34. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Defiantly needs to be changed... It does not work well with Siege.
     
  35. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
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    That's a good idea in spirit, but I don't think it addresses the current situaton, it only gives everyone a chance to kill a faction crafter.

    Perhaps make it so you can only purchase items from faction chest if you control at least 5/8 of the towns?

    Thats assuming we keep the silver system.
     
  36. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Then that crafter should be well gaurded...
     
  37. Kael

    Kael Certifiable
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    I like this idea.

    There needs to be an actual point to factions rather than just guarenteed faction artifacts for doing some farming.

    Control the towns and increase the amount of silver you get with each faction creature farmed. Make there a reason to have different templates rather than just the flavor of the month. Encourage faction thieves, guarding of sigils rather than the usual Luna house fights.
     
  38. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    And what would the difference be Mr. All might kelmo? Everyone and their mother has a crafter now. This wouldn't benefit anyone more than it does now... All you people with these god sent ideas. Lower the cost and the issue is over!


    Their are two types of players. Those that wanna pvp will join factions. Those that don't want to pvp will not join factions, but will still want all the same bonuses! Get real!!
     
  39. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Just two types of players. 'eh? Really?
     
  40. Critical Gaming

    Critical Gaming Lore Master
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    lol, this thread needs to end.

    lock?
     
  41. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Dude. I am as real as it gets. Siege is so much more than a third person shooter game. Siege is the whole package.

    We play here as a choice. We are not trammies. Some hide. Some stealth. So do you guys.

    Just saying, don't be a hater... Cherise ever Siege player.
     
  42. Mr.StinkyPants

    Mr.StinkyPants Slightly Crazed
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    well what ever happens, i like the idea of making the town control thing more worth while, cause face it all that matters now in factions are the arties and the silver to obtain them, seems like there should be more to it, right?
     
  43. Kael

    Kael Certifiable
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    :thumbup1::thumbup1:
     
  44. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    So a faction keeps one or two characters (the thief) at just above 0 punkte and only logs the character in to take sigils or transfer the points to the point mule. Then the mule transfers it to whoever needs to stock up on some items and the whole system still doesn't work like you'd wish it would.

    Good try, but it just won't work the way you have it set up.
     
  45. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    I like this idea, but I don't think the developers would waste their time on something like this...

    If faction silver prices were reduced to a reasonable level and people were out fighting and dying way more often then now... then crafters could benefit from something like this.

    Without touching silver prices, nothing will change for the better. Only the elite will bother with factions... everyone else will be just as frustrated as they are right now.
     
  46. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
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    1. You cannot transfer points if in the negative. If the thief is killed even once, the sigil captured only erases the death toll.

    2. Transfering points to a mule has a certain amount of point loss built in.

    3. Transfering the points from the mule to another player to spend will incur more point loss on transfer.

    Do you really think it is worth it to transfer twice, causing 10 points to be devalued to 4? Wouldn't it make more sense for the thief to hand off the sigil to the player who needs the points so they can return it?

    Seems to me you just fear being shut out of faction gear... can't do without?
     
  47. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
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    But in the same token NS, it seems your giving all the faction points to the thiefs.
     
  48. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    No hate. Just wadding up your panties for good measure. Carry on, cupcakes! :)
     
  49. T'Challa

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    The original design doc for factions required a faction crafter to be in a controlled town in the building designated for that craft to be able to create "uber" (at the time) gear.

    It also required punkte to equip.

    Factions is broken through and through and has been for many years. Silver is not the only issue. Fixing silver only makes a broken system...well, still broken.
     
  50. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
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    Thieves are required to steal the sigils, yes, but they are not required to be the ones to return them to the pedestal for the points. The thief can pass the sigil on to another faction member.

    Remove the stealing requirement for removing the sigil from your own base, and I am okay with that too.
     
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