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What if...? (re: Pirate Expansion)

Discussion in 'UHall' started by WarderDragon, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. WarderDragon

    WarderDragon Babbling Loonie
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    What if at some point the developers chose to revist the old and now mostly untouched content of previous expansions (i.e. Samurai Empire) and inserted new content to make it viable again?

    What if the continents of Britannia and Tokunoshima were linked to one another? What if you could sail from Trinsic or Vesper to Zento? Ilshenar and Malas would fall back into the Sea. (And become Serpents Isle and the Land of Darkness and Despair of Ultima Lore.) Treasure Hunting would be redesigned and thieving skills would be consolidated to make it a more intuitive and rewarding playstyle.

    What if new ships were designed; everything from Ancient Greek Warships (complete with galley slaves) and Viking Longboats to cannon-adorned Man O' Wars? What if the oceans between the continents were set to a Feluccan Rule Set prompting danger on the high seas outside the protection of Queen Dawn's Realm?

    Just some random musings. Discuss.
     
  2. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Sadly piracy is always gonna be hampered by the crappy way boats work if you ask me.

    But It would be sweet if you could sail to any facet, and giving non pvp thieves something to do beside pick up trash would be nice too.
     
  3. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    Since Hawkeye Pike is on vacation, I feel obliged to put in his standard link to his pirate expansion proposal:
    http://www.aschulze.net/ultima/blog/blog_20090220.htm

    Though I think it would be possible to create a pirate expansion without a lot of adjustments to the boat travel, since they've said time and again in the past that reworking the boats isn't going to happen quickly (if at all!).

    Imagine:
    -Water based champion spawns where all creatures can attack people on boats ("archers", water elemental types, etc)
    -A string of small islands attached together by bridges of both the rope-bridge type (as found in the back of the terathan dungeon) or the "normal" type (as found nearly everywhere else). Enough bridges can make choke point defenses difficult.
    -Reworking dungeons to include pirate-based encounters (buried treasure in the dungeons, pirate-zombies, pirate king peerless). Hythloth, being on the water, can be a good dungeon to update, for example. You can even keep the demon theme, aka fan-dancer dojo where the demons "command" the pirates. Wrong would also be great for a champion/peerless type pirate encounter in both Felucca and Trammel (the third level would be great for an encounter, as we've seen in the old Halloween event with the spiders).
    -Treasure maps, of course, would receive an overhaul. Perhaps adding in a different kind of map of "pirate treasures"

    And so forth...
     
  4. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    A pirate expansion is something I'd love to see.

    The producer said they had planned for one before it was changed to ML, So who knows what code/plans they have from then that may help them.
     
  5. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    That galleon picture is really cool.

    I'm all for pirates and the like, but I don't think most of these ideas would be implemented. However, I went to an EM event on Chesapeake which was pretty neat, in which they actually set the event in the deep seas and we had to hop onto boats and fight stuff then we went into an underground water cave place with sea serpents and such...

    You know, I think it might be more practical if there was a new champion based on land around an oasis, and from that oasis, perhaps the champ could spawn. Maybe a hidden spawn, like the labyrinth. Big old leviathan boss or something :p. But the Terathan Keep like set-up w/ bridges is interesting too. It would have to be very large though, as large as primeval lich area.
     
  6. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    unless the player-base switches to the Enhanced Client.

    It can handle the water-movement much better.
     
  7. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    Draconi recently told us that they were going to put in a pirate expansion, but then scrapped it for the Mondain's Legacy (elves).

    Original thread here.
    He gave a funny little scenario.

    It's only natural that they progress onto either something with Ocean & Ships, or, more Gargoyle related stuff. I wouldn't rush the Guardian in yet.

    The Pirate expansion would take time. The way I would do it is.... gargoyle related stuff would be minor updates and content to hold us over while they push forward a complete new ship & ocean & fishing revamp Expansion.
     
  8. Specialshoes

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    Cal has made reference to "more of other players loot in your pockets". Treasure maps are getting some love. That is only enough to form a vague speculation of a speculation but makes me think piracy is the next expansion.
     
  9. Nok

    Nok Lore Master
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    Been wanting navies and pirates in UO forever, but it's true... the CC and backend (server code & databases) really couldn't pull it off well.

    But there are alternatives...

    [youtube]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jUeuYiFNRgM&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jUeuYiFNRgM&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]
     
  10. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I thought the pirate expansion was a secret.
     
  11. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Sadly true. In addition to the fact that buc's den is plagued with server lines.

    Would still love a pirate expansion though. Could bring life to thieves again, pvp or non pvp thieves.
     
  12. BajaElladan

    BajaElladan Certifiable
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    Not sure I am fully and correctly understanding your "what if." If you are suggesting any waters currently under the Trammel rule set be changed to the Felucca rule set I would be opposed to that, and I expect most others who live and play outside of Felucca would also oppose it.

    Adding new sea creatures with new and desirable loot, improving sea treasure nets and their loot, may all be welcome ideas.

    If it is possible to add sea content without depriving current players from continuing to enjoy their seas as they have for almost 13 years, fine. If new content comes only by reducing existing opportunities, again I would be opposed to that path, and hope many others would oppose that path.

    I hope folks will make known their views in forums such as this rather than making them known only as their final action as they close accounts and depart our world.

    If I am misunderstanding the OP I look forward to any clarification.

    Elladan of Baja
     
  13. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    Might have been a good idea when the game was based in just the one facet, but now, it would be just more fluff, without any real substance.

    I recall players having their own "pirate" fun back in pre-Tram days. Groups of players, pirate hats, mages and archers for projectile attacks.

    You just don't see player-pirate sea battles any more.

    I'm thinking they already "missed the boat" by not having it in the game a long time ago.

    In the current game, unless in Fel, or if they make very big changes to the game mechanics... you can't steal from someone, or engage in PvP with someone (unless in the same guild), in Tram. So how would being a pirate work? As a Tram based player, would one encounter random NPC crewed ships to raid? Would there be "opposites", being NPC pirate ships, which one could raid, representing some sort of "good" Britannian Royal Navy?

    Unless they bring back one ruleset, (don't fear those who don't like non-con PvP - that won't happen on prodo shards...), then any pirate expansion will be nothing more than adding glorified fishing, quests, a couple of new monsters, that's about it really. No real depth.

    The only way it could work (whilst actually being any good), is if it was based on opposing "factions", with a different ruleset for the seas, than the land. Don't know how feasible that would be, but my guess would be that it's unlikely.
     
  14. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    Pirates aren't too good at keeping secrets.
     
  15. WarderDragon

    WarderDragon Babbling Loonie
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    You understood me perfectly.

    I am suggesting that we increase the domain of PvP and expand it out to controlled areas (i.e. outside the authority of Queen Dawn) where we players can fight for dominance and naval supremacy. There could be oceanic champion spawns. Wenches. Warfare between Tokunoshima and Britannia. Shipping lanes that need to be protected from Pirates (Players) and undersea abominations that would make H.P. Lovecraft shudder in orgasmic delight.

    Ultima Online needs a new direction; one that isn't a pastiche imitation of the worst of Dungeons and Dragons and High Fantasy Lore. Lord British is gone. The world has long since fallen into lawlessness and despair; one that not even the combined efforts of Dawn and Zhah can stamp out.

    This isn't Merry England or the Shire.

    The seas are largely unused. Give it a purpose. Capitolize on all that open space. There are far more people playing this game for PvP (roleplayers included) than there ever once was.

    It disappoints me that they would scrap something like Piracy to implement... Elves?

    I have a problem with the way they were implemented. There was no attempt to make them even resemble something drawn from Ultima Lore. It was just a bad attempt to implement a group of happy tree-hugging fairy people.

    If I wanted to roleplay an effeminate hippie with no chest hair and pointed ears I could have done that as a human.
     
  16. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    I bet they'd make an eye patch with HCI on it... because they're smart like that.
     
  17. BajaElladan

    BajaElladan Certifiable
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    Thanks for clarification.

    However I, and I'm guessing most players, have NO desire to see Fel rule set expanded anywhere beyond Fel. Most would rather see Felucca closed instead of expanded. A reasonable compromise is to leave Felucca as it is, and let the vast majority of Players enjoy the rest of Sosaria as they do now.

    Just my feedback.

    Elladan of Baja

     
  18. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Interestingly, Mythbusters had a Pirate Special.
    One of the things they covered was the idea that the eyepatch could have been a means to be able to go from daylight to the hold of a ship without having to wait for their eyes to adapt to the low light.
    The idea itself worked, and was sound, but who know whether that's more of a "retcon"...
    But, it could work as HCI under those conditions, or at least reducing a hit chance penalty.
     
  19. Beleg Megil

    Beleg Megil Guest

    You don't really know much about elven lore, do ya there, chief? In most fantasy settings...which Ultima has elements of... Elves are a more ancient race than humans, and usually superior. Humans appear to them much like Cro Magnon man likely would appear to us. They are usually labled "happy tree-hugging fairy people" only by people with limitted understanding of fantasy lit. or mythology.

    Also, I'm not sure if you remember your Ultima lore, but Elves were in Ultima I. You were given a choice of four races: Human, Elf, Dwarf and ...yes, while Sosaria is "not The Shire", you were also allowed to play a "Bobbit". Any guess what inspired Garriott to come up with that one?

    Granted, whoever made Heartwood was blind and also had little to no sense of elven lore, but yes. Elves were always part of Ultima. Ultima lore technically can include every race ever imagined on Earth, Sosaria....outer space.... because the Ultima series really went all over the place. They could add a friggin' Cowboy expansion and technically be "staying true to Ultima". Or a Space expansion with spaceships (also in Ultima I). Or a Time travel expansion with new lands like...Detroit. Or Pangea (Ultima II).

    So yes, while pirates would be nice, as players have role-played pirates AND elves since day 1, don't be a **** about the elves, mate. Its just not cricket. And it could have been worse.


    Now, onto my thoughts about the pirate expansion: Pointless unless it comes with new lands that you can't get to or from by any other means other than ship. Its just common sense. Why would it make any sense to risk taking a boatload of goods to some destination that could be hours away by ship when you KNOW pirates are out there waiting for you, when its safer to load the cargo on packies and herd them through a gate?

    Also, I happen to know there were plans for firearms in the original pirate expansion plans. They were really cool, too. Had a reload rate and *sorta* functioned as another weapon as well. For instance, the muzzle-loader or whatever the riffle was called could be fired, then you used it like a spear weapon because of the bayonette on the end while you waited out the reload rate. I think pistols could be used as clubs (macing skill) and a blunderbuss had a stock that looked sorta like an axe and would be used as such (sword skill). Yes, I realize in the real world, you can't beat someone in the head with your pistol while you are loading the wadding, ball and a powder charge, but it was just a rough draft proposal from what I could tell.

    Anything beats using a crossbow and dying it and renaming it a "carbine" like people have to do now if they feel the need to RP firearms. :D
     
  20. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    Well, seeing as LBR already added "steam punk" to Ultima Online, anything goes I guess.
     
  21. Beleg Megil

    Beleg Megil Guest

    Yeah. That was gonna be pretty much the whole basis for UO2, or UO Worlds or whatever it was gonna be called. Steam Punk. I dunno, I can work with *almost* anything. And part of me has a sneaking suspicion more steam punk elements will be coming in.

    Personally I hoped they'd lean more towards the fantasy end of the speculative fiction spectrum, rather than the sci-fi end. The Shards of Sosaria are outside of the Ultima timelines, kinda like a bunch of alternate universes. So they are free to bring in anything from Ultima lore, and also free to ignore it completely, and they'd not be "doing it wrong".

    Kinda like the newest Star Trek movie. But please, Cal...let's leave space travel out of it, mkay? Exodus is as close as we need.
     
  22. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    Hey, not to worry...

    ...if SW:TOR falls flat on its face, UO might get light sabres and Jedi characters. Maybe even a new character class - Gungans. :D

    Ethereal Speeder Bike or Taun-Taun anyone? ;)
     
  23. Beleg Megil

    Beleg Megil Guest

    If they did revisit a pirate expansion, maybe they could work in Ambrosia. It was an underwater city.
     
  24. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    [​IMG]

    Sounds tasty...
     
  25. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I'd like to see boats priced according not only by size, but also durability. To take damage from weapons, monsters, and spells like fireball & area affects, and targetable, (but not by player teleport). A walk-in galley/hold would be nice. Maybe have small POS boats for cheap, for younger players, something really expensive like warships, and boats in between.And have a very dark night where you would use a lantern or etc. Add a weight limit - too overloaded & it sinks. Sinking gives looting rights. Just seems more realistic to me.
     
  26. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Was suppose to be ironic since it messes with depth perception, but I'd say night sight would be a more fitting mod.
     
  27. War Wizard

    War Wizard Journeyman
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    LMAO..... depth persception, it'll get ya every time *parry, thrust,.... you miss*
     
  28. Fink

    Fink Guest

    It wasn't steampunk as such. It's actually the opposite setting, post-electrical & pre-industrial. It seems based on the arcane as much as speculative technology. Also the Technocracy is a unified society, rather than rag-tag dissident individuals.

    But yes, I'm sure the overall idea was there, probably stemming from the "crap with cogs on" superficial aesthetic of the common interpretation steampunk.
     
  29. magicmule

    magicmule Journeyman
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    I am not really a fan of having muskets in the game. but, it only makes sense considering britannia has cannons!. Maybe Lord British hid all the firearms underneath his castle long ago knowing It would be the End of Britannia had he introduced them:gun:
     
  30. WarderDragon

    WarderDragon Babbling Loonie
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    I was originally going to debate this. Express my thoughts on playing a non-human race that is intrinsically more powerful and agile than all humans. Point out what Garriot said on why he removed Elves and Bobbits from Ultima. But I've a better idea. I'm going to put you on the spot.

    Tell me about Beleg Megil. The characters history. The backstory and lore. What deities does he worship? Where does he perceive the World Tree to be in the World? What are his perception of humans? What powers and unique abilities does he possess?

    When that is done I'll tell you about a piece of metafiction I intend to propose to some of the roleplayers on Baja. (I even have an Elf.) A way to connect the Heartwood and the Elements to the World Tree on Pagan.