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What if the new dragons would ressurect their owners?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by imported_revenant2, Feb 27, 2008.

  1. They've certainly got the magery for it.

    On a different twist, I'm not sure I want the dragons being able to greater heal their owners because that seems like too much in PVP (would be cool for pvm tho, wouldn't it?).

    The dragon being able to ressurect the owner sounds neat as heck and it could be implemented in a way to where it wouldn't throw a monkeywrench into PVP. If they made it so that the dragon wouldn't offer a rez to the player if it was engaged in fighting, I think that would cover the PVP side of it.

    The low-magery dragons could perhaps fizzle it for a while, just like people at like 102 -106 magery do.
     
  2. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Nah, rather a chance that if we tamers die they loot us and head off
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    I think it would make more sense if they eat your body and all your stuff and poot out ingots.
     
  4. humaofcats

    humaofcats Guest

    yeah making the new dragons even more powerful is just what we need
     
  5. Dean478

    Dean478 Seasoned Veteran
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    <blockquote><hr>

    They've certainly got the magery for it.

    On a different twist, I'm not sure I want the dragons being able to greater heal their owners because that seems like too much in PVP (would be cool for pvm tho, wouldn't it?).

    The dragon being able to ressurect the owner sounds neat as heck and it could be implemented in a way to where it wouldn't throw a monkeywrench into PVP. If they made it so that the dragon wouldn't offer a rez to the player if it was engaged in fighting, I think that would cover the PVP side of it.

    The low-magery dragons could perhaps fizzle it for a while, just like people at like 102 -106 magery do.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Why? Why would you want that? Just because from a game mechanics point of view they have magery?

    There needs to be some logical fiction, lore and REASON for this other than "it makes my death less of a burdon".
     
  6. humaofcats

    humaofcats Guest

    umm I was being sarcastic
     
  7. DrDolittle

    DrDolittle Journeyman
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    Although they can heal you, a Cu Sidhe, even at GM healing and anatomy, can not rez it’s master so it is highly unlikely that they would let dragons rez their masters. Knowing dragons, they would be more inclined to laugh at you than rez you. But, bottom line, I don’t think that pets need to be able to rez their masters.

    If you want to be able to rez yourself go build up the Sacrifice Virtue; that can be a life saver. Well, not exactly saver but it can come in handy if no one else is around. And, speaking of sacrifice and pets rezzing their masters, I have a funny story.

    One evening, many years ago, I was training my trusted nightmare MrEdII on liches in Ilshenar. As Ed was doing battle with one lich another lich spawned and decided to vent its ire upon me. Due to a particularity annoying spell combination, cast by the lich from a particularity annoying three screens away, I died. Ed finished with his current foe and then easily dispatched the lich which had sent me to the gray realm.

    As Ed trotted back to my side I used the Sacrifice Virtue to resurrect myself. A warrior, who was also doing battle in the area, saw this and asked “Wow, did your mare just rez you?”

    My first thought was to explain the Sacrifice Virtue but I decided to have a bit of fun first and replied, “Oh, yes, a highly trained nightmare will do that”.

    The warrior was completely amazed as I preceded to spin a yarn about how loyal pets could be trained to defend and even resurrect their masters. After a few minutes I relented and explained what had really happened but I had this fellow completely convinced that MrEdII had resurrected me from the dead.
     
  8. xxEvolusxx

    xxEvolusxx Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I think it would make more sense if they eat your body and all your stuff and poot out ingots.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    agag
     
  9. imported_NBG

    imported_NBG Guest

    I think um dragon loves gold and this greater dragon loooooves gold so it should lower the gold you loot from monster by a certain % since it is so powerful.

    hehe
     
  10. <blockquote><hr>

    One evening, many years ago, I was training my trusted nightmare MrEdII on liches in Ilshenar. As Ed was doing battle with one lich another lich spawned and decided to vent its ire upon me. Due to a particularity annoying spell combination, cast by the lich from a particularity annoying three screens away, I died. Ed finished with his current foe and then easily dispatched the lich which had sent me to the gray realm.

    As Ed trotted back to my side I used the Sacrifice Virtue to resurrect myself. A warrior, who was also doing battle in the area, saw this and asked “Wow, did your mare just rez you?”

    My first thought was to explain the Sacrifice Virtue but I decided to have a bit of fun first and replied, “Oh, yes, a highly trained nightmare will do that”.

    The warrior was completely amazed as I preceded to spin a yarn about how loyal pets could be trained to defend and even resurrect their masters. After a few minutes I relented and explained what had really happened but I had this fellow completely convinced that MrEdII had resurrected me from the dead.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    heheeh thats funny!

    Yeah right now, on-location rezzing is tied directly to the sacrifice virtue, or a spellweaving spell having been used, or having someone else there to do it.

    Considering the spellweaving context, it doesn't seem out of place for tamers to have one pet available that can do it.

    And to respond to another post, I can't see where it would be overpowering if it's done right.

    In PVP, if you killed the tamer, you probably already have the dragon on you so it wouldn't be standing there like, ready to begin rezzing the guy. In any case you can attack the dragon and if implemented the way I was thinking, it wouldn't attempt to rez right there, it would go for you instead.

    But, that's not even how I'd handle it, if I had just killed a tamer who was using a superdragon.

    I'd invis myself a couple of times to get the dragon off of me, then uninvis, and just stand around a bit. Please, go ahead and take that rez.....

    Being rezzed by something that doesn't invis or heal you right afterwards isn't necessarily a favor in PVP now is it [​IMG]


    I'd need to be shown some examples of where an otherwise idle, unengaged dragon rezzing its owner would overpower the template, because I can't think of one.

    Cu sidhes... yeah.. I don't feel like the cu sidhe's healing its owner accounts for much. It happens kinda infrequently in practice and when it does happen it seems quite slow.
     
  11. Dean478

    Dean478 Seasoned Veteran
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    <blockquote><hr>

    umm I was being sarcastic

    [/ QUOTE ]


    That wasn't directed at you.
     
  12. <blockquote><hr>

    There needs to be some logical fiction, lore and REASON for this other than "it makes my death less of a burdon".

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Logical fiction? hm... it's a 102 - 120 level mage. It likes you and prefers you to be alive. It's your bonded buddy. After all, you ressurect and heal it enough, right?

    Maybe limit it to tamers with 120 natural vet skill, if it should be considered all that amazing a thing. Or 120 vet plus 120 lore. Wouldn't say require 120 natural taming, thats sorta too exclusionary IMO, considering the speed of taming gains. But if they wanted to be totally tough about it, that could be there, too.

    Oh and reason? uh, because it makes my death less of a burden and it's neat. Assuming the dragon survives whatever it was chewing on while you died. If both you and the dragon die, you're SOL.

    Spellweaving can do it. Take whichever spellweaving-related reasons for having a skill/spell cause a self-rez and apply it to this one, if it helps. I don't actually know what they are, if they exist.

    I don't see where it would unbalance anything and it seems positive, is all. The high-magery dragons would be the ones who are good at it. It would be just one more interesting, good thing.
     
  13. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    They really should have made these Super Dragons, Non Bonding..imo.
     
  14. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    What if the new dragons rezzed their owners and...

    Carried them on soft cushy pillows on their back while they slay every monster in game.

    ..and loot gold for the player.
    ..and sent gold it to the bank in their dragon bagball of sending.
    ..and cast curse on their own to work their resist skills while farming.
    ..and sat in Luna as a 'dragon vendor' spamming 'Doom arties for sale' while said owner is logged off.
    ..and crafted items and filled bods while owner takes a nap.
    ..and learned to fish from a boat and travel the seas fishing up white pearls.
    ..and completed champ spawns while the owner shopped around luna.
    ..and could place castles on top of other players smaller houses thus demolishing them.
    ..and teleported to your room IRL and gave you a massage and read bedtime stories to you.

    Seriously man, what else do you want these dragons to do? Isn't it enough you can now run the guantlet with hardly healing them? With being able to take down para bloods with just a few vets?

    Some people have no limits to their greed/desires it seems.


    Personally I think they should have 2% chance in any fight of turning on their owner, yelling 'Shut yer piehole you lazy tamer' and fireballing them into the ground.
     
  15. Personally I think they should have 2% chance in any fight of turning on their owner, yelling 'Shut yer piehole you lazy tamer' and fireballing them into the ground.
    [​IMG]
    /signed
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    No... just no.

    Leave the lazy tamers to spawn camp with cu sidhe instead. It heals itself and the tamer, more than enough. They're enough embarrassment to the tamer profession, please no more [​IMG]

    Giving a tamer a big tank dragon that does plenty of damage, and also saves their backside if they die, is just too much. The only balance to this pet (aside from 5 slots) is the fact that during your hunt a para bally might target the tamer instead of their dragon. Sometimes you just need to take it on the chin.

    If anything, such a great powerful pet should randomly mass curse and be a handful for the tamer. Not some luvvy-duvvy fluffy pet that fawns over a fallen master. We have more than enough with this pet already, thanks.

    Wenchy
     
  17. how about if the dragon casted ev's
     
  18. Dean478

    Dean478 Seasoned Veteran
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    <blockquote><hr>


    Logical fiction? hm... it's a 102 - 120 level mage.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You're metagaming. You're discussing mechanics, not fiction and reason. For example, a necromancer uses nasty magic because they are a nasty necromancer, not because they have 100 in the necromancer skill. One is before the other.

    There is no evidence dragons can resurect. Their magic seems to be very offensive and nothing else. Why give them a ressurrect ability all of a sudden? Only to pets? Do we let dragons start resing inside Destard?


    <blockquote><hr>


    Oh and reason? uh, because it makes my death less of a burden and it's neat.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    And so does my electrical force field generator and my laser gun. Neither of which make sense fictionally before we talk mechanics.


    <blockquote><hr>


    I don't see where it would unbalance anything and it seems positive, is all. The high-magery dragons would be the ones who are good at it. It would be just one more interesting, good thing.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It negates the need for the sacrifice virtue, you can't just bring in something that cancels out a mechanic, rather than oppose it in different situations.
     
  19. "Do we let dragons start resing inside Destard?"

    Now that thar would be funny. I don't care who ya are.

    Git r Done!
     
  20. Stigmatas

    Stigmatas Babbling Loonie
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    A pet ressing its owner is ok fine by me, as long as my sword starts doing the same.

    So...nah.

    Go build Sacrifice :p
     
  21. Dean478

    Dean478 Seasoned Veteran
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    <blockquote><hr>

    "Do we let dragons start resing inside Destard?"

    Now that thar would be funny. I don't care who ya are.

    Git r Done!

    [/ QUOTE ]


    It would be a tough mechanic. Add some real strategy to your battle. Imagine the same, a skeletal mage at the bottom of Deceit starting to res those fallen bone knights.

    The dragons themselves don't "cast" magic like we do. They breathe fire etc. The only reason it seems they "cast" magic is because they opperate on the same mechanic.
     
  22. <blockquote><hr>

    What if the new dragons rezzed their owners and...

    Carried them on soft cushy pillows on their back while they slay every monster in game.

    ..and loot gold for the player.
    ..and sent gold it to the bank in their dragon bagball of sending.
    ..and cast curse on their own to work their resist skills while farming.
    ..and sat in Luna as a 'dragon vendor' spamming 'Doom arties for sale' while said owner is logged off.
    ..and crafted items and filled bods while owner takes a nap.
    ..and learned to fish from a boat and travel the seas fishing up white pearls.
    ..and completed champ spawns while the owner shopped around luna.
    ..and could place castles on top of other players smaller houses thus demolishing them.
    ..and teleported to your room IRL and gave you a massage and read bedtime stories to you.

    Seriously man, what else do you want these dragons to do? Isn't it enough you can now run the guantlet with hardly healing them? With being able to take down para bloods with just a few vets?

    Some people have no limits to their greed/desires it seems.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can't figure why in the world you took the time to type out all that ******** crap. It's nowhere close to a personification of my idea.

    <blockquote><hr>


    Personally I think they should have 2% chance in any fight of turning on their owner, yelling 'Shut yer piehole you lazy tamer' and fireballing them into the ground.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    heheheheheh!!! I like that!
     
  23. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>


    Logical fiction? hm... it's a 102 - 120 level mage.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You're metagaming. You're discussing mechanics, not fiction and reason. For example, a necromancer uses nasty magic because they are a nasty necromancer, not because they have 100 in the necromancer skill. One is before the other.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    huhhhhhhh. Are you a 'roleplayer' or something?

    I use necromancy because I like Vamp form for its 20% hit life leech and the mana and stamina regen, and the pasty white skin doesn't look bad against my black vet robe. Not because it's an effort to make out that my char is somehow 'nasty'.

    <blockquote><hr>


    There is no evidence dragons can resurect. Their magic seems to be very offensive and nothing else. Why give them a ressurrect ability all of a sudden? Only to pets? Do we let dragons start resing inside Destard?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Evidence, huh what?

    This is a video game where they can make dragons or any other pet or monster do whatever they want. The 'why' would be: because they decided to.

    All the evidence I need to see of an ability to magery resurrect is when I pull up my animal lore gump and I see 124.7 magery sitting there. In fact, that particular dragon looks like a never-fizzle deal, to me.

    If one wanted to look directly at cases of contextually-implied 'evidence', fully trained cu sidhes look as though they should be able to resurrect as well. 90+ healing and GM anatomy means resurrection capability, in my mind, and plus, they already do heal their owners on occasion! Hey, what's bugged with cu sidhes, why aren't they rezzing! } not serious comment {

    But now that you mention it, in Doom 2, the Arch-Vile ressurects monsters that you recently killed by going to the corpses and doing it. You present the idea of dragons resurrecting one another in Destard as though it could never be fit into the game. Maybe that's coming next!

    I think I'll stop here... if you're a roleplayer of some sort, we're not going to make sense to one another.
     
  24. Dean478

    Dean478 Seasoned Veteran
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    <blockquote><hr>


    huhhhhhhh. Are you a 'roleplayer' or something?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Are you trying to be rude or something?

    By 'roleplayer' do you mean I like to develop a personality and act it out actively in-game? No. I am me. But I am also me as a grand master swordsman. But in a sense that is 'roleplaying' isn't it? Wouldn't that then make us all roleplayers? Pretty dynamic term huh? We'll draw boundaries for that later.

    <blockquote><hr>


    I use necromancy because I like Vamp form for its 20% hit life leech and the mana and stamina regen, and the pasty white skin doesn't look bad against my black vet robe. Not because it's an effort to make out that my char is somehow 'nasty'.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Wow, way to completely take something out of context. Stop quoting game mechanics, I said you need a FICTIONAL justification for adding something to the game. (aka EXPLANATION WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE GAME)

    "Hey let's add spaceships, that'll fix the problem with necromancers being over powered". Yeah it probably will, but spaceships aren't within the context of Ultima. Get it yet?

    <blockquote><hr>


    This is a video game where they can make dragons or any other pet or monster do whatever they want. The 'why' would be: because they decided to.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's also a form of expression. It has every established setting. You can't just add things for any reason. This kind of thinking is the reason Ultima has become perverted with it's setting over the past years with elves, medieval Japenese content and sunglasses.

    <blockquote><hr>


    All the evidence I need to see of an ability to magery resurrect is when I pull up my animal lore gump and I see 124.7 magery sitting there. In fact, that particular dragon looks like a never-fizzle deal, to me.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Again you missed my earlier point. That is a game mechanic you are quoting. Notice that despite that magery skill, dragons don't cast all the spells available? They don't summon blade spirits eitehr do they? Why? Because dragons don't do that. As far as Ultima lore is concerned, they breathe fire among a few other offensive abilities.

    <blockquote><hr>


    But now that you mention it, in Doom 2, the Arch-Vile ressurects monsters that you recently killed by going to the corpses and doing it. You present the idea of dragons resurrecting one another in Destard as though it could never be fit into the game. Maybe that's coming next!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Apples are nothing like oranges!

    <blockquote><hr>


    I think I'll stop here... if you're a roleplayer of some sort, we're not going to make sense to one another.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No doubt you're using that as an insult even though I proved I don't fit in your definition of a 'roleplayer', actually you never really defined it. You're using stereotypes here.

    By the way here I was trying to offer constructive criticism to better present yoru case rather than a "lol lets add this is it's cool" argument that made no real logical sense gameplay wise and game setting wise. Now you're trying to insult me by calling me names and categorising me in some pretty crude ways. Way to completely debunk your argument by acting like a rude and condescending prick, good luck trying to draw any positive support to your case now.
     
  25. Kat SP

    Kat SP Guest

    It'd be cool if the new dragon's would dismount too!! [​IMG]
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    "What if the new dragons rezzed their owners and...

    Carried them on soft cushy pillows on their back while they slay every monster in game.

    ..and loot gold for the player.
    ..and sent gold it to the bank in their dragon bagball of sending.
    ..and cast curse on their own to work their resist skills while farming.
    ..and sat in Luna as a 'dragon vendor' spamming 'Doom arties for sale' while said owner is logged off.
    ..and crafted items and filled bods while owner takes a nap.
    ..and learned to fish from a boat and travel the seas fishing up white pearls.
    ..and completed champ spawns while the owner shopped around luna.
    ..and could place castles on top of other players smaller houses thus demolishing them.
    ..and teleported to your room IRL and gave you a massage and read bedtime stories to you."

    I don't know about any of you, but I loved these ideas myself. Let's get this implemented, lol. That made me laugh very hard.
     
  27. what about the dragon can go hunt alone and bring home all the gold while i stay lazy at home?

    you can be glad if the dragons wont be nerfed in the next patches ...so dont ask to make them more powerful like they are at the moment ...
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    ...spaceships aren't within the context of Ultima...

    [/ QUOTE ]...unless you count the Kilrathi Dralthi in Ultima VII.

    Search the fields near the Hoe of Destruction shed and you'll find a downed Kilrathi fighter (a Dralthi). The locals tell of a strange creature that wandered the area after the crash.
     
  29. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    ...spaceships aren't within the context of Ultima...

    [/ QUOTE ]...unless you count the Kilrathi Dralthi in Ultima VII.

    Search the fields near the Hoe of Destruction shed and you'll find a downed Kilrathi fighter (a Dralthi). The locals tell of a strange creature that wandered the area after the crash.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Zing!
     
  30. Dean478

    Dean478 Seasoned Veteran
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    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    ...spaceships aren't within the context of Ultima...

    [/ QUOTE ]...unless you count the Kilrathi Dralthi in Ultima VII.

    Search the fields near the Hoe of Destruction shed and you'll find a downed Kilrathi fighter (a Dralthi). The locals tell of a strange creature that wandered the area after the crash.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    "Easter Egg". It's not a difinitive part of the game. Worlds of Ultima had spaceships too. But that was a spin off. It was also not linked in anyway to Ultima Online which is the context we're also including.

    Gee I thought you'd have spoken about the spaceships in Ultima 1 and 2 which magically vanished in Ultima 3. There is a reason for that dissapearance. Something I already clarified when Garriott chose a new creative direction.
     
  31. Pink Dragoness

    Pink Dragoness Journeyman
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    The team that created the Cu Sidhe put in place for that pet to rez its master.
    You wonder why that never happened?

    I think its fine the way it is now.