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what is the logic behind this?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Wizal the Fox, May 8, 2011.

  1. Wizal the Fox

    Stratics Veteran

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    What benefit is there to be a vet?
    - None of the stuff over 3 or 4 years old has any use because better have been introduced, or the few pieces who still do constantly drop in value because they still spawn
    - All the stuff you crafted is junk: no except Bonus from Arms Lore, no possibility to imbue stuff made of old material, and any Kelps or Valkyrie armor you fish is twice better anyway.
    - All the skills you spent a hard time working on have been regularly getting easier and easier to train (First GGS, then removal of anti-macro code, then scrolls of Alacrity, then scrolls of Transcendance) or not needed (first items with skill bonuses, then the same but extremely easily imbuable)
    - The most useful vet rewards are the 1st year ones (Soulstones, Crystal teleporters, Commodity Box) and any old reward you may have chosen some years ago is worthless (Dye tubes, Vet cloths)

    On the other hand, miss a couple (or all) of the more recent events and you get:
    - No possibility to get any good equipment for the back slot (No Cloak Of Augmentation, no Cloak Of Rejuvenation) and you are severely limited for the robe slot (No Cloak of Power/Life/Death, No Conjurer's Garb)
    - No possibility to build a high end Luck suit (No Leurocian Mempo, no Bleue jewelry, no Conjurer's Garb)
    - A recipe to feed a major pet impossible to get because you can't raise loyalty toward Ophidians anymore => This one is actually the worst because you can't even buy that from other players (the loyalty, not the recipe, but in practice you can't buy the recipe either)

    It's really weird because there really is some kind of magic line in time around mid-2008 where everything you have done before is pointless, but if you missed some or all of the events since then you're screwed.

    And curiously I can't think of any counterexample.

    I really love the game but what is the logic behind this?
     
  2. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    i agree.. i killed 1000s of orcs and stuff and never got a mempo.
    i did the quest at least 200 times and never got a lucky garb. i was never able to free the prisoners. they were either already done or camped by stealthers.

    i did get 1 of the mr3 sdi 30 lrc 10 spell books, but i wish i had a couple more.
    and i never was able to get the maxed out dci 10 sdi 30 fcr 2 lmc 5 spell books.

    i wish those invasions were permanent it would give me a reason to capture faction towns.
     
  3. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Looks like it's time to add more replicas for the items listed in the posts above eh?
     
  4. Vlaude

    Vlaude Lore Keeper
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    I felt the same way coming back. A lot of nifty items I missed out on because I was away from the game for a few years, many of which are essential pieces to suits. I felt like I was penalized for taking a few years away from UO to go travel and see the world and get an education. I've now bought most of the stuff I wanted (which I might have gotten free had I been active during the events). But replicas would be nice, or reintroducing some of them through similar events such as the upcoming spring cleaning (which would really only bandage the problem for current returning vets).
     
  5. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    1) I am a 13 year vet & my house teleporter & rideable Boura are extremely valuable. Whats your point? You want your vet items to retain original value forever just because you have logged into the game longer then someone else? Lol

    2) Since the start of Uo skillgain has been changing. How about you value the experiences you get in the world while using your skill and not the skill itself?
    Years & years ago I cast blade spirits on the roof of the temple on Marble Isle to gain resist. So what? Was that particularly hard? No.
    Parking a warrior at the BK wall years ago gained mad skills with 0 effort. You need more examples of vets easily gaining skills since day 1 of Uo?

    3) The reward items you took years ago had great value for a period of time. You held onto them as their value was dropping and now you are upset? Huh?

    4) You say you are screwed because you missed a couple recent events & now dont have a Rangers Cloak? Thats laughable. What vet doesnt have enough gold to buy 5 Cloaks? How are you limited? Or are you one of those serious old vets that is always poor? Making gold is beneath you? Thats cool, but maybe you shouldnt be wanting high end items so bad then? Or should they just drop in your pack because you are a vet?

    5) You are a vet & you say you have "no possibility to build a high end Luck suit" I dont even know where to start on this one.

    No offense but what exactly have you been doing all these years?

    You have obviously not been too concerned with making any amount of gold. Thats cool but as you seem to want high end items maybe you should also want to make the gold to buy those items?

    You want to know what benefit there is to being a vet?
    Exactly what benefit were you promised when you joined on?

    How about the benefit of being able to help younger players instead of pancakes about younger players getting event items because they were there & you werent?
     
  6. lankdogg03

    lankdogg03 Journeyman
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    I'm going to have to agree with alot of what Goldberg said on this one. Personally Ive missed some pretty cool events because I was taking breaks from the game at different times. Yeah it was sucked that I missed the items for free but Ive had some things given to me by friends and others Ive bought. If you missed the events trust me their are almost always people who got extras willing to trade or sell. If you dont have the gold to buy it then go get some. Getting gold in UO is really easy.
     
  7. Wizal the Fox

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    You know, I DO have a Mempo, I DO have a Garb, I DO have all those stuff, where the hell did I say anything about myself? You completely missed the point of my post:

    I'm not complaining about MY particular case, as I'm not as egocentric as many here, I'm just wondering why there seems to be a particular line drawn in time somewhere in 2008 where ANYTHING you have done before has ZERO value, while most of those event items since then that I listed are impossible to replace by yourself by anything even vaguely close.

    But perhaps you do have some counterexamples?

    If you don't believe me when I say there is a line in time, please find me someone willing to trade any of those 2008-2009-2010 event items against previous event items from, say, Magincia Invasion 2007? Want a Vorpal Blade for your Conjurer's Trinket? Or a Berserker's Scythe for your Ranger's Cloak perhaps? Since I'm nice I can even give 2 for 1, or 3 for 1 anyone?

    Hey I have an even better idea, I'll give you a Deed For A Stone Ankh, imagine that, something that you normally need to wait 5 years to acquire, for a Crystal Teleporter, something that you can get after only 1, now that sounds like a good deal isn't it?
     
  8. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Uhh, 3 years from now you may(most likely)be getting new event items that make the Ranger's Cloak seem not so valuable. That's basically how a market/economy works. It's not hard to understand and most people that are involved in the buying & selling of items in any market don't whine about it.

    "What benefit is there to be a vet?" I believe this was the opening line in your OP?
    Yet you say you were not complaining?

    Counterexamples? You were given one when it was pointed out that as a vet I received 2 very valuable items(house teleporter & rideable Boura)

    Maybe I am wrong but it seems that your real issue is with the fact that event items are not obtainable if you take a break from the game & are not at the actual event(no surprise there)and that they magically do not retain their original peak value.

    Or based upon your odd timeline do you believe that the Dev's conspired to screw only the people that were at events from 2008-2010? For what reason?
     
  9. Who needs that stuff. Just give me reason to walk east and find adventure. The game is so items based and reward based and pixel based, I was a full blown crazed addict.

    I didn't see my habit. Now that I am coming out of the haze. I'm shaking my head.
     
  10. Wizal the Fox

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    Yes, I may (or not), but it doesn't change the fact that there has obviously been a change in policy since 2008: Before that none of the available-for-a-limited-time-items were noticeably better than permanent ones. For instance I can't think of anything from any Halloween, Thanksgiving or any event such as Ophidian or Magincia invasion, that were better or even very different than the Doom artifacts spawning at the same time (and I'm not even talking about the first Cleanup Britannia where the top price was Phoenix Armor parts which had no properties at all). Even the stuff bought from OSI (such as pre-orders) gave you stuff like Charger Of The Fallen or Hooded Shroud Of The Shadows that were purely deco, and the exclusive 8th anniv stuff were given again for the 9th anniv, and then in bulk to everyone in Heritage tokens.

    While since 2008 it's just full of that: irreplaceable stuff on clothing slots, spellbooks, talismans or luck items with modifiers way higher than any regular ones, etc...

    So again, they may be outdated in a few years, but it doesn't change the fact that until then they are not replaceable by anything that can compare.

    People who are buying & selling in any market are short term traders, they are never affected by long term changes as they never hold anything for long.

    It is very different for end users.

    You are comparing apples and oranges: those have zero impact in either combat or resource gathering, so in balance in general. Though I must admit that I picked the house teleporters... only to sell them and buy the event artifacts I missed.

    No, I don't believe in a conspiracy, but I notice an obvious change of policy since 2008, and that's the whole point I wanted to discuss.

    I'm actually not against such changes, as I always found boring the way they didn't wanted to upset new players by never giving away anything of value to vets, but then it would be fair to actually give some benefits not only to those who played between 2008 and 2010 but also those who played before. Granted their stuff is now permanently worthless, but why then not also put irreplaceable equipment stuff as vet rewards? I can't wait to see that robe with MR3, 300 Luck and 20 DCI as 14th year vet reward and see everyone whining 10 times more than I do here, even if the said robe is wearable by everyone... but then I will answer them as you do: just buy it and shut up!
     
  11. lankdogg03

    lankdogg03 Journeyman
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    In events in the future new stuff will be released that will replace some of the must have items of right now. As for your theoretical vet cloak, the devs have shown that they are going toward more convenience items rather than game unbalancing items. Its the just the nature of UO items are replaced every so often by better items.
     
  12. yanaki2

    yanaki2 Sage
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    i know this is frustrating. we do have several reasons for this,

    as you introduce the newer challenges and monsters the older gear becomes outdated and they have to produce newer stuff that will replace it. the problem is with uo's game system the escalation has grown disproportionate to the charicters ability to grow. it also doesnt help that they introduced things to help with the longevity of the players longevity.. such as item insurace, powders of fortification, repair scrolls and such. many years ago before the item statistics were there the best known armor was exceptionaly crafted gm plate mail. when it was damaged you needed to find a blacksmith to repair it and it was a crap shoot... sometimes the smith broke it..then you had to buy another one.yes people didnt like losing there extreamly accurate silver katana of vanquishing because it broke but hey, another one would spawn if your lucky :) . todays players are kinda spoiled in that regard.

    you want crafted/older items to be worth something again?

    heres my suggestions :

    1. limit the items that can be insured to artifact/named items only.
    2. limit what can fortified with powders of fort.
    3. give items a chance to break on players again.
    4. start adding requirements to higher end items. say a clainins spellbook needs to have 100 magery to equip it.(it works well in wow)
    5. make the ingredients needed to make the higher end craftables more readily available but in turn make the items more difficult to create(higher chance of failure)
    6. reduce the items on monsters to 10% of what it is now.
    7. stop making any spellcasting monster a friggin gm(or higher) mage/necro/mystic.. its downright insulting to have to spend hours and hours of time to get your charicters skills up and then get flamestruck by a friggin imp, or 50hp goblin mage...
    8. stop making monsters that will kill you in 1-2 hits in a max 70's suit that would take you friggin 8 hours to kill with spells... just to get 200 gold and 5 items you just let rot on a corpse because there junk.
    9. remove or deminish lower regent cost items from the game...or make them fall apart faster.


    i could go on and on
     
  13. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    I agree that most vet items are useless now, but the thing is, it isn't fair to the youngin's to make some awesome 13yr reward that is something they cannot obtain. I remember how discouraged i was when people started riding ethys and i couldn't.... that is sort of what would happen if there was some awesome unobtainable items only vets could have.
     
  14. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Your missing the point of Rewards.

    The player who started the account was due the rewards offered... with years invested the small tolkens from UO were nice. Yes the new character who came in game on a new account was fustrated cause he couldnt have an ethy... this prompted many to buy older accounts that some were ready to leave the game and sold. This made other problems, aside from the account not being owned by the creator who had done all the work. Young didnt know how to run the fine characters they bought.
    Rewards are worth the getting, the tree stump gives logs of the known tree types... and i can atest that it will be the only way anyone not farming their tush off will get a frost log!
    The same can be said of the Ore cart. The selection of gem or ore is a no brainer the ore is much better as the gems are now gotten off mining in bigger numbers. Had it been the big gems now that might have been worth the gem cart being used. Home teleporter are great, something I have wanted a long time, you can get bloody tired of running up and down a tower stair case! hehe.
     
  15. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Simple you said it there. Imbuing made everything obsolete in from before sept 2009. During the year before that everything was made easier making less value on everything earn. After that these limited events were made to keep players interest up as once imbuing and the easiness combined all vet players finished there decade long goals, or at least almost finish them and know that any other goals were a breeze to finish so the challenged left for the non-pvp vet crowd which dominated after AOS. Reason why many long time vet players left last year. Thats the closest I can come to answer your question.
     
  16. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    When compared to *cough cough* a more modern mmorpg which i shall not name, UO has the very comforting quality of gear Not going out of date every few months. My non-updated characters, gear and templates from 4plus years ago are still viable for pvm at least. I consider UO a very "stable" game gear-wise. Replacing gear every few years just doesnt seem like a very big deal, i dont know why people complain about it. Everything in life, including a video game, has to change, or it would just be very very boring.

    Limited - time items, well, if your playing then, you can usually get them if you know what your doing. Like the conjurer's garbs. Some got frustrated because they did the quest many times and never got one, while if you did little research you would figure out how to get one. Same thing with the trinkets. The masses attacked in groups of 20 or more, relying on the rng. While others, like myself, soloed the skeletal liches in fel where there was little competition. I dont know how many i got, must have been at least 30.

    The point is, you can get limited time items. Getting upset for not playing while they are spawning is like getting upset that you didnt get an EM item for an event you didnt attend.

    All in all im very happy with the system and direction UO has taken. Ill use my next vet reward for a ridable mongbat, or glacial robe, or whatever they come up with. Or yes, maybe choose one of the earlier ones, probably another hanging skeleton because they are impossible to find for sale.
     
  17. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    I will sell you my rideable mongbat today for 200 million. But dont be mad at me 17 years from now when its only worth 163 million :)
     
  18. Wizal the Fox

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    Thanks for your post, so far that has been the smartest answer I've read. Although while what you said makes a lot of sense it could be said of any major change in the game that happened before and doesn't address the specific issue about a global change in policy of making limited availability items way more powerful than permanent ones.

    I specifically said items that ANYONE CAN USE but that only vets can directly obtain! In which way would that be different than items that have been available only, say, in 2008, 2009, or 2010?
     
  19. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    A bow has a chance of taking a durability hit every time it is used. You know, this is a damn interesting idea.