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What is the proper way to set up a Ship security ?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Jul 11, 2011.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    This is the scenario :

    Account 1 Character A owns High Seas Ship "White".

    Account 2 Character B owns High Seas Ship "Black".

    This, because of an inexplicable and extremely annoying rule preventing the ownership of more than 1 ship per character. and since holds are still of limited capacity and only capable of holding 125 items...

    Now, let's assume that character B from account 2 is wanted to have full access to Ship "White" of Account 1 WITHOUT letting anyone else but character B from account 2 to have access to Ship "White". Of course, obviously, besides the rightfull owner of the Ship "WHite" that is character A from Account 1.

    What would be the proper security setting that Character A from Account 1 should set the ship "White" for ??

    Examples :

    1) - Setting all 3 options (Public, Party and Guild) on DENY ACCESS does NOT allow access to character B from account 2 EVEN if said character is granted access by right clicking on that character and granting access via the Menu.

    2) - Setting Party and Guild to DENY ACCESS and Public to OFFICER and giving to character B from account 2 Officer status from the owner of the ship "White", apparently allows character B from account 2 to have access as wanted to the Ship "White" but this breaks the security of the Ship "White" somehow, as even those who have not been given Officer status and granted access from the White Ship owner, will be able to get on board and access the hold.

    3) Setting Public to passenger is not also the option as it would allow everyone to board the ship.

    4) Setting to CREW also is not the proper way as it would allow anyone to manouver the ship.

    So, DENY ACCESS is not good. PASSENGER is not good. CREW is not good. OFFICER is not good. WHAT IS THE DAMN GOOD security setting to achieve the wanted status to make character B from Account 2, and only that character and noone else be able to fully access ship "White" belonging to character A from account 1 ???
     
  2. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    Like I said in the prior thread...

    Use the menu through the tiller-man and set everything to DENY.

    Then get the character(s) that you want to have access on the shore near the boat and click on each character... along with "open paperdoll" and "Add Party", you will have an option for "ship access". Set the access there for each individual.
     
  3. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    Always always keep the access through tiller man on deny
     
  4. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I tried and it DOES NOT WORK. The second character gets this message "You do not have permission to board this ship". Yet, the most absurd is that if I get the character owning that ship check the ACCESS LIST Menu, my second character IS in that Access List but still, on DENY ACCESS set he cannot get on the ship even though he was granted access and IS on the ACCESS List. makes no sense to me but that is what happens.

    Furthermore, when I access the ACCESS LIST Menu with the Ship Owner, and then click on the second character name, I get the following :

    PASSENGER AND CREW MANIFEST

    Ship : "WHITE"
    Owner : Character A from Account 1

    Player : Character B from Account 2

    Effective Level DENY ACCESS

    Public Access YES DENY ACCESS
    Is Party Member NO
    Is Guild Member NO

    Access List Status :
    And my second character IS set as CAPTAIN

    I read it as my second character "should" get access (because of the green YES) but because of the general red DENY ACCESS I get the above message and I end up not being able to use the ship.

    I was trying to answer you in the other thread but it got closed before I could answer you.
     
  5. popps

    popps Always Present
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    If it is on DENY I cannot get a second character to get on board which is what I need !!!

    I tried it, I had ALREADY tried what Tazar says when I placed the ship on water months ago and tried again today after Tazar said it and it does NOT work.

    Setting Public on DENY ACCESS I cannot have a second character of mine exclusively access the damn ship even after I grant access with the ship owner by right clicking on the second character and use the menu to grant access. The second character who has been granted access, directly from the ship owner, if the security is set on DENY ACCESS at Public cannot access the ship. Period.
     
  6. Metalstorm

    Metalstorm Seasoned Veteran
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    Popps, try setting all the security tabs to 'N/A' then try giving the chars access again by right clicking them.

    This has so far worked for me and I'm hoping it will work for you.
     
  7. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    This was explained when ships first went live but, if we really must do it for popps again...

    The boats are badly programmed. Instead of setting characters as exceptions when individually given permission, the security settings classify players by every group they are part of, and if any of those groups they are part of are denied access, then they cannot access the ship at all.

    Which means that unfortunately, Public Access has to always be set to at least "Passenger", otherwise the only person that can access the ship is the owner and every character on that account. Because every single player in game is part of the Public subset, it applies to them all. Thus no one else can board at all when this is on Deny.

    Once it's set to "Passenger", if the character is in the same Guild as the owner, Guild must also be "Passenger" to board, otherwise this second check will disqualify them too.

    If you want to keep the hold secure, but allow everyone to fire cannon, switch all three settings to "Crew".

    If you want to allow only specific people who aren't Guilded access to certain features you can Party them and then change that setting accordingly; you won't be able to toggle them otherwise as Public settings will override Party permission.

    If they are Guilded, unfortunately you can't give them access without toggling it for everyone in the Guild though, and you can't Party them without Guild settings for them being untrustworthy as a group overriding it in turn.
     
  8. BahamaMama

    BahamaMama Seasoned Veteran
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    Wow. This is interesting. I wasn't around at HS launch. I haven't placed my big ships in the water yet, so the info here is helpful to me too.

    Much thanks to those in this thread who have showed patience and are giving detailed instructions. Obviously, popps is not the only one confused by the security setting programming.
     
  9. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Too bad that this lack of clarity cost me my entire stock of fish (besides other things..) built up manually, not scripted, hours every day for week upon week for well over a month..... That's a lot of time of my life went "poof" like that, all for nothing.

    So, if I understood what you are saying, what Tazar

    And Storm

    Suggested that I do with the ship security settings does not work and cannot work ?

    That is, setting DENY ACCESS to the Public setting and then granting individual access to character B from account 2 in NO WAY can ever allow me to have a character and only that character from another account, have exclusive access to my ship??

    I had a feeling that this did not work, contrary to their suggestions, because I tried it several times and for me it did not grant access to character B from account 2...
    The Public setting on DENY ACCESS would always override the individually granted access to character B from account 2 from the ship owner.

    But then, if I understood right what you are saying, I do not understand how is it possible that it worked for Metalstorm.....

    So, we have Tazar, Storm and Metalstorm saying that all 3 settings must be on DENY ACCESS and then character B from Account 2 must be given individual access as granted from the owner of this ship, but you are saying differently and, I tried their suggestion and for me it did not work even though I tried several times while Metalstorm says it worked for him.

    So, now, which is which ???

    We are playing the same exact game using the same exact code so things either work for everyone or for noone I would imagine.....

    All I know is that my work of countless hours for well over a month of fishing, besides other stuff I also had is gone thanking to ackward fogginess of the security settings and of a player who has no respect for others' work and time.


    So are you perhaps suggesting that the best I can do, in my particular scenario case, is to have my ship Public setting set on PASSENGER and then give CAPTAIN status to the character B of Account 2 which I want to fully use the ship together with the ship owner ?

    And this would still allow everyone playing the game onboard of my ship free to perhaps try some hack and get access to my Hold even though they "supposedly" should not be able to ?

    If so, pardon me, but I find this ridicolous.

    I want noone to access that ship but the owner of the ship and character B from Account 2, period.

    You are perhaps telling me that it is not possible with the current security settings and way the whole thing is coded to get this thing done ? Seriously ?
     
  10. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD TO DO BY 3 AND NOW 4 PEOPLE IS WHAT YOU SHOULD DO?

    THEY WERE ALL CORRECT.

    IF IT IS NOT WORKING FOR YOU TRY DRYDOCKING YOUR BOAT, AS THAT WAS ONE OF THE FIXES FOR THE LOST SHIP BUG, PERHAPS THAT WILL ALLOW IT TO WORK FOR YOU?

    AND YES ALL CAPS WAS INTENDED.
     
  11. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Perhaps this will help:
    Shipborne Travel and Adventure
    The security settings in the gumps shown are those given as appropriate at HS launch. I haven't looked for the actual developer's post, but I can do so if required.

    With the settings as shown on that page, I have just double checked
    Char A on account 1 owns the boat
    Char B on account 2 is on the access list as 'officer' and can board the boat
    Char c on account 2 is not on the access list and cannot board the boat.
     
  12. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    This works for me just fine. I double checked it yesterday (with several players and characters) after I saw Popps other post.

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  13. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Dear Petra,

    That is what I did, set on OFFICER and named my char B on account 2 as CAPTAIN and since Char C on account 2, not on the access list could not board the ship as you mention, I FELT as safe...... I tested it before feeling as safe and it worked as you describe it in your post which made me "think" I was safe.

    Apparently, from what other posters say this setting is NOT safe.

    Now, I still have not understood how anyone else could board my ship and loot my hold with that setting "IF" my char C on account 2, NOT in the access list, could not board the ship, and that is why I thought of an hack.

    I mean, MY other char C not being on the access list CANNOT board but other players ALSO not on my access list can, and this is not a hack ??

    If this is not confusing I do not know what it is........
     
  14. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Re: WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD TO DO BY 3 AND NOW 4 PEOPLE IS WHAT YOU SHOULD DO?



    you may want to read ADOL's post http://vboards.stratics.com/1985366-post7.html

    He says quite different things.....

    The way security works on the High Seas Ships is far from being clear and settled if various players have quite different opinions on it and on the way it really works.

    Besides, I tried it, also AFTER dry docking it and on DENY ACCESS it still overrides my granting access to Character B from account 2..........

    I had to dry dock it for the rune bug but nonetheless I did dry dock it and re-set the security after placing and with Public set on DENY ACCESS I can grant as much access I want the Char B from account 2 is left out of the ship as Adol and Petra say........
     
  15. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Could someone please explain to me that N/A exactly means besides "Not Available" ??

    I mean Stratics explains it as

    But I just do not understand what it really means.

    It says "does not GRANT" NOR "DENY" which to means noone would be denied, on that setting, access to my ship. That is, everyone is welcome on Board ???

    On N/A the general public can board the ship or not ? Is this the lowest level of security i.e. NO SECURITY at all ??

    If so, that is not the security I want or need for my ship..........
     
  16. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    N/A in this case means Not Applicable. The N/A setting is used when you do not want to set a general setting for that group. The group settings are used to grant privleges for large groups, without much clicking (parties, guilds, publis events, etc). If your security is set to N/A on public, it does not grant access to your boat, unless the player has been given specific, individual access or fits into another group (e.g. party or guild).

    N/A setting is perfectly safe. I will be happy to meet with you in game (TC or your shard) to demonstrate/test with you.

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  17. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    Re: WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD TO DO BY 3 AND NOW 4 PEOPLE IS WHAT YOU SHOULD DO?

    The reason you are having difficulties is that you are using the "DENY" setting. According to Shipborne Travel and Adventure, the "DENY" setting trumps all priveleges for specific, individual settings for the characters in that group:
    •DENY ACCESS: revokes all privileges aboard the ship, overriding all other permissions

    Even though you have granted access to the second character, since he falls within the Public Group (which is set to DENY), he will be denied permission to the boat. The DENY setting has final authority for access rights. If you set it to N/A, then you can control access to individuals without issue.

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  18. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Exactly what settings did you have for each section when someone got aboard the boat?
    nm, I found it. You had
    Public was set to OFFICER - so public access had 'officer' permissions
    But Party and Guild were DENied ACCESS, which overrules the public access, so they could not board
    Therefore anyone not in either your party or your guild could come aboard and perform any function under the officer permission.

    You need to set public access to 'N/A' They are therefore not specifically denied - but they're not granted either, so they can not board. You then grant access to the specific character with the specific level of access that you require.
     
  19. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    The problem you are having Popps is that your other characters are on a second account; from the point of view of the Tillerman, they are not related to the ships owners unless flagged either as Party or Guild. They're just another Joe Public to him.

    N/A works as the others have described, but you are trying to use Deny options to limit the low end of access instead. In which case your second account is being kept off the ship because they are part of the "Public" (or another "Deny" group, as Petra has pointed out), and if that is on Deny they can never board.

    Characters on your first account are automatically "Owner" however and are immune to all the settings.
     
  20. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Alright and thanks for the clarifications.


    Let me see if I got it right.....

    So, the proper way would be to set Public on N/A (Not applicable).

    By chosing this setting, noone other than the characters owning the account that owns the ship, can have any access to my ship whatsoever. For them, my ship is "as if" it was on DENY ACCESS.

    Is this correct ? Did I get this right ?

    At this point, I am given the ability with the ship owner, to individually "grant access" to that ship to whichever character I may desire and only that one specific character will be allowed access to that ship. Noone else not having been granted individual access to that ship will ever be able to access that ship.

    Is that correct ?

    Bottom line is, while DENY ACCESS does not allow individual access as grantable, N/A does allow to pin point which character I want to get onboard and leave everyone else out.

    Is that how it works ?
     
  21. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    If I read your previous post correctly, you seem to understand it now.

    Here is how I have my ship set:
    Public = N/A
    Party = N/A
    Guild = N/A

    Two others have been given access. Only those two characters and my account (who owns the boat) can use the boat. I have tested this with others (strangers and friends) and it holds true.

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  22. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Now you've got it - and hopefully so has anyone else reading this thread who has found it confusing.

    Add your character on the second account to the access list.
     
  23. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well thanks. Set on N/A, did some testing with other characters not on the ACCESS LIST and, apparently, they are not allowed access on the ship. The character granted individual access, instead, can access the ship.

    I hope I can feel safe now, and not have "surprises" again.........

    The issue now is building my fish stock up again. Honestly, I just do not feel spending all that time on fishing again. It was countless hours of work for weeks on end, over a month of dedicated work. All manual, no fishing scripts.....

    As of now, I just do not feel putting the effort again. I lack the time for it anyways and, I'd rather stop playing UO but script fishing to build my stock back up.....

    It is rather depressing though, that also in computer games there is people that has so little respect for others, their work, time and belongings........... oh well.........

    I would not mind a UO thief stealing something from my backpack in Felucca, that is part of the game, but entering someone else's premises like a House or a Ship and taking stuff belonging to someone else, well, I see that differently.

    I wonder how much would it cost me to hire someone to build me a stock of fish of 700 for each and all of the Deep Sea fish (which is the stock I had...) and how difficult would it be to find someone willing to.... Would be a total of 18 x 700 = 12,600 Deep Sea fish.
     
  24. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Might I suggest that you do as I do? I keep my fish stocks in a fishing shack and just take them to the boat as I need them in a pack animal.
     
  25. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    This is what I do that way i never need worry about losses, like forgeting to refresh etc
     
  26. Metalstorm

    Metalstorm Seasoned Veteran
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    Considering this computer game consists of real people through out the world it should not be surprising that there are those who will take advantage of a situation despite it being wrong and/or immoral.

    Don't give up. Be the stronger one and endure. Prevail. Build your stocks back up and start having fun again.

    Now that you've learned about boat security (a harsh and mean lesson but a lesson none the less) you know how to avoid a repeat scenario.

    Don't let the world crush you down. Rise up from the ashes and rebuild.
     
  27. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    i think ships security is kinda broken.. dont give popps a bad time.. i couldnt get it to work either..

    here is what i wanted.. i sail in fel.. i dont want anyone to just sail up and get on my ship, so i set public to denied..
    then one day i want a friend to join me in my adventures.. guess what, he cant get on. :(

    i gave him a specific title, i think it was captain, but still nothing, not allowed access..

    so i had to set public to passenger to get him on board. this also means my ship is no longer private.. someone can just sail up to me board my ship and kill us all, or atleast try to lol.

    this really needs fixed asap..

    it should be like houses, private or public..
    if set to private there should be a special allowed list where you can let certain people have specific access.. the way it is now is too confusing..
     
  28. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I don't think it's broken at all, just a bit confusing at first. Take a read carefully in this thread and it will make a bit of sense.
     
  29. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    It's backwards. Individual access permission should supersede generic access permissions, not the other way around. The devs definitely have it backwards.
     
  30. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I am of the same opinion.

    If the owner of a ship says he/she wants someone on that ship well, then even with DENY ACCESS set that particular character should be allowed on board.

    This is what would make sense to me.

    Instead, as we know, the DENY ACCESS overrides any individual granted access which is the backwards you mentioned about.
     
  31. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Thanks for the supporting words, appreciated.

    Problem is, that at this time I simply lack the time.

    I had it before and that is why I spent it on building up a large stock so that when I did not have the time for that intensive fishing (not scripting I have to actually spend my real time to do it and not let a machine do it for me....), I would have had a large stock to still enjoy doing the fish monger quests nonetheless.

    Unfortunately, thanking to someone not respectfull of others, all that is gone and I currently lack the time to build it back up and will need to put fishing quests on a side untill better times........ It is unfortunate, but usually that is what happens, at least to my experience so far, when one bumps into others not respectfull of their fellow human beings.

    That is why I thought about hiring someone with more time at hand to do the fishing for me to build my stock back up. I even tried to find who looted me to buy my stock back but with no luck so far....

    The pity is that I was enjoying the fishing quests, I am still trying to get my 120 fishing scroll so I needed those fish to keep going but oh well, I will need to postpone that goal indefinitively now, until better times.

    But thanks again for the heads up.