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What mods for a 50ssi composite bow ?

Discussion in 'UO Warrior' started by DJAd, May 2, 2014.

  1. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Looking to make a couple of 50ssi composite bows for my soon to be PvP archer. I've been trying to workout what mods are best here?

    One imbue slot will be taken up with 40ssi then enhanced to 50. I was thinking about balanced so I can chug pots, then I was thinking 50% hit fireball or lightning. The next one I was thinking either velocity or HLD but I'm a bit unsure of what's best to go for.

    On my suit I have 50 DI so how much (if any) would I need on the bow?

    What do you guys use and what would you recommend?
     
  2. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    hld can come from mace and shield.. if ya wanted
     
  3. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Yeah I like the glasses but with this suit I'm using six crafted parts.
     
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  4. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    Won't need no dmi .. you will hit AI caps
     
  5. popps

    popps Always Present
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    DMI you mean DI, damage increase ?
     
  6. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I am not sure I understand how Hit Lower Defense is handled....

    According to UOGuide, HLD when succesfully rolled (hence the higher the attacked has it the better the chances to roll it per hit...), reduced the target's defense chance for 8 seconds of 25%.


    Publish 81, though, changed this as, prior to it, the reduction was 25 percentage points without differing between players and monsters. So, in PvP many players would overcap their DCI (Defense Chance Increase) to basically nullify the effects of the attacker's HLD.

    So, now, after Publish 81 the reduction has been set the same for PvM (25%) while in PvP the reduction has been increased to 35% of the target's maximum DCI. Furthermore, overcapped DCI is now flat out ignored and thus a waste of modifiers' room....

    If I understood it right, if for example a player uses the armor refinements to max out DCI to 70%, the HLD modifier will just see that 70% as if it was 45%....

    What I do not understand, is how a player can basically defend against someone who has high HLD....
    Because after Publish 81 the hit in PvP is now 35%, NOT 25%, and thus when rolled succesfully, it brings down the Defence Chance Increase for the defending player to a mere 10% which basically means getting hit 9 our of 10 times.....

    Also, Mace and Shield has only 30% HLD while apparently HLD has no CAP but, when this property is split in between 2 items (glasses and weapon), it checks them separatedly, they are not computed cumulatively, but separatedly.

    So, if one has room to have HLD 70% on the weapon then the HLD 30% on mace and shield becomes not much usefull .....

    Bottom line is, considering the Publish 81 changes for PvP, my understanding is that it would be better to to have HLD 70% on the weapon rather then on both or just 30% on mace and shield ?
    Am I right or did I understand it wrong ?

    In PvM, though, would having HLD 100% (70% from weapon + 30% from glasses) be of a considerable and real help ? Consider that to have HLD 70% on the weapon this means having to compromise with reduced HLL (Hit Life Leech) and HML (Hit Mana Leech) or perhaps even not having either of these ......
     
  7. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    I would do both Vel and Lighting. Fireball is handy for the delay in damage and hit lighting can have a rubber band effect at times but the lighting does more damage if the proc gets triggered. Balance is a must IMO, you want to be chugged(buffed) at all times and being able to cure/heal/refresh is worth it's weight in gold.

    Are you working in a team or is this a solo gank annoying stealth archer? If you are in a team see if other people are rolling their suits with the glasses and if so HLD is not worth the time, I would use HLA.

    Popps-from my understanding HLD is really only good on one item. For the glasses it's a 30% chance for the event to trigger and higher if you used a higher level. Thus if you are PvM and swinging often you can run on the belief that your target is under the effect of the HLD. For PvP it's a triggered event but not worth adding to a weapon if you are using the glasses. The former Dev team guy who posts here as a player commented the same theory a few years back, you can search for his discussion.
     
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  8. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Let me see if I understood your advice right....

    For a lone PvPers then Mace and Shield is enough for the HLD. For a PvPer in a group where others already use HLD then it is not worth to use Mace and Shield and better to use something else for that slot with HLA.

    For PvM, not worth to have HLD from Mace and Shield AND also HLD from Weapon but what I did not understand is whether you advice for the 30% HLD from Mace and Shield or the 70% HLD that can be on a weapon....

    I mean, if HLD is an important property to have in PvM, and if it is not advisable to have it split in 2 items, then is it better to have it at 30% on Mace and Shield or at 70% on the Weapon ?

    Of course, 70% is better then 30% but having it on the weapon means having to sacrifice other properties which also go on the weapon so, the bottom line issue I think is, considering the importance of HLD in PvM fights is 30% from Mace and Shield enough to get substantial benefit from it ?
     
  9. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    From my understanding it's a 30% chance to have HLD get triggered. Now we all know that the UO RNG is odd and the HLD could never goes off but, IMO, it's not worth the space on a weapon. The glasses offer some nice mods that can enhance a suit and the HLD is an extra bonus.

    I am under the impression that when HLD is triggered the result is a fixed reduction in the defence chance(as you refrenced above) of the target and therefor once the special is done there is no difference between having 30% on the glasses and 70% on a weapon. And in a PVM situation where you are swinging often and reseting the HLD over and over I fail to see the benifit of adding HLD to a weapon IF the glasses work well for your suit, I would add HLA if I had the room.
     
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  10. popps

    popps Always Present
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    But I thought that Hit Lower Defense was fundamental when fighting tough Bosses....

    Since the concept behind several PvM templates is they leech back health through hitting their target, if the target is a tough one, chances are that some hits do not land..... and when they do not land onto the target there is no health leeched back.

    Hence, HLD takes an important role in lowering the defense of the target some thus allowing for hits to land and thus health to be leeched back.

    Now, if the above is true, then one would think that having a good chance that HLD is rolled during fights is important not merely a "bonus" ....

    Or did I understand it as wrong and HLD is not so much important ?
     
  11. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    The effect of HLD lasts for 8 seconds if I recall which gives you time to leech. IMO it is a important factor but I would use the glasses over adding it on a weapon. If you are running a fairly nice suit and well thought out SSI effects on your weapon I would think you are swing in the range of 1.25-1.75 which is enough that you should be enough hits to have the HLD near constant on the target.
     
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  12. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    So I went for the following mods:

    50 Hit lightning
    30 HLD
    50 SSI
    18 DI
    Balanced
     
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  13. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    I thought HLD duration was halved on ranged weapons. Maybe I am confusing that with HML and HLL.
     
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  14. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    Dj i gotta have ya make me two bows! same without the hld .. or just some but max di. heavy xbow and composite.. for my ninja.

    im using lenses for hld

    of course ill pay for em :)
     
  15. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    That certainly could be the case, I'm only going from memory. It would seem reasonable given the other issues ranged weapons have(mana leech etc)
     
  16. popps

    popps Always Present
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    What "issues" ranged weapons have with some item properties ?

    Are these "issues" listed somewhere ? I checked the Stratics' and UOguide pages for items properties but they just list the properties generically, not mentioning whether there is any particular "issue" ith the listed properties for armor, weapons ranged or not ranged and what not.

    Thanks !
     
  17. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Leeches on bows don't work as well has on swords etc
     
  18. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    Ranged weapons HML and HLL properties are halved what they would be on a melee weapon (swords, mace, fencing). Also, remember HML and HLL are both affected by a weapon's base speed and the weapon's SSI. The equation is on UO Guide.

    -OBSIDIAN-
     
  19. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    It was hard to keep track of what was implemented in publish 81 and exactly how it works finally is probably only possible with a dev reviewing the code. I think ranged was a second less duration or 1.5s. Melee was five seconds and ranged was four for the HLD duration. I remember having a post of opposition for that change, but have no idea where the thread is.

    I do know they made the procs not to stack so at least one swing interval will occur before the next proc. I think with the proc not stacking and the duration being less you want to have the proc chance higher than three hit successes out of ten (30 HLD).

    I'm using only using 15 SSI on bows for 60 total so duping my bow is hard, but Im doing composite with 50% HLD and then switch between two composite bows with 50%lightning and 50% HLA. I then alternate in a bow to mortal strike.

    Keep HLD every two swing (50%HLD) instead of missing on seven out of ten. Then alternate in a bow to HLA every three swings.

    So something like this

    Composite with 50% HLA/HLD and AI. Two swings.
    Switch to bow to do mortal strike. Mine has 6 MR, max ML and I am in wraith. Two swings.
    Then switch to 50%hld/Lightning for about two swings. Chain AI
    Then go back to bow with hld/hla

    Hld in pvp cannot take DCI below zero. If your opponent has zero DCI then HLD is useless.

    -Lorax
     
    #19 Lorax_Pacific, May 13, 2014
    Last edited: May 14, 2014
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  20. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Leeches do not work on all SWORDS ??? And what does that "etc" mean ? On what else what properties do not work ??

    Now, I could possibly think that not working for bows "might" be intended, but on any and all swords ?

    I cannot imagine how many imbuers or warriors might have imbued Leeches on their swords and are using them "assuming" that they are working when they are not ?

    So, sampires or samurai paladins should ONLY use axes then for leeching properties ?

    It is amazing that this is not stated in bolded capital letters all over (lleches not working on all ranged and swords....)....
     
  21. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Hold it.

    The formula http://www.uoguide.com/Hit_Life_Leech says that for ranged weapons, archery and throwing, the value is halved.

    It also says, that SSI (Swing Speed Increase) has to be computed for that value. Now, my understanding is that it talks about character's total SSI, NOT merely whatever SSI may be on the weapon as your words might make me understand.... so which is which ?

    Also, I see no mention whatsoever on that page that the Leech does not work for any and all swords weapons.

    Also, DJAd said that leeches do not work on ranged weapons, period. Not working is rather different than being halved....... Do they work albeit halved or do they NOT work, period ?

    Where would one get knowledged about this important limitation ??
    Thanks.

    P.S. Therefore, for ranged warriors it ain't important to have Leeches on a weapon (as their outcome is halved) ? Yet, I keep reading of ranged templates suits with extremely high stamina (210) and uber high SSI to swing the fastest to leech back the most..... So what gives ?

    Is it important or not for ranged fighting templates to have leeching properties on weapons ??
     
  22. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    No. I said the leeches on bows don't work as well as on melee weapons.

    The leeches DO work on ranged weapons. You will just see better results from a melee weapon.
     
    #22 DJAd, May 14, 2014
    Last edited: May 14, 2014
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  23. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Duration ?
    From the UOGuide http://www.uoguide.com/Hit_Lower_Defense I see no mentioning of any difference between melee and ranged weapons in the way HLD is managed....
     
  24. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Oh I see, what about swords ? What is the problem with leeches on swords ?
     
  25. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    No problem here mate. I run HML, HSL and HLL on my sampire and its awesome!
     
  26. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    max possible values (caps) are 2x less for ranged weapon for HLL/HML
    "etc" means other melee weapons
    "weapon's SSI" means SSI on the weapon (character's SSI doesn't affect HLL/HML values)
     
  27. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    Yes I know that uoguide is not up to date from a change last April...makes no difference.

    Log in two characters and shoot an arrow at the other and watch the proc notice, while using a bow with 50%HLD. Its about four seconds. Repeat the experiment for melee and you will get the timer values the developers coded.

    -Lorax
     
  28. Bleak

    Bleak UO Software Engineer
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    BeaIank, DJAd, Obsidian and 2 others like this.
  29. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Thanks, apparently the UOGuide Hit Lower Defense page was not updated with Publish 69 info yet available on UOGuide.
     
  30. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    Thanks for the clarification, Bleak! And thank you for perusing the Warrior Forum.
     
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  31. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    Thanks. Hard for me to keep track of all of the publish changes in my mind after all these years. This is why I went to 50% on my bows because the duration is about two swing intervals if my stamina drops to 120 range.

    I dont know how everyone gets the important properties on the bows and performance out of the properties with SSI at 50.

    -Lorax
     
  32. Great DC

    Great DC Journeyman
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    I would have maxed hld with only 1 di on the bow dj. Trust me youll do more then enough damage. the base dmg on all bows are pretty high thus coupled with your str and suit di youll deal max damage. I think it works out to 50 ssi, 42hld, 50hitspell, balanced, 1di. With alot of people running parry/anat pure mages now hld is a must, glasses arent enough, i found that out on one of my throwers. RUnning both glasses and wep hld allows two rolls for hld every swing. Also get a jewel with 10 ssi to max it at 60, and run 180 stamina. If have have ninja on the template your virtually unkillable, unless of course you get ganked by like 6 or more.
     
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  33. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Why would ninja skill make the template virtually unkillable ?
     
  34. Great DC

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    I talking strictly pvp here. Ninja will allow you to get into animal form to escape dismount ganks. No need for ninja for pvm archer.
     
  35. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Yep. Also smoke bombs, mirror image along with animal form and your be able to get out if sticky situations a lot easier.