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What things do you think could help Siege?

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Speedy Orkit, Mar 5, 2010.

?

What changes need to come to Siege to ensure retention, or encourage recruitment ?

Poll closed Mar 12, 2010.
  1. Increase the drop rate of SoT's and Replica's

    29.1%
  2. Reintroduce Alacrity Scrolls to Siege annually for a period of time.

    38.2%
  3. Remove faction gear.

    40.0%
  4. Introduce a system to get cursed artifacts/tokuno arti's permanently.

    40.0%
  5. Remove RoT or tweak it in a large way.

    49.1%
  6. Add Passive Detect.

    43.6%
  7. Lower the silver cost for faction artifacts.

    29.1%
  8. Reintroduce blackrock.

    52.7%
  9. Introduce insurance to Siege.

    3.6%
  10. Leave Siege alone, everything is 100% fine.

    5.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    This is not meant to be a debate. I simply want to see a few things:

    What Siege thinks can help us.

    And who thinks Siege is fine.

    I really want to see this thread stay clean, and without an abundance of chest pounding.
     
  2. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    Add passive detect?

    And still have smoke bombs and faction runes?
     
  3. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    I actually want faction runes gone. That is not a huge issue I don't believe though, something that will more so need to be ironed out through complaining. I'm 99% sure everyone on SP hates them.
     
  4. Timothy_SP

    Timothy_SP Guest

    Passive Detect would make me sad. Unless of course Snooping was factored in, making it harder to to detect people, like me, of the thieving persuasion. I understand the PvP reasons, but let's not nerf an entire class because of it.

    k, thnx?
     
  5. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    Well what i see happening is bigger guilds will all zerg smaller guilds and if your not running with a group of people or running ninjitsu you will be dismount ganked...
     
  6. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    The idea of adding passive detect hidden I hope never makes it to Siege. Not everyone plays a decked out pvp`r lookin for a fight. Taking away the only abilty some of us have to get around safely (for shopping being one example) would just turn more people into sheep.

    I definately understand the idea from a pvp`r side,but I think instead of adding a passive skill,they should make detective skills work better with other templates. The counter is already there,just doesn`t fit well into templates so it`s seldom used.

    I want the pvp`rs to get everything they want,just don`t want it at the cost of the sheep that help to feed the wolves. :)
     
  7. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Other way than passive detect could be, to let field spells unhide stealthers again. And remove smoke bombs. You can't use field spells in town as far I know, so that would effect thieves as much as pasive detect.

    If we get passive detect back, I agree, thieves should not be passive detected but I don't think they should be harder to detect, when active using the detect skill.
     
  8. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Sorry I have to disagree

    I think that depent of how close someone have to get to you to passive detect you. Lets say, you just have to stay more than 3 tiles away from others to stay hidded. Stealthers can traveling close to the wall in the dungeon and a little away from the road on overland. This way, they still can get around safe.

    The problem is, alot of sheep will draw more wolves. More wolves will draw more anti PK's and PvM and crafters to support them with items, that again will draw more wolves.

    More wolves and sheeps is what Siege need. If the wolves can't find any sheeps, the shard will die.

    Siege need visible sheeps :) Instead of being a lonely stealthers, try being safe in numbers and get a good mount so you can get away from the wolves.

    Also be sure you know some anti PK's and can call them fast if you get attacked.

    Siege need to be alive, it is not a single player game.
     
  9. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    If you want to be safe all the time...play production shards. Do you think players should have to go around spamming track and detect to find anyone? I sure don't.
     
  10. Bruin

    Bruin Guest

    You know what I was thinking about that would really help Siege?

    Turn the isle of Moonglow into a 'blackrock zone' wherein you get the enchanced gains. Spawn additional monsters of all types to allow people to train from 0-120 on the isle. Put a soulforge there for training as well.

    Give the faction that holds moonglow, an additional boost to the enchanced gains. So imagine a normal person can gain from 0.2-0.5 per gain, a faction person in a faction that holds moonglow can gain from 0.3-0.6.

    Heck, you could even drop some invasion monsters in the Lycaeum that drop cursed arties.


    This would accomplish a few things:
    1. Make factions have a real purpose (a real risk/reward imho).
    2. Get people out there in a specific area of all types, pvp'ers, pvm'ers, crafters.
    3. Make it easier for people to train, with added risk.
    4. Get some good gear out there, available to everyone.
     
  11. Bruin

    Bruin Guest

    Oh, and regarding passive detect. I'm in favor of it, but it's got to be a skill based passive detect.

    For example, if someone was stealthing up to a person with 0 detect/0 tracking, that stealther should have a 95% chance of making it to that person undetected (throw a 5% passive detect out there to make it interesting, or maybe 10%).

    If someone (with 100 hide/100 stealth) was stealthing up to a person with 100 detect and 100 tracking, that stealther should only have a 50% chance of making it to that person undetected. And IF they are revealed, they should not be able to hide again or smokebomb for 10 seconds.

    Hide/stealth should NOT be automatic, there needs to be some danger in it. Nor should the passive detect be automatic, there should be some risk to getting jumped by stealthers.
     
  12. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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  13. Timothy_SP

    Timothy_SP Guest

  14. Timothy_SP

    Timothy_SP Guest

    As a thief, I don't want to be invulnerable to Passive Detect (monsters still do it to me). I just don't want to be revealed constantly making it impossible to enjoy my play-style. Skill based sounds good.

    On a side note I've love to see Snooping added in the skill check against Active Detect. Nothing overpowering, maybe a 5-10% less chance at GM Snooping. Then again I'm biased.
     
  15. Sunchicken

    Sunchicken Guest

    If you dont run 120 stealth you should have a chance to fail on stealth.
    Why should a combination of 100 hide and 80 stealth give you full benifits?

    Give me 100 magery and 100 eval to get full benifits of 120 mage and eval ill shut up about passive reveal until then nope.
     
  16. Timothy_SP

    Timothy_SP Guest

    I won't lie, I'm only running 100/80. But if it came to be that I needed 120 Stealth, I'd do it so I could still steal with high success chances.

    The real issue here is you want to nerf stealth PvP'ers and tamers. Get people out of the shadows and fighting more. All I'm saying is I don't want to be lumped in with that nerf. Call me selfish if you like.
     
  17. Kael

    Kael Certifiable
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    What I have seen lately is the shard doing alot of good things to attract and keep players here.

    We need to make sure that as a community we support the NEW guild

    We need to make sure we have affordable vendors for newer players to get geared up to be able to train and have fun with

    We need to keep supporting EM events now that it seems we have a EM that cares again for this shard
     
  18. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    Theres reasons I don`t play prodo and will never play them again. I don`t want to be safe all the time but I don`t think its right that all visibles can just walk around and pop any stealther in the area without doing jack either. Wouldn`t be fair to thieves or any other temps that needs stealth.

    I only mentioned shopping because tbh,thats all I use it for.

    If it works like Freja explained:
    I`d have no problem with that.

    My shoppers already got 120 stelf and 115 hiding,wouldn`t take nothing to get to 120,well besides a scroll. So upping the req`s from 80 to 120 wouldn`t even phase me.

    This:
    I couldn`t agree more with.
     
  19. Timothy_SP

    Timothy_SP Guest

    The real problem with any nerf is that the Developers tend to use a hatchet instead of a scalpel. Then the Butterfly Effect takes over and all hell breaks loose.
     
  20. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    I agree PD should be skill based, but those without it still need a chance, or it will be the exact same **** PvP wise. As soon as a detect char hits the field, people will log. With EVERYONE having a chance it will pretty much be PvP or bug off.

    I do agree thieves should have snooping worked into the equation.
     
  21. DarkWolf

    DarkWolf Seasoned Veteran
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    As a new player to Siege, I agree with Kael's comment on supporting NEW and having affordable vendors.

    My first couple of days on Siege, I tried doing things on my own. I ended up getting killed and drylooted 3 times. To me, this wasn't a big deal as this is Siege after all. I just found a more secluded spot to harvest leather and wool. However, to another new player, this could be very discouraging. It also kind of sucked trying to avoid people while skill gaining.

    After I joined NEW, that never happened again to me. I still got the "Oh crap" rush whenever I saw a red name appear, but they ended up leaving me alone. It was nice to be able to roam around and not have to worry so much. I even stood just outside of Luna and watched some reds chasing a blue around! I had items stolen from me by a thief, but the person revealed themselves, chuckled and dropped my measly items at my feet. I had also met a few very nice people that did give me a helping hand with gold and items. I'm not sure if all of the community treats NEW members as I was, but it sure made my gametime a lot more enjoyable.

    I'm still searching around for vendors for some items that I would like (soulforge, heritage tokens, stone oven). I did stop by most of the vendors in the Siege sticky list and was able to get quite a bit of what I was looking for. I'll make a post later on as to what I'd still like to buy, have to count my pennies first.

    As for the poll, there are a couple of things not on the list that I think would make things easier to a new player.

    1. As Freja pointed out, the ability to have a house on Siege as well as on a prodo shard or increase bank storage. A lot of people do not want to lose their homes on a prodo shard and bank boxes do not really hold that much.

    and

    2. The ability to use recall or sacred journey (with a delay on it of course). I think this was the biggest annoyance to me. I hate running around on a horse... But now I've worked my magery up high enough on one of my characters that I can now gate with scrolls (still fail quite often) so it's all good.

    Anyways, that's just one newbies 2 cents.

    Oh yeah, one more thing. Not sure if this is a timezone issue or not, but it would sure be nice to receive a reply when using chat! :wall: I hear the sound of silence more often than not...
     
  22. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I agree, put in passive, have it factor in snooping.
     
  23. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I for one am fine with recall or sacred journey or what have you, so long as there is a delay as long as gate travel, and the same casting zone restrictions. I think you should only be able to magically travel when out in the open air (by that I mean not in a dungeon server).

    Theres too much land, and no one is even around in the inbetweens, so what difference does it make.
     
  24. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    As a PvMer I love my smoke bombs. They have saved my life numerous times.

    And as it seems it´s only the PvPers that want to get rid of them and considering how most PvPers seems to be in factions how about they make it so that if you´re in factions you can´t use egg/smoke bombs?

    But then again, this would favor the visible faction templates and not sure how big of a beating the stealthing PvPers would take.

    Just a thought...
     
  25. Timothy_SP

    Timothy_SP Guest

    Any time they do changes like this they need to look at all classes and play-styles before changing anything. I'd hope this is common practice when adding entirely new skills, weapons, etc.

    Are thieves the only class negatively effected by a PvP Stealth nerf? Do Lockpickers or T-Hunters need it? SoS Fisherman?

    Will Stealth Tamers adding Snoop to their template to get around that aspect of it be common?

    Soul Stoning is a big thing now, how does that factor in if at all?

    One change can end up trickling through many aspects of the game. And don't forget there is always someone there to find an exploit (or game mechanic) and abuse it.
     
  26. Bruin

    Bruin Guest

    Not that I am for a change, but if we were to change it I would say change the gate spell so it has the same casting requirements of a 4th level spell (recall) with the delay of a 7th level spell (gate). This way just about anyone can successfully gate with a gate scroll, and this still provides others the opportunity to follow you through your gate, so it is not an immediate get away.
     
  27. Bruin

    Bruin Guest

    I disagree that snooping should come into the equation.

    To me it simply should be:
    If a 100 hide/100 stealth person walks within 1 tile of another person, they should have a 10% chance of being revealed. This allows thieves with hide/stealth a 90% chance of moving next to their prey undetected.

    If a 100 hide/100 stealth person walks up to a 100 detect/100 tracking person then, within the following number of tiles should have a chance to reveal:
    4 tiles away, 5%
    3 tiles away, 10%
    2 tiles away, 15%
    1 tile away, 20%

    This would mean that a person with 200 skills invested in hide/stealth versus a person with 200 skills invested in tracking/detect has a ~50% chance to succeed. This is how it should be (in terms of a 50/50 shot against corresponding skill levels).

    This forces stealthers to THINK about where they walk and make a concerted effort to get directly to their prey, not wander around aimlessly.
     
  28. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    PvMers smoke bombing is a problem to me as well. Just like PvMers joining factions just to jump outa Mel and hit their faction rune.
     
  29. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    I have two or three half-trained toons on Siege, but never really got into the shard because of the two issues above.

    Otherwise, Siege is fine w/ me.
     
  30. Timothy_SP

    Timothy_SP Guest

    This I agree with this along with JoaT's and Elf Bonus's being factored in intelligently.

    The only thing I see is this probably won't solve the problem. What PvP'er can invest 200 points just to be able to fight Stealthers? How many people (or groups) are going to run around with a dedicated Detector?
     
  31. Timothy_SP

    Timothy_SP Guest

    Unless the person using the Smoke Bomb has Hiding, you can just reveal them. Without Stealth, they're not going anywhere either. Why take a PvP issue, and use it to hurt PvM?

    If they are a Hide/Stealther, then hopefully and Passive Detect changes can attempt to factor Smoke Bombs in somehow.
     
  32. Bruin

    Bruin Guest

    I would make smoke bombs work but then paralyze you for 10 seconds. So use a smoke bomb, you're hidden, but then you can't move for 10 seconds. Maybe 5 seconds, long enough to give your enemy a chance to react. This would allow the pvm'ers to escape death from a monster. It would give the pvp'ers a quick few second reprieve and force their opponents to use conflag pots/fields/aoe spells to reveal them unless they forgot these or can't use them - in which case the pvp smoke bomber gets away scott free. A reasonable compromise IMHO.

    Ohh, and faction runes shouldn't exist on Siege period.
     
  33. Tiberius

    Tiberius Babbling Loonie
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    Smokebombs were an all around bad Idea as was dismounting.

    Take these two things away and you have good pvp again.

    The smaller , more skilled guilds will be able to compete vs. ganks.

    ALOT of people left when weapon dismount was introduced and now that i remember it , it was one of the things that ahd really staretd souring me on the game.
     
  34. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    The problem with this statement is that it´s not only PvPers that play this game.

    And the fact that you´ll see every NPC Ninja posting on U.Hall crying nerf... :D
     
  35. OldAsTheHills

    OldAsTheHills Lore Master
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    Earthquake spell works on anyone who is on the screen. The damage number is alway visible regardless of the damage. Stealther is found this way almost all the time. I have only escaped twice in five years under effect many times I have lost count of.

    I have never seen anyone doing Anti-pking in this game. Of please do not talk about [KSS], I never saw them in play at the same time or place as I played.
    This does not mean it does not happen, it just I never get the benefit.
    I do indeed play mostly alone...I play at pkers off time. I do get unlucky at times though.
    I am always out numbered and out matched. I am always...visible when I
    am attacked except for IDOCs.

    A player moving very fast across my screen has a swath of seven spaces if the passive reveal is three spaces away. It not that possible to avoid.

    Guilds and alliances are wonderful, but they do not play the same time as I do, and unfornately, they have things they rather do than guard me.

    I do know all the technics of avoiding those well travelled pathways.
    Try doing that at narrows in dungeons. Besides a well trained pker will zigzag the area... quickly...a person on foot in an enclosed area has the problem to evade.

    By the way, a player joins Siege Perilous as an individual...cooperation allows the possiblilty of group play...

    From what I have heard... on General chat and on this forum the complaints are mostly of Pvpers avoiding combat...house sitting. Ambushes of just hiding pkers are common place. Ambushes are fair play. The skill Ninjitsu only works if stealth skill works...
    so a call for passive reveal means death of Ninjitsu use.
    On this opinion alone... the developers will not give SP passive reveal.

    *stares*
    Yahaxithonix
     
  36. Tiberius

    Tiberius Babbling Loonie
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    WTH benefit do smokebombs and dismount have in pvm? If you are building a serious pvm char then you have pretty much hamstrung your template with hide, stealth, and ninja...
     
  37. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    *claps*
     
  38. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    Well the only thing i have to say to that statement is since all the PvP'ers left...why is the server so dead now?

    I guess the PvM'ers and crafters didn't make up as much as the shard as you think they did huh?

    Because i hate to break the bad news to you is that most PvP'ers had a crafter account...

    Back in the day PvP'ers made 80% of this server...
     
  39. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I heard it was 64%... But seriously, I don't think its out of line for pvm people to have their voices heard, there are a good amount of them.
     
  40. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    The only PvM/crafter that has a opinion in my eyes is Shalimar...her contributions to this shard are endless and has done more than any one PvP'er ever could but PvP'ers have made this shard and once their gone...you have a dead server...
     
  41. Bruin

    Bruin Guest

    PVM can exist without anyone else. PVP can't, you need someone to pvp with. I think pvp is dying because the pk's can't find anyone to pk anymore, because there are fewer pvm'ers and the land is too spread out making pvm'ers harder to find. So pk's are forced to fight amongst themselves in places like luna, which eventually just gets boring and gimpy. Then pk'ers are afraid to turn red because of all the damn luna gz huggers and they stay blue, join factions and their numbers dwindle.
     
  42. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    Fyi, this is one of my replies on UHall.. and is valid here as well.

    You'll notice that the only people complaining about Faction Items are people who dont even pvp..

    Its very possible to PvP against players who are in factions with a Non Faction suit, It's been written out many times how this is possible.

    The good players have and always will run completely maxxed out suits.. Before factions we ran Throwaway Cursed Arties, Tok Arties, and Heritage token items. At this time, all the Non pvpers cried about Those.

    Consider this, in order to get ML Arites and the sort, you basically need to dedicate your 1 Character to a PvM character.

    However, with Silver being the currency for Faction Arties and how weak some of the monsters are, Almost *Any* PvP template can farm up the Silver needed to make a suit.

    Here is what Faction Arites do for a Shard like siege :

    They make Otherwise challenging items easily accessible for average joes.


    By that i mean..

    A Player *PvM Template* can go down to swoop looking for a specific ML Arty (Fey Legs) and Farm for 2-5 Hours.. He/she might get it.. He/she Might not.. its a toss up.

    A Player *PvP Template* can go do to blighted and farm Silver serpents for 2-5 Hours.. with a 100% Chance to get the Arties he's looking for and then go PvP.


    Heres what needs to be changed for Siege..

    Make a Turn in for Faction Arties that are not your own, for X ammount of silver based on how much it was originally worth.

    Reduce the Silver prices to that of Production.

    Allow silver to be farmed by anyone, not just factions.

    -----------------

    Non faction changes :

    Return Cursed arties droping..

    Return Tok Arties and Turn ins.

    Make the chance of ML Arty Drop Much Higher.

    *Siege only*


    :heart:
     
  43. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Sound like solid ideas to me, with both pvper, and non pvper in mind. Both sides can be appeased, and fairly easily, and thats all I was getting at. :)
     
  44. Black magick

    Black magick Guest

    Considering they have passive detect on prodo shards, I think they'd be willing to put it here as well. Btw, eq doesn't show damage unless it reveals the stealther. I've nearly been killed many times on my thief by eq only to have the guy run off screen in the opposite direction and recast.
     
  45. I have to agree with this in part.I play a thief for the most part and i think that an Elf should have passive AND on the other hand I think elves should be able to stealth better as well,Prodo shards are much harder for thieves, and to be a proud SP player to go toe to toe with a prodo thief, sad to say they do have to work ALOT harder than any SP thief, but like i said I think race must come into play in that matter. Now I do think that if one wants to play a human or Garg they should give up that passive skill if they want the goodies of that race.An Elf does not get the full perks on SP so i will say with out shame elves get the shaft in that field (and to remind you I play a thief)
     
  46. Black magick

    Black magick Guest

    You got me interested in a garg thief now... :gun: Too bad I don't have any open accounts.... I agree with the snooping affecting the chance of passive detect, same with being elf since that's part of their racial abilities.
    On a side note, I can't help but notice a lack of the more vocal tnt.
     
  47. Yea well im not in TNT any more so that might clear up a lil bit of the Qs you might have.
    And if any one from TNT starts to say anything about this ,ya might want to rethink before you post other than Kat or Hat. us 3 were the only ones in vent (Hot Date)when it happen and you are only going to get there side of the story.And we all know how that all goes we all want to look like we were the good guy in the fight.
     
  48. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
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    This shard needs less AoS and more player based items i.e. crafter stuff. I'm sorry to be the one to say it, but, adding more items to this shard be it by faction items or by adding increased monster drops, will NOT save the shard. For anyone out there that uses this example "the best pvp'rs will always use the best items" , i'm also sorry to break the news to ya, you're not the best pvp'rs out there. You're the best at equipping items and thats about it. You're not using any type of player skill, and are solely relying on equipment to win your battle, period. THEE best pvp'rs this shard has ever seen left shortly after AoShet was implemented. What has been happening to the shard ever since more and more stuff has been added? This shard has been dying. Siege Perilous was never meant to be an item based shard, period. Item based shards are called carebear shards to me, otherwise known as trammy land, or prodo shards. These shards are item based and that is why they have item insurance! They don't want any risk involved if they want to grow a pair and go out and fight. The siege population (when thrieving) wasn't concerned about faction items, or cursed artifacts, or doom items, all they were concerned about was where and who they were fighting. Fighting people, thats right, i said it, FIGHTING. Thats what siege is all about. NOT items, NOT decking out my pvp'r in leeto massive uber to the hilt items. Fighting fighting fighting. You want items, you want no risk, you wanna live forever with your precious, go join the rest of the carebears in trammy land!!! Get the fu*k off my server. Most of you people that are left here have come from trammy land and thats exactly what you have infected siege with. Fix Siege, make it glorious again, i say get rid of what killed it in the first place. Get rid of the items and bring back the player.
     
  49. Well said brother, I admit i have fallen to the new way of things as of late and I also must say that I did it to play with the big boys in the play ground, how ever I play best as thief and im ok at pvp (without) uoassist even, I thing you gots me heart and im :thumbup1:going back to being the poor boy thief i once was.
     
  50. Timothy_SP

    Timothy_SP Guest

    This could potentially kill armor and weapon crafting.