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What we have here is a failure to communicate.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Bobar, Aug 6, 2008.

  1. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    The willingness of people to take secondhand protestations of innocence at face value appalls me.
    __________________
    E. Jeremy Dalberg, Mythic Entertainment www.uoherald.com

    _________________________________________________________________

    I would be more appalled if people were not inclined to take them at face value, supporting the underdog is part of human nature. The primary reason for player support in the instance of these bannings is that EA in their wisdom have decreed it must be so, therefore it is so, the unfailingly correct who never make a mistake have spoken.

    I fully support action taken to remove scripters and cheats from UO but this phase of operations reminds me of the launch of KR, ill-conceived, ill-managed and ill-born.

    Surely to god it would have been possible to have carried out this operation in a more thoughtful manner. To insta ban long time players who have worked years to achieve their status with no hope of restitution if a mistake is made must be wrong.

    EA might well be right and all who have been banned should have been BUT the player base does not and cannot know this for a fact. Perhaps they should?. Quoting some mysterious 'privacy policy' as cover is a poor excuse.
    If people cheat why shouldn't they be named and shamed?.

    What has been forgotten by EA here is that Justice should not only be done,
    It should be SEEN to be done. The procedure here smacks of the knock on the door in the middle of the night. Ban the players, Lock the houses and display the 'multitude of illegal items' for all to see.

    Prove the actions taken and you will have the support of all honest players, continue in the current mode and you will continue to have innumerable posts from players complaining about it.

    Nobody likes a police state except the police.
     
  2. Zofinur

    Zofinur Guest

    *signed*
    In all points!

    Especially these

    Especially if part of these ppl did ask for details; even to be published in the public.

    Again, i would write this by hand, sign it and send it over to EA or their lawyers if it helps: EA is allowed to publish any details why i have been banned!
     
  3. Speetz13

    Speetz13 Guest

    Title reminds me of Guns n Roses instead of whoever actually said it.

    But it's true, communication is something that we as consumers value as high as the product/service itself. If EA would have communicated before the bans but after the evidence, it would have made people a bit calmer. Also if they would have suspended traders instead of banning, removing the items and all their gold. (Then of course banning them the second time if there was such.) Hmm. Too bad, i suppose.

    Hindsight is 20-20. For all of us.
     
  4. Zodiac19

    Zodiac19 Guest

    Guess what? EA is a private business and as such they have the RIGHT to pick and choose who they are willing to do business with. I'm not choosing a side here but EA has made a choice that they are not willing to have a number of people as clients. Weather you, me or the other XXXXX# of people that play UO think this is right or wrong, it is for EA to choose and they have done so........
     
  5. Eslake

    Eslake Guest

    Ask yourself this..

    If they cannot divulge the identity of characters/players who cheat, why are they able to firebomb the house of one, leaving the flames and rubble in full view of the public for months?

    Either there is no privacy policy - it is 100% an excuse...
    Or they are in violation of it by making the banning of those owning those houses such a public matter.

    IMO it is just an excuse so they can continue to ignore the scripters/dupers/etc when we page, by saying they can't tell us even IF they are going to do anything.
     
  6. Speetz13

    Speetz13 Guest

    I think it only has to do with the stratics forum or somethin. If not, then holy crap i didn't even think of that... :thumbsup: job!
     
  7. I totally agree with what Bobar has said. Of course every time someone is banned they come here crying wolf, saying i did not do that oh no not sweet little ole innocent me. This time however the people that have been banned have said hey I am not saying I didt have illegal items, but what where they? Where did they come from? How did I get them?
    They have said, sure I buy gold for real money and then I spend that gold in the game, to buy the things in the game I need. I dont shop around I just buy what I need. I go to Luna because
    A. that is the best place to go with the most vendors.
    B. I dont have time to search the whole shard.
    C. I just want to buy what I want when I want it.
    So we have a game here that has:
    1. Allows us to have player run vendors, which enables the owner to put all items that can be made or gotten in UO on them at whatever price they choose.
    2. Player to Player trading.
    3. Idocs, where houses fall and everything in them is free for all to whoever might be there.

    What I am asking is how in the hell am I supposed to know out of all this what i can and can not have? If I am shopping I go to the store and I buy what is in that store, if I want it. I dont ask the store, where did you get this item. I just buy it.
    Player vendors are stores that are provided for us in this game. We are not suppose do have to worry about where the items come from. That is not our job that is EA's job, the job we pay them for by paying a monthly sub fee.
    Many many people quit this game and come back time and time again, myself included. We save the gold we have and our items, however we do it and then we come back and the game has changed, items have changed, we need to re-equip our char ect.
    Maybe we have serveral mil in the bank and dont think anything of buying several runics to make our new armor, since we have GM crafters. Now since we have been gone for months and or years, we dont know the price of anything anymore, maybe we dont care. So we go out and buy the stuff we need. Why should we have to spend hours searching the shard, worrying about is this duped, is the too high or too low. We just want to get the stuff we need and play. Geez, why is that so hard to understand?
    The stuff is on the vendors, we didt put it there, but we bought it, why should we be punished cuz EA didt do their job?
    Lets say, again we decide we will do idocs. Well that is something again the game provides for us, whether you agree with it or not, that is part of the game. You spend time finding the idocs, timing them and then you go and loot them. You dont know what is in the chests/bags till you get home. You dont know who owned the house that fell or anything about them or what they did in UO. They could have been someone that played the game 16hrs a day for 5 years for all you know. So you look in a chest and find several barbed kits. How do you know where they got them from? you dont. They could have run many accts and did nothing but bods, bought them off vendors, duped them, or did idocs to and collected them How do you know? Why should you know? Why should you be expected to worry about it. Again that is what you pay EA to do.
    I really wish someone could answer that question for us, instead of posting all this other stuff that does nothing but talk around the subject because they cant really answer it themselves.
     
  8. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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  9. Speetz13

    Speetz13 Guest

    ALOT of people seem to not give a hoot about price at all. They just find it and buy as long as its under about 20 mil.

    Here's a huge evidence twoards this whole "everyone shold know about the dupin' thing" Today i was hanging out in Luna talkin to some Alliuance memebers and then started a disscussion with a guildy. I started talking about the dupings and the bannings somehow, and guess what?

    SHE HAD NO IDEA WHAT THE FLIP I WAS TALKING ABOUT!!!

    She didn't even know what a dupe was. She didn't know anyone was banned. She was instantaneously scared poopless. Even after i explained everything to her, she still didn't understand fully because, well this was over guild chat, and she didn't undertand how an item could be duped.

    So what if she gets banned? Or what if she did? Or someone like her, who probably doesn't even know stratics exists?

    This is my biggest problem now with this whole thing, only because i talked to her, and the way she reacted...not even knowing what a dupe was... She didn't even know there COULD be illegitimate items in UO. And shes not dumb, shes very nice and shes a teacher. She also just doesn't care about this kind of crap. She'd rather just play the game she thinks she can play...

    EDIT: Cool hand luke? Who is that? I'm sure i should know. But GnR comes to a musicians mind first. :)
     
  10. Termination Of Account.

    EA and you both have the right to terminate or cancel your Account or a particular subscription at any time. You understand and agree that the cancellation of your Account or a particular subscription is your sole right and remedy with respect to any dispute with EA Online. This includes, but is not limited to, any dispute related to, or arising out of: (1) any term of this Terms of Service or EA’s enforcement or application of this Agreement; (2) the Content available through EA Online or any change in Content provided through EA Online; (3) your ability to access and/or use EA Online; or (4) the amount or type of fees, surcharges, applicable taxes, billing methods, or any change to the fees, applicable taxes, surcharges or billing methods.



    You can cancel your Account or a particular subscription by delivering notice to EA Online's Customer Service Department at http://support.ea.com. EA reserves the right to collect fees, surcharges or costs incurred before you cancel your Account or a particular subscription. In addition, you are responsible for any charges incurred to third-party vendors or content providers before your cancellation. In the event that your Account or a particular subscription is terminated or canceled, no refund will be granted; no online time or other credits (e.g., points in an online game) will be credited to you or converted to cash or other form of reimbursement, and you will have no further access to your Account or anything within EA Online associated with it (such as points, tokens or in-game items). Active EA Online Account holders may not allow former Account holders whose Account has been terminated by EA Online to use their Accounts. Any delinquent or unpaid Accounts or Accounts with unresolved issues with EA Online must be settled before EA Online may allow you to register again.

    TOS

    You "volunteered" to abide by the rules of "the police state".

    "EA might well be right and all who have been banned should have been" << you can stop right there ...

    yw.

    Your:Fayled Dhreams
    Fiat justitia, ruat coelum
     
  11. That is exactly what I am talking about, and its the player like her, the innocent one that just wants to play her game when she has time that gets hurt, because of the real cheaters or dupers.
     
  12. Yep you do but you assume that the people running the game have some brains and you trust them to do the right thing.
     
  13. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    Don't see anything in there that says we cant ***** about it if we don't think it's right. If you don't think the law is right don't break the law change the law.
     
  14. Zofinur

    Zofinur Guest

    I never did buy anything for RL-cash. Except gametime from EA directly!

    I never bought a higher runic (verite/valorite); neither for cash (see above) nor for gold.

    But now im banned. And not given any reasons except "multitudes of illegal items"
    Bringing me to the assumption it must have been dud checks i have been paid with, when i sold legal items.

    But again: Nobody tells me!
     
  15. Ah no I was talking about the one post from that guy that said they buy gold and move from server to server to do factions i think it was and as they go to each shard they have to equip their char, and they just go buy the stuff. They dont care the price, they just want the items, so the go to luna and buy stuff off vendors, on whatever shard they choose to play for the month.
     
  16. Minerva Foxglove

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    Well said Bobar! I 100% agree!

    Also alot of the people I know have not heard about the bannings and whats going on. They just have too fun playing to use their time for reading and posting. When they get told they first dont believe it , then they get as frustrated as the rest of us.

    I had been one of them if it had not hit Lucy of Kenton. That woke me up for sure.
     
  17. Mulch

    Mulch Guest

    Is a bit worse than just communication.

    Only some accounts got targeted above a threshold. Most likely even the dupers kept some of their accounts if they were even a bit careful.

    What EA did was data mining and everyone who got dragged up got banned without a thorough investigation, as else they would have banned all accounts of those players and not just the ones they data mined.

    That is certainly no justice, just damage control and bad one at that too.


    *Stupidity thy name is EA*
     
  18. RoycroftLS

    RoycroftLS Guest

    Every single MMORPG out there has the same privacy policy. Why? Because of the litigious society we live in. There are plenty of people out there who play the game for fun. Unfortunately, there are also some jerks with too much money who will sue at the drop of a hat because they can't understand that it's just a game. (Like what happened with the volunteer program)

    And no matter how much "proof" the devs show us, since we can't actually see the server logs directly from the server we will never have first-hand knowledge that what happened was justified. There will always be an opportunity to doubt the information they give us. Somewhere along the line you have to trust in the devs.

    Which brings me to my point. If you don't have faith that the devs put the best interest of the game (and its players) first and foremost, then why are you paying to play their game?
     
  19. Sam the Scribe

    Sam the Scribe Visitor

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    The quote came from a movie with Paul Newman. The line was stated by the warden of the prison during a scene with Newman. Newman's prison nickname was Cool Hand Luke.

    The movie is a classic.

    Safe Travels, Sam
     
  20. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    Ok fair question
    Answer - because ive been playing for over 5 years now and I am totally addicted, however I will add that any faith I might have in the belief that the best interests of the players are first and foremost has been, and is being, sorely tried.

    Now I will ask you one.

    How many of the current Dev team running this banning phase were working on UO five years ago?. I have no idea what the answer is but I sure would like to know. My feeling is, to them its a job, to me it's a way of life. Sad maybe but true.
     
  21. Sarsmi

    Sarsmi Grand Poobah
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    I think the part that the management doesn't get is that the method of doing this and lack of communication results in many legitimate players feeling frightened/turned off. This is just bad business. I do absolutely believe that there are players who had accounts banned who have no idea what exactly they did wrong. Which means the chances of their continuing to play with their remaining accounts is significantly reduced. No one wants to play a game where not only do they not know when and why the axe might fall, but if it might land on them again.

    It is that same fear that is going to upset players who weren't hit by the ban...I would bet money that at least half the players who heard about the bans but didn't get hit did mental tabulations in their head of the items they own, trying to figure out if they have anything that would put them at risk. No one wants to play in such a state of uncertainty.

    I know they are not going to explain their process to us. Which leaves it open to speculation. Speculation leads to misinformation. At least one person has said they have never owned a high end runic, the only item they can think of that they have in quantity is checks. But at least for the past few years duping checks has not been particularly lucrative. Especially now that 1 million gold in UO is only worth about 50 cents or a little bit more in IRL money. And a duped check would be really easy to launder, you would not need to go through the process of xferring to another shard to get a new ID number even. So what would that leave them with that would have been bad to possess?

    I have the feeling that if Jeremy were to respond to any of this, she would again ask why we are choosing to believe second hand information. All I can say is that from the tone and content of many of these posts my gut instinct tells me that there truly are people confused about why they got banned. And not knowing is a very unhappy feeling in most circumstances.
     
  22. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
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    I dont think it was runics. It was high end rares, like the vine cord sandals. The same code to find all the vine cord sandals code be easily modified to track any other item.
     
  23. Zofinur

    Zofinur Guest

    The only really rare item in my Possession was a Personal Bless Deed of IGM Talos.
    I expect this to be unique and unduped.

    Of course there have be the standard semi-rare items like Ranger-armor, Minihouse-deeds and stuff like that. But nothing of great value (let it be gold or $)
     
  24. LeBaiton

    LeBaiton New Player Protector
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    Sarsmi, I fully agree...

    Here's one for you, Jeremy: I've been so turned off about some of the bans, and the lack of explanation towards them (a standard mail? to all of them? ridiculous) that I've reactivated my EvE online account and just don't feel like playing UO anymore...

    I wanted to bring my accounts down to one (I have two), but I think I'll just store my most priced personal items inside banks and let the IDOC'ers have their way...

    You have been a decent politician for the time you've spend here on the boards, but it appears to have changed dramatically. I've seen you state that "Stratics forum questions won't be answered due to them being largely negative" at the town hall. Ok Jeremy, how the heck am I supposed to get my questions answered then? I live in Europe, I can't attend your American Town Halls...

    And now the fact that I'm being ridiculed because I happen to believe my guildmate being innocently banned over her explanation. Well Jeremy, I just so happen to know my guildmates way better than I know you people at EA, so you can bet your behind I'll be believing her sooner than you. Especially since EA is so good in screwing things up in an epic way...

    I'm going to think things over hard the upcomming days. It is apparent that you just don't give a ****. I want to play a game where they do, so apparently it is in both UO and my interrest to part ways...
     
  25. Very good point considering you are paying the same amount of money for a 11 year old game that you could be paying for something like WoW or Lotro.
     
  26. Beldon

    Beldon Guest

    You read the question wrong. He was stating given this fact, provided that it is unacceptable to you, why would you wish to continue playing. Either you accept it or you don't. As for the current DEV team officially they have been stating for along time now they are not going to tell you how many there are.
     
  27. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    I've gone back and forth on what I think of this situation. It is a matter of he said/she said. However, I know that our criminal justice system has screwed up before, so it is very likely some innocents were "caught" and punished by EA.

    I think the biggest problem with this current incident for most players (who don't know personally anyone who was banned) is that people have lost faith in UO trade. If it is possible to buy or sell something and be banned for it (because you are one of the unfortunate people left holding the bag), it isn't worth it to trade or buy or sell. Merchanting is one of things that makes UO a great game to me, and I hope this current mindset where people are afraid to buy anything doesn't last.

    I have no way of knowing who is innocent in all this, but for those of you who actually are, I'm sorry this happened to you.
     
  28. Beldon

    Beldon Guest

    Landicine, Jeremy said:

    A runic? No. Two or three? Naw. Thirty? Probably, yeah.

    I'm not going to give a specific number for the dupers to use to game the system, but it's high enough that most casual players won't hit it. The "innocent" guy who emailed me over the weekend had 160 or so duped items. Not so innocent. eh?

    For the people asking for a list - it depends on the actual dupe. Some only work on specific items, some work on just about anything. The latter kind we can't very well warn you about. I suspect runics were the new hotness this time around because of the buff they got last winter.
    __________________
    E. Jeremy Dalberg, Mythic Entertainment www.uoherald.com

    Somewhere around thirty seems to be the magic number to get yourself banned. But if you listen to some of the innocents it sounded like they didn't have that many items on their entire account.
     
  29. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    On my shard, I've never seen a barbed runic below 2 million, but 30 Barbed runics at that price is 60 million. That may seem like a lot, but there have been times where I've had 40 million myself. When I was discussing this with my wife last night, she figured someone who actually cared and regularly stocked their vendor could have a few hundred million without a problem or without dishonesty.

    There are some people who have claimed to have no runics, so their questionable items might take other forms. I know I don't trust any of my fellow players, and when I make a trade in person, I always break the checks and remake them. Whether they were paying me with duped gold or not, I'm still laundering it.

    I'm not saying I know if any particular person is innocent or not. I am saying it is possible. I feel great sympathy for this banned Schrodinger's cat who may be innocent.
     
  30. Beldon

    Beldon Guest

    Yeah, I am worried some of these people might be innocent too. The worst part is if they are then that should be a signal that it is time to leave the game. I mean if Jeremy is right 30+ dupes on a character should be more than enough proof. But some of the people saying they are innocent implied they didn't have that much stuff on their account.
     
  31. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    While I'm still divided about the bannings, I'm definitely with Jeremy on this particular issue.

    I've played this God-damned game too long to believe second-hand protests of innocence.

    Hell, I've played this game too long to think that it's human nature to side with the underdog anymore. Frankly I've seen most UO players, especially Fellies, side with the bully against the underdog.

    The second-hand protests, and their being taken at face value appalls me far more than it appalls Jeremy.

    Some of the first-hand protests have given me pause. But honestly, not all of them have....Some people protest their innocence, than describe actions that'd certainly arouse my suspicious if I were Mythic.

    -Galen's player
     
  32. DKHD

    DKHD Guest

    But is that not the point? I am not accusing anyone of anything here,but what did u expect them to say? "Yeah man, i had like 30+ (fill in the blank) items that were duped in my possession?" Do not be ridiculous!!!! I do not know any of these people and frankly, if you were honest, neither do you!

    None of you have looked into their bank boxes, houses, etc. and know for sure if they had the duped items or not.


    Heck, if i got caught up in it, i would say the same thing they did. Sometimes folks, honest people do dishonest things. Perhaps only once, but when the net was tossed, that once was enough to ruin their UO lives. Kinda like saying, "but officer, this was the first time i even tried crack. I was only here buying it just this once.":blushing:
     
  33. Emil Ispep

    Emil Ispep Sage
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    If that were the case, they wouldnt offer stock..

    Gulliable are we?

    Of all these posts about being unjustly banned.. TWO people were unjustly banned. The rest can go play WoW.. or equivilant.

    Theres this saying..

    "Believe half of what you see, and nothing that you hear."
     
  34. BlissMarie

    BlissMarie Lore Keeper
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    I don't think this came from Jeremy at the town hall. I'm pretty sure the lady from Whispering Rose Radio, who was presenting questions that came FROM the internet TO Jeremy, is the one who said something like - Many of the questions that are coming through won't even be asked because they are largely negative. That's a paraphrase, not a quote.
     
  35. Beldon

    Beldon Guest

    The part that is getting me to rethink their position is that EA/Mythic didn't perma-ban all their accounts. That is something new. It is nice that they got their Main Accounts this time.
     
  36. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    Sarsmi I am in 100% agreement with your post.
     
  37. LeBaiton

    LeBaiton New Player Protector
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    I can't help it you don't have friends you can trust...
     
  38. Well spoken, as was the entire post. I have silently been reading about what has been going on in Ultima Online since last fall after a renuion with some UO Veteran friends on Europa. I originally started in 1997.

    I am of course agreeing with Nyte as well, we are all customers as we are actively playing EA's MMO game. So here goes another one as I am sure as hell not going to shut up about my opinons about what is going on right now. As Nyte is saying, we are paying for a service with a montly fee. I for my sake have seen alot of situations when EA have failed to provide this thing called customer support. And I can't believe how the company ends up 11 years after the lauch of having items duped in good ol Diablo fashion and banning honest, not knowing customers from their own lack of action, doing what they are supposed to, taking care of game tech/dev related problems as we are paying them monthly for.

    Naming another company that have given me some of the best service for my montly fee is Blizzard. Someone in this thread is mentioning that this is bad for business. Dam strait it is bad for business, with competitors as the other company named above.

    Now you are about to loose alot of players again, and what is so sad is that I am certain about that you have banned innocent people that aren't supposed to have to search for errors in your product. They/we are supposed to pay and play and that's it. You are supposed to address us through your unexisting customer service and communicate about problems and how you are about to resolve them.

    There has been a lot of issues with UO throughout the years, but never have we seen players like Lucy & Co being banned and having everything ruined. I myself am never setting my foot in this game again. Shame on you, EA. I loved this game once in spite of your errors.

    Ravensgard Dragon
     
  39. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    If some are innocent, then they have been provided the vehicle by which to attempt to get their account(s) back. Some say that they do not get an answer...and it may be they deserve one...and...maybe not.

    EA has done this in the past, on a couple of occasions, that I can think of, and after investigation, restored accounts, etc.

    But, as was stated by that old post of Wilki's, and also this go around by Jeremy...

    Many, many, many of these people had the goods, and lots of goods...not just one or two or five or ten...lots of them. The one "Innocent" that had 160 duped runics...how many of you even have 160 runics, besides Theo?
    The lady that Wilki referred to that was just a housewife that loved UO? In his poignant words "Pfffffffffft".

    We can never know...and to me, that is the downside in all of it. I wish they could publish names and reasons, but they never will.

    I had to fire a friend of mine (whose name I cannot disclose) because she falsified her own time clock info (she worked in my Payroll office for three years). I had just taken a class on "Controls", and learned about time record audits, for Payroll employees.

    When I audited hers for the prior pay period, she delivered a printed version of the period, with copious notes about edits that she had made (they weren't supposed to edit their own time without my knowledge, so that was strike one). When I noticed a punch in at 6:34 AM on a Sunday, I got an oogy feeling. The punch in was at 6:34 AM, and she had noted that she forgot to punch in, but she knew it had been at that time, because that is what her computer monitor said, when she sat down that morning, to process payroll

    I went and asked our Facilities Manager if the security card times noted when someone uses their badge to open a door in the building was specific, and could be proven...the answer was no.

    I then asked, since it was a Sunday, and the alarm would have to be disarmed to gain access to the building...was THAT definite.

    The answer was Yes. When I asked who had disarmed the alarm that morning, my heart fell. It had been disarmed at 8:45 AM, by the VP of Merchandising, using his code.

    Not good...not good at all.

    Whn my employee showed up, I took her in my office, and prefaced our conversation by saying "Now...you know, like I do, that our building alarm is specific, with regard to when it is disarmed, and by who, right?"

    She said she knew that.

    Keep in mind...this person is a friend of mine, and she goes out with my wife's cousin...keep that in mind.

    Then I asked her if her time for that previous Sunday was accurate in her records...if the edit she had made for 6:34 AM was accurate.

    She looked me in the eye and said "Absolutely".

    I knew right then what I had to do. I suspended her, pending an investigation of the other days she had punched in early, and helped her gather her things. She opted to resign her position, rather than be suspended, and then terminated once the investigation was through.

    As she walked out the door that morning, she turned around and looked me in the eye again, and said "You are making a big mistake..."

    That was many years ago, and needless to say, I am no longer friends with her. I also do not believe I made any mistake, at all.

    That was my friend.

    I can most likely assure you that all of HER friends got a whole different story, than the one I just told. But the facts were 100% all there...she had stolen from the company, and I will never allow something like that to occur, no matter who the person is.

    Now...perhaps some of the people here, on the boards, that have been actioned, are indeed truly truly innocent. Maybe they stepped over a not super clearly defined line in the sand, and just really didn't know it.

    That is possible.

    It is also possible none of them are as innocent as they would like all of us to believe. It is also very possible that EA, who can see their time records, so to speak, knew exactly what they had done, and no one, not even their closest ingame friends, guildies, and associates knew.

    That is also possible.

    What is also possible is that if they are persistent enough, if they truly are innocent, and I mean persistent enough with the right people at EA, that they, like the couple of others that have had their name cleared, and are back playing, after being falsely accused, could be back playing again, themselves.

    But at the end of it all, we may have a bit of a Performance Management issue here, it appears on the surface. The people banned say they have never been warned, etc., and that may be true. But we can never know any of that, with the certainty required to make absolute judgment calls on the issue.

    I bought two heartwood runics from a vendor in Luna a while back. I had burned them, and mentioned them to one of my TS buddies My ingame friend went to the vendor, and in TS, mentioned how many Val runics the guy had, when he went and looked. When I went back and looked, I was a bit shocked. He had like 25 Val Hammers. Hmmmm. Needless to say, I realized that there was no way for most anyone, except maybe 40,000 BOD Theo to have that many hammers, and I don't think he plays my shard, so I steered way clear. That vendor was taken down, when all the hubbub about the dupes came to the surface, and now I truly feel bad for having given my gold to a cheater. The vendor house that allowed the vendor is still there, however.

    I have no idea if that vendor was taken by EA, or by the owner, but if I get banned for unknowingly buying and using two Heartwood runics, and using them, then I will take my lumps.

    I do own a Luna Vendor house, and I do have about 250 mill liquid gold on my vendors, but I am no trader. I either make or loot what I sell, and I can say that I am not too worried about a false banning. I don't rent out vendor spots at all...they are my vendors, that I stock myself.

    It is possible that EA could come down on me for buying those two Heartwood kits, I suppose...but I have played since Beta...I don't do anything to jeopardize my account, and God willing, when I get home from work tonight, I will be able to log in, like normal.

    But if not...then I will come back and let you all know it, and confirm that buying a runic or two WILL get you banned. There would be no innocence, other than the less than well defined line in the sand, and the lack of the "Duped" tag on the kits I bought.

    My silence on the matter will indicate that Jeremy tells the truth about who they took out of the game, I would think...at the very, very least for my accounts.

    And...if mistakes really were made, then I do hope that those falsely accused get a chance to restore their name, characters, and possessions.

    Hopefully EA really checked their time records very, very carefully, before taking such drastic action.
     
  40. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
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    Yes I do know the person banned on Siege I was guilded with them and there are less than 10 players in the guild. I know what was in the house that was deleted because the chests were accesable to me.
    The Guild RPed savages and ran around in bone armor no riches to speak of whatsoever.
     
  41. Xrenos

    Xrenos Guest

    Well said. I agree with your point of view.
     
  42. Zofinur

    Zofinur Guest

    Still waiting for some firsthand-information from the only ppl they could give it: EA-Customerservice.

    Yet i did hear
    Due to the nature of your issue, more time is required for investigation.​

    and
    escalated ... to higher level/concerned department, and the issue is still waiting for a response from that team.

    But also this one
    We appreciate the opportunity to assist you and look forward to getting you back in the game!

    Sadly this is another phrase :(
     
  43. Experimental

    Experimental Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    No they didn't.
     
  44. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    And you're 110% sure that they weren't duping or dealing with duped goods on another shard? People can play on multiple shards you know...
     
  45. Sheridan

    Sheridan Guest

    This is absolutely, positively untrue. That quote was from one of the DJs from Whispering Rose Radio who was relaying the questions she was receiving and not Jeremy. This is the fourth or fifth time I've seen this quote attributed incorrectly to Jeremy. Please don't perpetuate it.
     
  46. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    No, what we have here is a large bunch of idiots that want to whine and cry because they think they have "rights".

    UO is a game, run by a for-profit company. You and everyone here signed a contract by entering the game that allows EA/Mythic/OSI to do whatever they wish in regards to your gameplay. If you don't like that, you can stop paying them and close your account.

    That contract is between YOU and THE COMPANY. It is not between US and THE COMPANY. As a consequence, EA would have to change the contract to allow them to put out specifics on why someone was banned (i.e. they had bought and sold 200 BRKs) or get the permission of all involved to put that information out, or be pulled up in court for privacy issues.

    So, explain to me oh yoda, why that is a police state?

    I'm getting sick and tired of idiotic claims of all these people, they THINK they are championing and being good little activists, when they are actually just being fearmongering conspiracy twits that need a serious swirling wedgie.

    Honestly, I was hoping the new "statement" by stratics was that no new threads on this idiocy could be made.
     
  47. Zofinur

    Zofinur Guest

    Hard for me to say in english, but there is some kind of three powers in a 'good' state (In german: "Exekutive", "Legislative" and "Juristikative")

    1. Those who make the laws
    2. Those who judge, make decisions based on laws
    3. Those who make sure the decisions are fullfilled

    And in such a police-state as mentioned at least two powers are in the same hand.
     
  48. Rosalinda

    Rosalinda Journeyman
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    I think the UK/USA terms are:

    1. Legislature
    2. Judiciary
    3. Executure
     
  49. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    And in most western democracies, the same party controls at least 2 of the three most of the time, as well, and pretty much walk in lock-step with each other, on the orders of the party leadership...

    Your point?

    Businesses aren't democracies - thay are autocracies by their very nature. You have sole proprietorships where the owner's rule is law, and corporations where the board effectively acts as representatives of the shareholders (if any, outside the board). You typically choose to do business, or not do business, with a company, if not an owner - that is the extent of your ability to "vote", unless the company is polling customer data for some reason.
     
  50. LeeHarvey

    LeeHarvey Guest

    ...And this has what to do with a business saying it doesn't want you as a customer anymore?