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Discussion in 'UHall' started by Smoot, May 9, 2014.
just a simple poll. no need to start a debate we all know the 2 sides will never see eye to eye.
I play 2d my choice of client
I have been at times using the EC for somethings since I got my new pc,
So I hope both stay
I still don't understand why merging them isn't an option? One client, both art assets are in it. Pick a toggle of what art style you want to see and what macro/targeting system you want to use and you're good to go. You can even mix and match! Benefit is 2D users will finally get 2D in larger sizes than a US post stamp [even if the 2D assets look uglified on large screens] and enhanced users get...? Well anyway end result would be one client and no more time wasted on two competing clients.
I'd play with whatever client they decided on. I do think maintaining two clients must be a huge drain on resources.
A lot of players have old computers, and they can't run the new client I seriously do not expect them to buy a new computer just to use the new client. Whats wrong with having 2 clients I see nothing wrong with it. The Devs and Mesanna see nothing wrong with working on 2 clients.
I played the old 3D client for a while when I first started. After a while (some time before Paragons were introduced), I switched to 2D. I've used it ever since.
I like the way it looks, so I have no problem with using it. My computer could easily run either though - I purchased a new one (with Windows 8) after 7 years, just because I was still using Windows XP & had no choice. Even the ridiculous amounts of lag I once had is a thing of the past - on my old comp, I'd have some nasty lag spikes & freeze for at least 30 seconds. When you're PvP'ing (last time I did any was in '07) or fighting tough monsters, that's a death sentence.
you've been driving a classic old muscle car for almost 17 years.
you purchased that car because thats the car you wanted and you have enjoyed every minute youve had with it over the years.
one day you go out to the garage and someone replaced the car you love with a ugly new-ish car thats a crappy color, the ashtray keeps falling out, it wont start on rainy days and the only radio station it gets is some strange techno polka channel.
Since you geezers are already insulting the new client, the graphics are crap on the old CC like a bad comic book. It reminds me of the old Bazooka comics that came wrapped around bubble gum, tiny cheap-looking images on a bad background. I could probably play on the CC once again... if someone could get me a 27 inch magnifying glass. And maybe a free UOAssist account.
Now, carry on.
Ok, and? You don't like it, so you don't use it. That's nice. No need to be so insulting for those of us who still use it.
Just do as the man says...
Does UO Assist cost money?
Can you add an option for "not sure"? I can't vote. I use EC and don't know what I'd do if it were dropped.
Any computer made in the last 5 or so years can run the EC. Just what kind of old computer are we talking about here? A 700 MHz processor running windows 98? I think that old computer argument fails. Everyone has to update eventually especially since Microsoft pulled support of XP and XP users are sitting on time bombs because there won't be anymore fixes in the future.
With two clients they have to essentially do everything 2 times, resulting in really long patch cycles. Would you rather keep the status quo and have patches that take nearly a half year to release or cut the dev time and allow for faster patches and more fun? The dev team is only 5 people and are very thinly stretched. The ideal solution would just be to merge the clients, who cares if the system requirements go up a bit. The EC client isn't exactly going to need the highest powered PC on the market to run.
UOA is a one time payment of $10 per account. It's not exactly expensive.
I paid for uo assist when it came out. best money ever spent
That should not be a consideration IMO. You can't hold the game up because some people are using 10 year old computers.
I don't think they should get rid of either client to be clear, because both have glaring faults, but I really don't think they should worry very much about people using old computers.
Disagree. Accessibility is ridiculously important and a contributing factor to why games like WoW were so successful: because the client scales well for low-spec machines. You can't just ignore the hardware of your core playerbase just because you think they should have upgraded, lol. You have to deal in the currency of reality in business situations. The more people who can run your game the better.
I'm a fan of the EC but I disagree with this too. The EC seems very sluggish even on machines that I would consider reasonably powerful (i5, 4GB RAM, dedicated mid-range nVidia card) which can run 3D games like WoW, GW2 and ESO well. Only on my i7, 16GB RAM gaming machine does the EC run near enough flawlessly. I think it has optimization issues and unfortunately they will likely play a part in the EC not being adopted by as many as it could be. There's no way an isometric game should struggle to run on even low-range hardware these days.
The EC works nice and smoothly for me. But I WILL admit that the EC doesn't like housing areas too much. Running through areas will a lot of housing will slow the client down while each house and the items inside are downloaded into the client. This is something that needs to be worked on massively.
I play CC but losing it would not make me quit and it would maybe give more resources to fix the bugs that make me not play EC
Guess I would have to try EC again. Im playing for the community but I wouldnt be happy looking at the screen.
E C B Not E Z On The I To Me.
I'm not even drinking I swear.
This is really a meaningless poll that you can't draw any useful information from. It's not the OP's fault, it is a limit of the forum itself. You can't get a good sampling, the questions have a bias built in, and anyone who answers is self-sampling. So don't try to interpret the voting and say it means anything.
Mesanna has already said that about 50% of the people use either client, and neither is going away any time soon. So, what IS the point of this poll?
I don't want to CC gone, but I would stop playing if the EC was scrapped.
I just acquired a nifty 4K monitor and I dread the thought of how the CC would look at that.
The CC could also use some of the handiest EC features, such as an option to see the containers in a grid and some auto dress macros so people don't have to spend hours looking for that ring of theirs in that backpack.
My feelings exactly. there should be an option for don't know. I thought about it and didn't vote for just that reason.
after leaving the stone age client behind and moving on up to the enhanced client i would stop playing if the 3d client was dropped,
its just to big of a step backwards for me on too many levels,
on my rig the EC is flawless, no slowdowns at houses or spawns, ssd drives and decent graphics cards help with that tho, not to mention decent network latency
just noticed an earlier post that EC is badly optimized, i disagree, it runs flawless on my other non gaming pc which is a win 7 64 bit with onboard intel HD4000 graphics , i5 ivycore 3570k 8GB ram, an SSD,
I use both, depends what I'm doing.
Personally I would like to see the CC get some tweaks & bug fixes and EC get major work.
Since Pinco is now working for broadsword on a 'new' client, I think I'm going to be a happy bunny
But it's the people that make the game for me, not the client. I'll live with whatever the devs throw at me!
I can't play the enhanced client for the life of me, the character movement is too funky, & I don't like backpack grid, specifically the scrolling downward drives me nuts. I have no problem with the artwork, there are very beautiful graphics tied into the enhanced client, minus the character bodies themselves which is very bad. Tried many times to play a melee with enhanced client, & I just end up dying repeatedly due to my 17 year brainwashed classic client preferences. I like various things out of both clients, classic for the game play mostly, but enhance client makes a player home really glamor, waterfall effect actually animates with enhanced client which I never knew until recently. The one thing I will never agree on about the enhanced client is supposedly it makes players move faster than if they were on the classic client, I have timed my own character movement & its defiantly true, so you can see why people that pvp may despise enhanced client if they grew up playing classic all these years & just can't switch over for factors known & unknown. Both clients are already in the system though, so I don't understand what this thread is representing in terms of the cancellation for one client over the other?
There are too many variables for me to consider, & I wouldn't want to choose which client people get stuck with playing after all this time that both clients have been available. There is still future purpose with the classic when running wireless mobile device since the graphics are a lot less demanding, & obviously for pushing forward in the future on a normal connection the enhance client should continue to pave the road. Hypothetically, after experiencing everything up to this day, then taking modern UO & starting out as a brand new player, I would not touch classic client for a long term approach, (other than beginning with the free trial which most new players do not hear about uoassist for some time), yet instead the enhanced client would be my choice, with or without pincos. Back to reality though, a 17 year habit of classic client is way too hard to for me to break, & get over while becoming fluent with enhanced client unless what this thread proposed really did take place, in which case is also unrealistic to assume. In conclusion, I will not cast the first stone & make a choice, other than choosing to not choose .
I hate to say I'd quit if forced to return to the 2d client. At this point I'm not far from quitting anyway so one thing like that would likely nudge me to finally give up UO. Never thought I'd ever quit the game I've loved for so long but just doesn't seem to be enough to look forward to right now to really keep my interest.
I wish more than anything that they would work hard at fixing the flaws in the EC ...... it's my opinion that if they really worked at it and put a polish on it that the EC would become the dominant client in short order if they fixed several flaws that I have spoken to Mesanna at length about. I recall I went thru all the art files and numerous other things and pointed out the flaws in quite a bit of things. I do hope she got the new art guy on them. I know they are working on cleaning up the graphics and making them sharper and all which is good. I hope it's not too little too late.
One thing that will always irk me is the changes to some of the mobs. The Hiryu looks like a plucked chicken... it's the most horrible thing I've ever seen..... not that they were that cute to begin with but *sigh* now they are hideously ugly. Some art is missing still in the EC. I know they "think" it's fixed but it is NOT..... YOU CAN'T SEE THE (*&)(*&)(*& GIANT HORDE MINION OF MULTICOLOR IN THE EC!!!!!!!!!!! Don't know how many times I've said it. I see it used often.... or rather don't see it. When EM's use it as a mob boss can't fight what I can't see.... When Mesanna uses them for the GM guards she brings can't see them... can't fear what I don't see. Needs fixing.
Sure there are things they could do for the old 2d client..... but honestly most of the things they can do for it are moot. Truth is the code and all for the old 2d client is full of holes. Holes which have been exploited by certain unmentionalbe sites for YEARS.... The old 2d client is what is responsible for most all 3rd party exploits as well as the population of illegal 3rd party sites that sell stuff..... and have a limited vendor search feature and all that. It is the holes in that client that allow them to run the illegal 3rd party sites. Everyone knows it. Many times they have tried to fix it or stop it but have been unsuccessful.... It's beyond time to put a stop to it. Many of the "cheat" programs use it. As well as the rip-off free version non-approved version of UOAssist.... which yes costs money.... money not paid to UO for UO development. Many of the things in UOAssist as well as Pinco's UI ought to BE IN UO. There are things in both programs that should have been a part of UO for years. A way to turn off your rewards from popping up everytime you log in.... and a way to keep count of regs, bandages, etc in a nice and unobtrusive manner... More intuitive mouse over notes like Pinco has put into the EC UI ought to be a part of UO in the first place and that ought to be available no matter what client you use. A way to do less mouse clicking and stacking of yarn and such ought to be IN UO. I shouldn't need a 3rd party program to do that for me.
I could go on and on about it... but I think everyone gets the idea.
I don't hate 2d. I hate the holes in 2d that have plagued and in my opinion driven away hundreds of good players. You've no idea how many people return to UO and say things like "OMG that bug is still here? OMG they still let xyz exploit the game? and how they can still use xyz program to "cheat"..... etc....." And I'm just disgusted with it. And it's even more disturbing to have folk show you how much free shards have achieved that UO has NOT. How they have "fixed" many things that UO still struggles with. How they have vastly improved not only graphically but on many other levels as well. But I put the blame for that squarely on EA for it's mismanagement of UO. For cutting the team to the bone and then crushing the bones as well...
I'm happy for Broadsword to be given the opportunity to raise UO from the ash and fire... but I wonder if it's not too late.
How is having one client going to cut down on the Devs time they still will have to work on everything 2 times even in the one client to make 2d and ec clients happy. I feel it would be more a waste of Devs time to spend the time and putting the 2d or ec client in one client. Why because 2d or ec clients won't move to either client.
I can run as fast in the EC as in the CC (running along with people I can still see I'm at the speed cap), but it doesn't "feel" that way because of the EC's animation. It's not a matter of my computer's power, or the game's framerate. I just find it slightly but noticeably choppier than the CC.
Because the CC and EC use two different sets of coding and this has to be programmed twice, tested twice and everything done twice to properly support both clients. Merging the 2D art assets into the EC is just that, importing the art over. After which point, both clients would be one and just work off one unified code. There won't be a need to do everything twice except for when they add new wearable art, and that almost rarely happens.
I don't see how else I can explain how a client merger would save countless dev time and actually let them invest time doing other content. Patches are taking almost a *half year* to come out between patches, players are getting bored to death by the lack of meaningful new content, and the support for two different clients with a dev team consisting of 5 people is part of the reason why everything takes so long.
The last meaningful new content was Blackthorns dungeon and it's already been almost 5 months since it came out...
EC came out what? 5 or 6 years ago? my UO comp is aging, but it was a very substantial gaming pc 4 years ago. not some 500 dollar economy comp. So at the time EC came out i had a gaming pc that SHOULD have handled it excellently. theres something wrong with it. very sluggish. i wouldnt even think about turning spell graphics all the way up (highest settings work fine on more modern games)
Im not even going to get into the looks of EC, thats personal taste i suppose (i dont play a classic game for "modern" graphics anyway)
Im hoping that in the next couple years, after virtue vice is done, that the devs / Broadsword might scrap the EC for a new client. Make the EC what it was supposed to be. integrate a UI like pincos. plug up the memory leaks. redo most the art to keep it more in the spirit of UO.
2 enhanced clients came before the current one, so i still have high hopes for yet another.
That being said, if the classic client graphics were changed id most likely quit. it just wouldnt be the same game anymore for me. The draw of a classic mmorpg would lose its uniqueness for me if classic client were scrapped. Id stick to focusing only on modern games that were actually designed to be modern.
Thank you for explaining it the best way you know how. I have a better know how of how things work now also. I have no prob with using both clients.
What keeps me from using ec all the time is I don't like the macro system. It gives me a headache trying to figure it out. I like the 2d macro system I don't want all that stuff on my screen.
For the people using the "old computer" argument, let's see some proof. Someone post me the OLDEST/WEAKEST functional system on which they ACTIVELY play UO (i.e. just to log in to prove you can do it doesn't count. I'm talking about someone still playing daily on a P4 MMX machine or the like).
Isn't @Pinco working with them now on something?
No CC would finish me off for good.
I would quit playing if CC was scrapped. I personally can not stand the look of the EC. For the CC I feel it has a stylized appearance in it's art direction. I personally like the artwork of the paperdoll and a few other things.
I'm also part of the "younger" crowd of UO being 20. So the argument that only the older folk prefer classic client is simply not true.
This poll is silly.
this man been playing UO on this computer.
Some one is still using this computer they just don't want to give it up. OMG!!! I know I can get more life out of this computer.
yes, I am working with the team on a great new interface... The details are classified, but you're gonna know all about it when the time is right
I play WoW on this computer just fine but the EC chugs on it, which is pretty hilarious. The EC isn't optimized worth crap, and whether it runs decently or not on a given computer is basically random.
Well now, that's epic news indeed!
Should have happened years ago, but at least it's being done!
I agree with Kelmo
I cant answer this one as I can only play in CC..for health reason
I'm sure that the client could run better, but you shouldn't be bending over backward to make it run on old computers because a small group of people are using computers that cant run the EC. If it can great, if not, well that's just a computing reality. Obviously the more people who can run the game the better... but not at any price.
I don't think the core player base uses computers that can't run the EC. If I had to bet I would bet those numbers are probably small. At least half the players can and do use the EC, and of the people I have ever heard give reason as to why they use the CC over the EC taste is the major reason, rarely I heard tech limitations, but not recently.
As someone with a fairly old computer that sits below what you would call reasonably powerful the EC runs just peachy. I just can't stand the mishmash art. I also don't like the mishmash art in the CC but there at least I can generally escape it because it's mainly just deco stuff, and some equips.
My wife's computer:
A 10.1" Acer netbook from 2010, running Ubuntu. WINE isn't playing nice with the patcher anymore, sadly.
And she's a nearly ten year vet that would likely quit if the CC went away, even if we replace her netbook with a proper newer computer.
(I think it goes without saying that my three accounts would be gone too after 14+ years of playing)
So, i showed this poll to the powers that be, and they said "oh wow only 16 percent of people would quit quit if we went back to one client" so they shut down EC client
This is startics and those that use it. Polling the player base from here is like letting Mexico decide the next US president. I am one those statics surfers that is bored with the game so I spend more time here. Sure the larger stratics population by poll are here because they don't need to be active on UO to get things done in game. For those that the shoe fits would never admit it.