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Whatas the latest /best Archer template to aim for- and best bow style at mo?

Discussion in 'UO Warrior' started by Guest, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    well just let me know the best machine gunning archer tamplate a should make and whats the best bow to choose...
     
  2. PvP or PvM?

    For PvM (Assuming 720 Skill Cap):

    120 Archery
    120 Bushido
    100 Tactics
    100 Anatomy
    100 Healing
    100 Resist
    80 Chivalry

    Use Heavy Crossbows with 30+ SSI & as much Stamina as you can possibly put on it. I use both a Demon & Undead Slayer heavy for Doom, and am always one of, if not THE, top damagers, hitting DF's for up to 190 (with GM Resist, BO is knocked down to approximately 40 points of damage to self).
     
  3. midiguru

    midiguru Guest

    Faster bows are usually better than the slower bows. The SSI for the most part can almost be considered DI since the more shots you fire the more hits you'll score which in the end equates to far more damage. I've got a 35ssi Deamon Slayer xbow that is totally insane but i have a 30ssi magical shortbow that is just as insane. The magical shortbow produces far more damage every single time because of the swing speed.

    Also for pvm i wouldn't waste more than 75 points in Chivalry and 85 points in bushido. I run a templete pretty much exactly the same as connor is quoting except that i use 85 bushido and 75 Chiv which gives me more points to use else where which IMO are more important than max bushido.

    120 Archery
    115 Tactics
    115 Resist Spells
    110 Healing
    100 Anatomy
    75 Chivalry
    85 Bushido

    If you want machine gunning archery you need max dex as much ssi you can get on your bow and use a magical shortbow you won't be doing any machine gun style archery with a heavy xbow trust me.
     
  4. imported_GFY

    imported_GFY Guest

    I really like Connors template myself.

    When I was building up my archer I noticed a BIG jump in critical hits and prefection at 115+ bushido. Not to mention better healing using the confidance special.
     
  5. It's a great PvM template. Do you use enough Bushido skills to really justify 120 points?

    I'm wondering if Spellweaving (WoD, Attune, Renewel, Immolating, Gift of Life) might be a better use of 120 points, since Parry won't be a benefit from Bush?

    Actually Bush for LS alone might be well worth the 120. The extra damage would probably be more over the course of a Dark Father then the WoD at the end of the fight.

    <blockquote><hr>

    am always one of, if not THE, top damagers, hitting DF's for up to 190

    [/ QUOTE ]My Necro/Mage/SW does 200+ Flamestrikes to the DF, then usually get in one 540+ WoD at the end. While in Wraith Form I can do them non stop.

    *PS, the only reason my archer isn't in doom is that he's quite red [​IMG]
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    What spells are you using in Chivalry? I am about ready to stone my focus and take up Chivalry yet concerned about mana. I only pvm at this time.
    Currently I am:
    Anatomy 100
    Archery 120
    Bushido 93 (set up)
    Focus 110
    Resist 100
    Tactics 107 (set down)
    Healing 90
    my s/d/i is 103/137/30

    suggestions?
    *edited to add healing, oops!*
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks alot! I do have healing at 90. oops! Thanks for the quick reply! Think I'll give it a try!
     
  8. I'll answer all the questions here.

    First to midiguru:

    A prime example of 'why the slower bow instead of the faster' is the Mag invasion, where myself using my 30 SSI Demon slayer vs another archer using the Night Reaper, was able to get 3/4 of the loot pack to the other archer's 1/4. Another PRIME reason for using the heavy crossbow combined with 120 Bushido is the amount of mana you leech back while in a prolonged fight, such as against a DF. When hitting for up to 190 against a DF, compared to the very small amount the Night Reaper, or even my Demon slayer Magical shortbow. is about 20-30 points of mana (or life for that matter) leeched compared to 1-4 from the faster bows. That's several spells worth of mana leeched all at once, enabling you to do more damage, as you can cast more spells, both Chiv and Bushido. When going against a DF, even when there's only 5ish other players, I NEVER run out of mana, and I'm casting spells non stop, both LS and Divine Fury. I tested 115 Tactics &amp; 110 Anatomy against 115 Bushido, and found that I was able to do more damage with the increase in Bushido than I was with both Tactics and Anatomy combined.

    I go with the higher Chiv for 2 reasons. 1, I've got the skill points to put into it, and 2, fewer failures with EoO, which means more damage over time. Having extra points in Resist really doesn't do much more than keep you from being poisoned a little bit more often, which, with Bushido in your template, is really a waste of those points as you can heal through poison, not to mention just using orange petals, or life leech on a bow, or plain good old fashioned Healing/Anat.


    Jimmy Pop-

    LS alone, combined with the 20% crit chance at 120 Bushido, along with the increased healing from Confidence, not to mention 90% (?) control of a Hiryu make it more than worth the points. I crit against most of the Doom bosses at around 250 or so. Think about that amount with a decent mana leech, not to mention putting you at the top of the damagers list, thus the increased drop chance.


    jelindas- Definitely get rid of focus, and switch to mana regen armor combined with a mana leech bow. For Chiv, I use EoO, Divine Fury, Consecrate Weapon, Remove Curse (though not that often on this one), Cleanse by Fire, and of course, Sacred Journey. If you get a pair of the Brightsight Lenses and a Rune Beetle Carapace, that's 6 mana regen right there.


    I think that covered everybody... [​IMG]
     
  9. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
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    midiguru wrote:

    <blockquote><hr>

    120 Archery
    115 Tactics
    115 Resist Spells
    110 Healing
    100 Anatomy
    75 Chivalry
    85 Bushido


    [/ QUOTE ]


    It would help understand more if you also listed what armor/jewellery you are using. That is, if you get particular modifiers and/or boost skills with jewellery.
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Many thanks! You guys are very helpful. My apologies to op for borrowing the thread, although I think it helped us all in a way that was 'somewhat' on topic!
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    This is one of the better post I've read in a while, I honesty think it should be stickied because of the good information in here.

    It's almost got me convinced to drop Ninjitsu for Bushi-do
     
  12. midiguru

    midiguru Guest

    I agree with you that a powerful bow with mana leech is nice but by comparing your heavy xbow damage to a night reaper isn't really getting the "real" picture. At 85 bushido i may not get as many criticals but i do 144 a hit with my magical shortbow i do about 250 sometimes more a hit with my heavy xbow this is to the dark father without criticals. Although the damage is about 100 more points on average with the heavy xbow i can get 2-3 more shots off with the magical in the same time it takes for 1 shot with the heavy even though the heavey is at 35ssi and the magical is only at 30ssi. The bottom line from my heavy xbow i get maybe 250 every 4-5 seconds? I get roughly 144x3 = 443 with the magical shortbow damage in the same amount of time. If you really do the math in the end the lower damaging faster bow will always almost win out unless the fast archer is missing alot but since i have almost max HCI that rarely happens. Plus if you miss even once with your heavy xbow i've just dusted you in damage even if i missed once out of every 3 shots. The xbow may be better in some instances for pvp but then again we aren't talking about pvp.
    ]
    Personally i'd still pass on the 120 bushido cause it's just not worth 120 points for like 3-4 spells even with enhanced criticals. Not to me at least. I'd rather have the resist bonus and everything else which would help in pvp as well. For my swords bushido guy i have 120 but he actually can use all the bushido spells cause he has parry since the bushido archers can only use about half of them devoting 120 of your archers points to this is a bit silly IMO. But that's just me.
     
  13. A Night Reaper, with it's massive SSI, still only gets 2-3 shots off to my 1 (I have extra HCI as well so don't miss much either), so I'm still doing more damage. I have a Demon magical short myself, and comparing the 2 with some pretty intensive battle field testing, the heavy does more DOT than the short. Add to that the increased crit %, the amount of mana leeched, and the fact that I can cast more spells with more mana, and I'm far outdoing any slower weapon. I've tested it pretty thoroughly both ways, and can say from this testing, the heavy does a lot more damage.
     
  14. midiguru

    midiguru Guest

    I hear what your saying but i think it all depends on the uberness of the bow(s) in question. I've tested it extensively myself as i always keep both of my uber demon slayers on me in doom. For me the Magical far outdamages the Heavy everytime I only use the heavy bow on the abysmal horror room now and only so that i don't wear out my magical as fast. I'd be interested in you posting the mods on your two bows so i could figure out why your heavy xbow is doing more damage cause for me that's just not the case. The only thing that i can think of is that your magical short bow demon slayer isn't quite as uber as your heavy. You mind posting the mods? I can post mine too once atlantic comes back up....
     
  15. They're both pretty close all things considered. Neither has any DI, but then I really don't need it. The short has all 3 leeches where the heavy just has mana leech w/30 SSI.
     
  16. midiguru

    midiguru Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    They're both pretty close all things considered. Neither has any DI, but then I really don't need it. The short has all 3 leeches where the heavy just has mana leech w/30 SSI.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This IMO is why your view on the Heavy Xbow doing more damage is flawed. Your tests were skewed trying to compared a Heavy Xbow with 30ssi to a Magical Shortbow with less than 30ssi no DI and only leeches. Given your two bows it makes sense why your Heavy Xbow is the better choice. My tests were based on a Heavy Xbow with 35ssi and a Magical with only 30ssi even though the Heavy scored on average 200-250 per hit and the Magical did 120-144 the Magical does significantly more damage due to the higher number of hits I score.

    You also have to consider that every time you miss with the Heavy even if only a few times will cause the gap between damage dealing to widen more in favor of the Magical Shortbow even if that bow missed 1 in 3 shots. I did the math for you a few posts ago. My tests have proven to me at least beyond the shadow of a doubt that when compareable SSI speeds are on both bows with max dex. The Magical Shortbow will far outdamage the Heavy Xbow over time purely because of the speed.
     
  17. "My tests were based on a Heavy Xbow with 35ssi and a Magical with only 30ssi even though the Heavy scored on average 200-250 per hit and the Magical did 120-144 the Magical does significantly more damage due to the higher number of hits I score."

    The only problem with your equation is that swing speed is capped at a max of 1.25 seconds. With zero SSI on a magical shortbow at 150 dex (with Divine Fury cast which is how my bows would compare to each other), it's already capped, so any SSI on it has no bearing on the math. My heavy crossbow is swinging at 2.25 seconds, so your short is only swinging 1 second faster, then add in the 10 SSI from Divine Fury, which will affect my swing speed and not yours, since you're already at the cap, and that puts you at only .75 seconds faster, so you're not getting off a second shot to my one. Add in the fact that your crit chance is 10% at 85 Bushido, while mine is 20%, and it jumps the DPS up to the point that the heavy is by far outdoing the short. Base DPS for a Magical short (using the figures from our comparable bows) is 14.8 while the heavy's is 18.75, so going by math alone, the heavy is far outdamaging the short.
     
  18. smile

    smile Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    PvP or PvM?

    For PvM (Assuming 720 Skill Cap):

    120 Archery
    120 Bushido
    100 Tactics
    100 Anatomy
    100 Healing
    100 Resist
    80 Chivalry

    Use Heavy Crossbows with 30+ SSI &amp; as much Stamina as you can possibly put on it. I use both a Demon &amp; Undead Slayer heavy for Doom, and am always one of, if not THE, top damagers, hitting DF's for up to 190 (with GM Resist, BO is knocked down to approximately 40 points of damage to self).

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hi Connor

    I read quite a bit of your post on the tempate and got a few questions. I myself have a bushido pvm archer, and I took up meditation so as to use LS for most of my attacks. The drawback is that I have to sacrifice healing and that can suck. With your template, my concern is really on mana. You mentioned that you leech enough to use LS on all hits, plus other chiv spells.

    1) With the mana leech nerf, I often have problems with mana. Can you share with us how high is your mana leech on your bow?

    2) Do you use a slayer on all your bows for the extra damage, and thus the higher leech? If so, do you have problems with mana when fighting peerless, as no slayer properties work on them.

    3) How does your template fare in terms of fighting mobs, such as those in magincia, or when gathering peerless keys such as those in proxy? Do you leech enough at all? My concern with mobs is that you either have to forgo EoO or you have to cast it when fighting different monster types, and that can be very mana intensive. Plus, there is also the issue of being able to honor all the monsters prior to attack.

    4) How high is your mana regn from items? That used to work for me prior to the nerf but not anymore [​IMG]

    The last question is not really on mana concerns but more on your HCI. Do you have high HCI on your template since you are spamming LS mostly?

    Thanks!
     
  19. 1) With the mana leech nerf, I often have problems with mana. Can you share with us how high is your mana leech on your bow?

    The mana leech on my heavy is only 7%, yet even with it being as low as it is, I'm rarely ever out of mana as it's the only mod on the bow, and I hit for such high damage amounts.


    2) Do you use a slayer on all your bows for the extra damage, and thus the higher leech? If so, do you have problems with mana when fighting peerless, as no slayer properties work on them.

    With the bow that I use for Peerless, at 36% mana leech, I never drop below 70 of my 81 mana when I've got her honored. I hit Lady Mel for well over 250 points of damage.


    3) How does your template fare in terms of fighting mobs, such as those in magincia, or when gathering peerless keys such as those in proxy? Do you leech enough at all? My concern with mobs is that you either have to forgo EoO or you have to cast it when fighting different monster types, and that can be very mana intensive. Plus, there is also the issue of being able to honor all the monsters prior to attack.

    In Magincia, I was able to honor almost everything I killed, so again rarely ever ran out of mana as most were 1 shot kills. The tougher creatures I was able to leech enough to keep mana up long enough to kill them off, at which time I'd be put back to full mana. In a worst case scenario there, I'd just switch to an imp or something else that was a one shotter, honor it, get the mana from the shot and go back to what I was fighting. The only Peerless I run the archer on is Mel and Dreadhorn. I haven't run Shimmering Effusion or Parxoy yet, but know that for Paroxy I would most certainly use my meleer. Travesty I use my tamer.


    4) How high is your mana regn from items? That used to work for me prior to the nerf but not anymore

    I've got 6 mana regen, it's not much, but it helps to fill in the gaps. Mana leech is a must have for any bow that I use, so you'll rarely see me without it.


    The last question is not really on mana concerns but more on your HCI. Do you have high HCI on your template since you are spamming LS mostly?

    Yes, I've got 30 HCI for those rare instance when I am out of mana. You've got to keep hitting to keep Perfection up, and to leech, so it's a must have for me. DCI not so much. My only DCI is from the Quiver of Infinity. My archer doesn't intend on getting hit too much. [​IMG]
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    2) Do you use a slayer on all your bows for the extra damage, and thus the higher leech? If so, do you have problems with mana when fighting peerless, as no slayer properties work on them.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Since when don't slayers won't Peerless? My pixie swatter works quite well on Mel.
     
  21. smile

    smile Guest

    Thanks Connor! I'm sure many others besides myself will benefit from the information!

    As for the info on pixie swatter... wow, didn't know that! Thanks for info too. Too bad fey slayers ain't available on bows at the present moment
     
  22. I'm actually helping zigzag rewrite the Archery information on Stratics, and will be including most of this hard earned information in the rewrite, so be looking for updated information on the main Stratics site soon!
     
  23. it depends much on the slayer weapon you find, repating crossbow it's clearly one of the worst because it's low damage... but it still have double strike that is good if you have a lot of mana (and you are human). Bushido it's good if you solo monsters: in a party just one template can honor the monster...

    however imo bushido should be only for meleers: first because the archer bushido has too many advantages (the balance of this game shoud be revisited). Second for estetic reasons... Have you ever see a samurai archer? In this game it's the most popolar... i think i said all...
     
  24. "first because the archer bushido has too many advantages"

    A meleer has more advantages from Bushido than an Archer does as they can take advantage of ALL of the defensive &amp; offensive moves, while Archers are left being purely offense, with no defensive capabilities at all. It's an even trade off.
     
  25. yes, but a pure archer as advantages on a pure meleer due to its damage modifier (quiver) and ranged attack. An archer can use a better offensive suit due he doesn't need dci and defense at all.

    the advantage that a meleer has using bushido is very little, the most usefull things are honor, confidence and lighting attack which are used also by an archer. This litlte advantage of increased defense is more than compensate by archer's overall advantages, considering also that he don't need defensive bonuses/moves since he isn't in melee.

    So (for estetic and historic reasons too) i suggest developers to disable bushido for an archer.
     
  26. "the advantage that a meleer has using bushido is very little"

    You're kidding right? Evasion, Counter Strike? You don't use them?

    You might want to go and do some reading on the Samurai forum. Bushido is a MASSIVE boost for a meleer, which I can attest to after adding it to my meleer. A well set up meleer with Bushido can solo anything in the game, including the Peerless &amp; Doom bosses. Archer's can't.
     
  27. Did i say that? You missed the rest of the discourse: i was simply sayng that bushido meleers have little advantages on an archer, not overall, but compared with archer's mode of play.
    The matter isn't about bushido/meleers overall defensive capacity and its utility.

    maybe i can explain it better: the archer simply doesn't need that bushido's special moves you refer at because he isn't challenged in melee combat.
    Imo you can't judge a template simply by the way it can solo monsters... just think at doom (in these days) for istance. However uo is a group game, indeed, team work is an important part of the story. The archer has many boosts in this, to not mention the pvp (where archer is what it is...)

    anyway there are monsters that the archer can solo much quicker than meleer even with bushido. (both with decent resistances of course)

    And i can't still remeber any bushido-archer, maybe archer-ninja should be more realistic, don't you think?
     
  28. "And i can't still remeber any bushido-archer"

    Japanese Samurai's were using Yumi's centuries ago.


    "i was simply sayng that bushido meleers have little advantages on an archer"

    The ONLY advantage archers have is range. That's it. That advantage was also taken down a few notches with the new "teleporting monsters do more damage to ranged attackers" change.


    "the archer simply doesn't need that bushido's special moves you refer at because he isn't challenged in melee combat."

    You ever take on a paragon Balron? Or paragon Dragon? Or any of the other high end paragons? They're all over an archer. If archers could have the ability to use evasion and counter strike they'd be nigh unstoppable, but since they can't have Parry, they only have offense with no defense, while a meleer gets ALL the benefits out of Bushido, as they have the advantage of having defense, archers are still stuck with their only defense being running away.



    "Imo you can't judge a template simply by the way it can solo monsters"

    If you're going to compare template to template yes, you can. A Bushido meleer can take on anything in the game, a Bushido archer can't. That pretty much shows that meleer's have the advantage over archers, since they can do things that archers can only dream of.
     
  29. ok, you wrote down good reasons too, but overall i'm still of the opinion that samurai-archer should be banned because adds unecessary boosters to the archer.

    ah and i don't think that samurai using yumi has "legendary KENDO samurai" wrote on the paperdoll :-D :)

    ps: just one serious thing, i believe that a template should choose just ONE school of magic: a warrior should choose chivalry or bushido, so a mage should. And chivarly should give a booster to chiv spell at high level chiv skill, making chiv 120 less useless... so the game would be more balanced, more class oriented and imo more funny... actually one template can have 3-4 classes in, that's not roleplayng...
     
  30. "ah and i don't think that samurai using yumi has "legendary KENDO samurai" wrote on the paperdoll :-D :)"

    Actually, Samurai were masters of multiple weapons, with it not being uncommon for one person to be a master in 10 or more weapons. Samurai were all adept at firing Yumi not only from the ground, but mounted as well, and able to hit an apple from a full gallup, even with those massive bows.


    "overall i'm still of the opinion that samurai-archer should be banned because adds unecessary boosters to the archer."

    What would you consider to be unnecessary? Archers get no more boost from Bushido than any other warrior class, so all things considered, archers actually get the short end of the stick from it as they can only use 2 spells, yet have to invest 100 or more skill points to be able to use them effectively (I actually invested 120 myself). Archers are also the only warrior class that get nailed from teleporting monsters, so their only bonus to being ranged attackers was also cut down in effectiveness. Getting Evil Omen teleport damage from a Dark Father is pretty dang nasty, I tell ya.


    "so the game would be more balanced, more class oriented and imo more funny... actually one template can have 3-4 classes in, that's not roleplayng... "

    Ah, but we're not talking about roleplaying, we're talking about UO, who's only edge over ALL of the competition is it's freedom of skill choices, with no real classes involved. If you want to be a warrior/chef, and bake delicious pies after beating on monsters all day, then you can. Changing that would be changing UO, and would not be a good thing for the game overall.
     
  31. <blockquote><hr>

    "Ah, but we're not talking about roleplaying, we're talking about UO, who's only edge over ALL of the competition is it's freedom of skill choices, with no real classes involved. If you want to be a warrior/chef, and bake delicious pies after beating on monsters all day, then you can. Changing that would be changing UO, and would not be a good thing for the game overall.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Again there is maybe a misunderstanding: i don't disagree with freedom of skill choices in uo, doing a warrior/chef or whatever else is funny. The problem is when one template choose to embrace more schools of magic that were made to be played alone. When the majority of templates is paladin-samurai, that's something wrong and imo it hasn't been fixed just for lobbying reasons, if you look at professions forums, many are complaing about the weakness of its templates, hoping in a tweak. There are a very few people saying that their template it's too storng... developers are interested in making the game more and more easy to attract players (imo they are wrong in this, i'll be more happy to play aa less simple game)... particulary after the arrive of EA... and uo changed from the non magical items to the crimson cinture.....

    Bushido = defense, CHIVALRY (edit) = offense, they are clearly alternative If the game was balanced you wont see all the warriors having bushido and chivalry (70 at max beacause more is useless...), you wont see 2-3 templates which are far the best in the game. That's not fun, that's optimizing your template to get the most advantages you can...

    for these reasons imo uo would be better if a template could choose just one school of magic.

    It's not just a matter of roleplaying (but uo was a roleplay at the beginning, and roleplaying doesn't means you can't choose the skills, it means that you have to choose and there isn't a few best choices) it's a matter of balance, imo a game it's more funny when it is balanced because there would be more difficult choices, more tradeoff. Actually there are some tradeoff but, there shoul/could be many, because that's one of the more funny aspects of uo.
     
  32. i simply wanted to write down bushido = defense, chivalry = offense ...
     
  33. imported_GFY

    imported_GFY Guest

    If you want to humble your samouri archer go to Illish and attack a paragon Lich Lord or 2.

    Go to the Samouri page and read about Bagdaddy's exploits vs peerless. Then hop on a Samouri Archer and try to do the same thing.

    In history shields were used by foot soldiers to defend against archers. Maybe UO needs to look into making shields actually useful vs archers. IMHO a person that knows how to use a shield (GM or better parry) should make an archer almost useless.
     
  34. nice idea, infact also the pure warrior is disappeared thanks to bushido... still can't understand why one could parry more without shield : [​IMG])
    In that way the warrior could be more popular and the archer less dominating pvp...
     
  35. "In that way the warrior could be more popular and the archer less dominating pvp... "

    The reason you see more archers in PvP is simply that they're easier to play &amp; equip in that playstyle. PvP &amp; PvM are 2 whole different ballgames. The way to tell a GOOD archer is when you see one taking on things that normally only a well played meleer can take.
     
  36. imported_GFY

    imported_GFY Guest

    True Connor but I'm a bit more into pvp then you are. I've seen a GOOD pvper run in with a Dog archer (bush and samouri on the same template for specials) and take on and defeat 3-4 pvpers that knew what they were doing in pvp. Granted this was before the disarm rule change but it was very impressive to ME!
     
  37. Hell, that's impressive to me too. [​IMG]
     
  38. Balian

    Balian Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    In history shields were used by foot soldiers to defend against archers. Maybe UO needs to look into making shields actually useful vs archers. IMHO a person that knows how to use a shield (GM or better parry) should make an archer almost useless.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It has already happened. and what baffles me is Mages with shields and DCI are almost nigh impossible to hit. I wonder (because I dont play any mages) what their templates are to get such HIGH bonuses for defense against archers (Legendary archers with MAX HCI and VERY high HLD) wrestle/parry + 65 DCI with fey/AOF/invul shield?
     
  39. Try using the Mace &amp; Shield glasses along with HLD on a bow, that will allow for 2 chances per hit for it to go off, and once it does, their DCI is shot. A mage uses parry &amp; max DCI. That's pretty much their only defense.





    Oh, that and wearing a quiver... [​IMG]

    *runs away laughing maniacally*
     
  40. Balian

    Balian Guest

    Ty Conner,

    This is the funny part, I do use M&amp;S and all my best bows have &gt; minimum 40 HLD up to 46 HLD, so I am always running with about 70-76% HLD
    I still cant hit them, and the other higher end archers out there, I do see that they have HLD and spirit of the totem, so thats it for their HLD, whatever they have on wep, I also notice that the ring is the only piece I cannot see on some of the ones that irk me. Other than the X factor on the ring, they wear MR/St inc armour, not HOL and FEY legs, so they run with zero DCI, I cannot hit them either and they walk up and 2 hit conc me to OOoOoOO even tho I am wearing 42 DCI ???????????

    This is a bit of a vent, because EA has offered me no response and I really am wondering if wearing DCI is useless, because if it is useless, I'd rather wear some mr/st inc armour to bring up my ssi a bit.

    TY
     
  41. Death Adder

    Death Adder Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Ty Conner,

    This is the funny part, I do use M&amp;S and all my best bows have &gt; minimum 40 HLD up to 46 HLD, so I am always running with about 70-76% HLD
    I still cant hit them, and the other higher end archers out there, I do see that they have HLD and spirit of the totem, so thats it for their HLD, whatever they have on wep, I also notice that the ring is the only piece I cannot see on some of the ones that irk me. Other than the X factor on the ring, they wear MR/St inc armour, not HOL and FEY legs, so they run with zero DCI, I cannot hit them either and they walk up and 2 hit conc me to OOoOoOO even tho I am wearing 42 DCI ???????????

    This is a bit of a vent, because EA has offered me no response and I really am wondering if wearing DCI is useless, because if it is useless, I'd rather wear some mr/st inc armour to bring up my ssi a bit.

    TY

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I've run extensive tests on HCI/DCI, and HLD/HLA and I can tell you that they do work as advertised -- that is, they do affect the hit chance, and they do so by the expected amount. HLD lasts 8 seconds, the duration will reset if HLD activates again (so the duration can be effectively forever, if the RNG is favorable), and it reduces DCI by 25. While the effects of HCI/DCI are capped at 45, one can take his DCI above that because the -25 HLD penalty is applied to the real value, not the capped value. My PvP archer runs at 65 DCI so as to still retain 40 DCI once I'm affected by HLD (which, as any PvPer knows, is quite frequently if not all the time). I achieve the 65 HLD by wearing the Fey Legs (20), Heart of the Lion (15), Quiver (5), Brace (13), Ring (12), if anyone wonders. It's difficult to run with that much and still have the other mods you need (for the PvP archer, mainly HCI, DI, LMC and stats), but if you can, it is immensely helpful.
     
  42. Tark_Smash

    Tark_Smash Guest

    You dont even get 100% lightning strike until 90 bushido.
     
  43. imported_GFY

    imported_GFY Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Ty Conner,

    This is the funny part, I do use M&amp;S and all my best bows have &gt; minimum 40 HLD up to 46 HLD, so I am always running with about 70-76% HLD
    I still cant hit them, and the other higher end archers out there, I do see that they have HLD and spirit of the totem, so thats it for their HLD, whatever they have on wep, I also notice that the ring is the only piece I cannot see on some of the ones that irk me. Other than the X factor on the ring, they wear MR/St inc armour, not HOL and FEY legs, so they run with zero DCI, I cannot hit them either and they walk up and 2 hit conc me to OOoOoOO even tho I am wearing 42 DCI ???????????

    This is a bit of a vent, because EA has offered me no response and I really am wondering if wearing DCI is useless, because if it is useless, I'd rather wear some mr/st inc armour to bring up my ssi a bit.

    TY

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I pretty much gave up on my ABC archer in PVP until I finish tweeking out my archer. (I chased a guy that was red lined around Yew gate and missed him 12 straight times!)

    If you want to fight pvper that knows what their doing and are all tweeked out you NEED 45 HCI plus 120 in your archery skill. Mage templates are running around with 120 wrestling as their defensive skill and 60 or more DCI in cast they get hit for HLD. If you add parry and a shield to the mix their almost impossible to hit.

    The only good thing for us poor archers is they need 80+ dex for max blocking with the shield. This drops their mana pool a bit but it's not much of a comfort if you can't hit the target!
     
  44. Death Adder

    Death Adder Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Ty Conner,

    This is the funny part, I do use M&amp;S and all my best bows have &gt; minimum 40 HLD up to 46 HLD, so I am always running with about 70-76% HLD
    I still cant hit them, and the other higher end archers out there, I do see that they have HLD and spirit of the totem, so thats it for their HLD, whatever they have on wep, I also notice that the ring is the only piece I cannot see on some of the ones that irk me. Other than the X factor on the ring, they wear MR/St inc armour, not HOL and FEY legs, so they run with zero DCI, I cannot hit them either and they walk up and 2 hit conc me to OOoOoOO even tho I am wearing 42 DCI ???????????

    This is a bit of a vent, because EA has offered me no response and I really am wondering if wearing DCI is useless, because if it is useless, I'd rather wear some mr/st inc armour to bring up my ssi a bit.

    TY

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I pretty much gave up on my ABC archer in PVP until I finish tweeking out my archer. (I chased a guy that was red lined around Yew gate and missed him 12 straight times!)

    If you want to fight pvper that knows what their doing and are all tweeked out you NEED 45 HCI plus 120 in your archery skill. Mage templates are running around with 120 wrestling as their defensive skill and 60 or more DCI in cast they get hit for HLD. If you add parry and a shield to the mix their almost impossible to hit.

    The only good thing for us poor archers is they need 80+ dex for max blocking with the shield. This drops their mana pool a bit but it's not much of a comfort if you can't hit the target!

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Winning with a dexxer has always been about waiting until the RNG gifts you with a string of hits. This string will always occur... the target's defenses only dictate how long it will take.

    This type of argument can also be applied to Disarm. I fought a nox-mage-fencer the other day who kept Disarming me (I was on my necro-archer), despite my 65 DCI. I just hung in there, waiting for his eventual string of whiffs to give me an opening. Finally got one and killed him with 2 consecutive Concussions (from a 100% fire/poison x-bow, while he was Corpse Skinned).

    Note that Disarm is still overpowered... it's only balanced in 1v1.
     
  45. <blockquote><hr>


    The only good thing for us poor archers is they need 80+ dex for max blocking with the shield. This drops their mana pool a bit but it's not much of a comfort if you can't hit the target!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This is why they have dex pots. They just chug one when they fight a meleers. So they only need 60 dex.
     
  46. eolsunder1

    eolsunder1 Guest

    150 stamina (1.25 second bonus)

    3 speed bow drops to 1.75
    4 second bow drops to 2.75
    5 second bow drops to 3.75

    even at 150 stamina, your magical shortbow won't reach max ssi, you are still 2 tick off. Divine fury might help alot, but its best to have good ssi on ANY bow because you will lose stamina in combat and its best to keep your swing speed up at all costs.