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What's With Disparity in Quality Between Dungeon and Treasure Chest Loot?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Tina Small, Oct 28, 2014.

  1. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    This evening I used one of my treasure hunters that is still very much in training to do a plainly drawn Ter Mur treasure map and then to pick and loot some Vesper bank and some static and spawning dungeon chests. I feel compelled to post the results of both activities, because they seem so out of whack with each other!

    The treasure hunter I used only has 75.1 cartography and 83.1 lockpicking skill. Her suit has a whopping (j/k) 895 luck on it. She was not under the influence of a luck statue at all this evening.

    From the level 1 treasure chest in Ter Mur (and maybe from one leather wolf killed before digging up the chest), she retrieved 35 items. Every single item, other than a wand, was a "minor magic" item. Of those 35 items, 27 unravelled into 107 magical residue and 8 unravelled into 12 enchanted essence.

    Next, without logging out first, my t-hunter opened all the chests on the west side of the Vesper bank and looted them. Then she opened and looted all the chests in the Yew crypts, both sides. Then she opened and looted the 4 or maybe 5 "spawning" chests in Destard and all of the "static" chests against the wall, since those now contain magical items (no gold still). She walked away from that trip with 30 items. There was a variety of greater magic, lesser magic, and minor magic items in her bag, but I forgot to tally them up by category. Of those 30 items, 5 unraveled to 19 magical residue; 22 unraveled to 41 enchanted essence; and 3 unraveled to 5 relic fragments.

    I will be tracking the results of more maps and dungeon forays with this character. Maybe it was just a fluke to get these drastically different results. But then again, maybe it's deliberate. Obviously, more results are needed, so maybe some additional people interested in this issue can run the same experiment and post what they are finding.

    Edited above to add that one item in the level 1 Ter Mur map was a spell channeling wand.

    Edited to add the following:

    Results of a level 1 Malas map, same character as above and same luck amount on suit: 1 spell channeling wand; 4 lesser magic items; 27 minor magic items (32 items total). Yield: 18 items unraveled to 68 magical residue; 14 items unraveled to 23 enchanted essence.

    Results of a level 1 Trammel map, same character as above and same luck amount on suit: 0 wands; 1 lesser magic item; 31 minor magic items (32 items total). Yield: 20 items unraveled to 74 magical residue; 12 items unraveled to 17 enchanted essence.

    Results of a level 2 Malas map, same character as above and same luck amount on suit: 3 wands; 15 lesser magic items; 25 minor magic items (40 items total). Yield: 21 items unraveled to 86 magical residue; 19 items unraveled to 27 enchanted essence.

    Results of another run through (Tuesday a.m., same character, same luck) of Vesper bank, Yew crypts, Destard chests until 40 items were collected (same # of items as a level 2 t-map) and lockpicking is now at 83.6: 7 wands; 2 greater magic items; 20 lesser magic items; 11 minor magic items (40 items total). Yield: 13 items unraveled to 42 magical residue; 26 items unraveled to 47 enchanted essence; 1 item unraveled to 1 relic fragment.

    Another level 2 Malas map (Tuesday a.m., same character, same luck): 4 wands, 8 lesser magic items, 28 minor magic items (40 items total). Yield: 23 items unraveled to 83 magical residue; 17 items unraveled to 25 enchanted essence.
     
    #1 Tina Small, Oct 28, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2014
  2. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Not certain what you feel is the "Disparity" ? Are you talking about "Reward" vs "Effort Spent" ? Or maybe I'm missing something.....:cool:

    Did you get Minor items out of level 1 treasure chests prior to the loot revamp?
     
  3. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    They do roll luck differently, dungeon chests:
    • Loot obtained from Dungeon Chests and Khaldun Puzzle Chests will have loot influenced with a random luck value between 0 and 240.
    So you would imagine that treasure chest loot would be higher... so that's weird.
     
  4. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    The only place you could find "minor magic" items before the loot revamp were Shame, Covetous, and Wrong dungeons and the random loot that spawned on the ground to be picked up for Honesty virtue gains.

    The point I'm trying to make is that it seems like the loot revamp didn't help treasure chest loot at all. It's still terrible. But considering how much "luck" is involved in getting a map to begin with, decoding the map, locating the hidden chest, and killing the guardian spawn, it seems like the loot should at least be on par with loot obtained from short-lived bank/dungeon chests that the same character is able to open with lockpicking skill only and often with no significant guardian spawn.

    I suppose what will happen now that I've pointed this out is that the dungeon chest loot will be nerfed to the point no one wants to collect it either and/or we'll be told that the other items that might spawn in treasure chests and the cleanup system points for completed maps are meant to compensate for the lackluster loot.

    :rolleyes:
     
  5. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Ok, I hear what you're saying - but I have a friend who does tmaps almost daily, and he thinks the new loot is much better... that's all...
     
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  6. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Hah... well that's not a very high bar now is it? The loot before was 100% useless. Now it's only 99%... since you can unravel it for some better imbuing stuff. :p

    Really though I don't tmap, but I have heard very little talk about it being at all worth doing. No artifact level, few greaters even on level 7. Could be wrong, they did just up I think, maybe it's better now.
     
  7. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    Per my stream yesterday, and the fact that I have done a lot of tmaps recently... tmap loot from lvl 5-6's isn't worth the effort. I get better drops from the mobs that spawn who guard the chest.
     
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  8. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Well, from another t-mapper, I have to say your friend is exxceptionally blessed. Cause in my experience (and I've said it before) the loot is still the same ole sucky crap, it just has an added line of description. And my partner and I do 6' and 7s, not 1s. It's a joke, we t-hunters were really excited when we heard loot revamp, we didnt realize it wasnt a vamp, but rather a loot relabeling...
     
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  9. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    100 percent of loot being worthless to chance at legendary item or clean overcapped single mod?
    sounds like a boost to me.

    Im pretty sure the devs reasoning on the level of the loot was:
    there are already spawned mobs associated with the chest
    theres chance at arty / orb / pardon drop
    additional loot is just an extra perk.

    if you do 100 maps im pretty sure there will be a useable item of at least some level.
    i dont see why it matters what it unravels into as that has nothing to do with the value of an item.
    a single mod 5 stam or 10 ssi unravels into worthless majical residue...

    keep in mind, with any loot i wouldnt make any judgement until youve looked at a few thousand items per mob / loot type.
     
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  10. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    I think they need to come out with a 120 cart/picking scroll. Bump maps to level 7-12 and make 12's insanely rare and even more insanely hard to do. Loot needs to be addressed with these bc I think this aspect of game play has more potential than most things there working on. Who doesn't like to look for treasure? The way it is now they need to rename it to Junk Hunting...
     
  11. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    No more PS, puhlease. Just fix what the heck is already ingame
     
  12. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    No more PS? 120 skills have been here for what 10 years? Time for a revamp
     
  13. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I feel like treasure chests should have loot rolls at least as good as a mini boss like miasma. More items, and/or little boosts per level. I mean really, I can sit an kill miasmas all day any time I want to, a t-hunter has to find a map, track it down, unlock it, disarm it, on and on...

    It would hardly be imbalanced, and would increase the fun for t-map hunters.
     
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  14. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    When T hunting more after the other stuff that spawns in the chest besides gear. If I want to take to go after great gear chances. There are some lizardmen at wrong that like to build up my leather supplies. What maps overflow the map table get turned in for trash or library points. With the time limit on the doom event vs limited play time. Takes up my time for now.

    But ya it seems the risk vs reward seems really out of balance. Lately it has been about filling the sosaria trash cans more then unravel hunting. Fsihing really does the points the best. With doom being priority now my imbue bait keg is about filled and getting plenty of loot to unravel as a side effect of looking.

    The risk vs reward is unbalanced. But there is at least change. Now updating the BoD reward list would seem higher up the list. Hunt smarter, not harder. There is a better place to achieve your goals? Then go there. Asking for the code to be monkeyed around with gets a wrench in the gears.
     
  15. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Noticed this as well. Did 5 Lvl 6, 3 Lvl 5, 3 Lvl 3, 5 Lvl 2 and 10 Lvl 1 T-Maps last night with 2,100 Luck on my T-Hunter, and the chest loot was junk, didn't see a single piece that was Major Magic or better. Only things even worth glancing at was the Jewelry, just to find pieces with 5-10% SSI to imbue up.
    Funny thing is, i also did about 8 SoS on my Fisher with 0 Luck, and was getting better loot from those than from even the Lvl 6 T-Chests.
     
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  16. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Yeah, I started a spreadsheet to keep track of the results of digging up chests and have started using my t-hunters on some other shards so I can try some slightly more difficult chests (3s and 4s so far) and also see what happens with wearing different amounts of luck. Out of the 5 chests I mentioned above and the 8 I did today and not counting anything that came from the chest spawn, I only kept one piece of jewelry (i.e., 1 piece out of 533 total pieces in 13 chests). Everything else I unraveled for a total now of 1089 magical residue, 408 enchanted essence, and 4 relic fragments. The one piece I kept was a bracelet with dex 7, luck 50, and ssi 5%, so not even something "clean" but at least the properties aren't in an unusable, wasteful combination.

    I'll send Kyronix a link for the spreadsheet in another week or so if I don't get bored doing this and he can do whatever he wants with the information.
     
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  17. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
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    Did many level 6 Fel maps with 2000 luck + 1000 Fel luck bonus.
    So far, loot was only trash. Not a single item tagged as artifact, and few major or greater magic items among the loot.
    So, pretty much just trash.
     
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  18. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Everything with treasure chest loot is just fine. I've been told this in three different threads now. :yell:

    :gun:
     
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  19. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
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    They could cut the amount of loot items in half and double the intensity. Then perhaps we would be able to find something worthwhile in those bloody chests.
     
  20. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    I watched thus and it was all crap...
     
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  21. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Certifiable

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    I agree. I was looking forward to "better" loot in the treasure chests as well. My T-Hunter has over 2k luck (without statue or Fel bonus), and I have noticed NO difference in the quality of the items. I will say though, I have gotten several nice pieces from the guardians from Lvl 5 and up chests :). So it is better in that regard.
     
  22. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Yeah, I don't get why they seem to be so hesitant to have good items drop in chests. Good items drop on many very easy to kill monsters. Having the average chest produce an arti or two is not going to make any difference.
     
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  23. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    Dungeon chest loot is absolutely terrible. Especially on Siege, there's 0 felucca luck factored in, not 1000 like advertised. Give us our 1000 luck and double resources !!
     
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  24. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    I would have to find it, but I thought all chest loot was based on random luck from 0 to 240. I don't think the loot of the pickpocket/treasure hunter matters. That probably should be changed.
     
  25. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I've been digging up treasure chests on a couple of shards for the last week and putting the relevant information about the character that dug it up, date, time, coordinates, and what was actually in the chest in a Google spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nUtUXQjfphbZ69tAMQ0wNp3tvsRXgtE5VwA0P_3ryhw/edit?usp=sharing . I'll be adding more info as time permits. Note that the only item I counted from the spawn monsters was gold, although I think there may be 3 or 4 of the first couple level 4 chests I did that I stuck one, two or three items from mobs in the wrong bag. Still not sure if those consistently spawn with 56 jewelry/weapon/armor items in them.
     
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  26. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Exactly what I've been preaching. Especially with lvl 6 and 7, this is BS.
    Keep up the good work Tina, thanks for your efforts.
    Solid facts are hard to dispute, in spite of some thinking t-chest loot is fine.
     
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  27. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    What bothers me a bit, is that after a week of this thread, none of the powers-that-be have lowered themselves to coming here and filling us in. Either a "that's all you're gonna get" or a "we're fixing that".

    Just acknowledge us, and let us know if we need to go ahead and stone off the skills.
     
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  28. MrMightySmith

    MrMightySmith Journeyman
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    Everytime the Devs say there bumping up the loot on treasure chests it almost always turns out to be a pretty much worthless bump. I think when coding the loot for the chests is the fact that there are so many items in a chest that if the range was bumped to high there would be way to many good items spawning. No one is asking for every-map to have awesome stuff in it but at the same time at-least let there be a freaking chance for a sweet legendary artifact item in a level 7 chance. Hell put a rare drop in the treasure maps that could be anything. Thats the thing there missing about treasure maps is that a player should atleast be suprised occasionally when doing them.
     
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  29. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Have finally finished digging up over 100 level 1 thru level 4 chests on several different shards, both in Trammel and Felucca, with treasure hunters of varying abilities and with varying amounts of luck.

    Out of 3,657 items retrieved from the chests (i.e., EVERYTHING in the chests), I only kept 9. That is less than 0.25% of the items!

    If you want to see what I decided to keep and other interesting statistics about these chests, the Google spreadsheet is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nUtUXQjfphbZ69tAMQ0wNp3tvsRXgtE5VwA0P_3ryhw/edit?usp=sharing . I will keep adding info to it, for the time being.

    The sheet shows these fields: Date, Time, Shard, Map Level, Facet, Coordinates; T-Hunter's Luck, Lockpicking Skill and Cartography Skill; gold collected from chest and the monsters that spawned with it; number of jewelry, armor, and weapon items that spawned in the chest; number of items that spawned in the chest that were not jewelry, armor, or weapons; number of spell channeling mage weapon wands in the chest; separate numbers for non-cursed and cursed minor magic, lesser magic, greater magic, major magic, or artifact-level items in the chest; number of items from the chest that I saved and didn't unravel and a description of such items; number of imbuing ingredients obtained from unraveling chest contents; number and type of recipe scrolls in the chest; number and type of alacrity scrolls in the chest; number and level of treasure maps in the chest itself (did not list any obtained from spawn); number of SoS and Ancient SoS from the chest; number and type of any essences or abyssal cloth contained in the chest; number of tasty treats, skeleton keys, or creeping vines in the chest; number and type of any refinement components in the chest; pertinent comments (e.g., # of items destroyed with failed lockpicking attempts or lost to a speedy grubber or chests with unusually high number of 50-stone items).

    The primary sort for the sheet is the level of the chest, followed by the amount of luck and then the date and time (oldest to most recent).
     
  30. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Certifiable

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    Thank you for all the hard work putting the numbers together. I agree that treasure chest loot QUALITY should be inproved!!
     
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  31. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    i wouldnt even bother doing those unless you have 3k luck. that level of loot is extremely bad its like killing mongbats or trolls or ettins. which, can actually be good things to kill if you have max luck but otherwise not worth it.

    id stick to level 7 maps with max luck for the best loot. the devs took the time to revamp treasure hunting, we arent really supposed to be farming low chests anymore. theres no reason to either. cartography and lockpicking can be trained entirely at the bank, perhaps the devs didnt want the large numbers of items in chests to easily yield quality items.
     
  32. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Wow.
     
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  33. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    I'll second what Keith said and give you a hearty thanks for all your work. With all the thousands of items you've collected, it's definitely no "gut feeling" that the loot is terrible, and players shouldn't have to "farm" only the very top to start getting decent items once in a while.
     
  34. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    I think 1-3 chests should be low chance to get anything high..but level 4-7 you should have a significantly higher chance to get loot bump especially 6 and 7 when you are getting way better loot off the spawn then...something is not right especially the amount of skill you have to put in to decode find/dig up open and then fight the spawn!
     
  35. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I could just be imagining this, however it seems like the loot I've gotten on Origin in the last couple of hours from level 3 chests is looking more attractive. Seeing more pieces with SSI, MR, and stamina increase and not necessarily all "antique" items either. Will try later to compare level 3 chests on another shard with a character that has a little more luck later today. Wondering if maybe because this is Origin, it might be possible that Kyronix was able to do a little tweaking? If so, I'd say it's much appreciated that he would do that on a Sunday evening!
     
  36. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    The devs DIDN'T take time to revamp the loot, that is the problem! It's the same ole ****, just has the fancy new names on it.

    And to be honest, I haven't seen much difference between 1800 luck and 2800 luck, not in the chest anyway. It does everywhere else, for sure, but I dont see it in the chest. People farm Shame and pull 3 or more artis off their kills, and you want me to believe the devs were afraid a tchest would flood the world with good items? gimme a break...
     
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  37. BeaIank

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    I am getting way better stuff killing Dark Guardians, which are pathetically weak, than anything I've got doing level 6 and 7 Fel T-maps with 3K luck.
    This is wrong.
     
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  38. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Tina, thank you for all your work investigating and charting this. It looks like we won't be graced with any kinds of reply on whether there will be more done to loot upgrade or not. And that is what makes this so hard to swallow, I could take a Hell no! Kiss my arse...those would be better than being ignored :yell:
     
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