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Discussion in 'UO Tamer' started by Kiljaedon, Sep 27, 2009.
I will just go on and say it. Tamers need balancing since 80% of all UO are tamers.
Wake up from your dream.
Have you played SA yet? My tamer is collecting dust. Dexxers are the new tamer.
Where is your evidence?
Just because 80% of people HAVE tamers doesn't mean they play them.
I play a tamer, but I also have a samurai and an bush archer. Guess who I bring to Cavern of Discarded? My Samurai, because a tamer is useless. Why single target a rat for less damage when I can multi target whirlwind many rats for 30-40 more damage than my NERFED GD.
BTW, before you go saying my GD is lame, she has 926hp, 658 str 655 dex 84/88/55/55/69 and is legendary wrestling.
BEFORE the nerf, she would hit for the same as my samurai, NOW she hits for maybe 40-60. Oh and is MUCH slower.
Just another example, is a mage in Navrey's area was killing Navrey in 5 ebolts. With my GD and a arachnid slayer spellbook, it was taking me nearly 3 times as many ebolts.
I don't disagree that certain aspects of certain pets need a little tweak (re: dread war horse), but as a whole, my necro-mages and my archers are much more efficient than my tamers in most situations.
So what, in your opinion (to the OP) needs the balance?
I'm sure many players also have a mage, warrior, crafter. Do they automatically need a balance because there are many of them? I doubt it.
I won't say that taming is 100% balanced IMO because I think we need more change, but simply saying there are a lot of tamers = they're unbalanced is over simplistic.
Haven't played a tamer since SA was released. Pets are useless at Slasher, Medusa, and Stygian Dragon. Any non-mountable pet is too much of a nuisance to drag through the Abyss.
Archers and mages are the way to go atm.
Ugg. I posted this while I was in a drunken stupor. I normally do not strive to be a cause for a troll post. Good to see though all of the replies were thought out even at this hinted nerf tamers post. I do not really see much wrong with tamers. I think I was just having issues finding a high level focus the night I posted this.
I can't find any tamers for pet rezzes now.
Slightly of topic,
What does need tweeking is the NPC vets.
Charging 12k to res a fire beetle is silly!
I liked the idea of it but i think it needs to be tweaked so it takes into account the taming required to control the pet...not just the taming required.
Use the NPC vets. I don't rez dead pets anymore on my tamer unless I know the person or they ask really nicely.
Seriously though, there are fewer tamers around now, and the reason is that they have received a lot of direct nerfs, indirect nerfs, and indirect nerfs in the form of buffs to non-tamers. Some of the highlights:
The GD nerf, of course.
New peerlesses are geared away from tamers.
Most of the new content that isn't peerless is either champ spawn or mini-champ spawn, and that means AoE. Taming is not an AoE skill (although AoE can be added to tamers, of course).
Imbuing weights are VERY heavily biased against taming-related mods. Skills & FC are 1.4x, FCR is 1.2x. By comparison, SDI, DI, SI, HPI, and most of the important weapon mods are all either 1.0x or 1.1x. I've made some awesome stuff for my sampire so far with imbuing, but nothing really even worth mentioning for my tamer.
New low-level taming pets are actually pretty good. This is an indirect nerf because it means that anyone, with little to no taming on their template, can be running around with a pet that augments the power of the rest of their template. The only reason you'd go full tamer now is if you really want to rely on that GD.
NPC Vets. While these could also be seen as a buff to the PvP tamer, I don't think that was the intention. I think, rather, that these were introduced along with the strong low to mid level pets to encourage people to use sparing amounts of taming in other templates, rather than go full on tamer.
No new taming artifacts. I have yet to see a single new artifact that in any way is useful to tamers.
Etc., etc. Not complaining...I'm having fun with my new mystic and my newly-regeared sampire (who, thanks to imbuing, received a massive DPS & survivability buff), but this expansion was a huge hit to the tamer, largely in ways that are far less obvious than the GD nerf (which was honestly probably the least important of those things mentioned above).
Hmm. I really do not even rely on vetting anymore. I use spellweaving all the way to replace what vetting was once used for. The renewal spell with a level 6 focus and self revive ability you can place on pets really nullify the need for vetting. I can just keep the renewal spell itself going when I take on greater drags and just general farming. I keep vetting on an alt account for when I do need to res in pvp I use my alt account with vetting.
Umm ... I have something of about 12-16 (semi-)developed chars on two shards. One is a tamer and an other one is going to become one. 2 are fishers and 2 are miners.
80% of 7 chars are 5.6. So you are assuming that most players have at least 5 tamers per account (of those that have upgraded to 7 chars)?
I completely agree, which is one of the reasons why I make such an effort to argue the side of tamers when I see tamer hate threads. I've said this before, I'll say it again. I think the greater dragon is probably the single worst thing to happen to the taming profession in the history of the game.
Ever since the advent of the greater dragon the devs have bent over backwards to make sure that tamers are virtually useless in all of the new high end content contexts.
Greater dragons were the pet that was supposed to allow tamers to access "end game" content. But they made them too easy to tame, and too easy to control, and as a result they've dominated mid level content to such an extent that everyone thinks they are over powered (which they are for mid level content).
And the response of the devs has been to ensure that they are useless in every high level context, while they still dominate every mid level context, and in the process the pets that used to be somewhat useful in high end contexts, rune beetles specifically, have also been completely shut out of all the content that was designed specifically to exclude greater dragons.
Donno about the GD dominating mid level content.
It is WAY WAY WAAAAY more efficient for me to bring my samurai to a spawn and whirlwind away, than it is to bring a GD on my tamer and constantly have to say "all kill".
Lets not even get into commands. I mean has anyone else just sat and watched small things swarm around your GD and attack it while it just sat there? Not doing anything? . . .
Honestly the AI for the pets is just bad. There are NO AoE pets, which make mid level content dominated by builds who utilize AoE (See Necros or Samurai builds).
Pets can not be given slayer properties, nor can they benefit from honor.
On top of that, the GD is not that powerful anymore. On my tamer, I have around 93.3 Myst and 113 Eval Int. I have +20% SDI and using a dragon slayer book while casting Hail Storm I can do 150-170 damage each cast to a GD.
Max your Myst, and Eval int. Throw more SDI and a slayer book onto a pure caster and you could probably pump out 200+ damage each cast to a GD.
A tamed GD will be dead in roughly 5 casts. It would take two myst users maybe 4 seconds to drop a 900+ HP GD.
How is that OP?
Lets not even get into the fact that 240 skill points are used solely to be able to say "all follow me", "all guard me", "all kill". 100-120 points in Vet is ONLY able to be used on your pet, from 1 square away. Is slower than casting a GH and heals about as much or less, and now monsters will switch to you if you try to vet.
Vet is useless imho, unless you want the bonus stable slots. 240 points is kinda wasted on 3 basic commands and lets be honest, the commands are very lacking especially for 240 points. Most pets can't move as fast as players on mounts, not even half as fast.
Not to mention all pets are useless in the new peerless, new none tamer pets were added which are relatively the equal of 96+ required taming pets. See the bonded vollum vs the nightmare.
Its not all roses and fun playing a tamer.
80% are tamers, 60% are mages 75% are fighters, 35% are bards, 20% are thieves, and 35% are ninjas.
I can use arbitrary percentages too!
I have a tame but I also have a legendary archer, a mage, a necro mage, a legendary fencer etc etc AND I play them all Does that make me bad because I have a tamer???
Hmm. A daily run through the Abyss. I counted 19 players in the abyss. 16 of them were tamers. Did Stygnian dragon with random group of people hanging outside his lair. 4 were tamers and 2 were mage/necs and two were abc archers. Did the EM event in ter Mur. over half were tamers. Boggle anyone who claims that tamer is not the predominant choice of template for any and all spawns you do.
Me thinks someone over exaggerates.
No it shouldn't. How is it fair that say a tamer who feels vet is not worth it now that npc's can res pets would have to pay res bills, and someone who doesn't have taming or lore can get really cheap resses?
If anything it should cost more.
I also think someone is exaggerating. That's not what I see. And even if it is close to that, tamers are a fairly easy choice for the lower range of high end content, on down. However, for a skilled player, there is always a better choice than a tamer.
The only possible exception I can think of for this is a hybrid tamer template riding a dread mare, cu sidhe, or greater hiryu in pvp. Those templates are as effective as other advanced pvp templates. I don't think they are necessarily any more effective than other advanced pvp templates, but they are perhaps at least as effective.
If the devs want to do something with taming, what they could perhaps make their goal is making taming a more challenging choice for mid level content, and a more effective choice for high end content. Personally I don't know how this could be done.
However, even if this was done, there would still be a lot of tamers in game because, oddly enough, tamers are fun to play.
You all really need to learn to read the entire thread....
the guy already apologized and admitted he was wrong...he was impaired and upset at not being able to find any weavers...
Sheesh let it go people!
You want to know why people think tamers are nut jobs....read this thread from top to bottom!
And then two weeks later he posted this:
If he's still drunk, tamers are the least of his problems. Perhaps, Timber, you should take your own advice and read the entire thread...
Llewen life is too short to argue with you...again..still ..anymore over taming issues!
Have no fear, I won't be offering you the same courtesy. Expect a response if you post more insults...
I expect nothing more for YOU!
uh Oh What about MEEEEE! lol
You I expect a lot more from!!!
All this thread is saying is that tamers are popular and not very useful. Since when has popularity been cause for a nerf
Why thank you!
Even if this were true, it says nothing about the relative power of templates. Some people haven't figured out yet that tamer is no longer the uber choice it was. The percentages will change over the next few months, guaranteed.
If you did Stygian Dragon with 4 tamers, you were with a bunch of idiots. lol
I did the "Recover Lost Knowledge" EM event and guess who got the books? Mages and Archers. NOT tamers. lol
Funny to label so many different toons a specific type of character when templates or so varied these days...
Could be Bard/Tamer, Stealth/Tamer, Dex/Tamer, Pure Tamer, Tamer/Mage, Tamer/Archer, so why not get onto healers because they are always in the dungeons (either with Chivalry, SW, healing, mage or some other form)
If UO is 80% Tamers then UO is 80% balanced. Guess the rest of the 20% need to make a Tamer so UO is 100% balanced.
I never thought of it that way... and WHO says Tamers aren't willing to compromise!
lol now thats funny
I don't care if this guy was drunk or not, it was a pretty dumb comment to make, and he seems to still hold the idea there's something wrong with tamers. I recently returned to the game after 10 year hiatus and think Tamers are pretty cool/fun (though it is very hard work to skill one up). However I saw a dexxer doing that whirlwind **** on the Cyclopses area in Ilshenar and I was amazed. He took out 10+ very tough mobs in a short time which would have taken me as a tamer much longer and with more risk to myself and pet. Not to mention annoying pet control issues. Pets can be strong, but they also have a lot of limitations and drawbacks.
Stop pancakes and play the game imo. People with class/skill envy/spite do the most damage to fun ORPGs.