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When is EA going to do something about moving shot?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Larry, Apr 19, 2009.

  1. Larry

    Larry Guest

    How long has it been since people starting noticing the stupidity behind 40 damage moving shots every 1,25 seconds?

    Why hasn't something been done? I don't even need to explain the absurdity of how its overpowered.

    The PvP community is becoming frustrated with the total lack of support for balance changes.
     
  2. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    Umm.... Not even close to true....

    Damage Formula's :

    MAXXED OUT EVERYTHING.. A Heavy does. 79-95 & that's BEFORE resists. Vs 70% resistance that's 21-29 Dmg From the Arrow...If your fighting someone with a Velocity & lighting bow maybe 40.... but that's the 2 hit effects on a bow that's broken...

    BTW... 60% ssi (which is the cap) Heavy Xbow with someone at 180 stamina = 2 second swing speed... and that's MAXXED... NOT 1.25

    Anyway....
    --Bugged Quivers of Rage = Broken
    --2 Hit effects on Archery weaposn = Broken
     
  3. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    A lot of people do assume 50 or lower in one resist is acceptable in PvP and they are usually the one who go hit the hardest when an archer cast conscrete weapon.

    Normally moving shot is OK but I agree other than that there's double spell proc, 10% modified damage and the bugged quiver of rages.

    Also moving shot is like the ultimate ganking special when used by more than 2 archers on the same target its absolutely stupid...
     
  4. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
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    ROFL dude what planet are you playin on? You obviously have absolutely zero idea as to what pvp is and what a gank is! You're absolutely thee worst mage to ever take to the field if you think moving shot is op. If you cannot defeat an archer or even two archers than perhaps you outta figure out how to play a mage better or just change your template to accomodate your shortcomings LOL. I guarantee i could either harm or magic arrow an archer to death and not even have to move. You sir just plain stink at pvp. LOL at chu.
     
  5. If you puff that chest out any farther it will explode and be very messy to clean up.

    Surgeon General's warning.
     
  6. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
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    You have know idea what my chest looks like, but thanks for the compliment.
     
  7. Petrify

    Petrify Lore Master
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    Hes knows your idea? What?
     
  8. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
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    LOL good one, i was testing you.
     
  9. Uh......yeah......riiiiiiight........:coco:
     
  10. ElRay

    ElRay Guest

    He has posted many times about pvp and has an in depth knowledge of it, where as you sound like a rookie right.....about.....now

    I cant decide if this is sarcasm or plain stupidity, ill give you the benefit of the doubt and go with sarcasm.
     
  11. Divster

    Divster Guest

    Given the things youve been complaining about lately i don't see why u feel you have the right to talk down to anyone, your post has nothing to do with the subject, more is simply an assault on someone you deem to be less worthy than ureself, which as ure other posts have made clear is clearly not the case!

    Wasn't moving shot meant to have a hit chance penalty? if so it sure aint working and it would make sense for this to apply! Anyway if archers are annoying you just make a bushido char and use counter attack, disarm those archers from range with melee lol
     
  12. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    Ummm Sir Morder......

    1) You completely misread WarUltima.. He DID NOT say that archers are overpowered. He simply agreed with my statement that 2 hit effects on archery weapons is a bit broken... he then went on to comment about how 2 moving shot archers is a good ganking squad.. but so is alot of other stuff...

    2)
    Posted by Morder:
    Actually Morder your horribly WRONG...

    FACT: 100 anatomy / 100 Healing / 140 DEX = 36-60 Dmg Healed every 4 seconds.

    That's 12 Damage per SECOND healed on average... <you did specify Magic arrow & lightning which CANNOT do enough to interupt> Add in a good balanced bow & 50% EP and the fact that as a MAGE you have to stop your offense to heal or you will die.. and well.... I call BS... lol.

    btw.. Harm spam ??? on an archer ??.... lolololol you said WarUltima was a bad mage.. do you just assume every archer you fight has lost connection and plans on standing next to you ?


    Anyway.. As I said.. Archery IS a little op.. but mainly because...

    --2 hit effects
    --only bows can have balanced property
    --Prepatch quivers of Rage... (They attempted to fix this, but just didn't do it right)..

    Fix those & Melee skillz would be alot more popular..
     
  13. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    RTLFC

    A suggestion:

    Before you (generic, plural) hit the 'post' button re-read what you've written and ask yourself 'If I said this to his face would he knock my teeth down my throat?'
    If the honest answer is 'probably' what you are about to post is almost certainly a troll. Please post within the ethos of rules A and B of our Rules of Conduct.

    Thank you.
     
  14. Larry

    Larry Guest

    *Cough*

    Anyway......

    The bugged quiver and 2 spell effects are a huge issue. But I guess nerfing trial accounts was a better use of developer time. To be honest archers need to overhaul to begin with. Before EA decided to give bows ridiculous stats, specifially absurd SSI, single tile dexers actually had a reason to be played. Archers do equal, if not more, damage from range. Why bother playing a single tiler dexer?

    Moving shot is one of the bigger problems, but in general its upsetting to see the total lack of communication/support for PvP from the developers. My original point was half about moving shot, and half about the lack of PvP dev support. Ignore the trolls. :)
     
  15. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    I really don't understand why EA decided they should allow Archers to fire on the move in the first place... What, so they don't feel like mages too much?.... :coco:
    Having to stand still to aim and shoot is A VITAL PART of the balancing between Archery, Melee and Magery.
    By all means keep all the Velocity and Balanced crap, who cares if 2Handed weapons ever get any love anyway(HINT: NOT EA!), but this Special Move needs to go.

    I mean what's next? A Special Move that allows Melee templates to throw their Kryss or Axes and then reel them back like the guy in "Ninja Scroll"?....... Thank whatever God you believe in that EA made Throwing utilize specific weapons! It's a wonder they didn't mess this one up.
    On the other hand, this game already allows its casters to wield full Melee equipment without any serious drawbacks so it makes a kind of twisted, warped sense.

    And there are examples of this weirdness all over UO. :bored: We don't even have Dual Wield. 2Hand Weps suck by definition! Heal Pots get a timer, but Cures don't! And Tamers(Correction:ARCHER Tamers), primarily a PvM class, now DOMINATE PvP!? And so on...

    This kind of twisted sense, which I call NONSENSE to be honest, is why I cannot play anymore.. Along with all the cheating going on. :coco:
     
  16. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    Funny.....I can rise horseback, AND, fire off a couple arrows as well...(rifles a lil shakier)........needless to say, it can be done, and not on some computer game....seems it's always the pvper's crying about balance and nerfing.

    When are you people going to realize there IS NO BALANCE???
    God forbid, someone has to learn to adjust and actually really have to think.:wall:

    To quit playing UO, especially over things like this, borders some psychological term that exists........I've learned so much about adapting, switching tactics, and even creating new ones....cheaters(real ones) scripters, and yes, odd in game mechanics have forced me to get creative.

    Never have I come here in such a display that initiated this fiasco.

    Have a good life.
     
  17. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Many warrior cultures have honored warriors that could ride and fire a bow. This can and has been done in real life. Why is it a stretch to imagine it in a fantasy game?
     
  18. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    But if it throws stuff out of balance especially when archery weapons in Ultima Online is so much more superior with impossible to get mods on them. They should have done a little more testing before release it.

    You know in most other fantasy games mages dies in 3 hits (same as UO) but in those games mage damage will trash any other dexer/archer completely yet in UO Pure mages are one of the lowest dps classes if not the lowest. My bard with something to provoke out damages my pure inscribe mage with slayer book.

    Something always make sense and something do not. You know... like in UO leather armor provides as much as protection as plates yet they allow mages to med and passively med. Or something like pets casts double spell no ranged check but when a mage "master of knowledge" try to cast it they are forced to stand still and if the enemy got too far it just fails to cast (another thing that's unique in UO).

    At least in games like WoW and NWN if to start to windup a big spell and the enemy was in your range for a reasonable amount of time then proceed to leave the spell range... the spell will still chase them down and hit them whereas in UO if your spell takes 2 second to cast and your enemy was in range for 1.99 second then left the spell range and dont stop running then your spell will never ever land.

    "Logic" dont always work with fantasy games, balance however it more important.
     
  19. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper
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    I am just kinda concerned on when would the quiver of rage (prepatch) getting fixed.

    Those things with honor self = 50 damage per shot on my 65+ flat resist.
     
  20. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    This is Ultima Online.. not World of Warcraft. Stop saying DPS. Friggin!
     
  21. Larry

    Larry Guest

    As far as fixes go, here's some ideas:

    - Cap damage like they did with AI, but much lower obviously. 15 cap seems fairto me.
    or
    - Increase mana cost to normal specials
     
  22. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    4th Man : I do not care what you can do IRL. What I care about is that standing still to shoot is part of a theoretical balance plan between classes. I say theoretical because it's gone out of the window, for ages now.

    I didn't quit JUST over this, as I said a lot of things don't make sense. This can include rampant cheating. I don't want to make a list of those things now. So I mentioned Moving Shot.
    I have been in this game for too long, if a single Spec Move could drive me away it would have done it ages ago.
    Don't give me the old and tired "Adapt" or "Creativity" stories.

    Kelmo : It's not about what can be done IRL. Bear with me a little?

    If you want to play this particular game of Realism Vs. UO then let's all be unable to ride anything until they introduce RIDING, and Mounted Combat should then be needed to use a weapon at full potential from atop a horse!! :talktothehand:

    Let's now assume you're on foot, shooting at someone and you miss and they close in. What do you do, start running, occasionally loading and drawing your bow then twisting your torso to get visual, then aim and fire and ACTUALLY HIT YOUR TARGET more than 1 every 10 shots.......? What will you be doing, running backwards?
    This scenario would bear far more favourable results for the "Archer" with an SMG or AR since you mention those.
    The fuss of re-arming a Heavy Crossbow on the run with someone running at you with a long sword... Tsk tsk. It would force you to draw a melee weapon yourself.

    Let's assume you're the one hunting someone else- you now do not have to twist your body and all but really, if you miss once and try to re-arm you're done.
    Given the running shake, panting, direction changing of you and your target and a few other factors like the fact you will have to run with your weapon aimed to take advantage of all opportunities(very tiring) you WILL most probably miss. It's pure luck.

    What you would do is stand still, calculate distance and track your target for a few seconds and shoot, regardless whether the target is running away or towards you. If the latter is the case you just drop your bow and go melee. If the previous is the case you will often not even chase your target, rather as I said snipe them.

    I hope that's clear then. Moving Shot can be performed, but it wouldn't be a primary attack method as it is now because it would be unreliable, if UO was about Realism. And it would require 1 or maybe 2 extra skills to be performed from atop a horse. The warrior cultures you mention underwent some serious training to achieve a certain level of success with this, be assured. Take Mongols for example, others would often say they were BORN ON HORSES... That's an exaggeration but really, they trained and trained... It didn't happen over-night and in UO's reality that would mean 120 to 240 Skillpoint investment! ;P

    And once more it would be much easier with a modern fire-arm obviously.

    See, it's all crazy if we start using the "It Can Happen IRL" argument, or what each of us can do IRL with a bow or rifle...

    ""Logic" don't always work with fantasy games, balance however is more important." <----- THAT! Moving Shot IMHO has no place in UO the way it's implemented. Archers should have to stand still to shoot, period. Matter of balance.

    Larry : Capping damage is one way, making the penalty in HCI actually mean something should also be considered.... But increasing Mana cost in general will break other things.
     
  23. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    I've only been PvPing on my archer for a couple of months now, so I have a question and an observation.

    First the question:
    To date, I haven't been using a bow with multiple hit spell effects (my favorite PvP weapons are a heavy with magic arrow and a composite with fireball at the moment), so I haven't had the chance to observe what makes multiple hit spells (i.e. lightning and physical area) so much more powerful. So what does make them overpowered?

    Second, the observation:
    I haven't actually tested it, but I've noticed that using moving shot repeatedly doesn't significantly reduce my chance to hit at all. In fact sometimes I believe I hit MORE often when using moving shot.

    So has anyone actually tested it and found results that match with the official description of "Somewhat reduces the chance to hit?"
     
  24. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Answer to your first question. The double hit effect (or dual proc) people are refering to means Hit Fireball/Lighting AND Hit Velocity on the same bow, not hit area effect. Velocity can co-exist with other direct hit spell (hit FB, Lighting, Harm, Magic Arrow). The damage calculation for "velocity hit" is roughly 1 damage per tile. The farther away you are to your target the more damage it will do. This means at 10-tile range using a double effect composite bow with hit lighting even if your moving shot is not that strong but when lighting and velocity both proc that's an added 20ish damage on top of your moving shot damage. A composite dual proc bow can do upward 35 damage moving shot (assuming both effect proc). When used on a heavy with fast connection (to stay within 8 tile range) each moving shot can potentially hit alot harder.

    Basically double proc AI is capable doing nearly 50 damage.
    Double proc dismount shot can easily go over 50 damage.

    As to your second question, I do not feel like I whiff more than usual. I think it's basically the same hit chance, but I do feel moving shot hits more than my AI shots tho :cursing:

    It's either bugged and not giving any HCI penalty at all or it gives very little HCI penalty for us to notice the difference.
     
  25. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    You missed one...the most powerful, Double hit spell conc blow can hit up to 80damage a hit, maybe more!
     
  26. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    There is an insane Xbow for sale on europa at the moment with the following properties:

    Velocity 45%
    Hit Lightning 50%
    Faster Casting 1
    Swing Speed Increase 40%

    2 Concussion blows could potentially end many pvp encounters before they have begun with this bow.
     
  27. Mounted archery has been part of military tactics for centuries... but it is difficult to do, limited range and accuracy.

    If you want to throw in real life, I suggest making mounted and moving shots have a 50% HCI penalty (just like real life) and halve the distance to hit. That would balance it a bit.
     
  28. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    I can throw a knife irl at your head... so what's your point?

    This is about balance... not real life.

    The whole point to the non-ranged melee skills was that you could hit your opponent on the run. You could have the option to drink a potion by using a less powerful, 1 handed weapon. You could poison your opponent.

    But!

    You could NOT hit at a range.

    Now that archery can hit on the run, have the item property [balanced] (which no other 2 handed weapons have.) and add ninja stars/darts and/or serpents arrow...

    So now... why in the HELL would anyone not run archery as a dexer? There is only one damn benefit to running a melee skill instead of archery... and that is that you can have parry. Whoopity ****ing doo. So I have 3 skills that are only good to use with ONE template... and then I have UBWS so essentially... all 3 skills are the same damn thing.

    Lets not even mention dismount!!! I have to stand right next to my opponent with any of the 3 melee skills in order to dismount them, but an archer just needs to toggle a special move and double click? like wtf?

    And to top it all off, there are freaking draw backs!!! Such as having to stand right next to your opponent in order to hit them.

    Oh, but for another one-hundred-freaking-skill-points... I can pick up throwing and finally throw my daggers at my opponent... and not just at the dart board in my home. Oh wait... I still won't be able to... who knows really? Either way it works out to be super lame. GREAT!

    Yeah. Leave RL analogies out of this... this is about balance. Screw whoever thought what ever in whoevers culture. This is a videogame that's supposed to be fun with variety. Right now, I could rename the game to Archery Online and call it a day.
     
  29. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    UO it's DP1.25S
     
  30. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    I didn't realize a bow was supposed to have Volocity + hit spell - I thought it was one or the other.
     
  31. wrekognize

    wrekognize Guest

    Archery is not what is unbalanced in PVP. What needs to be fixed is the use of pets. It’s out of control.



     
  32. Excecutive

    Excecutive Guest


    Thread #9119081091295894679812049812479609745608340957823

    Quit Whining, Grow Up And Adapt New Ways to Beat the Unbalanced Templates.

    Don't like it, Move to a new game.

    Simple as that.

    E
    N
    D

    O
    F

    S
    T
    O
    R
    Y
     
  33. Divster

    Divster Guest


    This post is just ridiculous if people have a gripe they are perfectly entitled to post about it here, if something is unbalanced whatever that may be it is player feedback that helps bring this to the spotlight, feel free to give a reply that actually challenges the propostition instead of telling people to "adapt". maybe people can adapt and thats fine but if someone wants to post a reasonable question they should not have to be told to "grow up" by someone who doesn;t follow thier own advice
     
  34. Green Meanie

    Green Meanie Guest

    Moving shot is only -10 hci. I think this should be more like 30 anofe that you cant simply have stack and not worrie about it unless it is most of your suit.
    Other than that make it so a bow cant have volicity and hit spell and im happy.
    1 archer moving shot realy isnt that bad but i will say that 3 archers is the only gank that i couldnt exscape lucky or no theres no beating getting beat up by 3 archers that dont lose steps for moving shot to keep up with you.
     
  35. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    That explains it. I have 45hci on my suit along without counting the weapon. And my moving shot composite has 46 Hit Lighting and 48 Velocity and 12 HCI... Actually moving shot can use some cap (not dmg cap) like protection. Something like capping hci at negative 10 where you cant go over like how Protection capping FC at 0. Not like it matters that much anyways your moving shot will drop from hitting your opponent with 45dci 50% of the time to 33% of the time.
     
  36. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Also I dont want to make make shot worthless. That's sometimes the only way we can kill the running happy (possibly speedhacking/client side mod) players. And against popular belief, speedhacks works the best on DEXERS... because they do NOT have to stop to do anything. But when we have 2 to 3 archers (one of them is a disarm archer), ANYONE gets destoryed quickly even if hes running in straight line.

    Unless he can smoke bomb, hes dead.
     
  37. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper
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    Do you guys know its legal to use prepatch quiver of rage?

    Thanks.

    I am still getting shots by 3 archers with 42 to 50 damage per hit.
     
  38. Bruce Dickinson

    Bruce Dickinson Adventurer
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    I always love it when people say adapt. Adapt to an uninterruptible 40 damage every 1.25 seconds? Guess I'll pick up hiding/stealth/ninja on my mage and start smoke-bombing all the time.
     
  39. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Not quite. At 180 stam and 60ssi using a composite you can only hit 1.5 sec/swing.

    But not like it makes a difference. I am an old school player and is very used to "adapting" to changes. However even tho I adapted (why I started playing PvP tamers and paid tons for super dual proc bows) dont mean I think they are "fine".

    I was once a die-hard pure inscribe wrestle mage for the longest time throughtout most of my UO life but it simply dont work anymore. I believe many vet players have the same feelings as I when they give up a "traditional" template and "evolves" into something "gimp" something that dont require too much "player skill" yet can be a slaughter machine on field.

    Again, one of the biggest part in UO PvP is to find that perfect template for you to play. That's why even tho I still have many mages on my accounts I am mainly playing my archer and tamers now. (especially in 1 to 6 or 3 to 10 situation).

    Especially on my shard nowdays I am fighting enemy faction guild 1 on 6+ all the time. With a tons of running I can survive/kill just fine on my archer or bushido evader tamer YES EVEN IF IT'S 1 on 6 I can still drop and stat some of them and get away. But when I get on my mage, for each spell I am trying to cast with 6+ people chasing me (not counting their possible stealth dismount archers) for EVERY TICK I am frozen in place for any kind of casting there's a chance I will be killed outright/dismounted then ganked/Turbo AIed.

    EVEN IF I dont stop running then there will be 3+ moving shot archers chasing me. And if you have any real PvP knowledge as a pure mage (no parry, no evasion gimp) if I dont STOP and try to cast heal I will die eventually and if I do STAND STILL and try to cast I am facing 3 possible ARMOR IGNORES attempts for an instant misrable death.

    Many vets like myself are FORCED to adapt and for me... if I am going to "adapt" I am going to adapt to the best (aka OPed)... often means I am adapting to those certain templates played by "those FFs that's telling everyone to adapt" HOWEVER I will make my version of gimplet better if possible. :thumbsup:
     
  40. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    The mana cost on moving shot is way to low.

    My 2 cents on the subject.
     
  41. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    You have issues bud :(

    There is no possibility of any bow with the Moving Shot special doing 40 damage at 1.25(even assuming you are dumb enough to be pvping against the Archer naked)

    I don't even need to explain the absurdity of anyone who posts such obvious nonsense now do I?

    IMO the only things that appear to be overpowered may be your prescription drugs?

    Peace out :)
     
  42. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    I assume/hope you also mean to cap damage & raise mana on all mage/necro spells at 15 bud?
    Cuz that seems a bit fairer to me.
     
  43. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    My guess goldberg is you are a bad archer who still dies even with said bugged quiver, which I gurantee will be getting fixed. Lets not act like it doesn't add damage, it makes a huge difference.
     
  44. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    He's been an archer for years.

    Nothing wrong with that, but he does get quite upset when people talk about nerfing archers.

    :next:
     
  45. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

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    QFT. What he said...how absolutely absurd!!

    So Larry..how IS that naked fighting going...not to good?
     
  46. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron The DarkOutlaws, TDO

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    If you stop running and start to fight back, then you won't have trouble with moving shots as the archer don't need to move and you will deal damage to him too.
     
  47. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Archery and Taming need some adjustments. (ADJUSTMENTS..not nerfed into the ground.....there is a difference)

    Clearly you cannot see that. So just go along your way and pretend everyone else is always wrong and you're always right.
     
  48. Ozymandies

    Ozymandies Guest

    Who needs realism or balance? Remember Legolas sliding down the stairs on a shield shooting arrows out his a$$ and that one hit Gimli and knocked him in the water? . . . or something like that. I just remember it wasn't quite like the book there.

    Okay, now for something useful. Is it possible that, upon deducting a -10% hit increase for moving shot, the hci cap is then ignored for the rest of the calculation, resulting in the observed better hit ratio when using said shot? That would be a bug and reason enough to delve into the code. . .

    Hmmm . . .

    OZ
     
  49. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

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    He plays Siege Perilous and trust me the guy is a rookie :)

    His template of choice if stealth ninja tamer for pvp and there is no passive detect on siege so with gm hiding and max stealth you pretty much don't get revealed.... So his idea of pvp is all kill instantly followed bye his smoke bomb macro...

    he did however play a dexer in the past and would fall at number one in my book of worst dexers ever to play the Siege server...
     
  50. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Isn't that what everyone on Siege is playing these days?