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When will tamers get nerfed?

Discussion in 'UO Spiels N Rants' started by Razeial, Feb 24, 2009.

  1. Razeial

    Razeial Guest

    I think it is absolutely absurd that when i go to pvp at yew gate, 85% of the people there are a tamer. Tamers were NEVER, in ANY of Ultima's lore, mention to be evil, a pk, pvp, etc.....NEVER! Im tired of these noobs running around with a dread warhorse and a kitsune and a bola putting me on foot, sending the pets on me, having 14 stealth archers pop out to try and get the kill shot. PvP is a joke when people are using pets. There is no skill in all kill. I tried to 1v1 a mage the other day at the gate, the minute i got him alone and got to casting, he hopped off his dread mare and sicked it on me, damn thing fireballed me for 40 damage with 65+ fire resist, then he bombs on me and i'm dead. What in the f***? I can handle the worthless stealth archers only there to fight when they have back up, but the tamers......PLEASE NERF THE FREAKIN TAMERS!! And whats with evil omen being able to negate 120 points in resisting spells? Broken much? whats even worse, PvP/M in factions. Lets hear the flames and defenses for pvp tamers please, that way i can quote each of you doing so and call you a noob and tell you to go play Trammel or WoW. ktxhu. :end rant
     
  2. wrekognize

    wrekognize Guest

    It is out of control. The archer/tamer template is extremely unbalanced right now.
     
  3. Tom_Builder

    Tom_Builder Slightly Crazed
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    Looks like you want a nerf on more then just tamers. You included acrhers, stealthers, and necros. I would think that a max damage output in pvp would solve all your crying at once. As for no skill to pvp on tamers, that goes for just about any pvper. Only mages take any real skill, and mages have already been nerfed to hell. Quote me all you like, call me what names you like, neither will hurt me or my feelings.

    Tom
     
  4. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    What you meant to whine about and say was when will tamers get nerfed yet AGAIN since they have been nerfed over and over again?
     
  5. Razeial

    Razeial Guest

    Thank god the first post is in agreement. Archer/tamer template is very very overpowering. There needs to be SERIOUS penalties for using pets in pvp or the elimination of the possibility all together.
     
  6. Razeial

    Razeial Guest


    OH, Yes, because you know, Mages have it SOOOOOOOOOOOO easy in pvp. Im asking for a PvP nerf, not an overall nerf. You trammies wouldn't suffer the effects.

    And how have tamers been nerfed? more pets have been introduced in the past 2 years than ever before. The only thing tamers can complain about is the gain rate on taming, and you all use jewelry anyways so dont even try to argue that. I guess one could argue that balls of summoning reveal you when hidden, yeah, what a hard nerf that is.
     
  7. Razeial

    Razeial Guest

    I play a stealth fencer with nox, and stealthing is annoying. I also play a necro mage, and evil omen is extremely broken. Yes, i want a balanced pvp field. Sue me. My point is, tamers are E X T R E M E L Y over powering in the PVP WORLD!!!
     
  8. LadyNico

    LadyNico Always Present
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    Make (or make friends with) a Discord Bard. :thumbsup:
     
  9. Razeial

    Razeial Guest

    Useless answer. Would be just another guard hugging noob that i'd have to res if they died.
     
  10. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Wow, no it isn't a useless answer. It's a good way to counter tamers just as detect hidden/tracking is a good way to counter stealthers. All it would take for you is two skill slots, music/discard. If you are unwilling to do what it takes to counter your most hated template then it's your fault for not trying, not EA's. I see players who can discard and are NOT hiding in the guard zone, and you know what? The tamers are the ones hiding with their pets in the guard zone because of them.
     
  11. Razeial

    Razeial Guest

    Yes it is. My point is i shouldn't have to. It wasn't until EA made this game item based instead of skill based did Tamers really surface in PvP. Tamers were never ever intended to be used for PvP, and goes against all that Ultima is. They should fix their errors. Especially when tactics, archery, taming and lore, can negate 720 skill points in a matter of seconds. Same goes for all tamer templates in pvp.
     
  12. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Hahahahahahahahaha



    Get out, newbie.
     
  13. Mr.Fernandes

    Mr.Fernandes Guest

    Its not a /useless/ suggestion, no, but that kind of highly situational hard-counter is a dubious solution to any balance problem at best, since then what do you do against everyone ELSE?
     
  14. Lady_Emma

    Lady_Emma Visitor
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    If you think tamers were never used in pvp you are wrong. In the beginning tamers were great for pvp and they could have several pets to fight with. Even better, when tamers died their pets continued the fight and usually killed their opponent. Tamers are difficult to create and easy to kill. In fact tamers die as often or more often than any other player type. Faction tamers have great gear and this gear is probably more responsible for their apparent invulnerability than are their pets. In addition, archer tamers, stealth tamers and music tamers are very limited on the skills they can have because so much of their point are used for taming so they have definite weaknesses. If you think tamers are so great, why don't you make one?
     
  15. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    I remember having 30 dragons/white wyrms and going out and deccimating everything in sight, player or not.
     
  16. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Really now? And you base that off what exactly?
     
  17. Razeial

    Razeial Guest


    Knowing my Ultima lore. Any of you defending tamers in pvp are a joke. Taming is broken in pvp no matter how you slice it.
     
  18. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Uh-huh. Right. Ultima lore knowledge. Because UO is the ONLY Ultima game where there is actual player vrs player combat. That's a poor excuse for saying taming wasn't intended for PvP.
     
  19. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Hm... Resorting to Ultima Lore are we.

    Okay.

    Ultima IX. The cutscene when the avatar arrives in Britannia. There's a Wyrmguard on a dragon waiting for him, who roast the spot he appears on.

    There. Tamer in "PvP"
     
  20. Razeial

    Razeial Guest

    ...........wow............. by that logic we should allow people to ride dragons and have the dragon AND the player fight someone....



    So what you all are saying is that it is OK to have a single or pair of pets be able to wipe out another player in just a few seconds? If you justify this, then you must justify giving mages 4/6 casting. Why not give mages parry again? why not allow death strike to do ridiculous amounts of damage by bow? how about we revert back to nerve strike paralyzing someone for more than 2 seconds? Why? Because it's overpowering and shifts the balance of PvP in favor of another. UO's pvp system is based on the premise that it is balanced.
     
  21. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    A single or a pair of pets never whipe anyone out in seconds. Unless you are walking around naked or just have really bad lag and armor. Unless we are talking about being on foot against a greater dragon.

    I agree greater dragons need some tweaking.

    But saying tamers were never meant for PvP and basing it on "Ultima Lore" is just plain ridiculous.
     
  22. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    You might want to clean up that drip.
     
  23. Lady_Emma

    Lady_Emma Visitor
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    Riding dragons seems like an awsome idea. Heals and Cures for dragons and pets sounds awsome too.
    Anyone can be a tamer it is not like only special people can do it so anyone can take advantage of the skill and it's rewards. There are several ways to kill a greater dragon. They are not invinciable. This game is for fun and adventure but seems like people would like just to kill stuff and not die. Pretty boring?
     
  24. Loral

    Loral Guest

    As a tamer I can sum up the imbalance in one word, dismount.

    If a mounted player gets killed by pets hes bad, the end.

    That said dismount is way too easy to come by. Make bolas require 90 tactics, like a weapon special. You could also make the mod fast cast recovery effect your remount cooldown, so at 6 you can remount in as little as one second. Then like any good pvper on a mount you run away, bug the pets out on something, go back smoke the tamer and move on.

    As for tamers not being meant for pvp. The game was created with tamers, and they have always been part of UO pvp. A mage with a deamon, or in the old days a herd them, is essentially a tamer. The game design requires players to go to Fel to get champ scrolls, that means, by game design, tamers are to be involved in pvp. Are tamers supposed to just be auto kills, or banned from Fel all together? Please stop making unsupportable claims about what the game design intends or lore as both change at the will of the game creators often in all MMORPGS.
     
  25. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    Taking tamers completely out of PvP is forcing people to play other templates in order to spawn in Felucca. Not everyone wants to play a SW/Mage, or a Necro/Mage or a dexer.

    Instead of crying nerf TAMERS, try crying, NERF GD/Dreadmare firebreath in PvP.

    It's not the tamer alone that makes it overpowered, it's the tamer + pets and their damage output that makes them overpowered.

    But efftards who use auto-cure scripts, auto-trapped box scripts, speed enhancing programs are overpowered.

    I haven't played a mage since coming back to UO about 9 months ago due to the fact if I got someone low on HP there's no way I can catch them due to them jumping screens ahead, or a nox anything due to insta cure pots. Don't tell me that's not being overpowered either.

    So instead of crying nerf on TAMERS, try crying NERF on the pets themselves.
     
  26. Breeze64

    Breeze64 Seasoned Veteran
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    make a tamer yourself & get over it!
    adapt to the changes in the game!
    I am so sick of all the nerf cries, to nerf tamers!
    NERF the pallys, necro, etc too then.
    Pallys & necros have been over powered for a long time now too.
    I don't even PvP so I could really careless.
    but I'll say it again!
    You need to adapt to the changes in the game!

    Being able to make a character how you want is what is so great about UO, there is no cookie cutter character so to speak!

    it's just my 2 cents on it & you don't have to like it
     
  27. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    dude, tamers are weak sauce.. most the skill points go to controlling the pet..
    also, pets are really slow.. just run away.. hide.. come back, slay the tamer with ease. not that hard..

    BOLAS however, shouldn't just be for ANYONE to use.. thats weak..
    i agree with the 90 tactics thing. thats a slick idea. the rel por, bola thingy is dumb, but it takes time to throw one.. simply, run away!

    dismount archer tamers are really easy to kill... end.
     
  28. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    I have to back Raz up on this topic.

    One thing about any template past or present. If it consists of extreme stack damage to instant kill in a window of 3 seconds, or there is no counter or survivability to it is overpowered.

    Quoting EA as an unfair advantage over another player.
     
  29. ATLPvPer

    ATLPvPer Journeyman
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    Are you serious?? 120 taming, 120 Lore, giving you a Greater Dragon. That is 240 points. That is 1/3rd of points, that is NOTHING. For a GD that does 70 damage fireballs, that is nothing. For a dreadmare you need even less, that is nothing. A tamer with a dreadmare or greater dragon, along with magery or archery (they still have 480 points to invest!!! IF they don't use jewls) equates for a vastly overpowered template. Add in a bola, and it is instant game over.

    Why should I be forced to make a tamer? I don't enjoy playing a tamer. Should I force you to play a mage, or a dexxer, or any template you don't enjoy playing? Where is the logic in that?? Oh we can all make overpowered template, so why nerf it! yea! I guess that is great for the new players who joined this game for PvP. They step into fel on their mage, finally geared up with good armor, then someone says "all kill" and they die in 3 seconds. I bet they never open UO again. I guess they should have just made a tamer, according to your logic.
     
  30. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    No one is forcing you to play any template. I go to yew and what do I see? Tamers? no. I mostly see dexers, archers, mage warriors, etc. When I do see a tamer they are not owning anyone, instead they say "all kill" and the pet get ganked by the pks forcing the tamer to get his pet back.

    I hardly ever see tamers owning everything in PvP.
     
  31. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    I think you're one of those newbies in your example.
     
  32. mutau

    mutau Guest

    :D hahahaha spoiled much? expecting much? get real.
     
  33. Scratch

    Scratch Guest

    ingredients:

    1 bola made from your choice of ore
    1 dread warhorse ( has casting off screen capabilities with faster than player casting)
    120 tame (not necessary but usually good)
    120 lore (not necessary but usually good)
    120 vet (not necessary but usually good)
    1 uo assist macro ( dismount, say all kill, last target)

    you may add parry bush and some high dci items or whatever you want since you have 360 skill points to play with

    if you dont think this template is uber gay atm then you must be playing it
    and of course no uo dev would ever post in this thread to confirm the inbalance

    keep on playing the all kill 360 point tamer template
    we feel srry for you that this is the best you can do to visit fel

    we hope it doesnt take you too long to move to the next gimplate after this one gets nerfed so you can continue to play

    personally, id be embarrassed if i had to play a one macro template to be in fel
    but what do you expect from Mommy's basement nerds?

    trammies shouldnt post in this thread since they obviously have no ideal what the problem is. saying that a person should not be killed by a pet is true, however that is not the case with the dread warhorse once you are on foot running from the moving shot balanced bow the noob all kill tamer is wielding while he is chugging away at his pots. balanced bows are gay and all two handed weps should have the option to be crafted with that mod not just weps that can shoot on the go or archery weps.

    i was screens away from the warhorse when it ex fs me for way too many points.

    ea will fix this eventually, its not like they care anyway so just hang in there
    maybe in a year or so it shall be addressed

    this is a quick insta fix:

    anyone with taming skill can not dismount
    bolas require 90 tactics (my young status char with 150 skill points never misses a bola)
    pets do half damage to player chars (kinda like they did with AI)
    if as a player my damage is capped at 35 for dexxer AI's, why can a player pet do 60 point damage spells at a faster rate than any player. does any work go into this game before a publish, or is it all done by trial and error as it appears?

    before you ramt about me dying to a tamerlol....it doesnt matter
    i cant help it if you cant play any better than all kill

    get skillz already

    dismount all kill is a template i could train a monkey to play with a banana as a motivational tool. hell its a one macro template so the monkey would have to learn a one button sequence.
     
  34. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Learn to adapt.
     
  35. MoneyMaker

    MoneyMaker Guest

    Hmm, i guess that since i have a tamer/bard/mage that i should only use the mage part when i PvP?
    Hmm, seems to me that i recall a thread about trammies complaining (venamently!!) that fel should not be the only place that PS's should be available. ergo.... I have to go to fel to get PS's..... ergo... there is a chance that there WILL be PvP... so I guess that i should just lay down and die without defending myself or possibly raiding a spawn???
    I can understand your rant about the gate hoggers with pets, fully agree with that. In fact i think that no one should be able to do any skill/command actions inside a gate guard zone.
    But let me clear this up for ya real quick........ You meet me and any of my pets in fel..... expect me to attack or defend myself, after all thats the spirit of Player vs. Player!!!
    As for the skill side of it...... you just target and cast........ i target and heal pet. If you really wanna get technical about it, you could take a tamer out fast. Just lead a monster in, if it is a smart tamer he has the pet guarding. you have invis ready. invis near the pet, monster attacks pets or tamer....... either way you have a tamer that is sitting exposed with no protection til they finish off the monster. Plus they will most likely need healing since you have the tamer distracted. (of course this scenario would be worthless against a tamer/bard, since i would simply peace it til i finished ya off....... but that is also part of PvP.... my tactics against yours........)

    May the Better TOoooOOon win!!!
     
  36. Scratch

    Scratch Guest

    player and his pet is not pvp
    its pet+pvp

    a gank situation for the tamer who cant pvp
    magical pets in pvp are fn gay as hell

    tram is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
     
  37. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    lol you pvpers keep nerfing each other and no one will play pvp I love it not like there are many of you left anyway !
    ok just kidding but the effect is going to end up that way it was archers now tamers hmm who is next dexers maybe ? there is always going to be people complaning about the temp that beats them and saying its not fair cry cry cry ! there is a way to beat any template if you spend time trying instead of whining! sheesh
     
  38. MoneyMaker

    MoneyMaker Guest

    Okay, let me get this straight.............. you don't want tamers to be able to enter fel, because they have pets as part as their template.......... you don't want blue bards in fel, because they can use discord without being aggroed.........you want mages to have slower casting and less spell damage......... you want..........

    Seems to me there are alot of wants there. I have a idea!
    Instead of complaining, come up with some new tatics to get around someone elses template!
    As far as the comment about basement nerds..... most of them are the ones who are beating you with your own template. Remember they have alot of time to sit around and play UO, and perfect their tatics.

    The only positive note that i can come up with from previous posts, is the idea that something has to be done about the warhorses. True they should never be able to cast more than a screen away.

    I take that back there is 2 poisitive notes: the second being bolas. I also believe there should be a skill requirement for their use.

    But back to my main point: If there are melee templates that can solo mel, parox, greater dragons, ancient dragons, etc., then I am pretty sure that you could tweak your template enough to take out a simple tamer and his pet..... I mean if we are so weak of a template as all that, then we should be as simple as a fel miner too kill...... Or you could just do like we did, when there was no tram or fel........ just avoid the templates that you know you can't beat.

    But if everyone wants to continue the idea that this or that template is over powered, then i say we nerf them all. start over from ground zero, make damage the same for each and every template. In conclusion... Just make us all carbon copies of each other (you think a peerless takes too long to kill, wait til u try to kill someone who is just a mirror of your char.)
     
  39. MoneyMaker

    MoneyMaker Guest

    My point exactly!:D