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Where the heck is the EC male paperdoll that was promised in DECEMBER?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by canary, Jun 14, 2010.

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  1. canary

    canary Guest

    Does anyone recall at the HoC it was mentioned that the male paperdoll was FINALLY being redone?

    CatHat handled the female redraw and turned it around in a few weeks. Anyone have any idea what is causing the hold up on male art? I mean, I'm very curious myself about it seeing it was even discussed during Kingdom Reborn.

    Anyone? Bueller?
     
  2. Nok

    Nok Lore Master
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    Rumor has it that the new EC male paperdoll is currently unavailable, he's out doing interviews and promotions for his latest film... he plays the part of Ken in the new Toy Story 3.

    [youtube]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4lnP3Nqa7NA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4lnP3Nqa7NA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]
     
  3. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    The same place all the things the never deliver on: "In Progress"


    So it will get to us "Soon" (tm)


    I.E.: They forgot, and never. :sad4:
     
  4. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I like 3D-Realms' release date they like to use: "When it's done."
     
  5. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    I begin to believe that UO no longer has anyone working for it as far as art is concerned. If there was anyone working on art, we should see art in every patch, be it small fixes or big additions. We don't see much by the way of art though, which means we're either sharing an art team, or there just isn't one working on stuff.

    They could fix these issues, they could fix lots of issues... but they don't.
     
  6. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Isn't that the "company" behind Duke Nukem Forever?

    Yeah... Not exactly a bar you want to live up to.

    If there's ever a company that could make the current state of UO look completely acceptable, it's 3D-Realms.
     
  7. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Yeah, they unfortunately ended up canceling it. Seems no one decided to really get behind it and put any more work into it. But their release dates do seem to be the most honest, lol.
     
  8. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Well... 3D-Realms has "when its done" as a release date... they've pretty well exemplified how not to use that as a release date.

    On the other hand, Blizzard uses the same release date. It's pretty safe to say they know how to use that release date effectively.
     
  9. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Well we did just get a bunch of art for gargoyle weapons... Much of which puts the old art to shame...

    Though honestly, I'd rather they fix the EC's constipated male paperdoll, and fix their lazy art flubs from the last few holidays. (EC art: Holiday garlands, ruined tapestry, etc.)

    Kinda done holding my breath though and their "we're working on it" promise hasn't held water in quite some time.
     
  10. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    My question is... and this stems back to "Why the bloody hell did they need to reslot gargoyle armors?"... why the bloody hell can't the gargoyles just hold the weapons that are already in the game?

    No offense, but talk about a complete and total waste of art resource time.

    And... while some of them look okay, others look silly. The scythe comes to mind. It looks very grim reaper like prior to the gargoyles. It now looks like the gargoyles are part of a new hedge clipping organization.

    Excuse me... there's a Mister Death here... he's come about the reaping... says it looks rather grim.
     
  11. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    I don't disagree with you! But then you know that rolleyes:

    The gargish daisho does look like a set of hedge clippers... Perhaps they have a very active sect of the Knights who say Ni in Ter Mur who run around demanding shrubberies? :lol:
     
  12. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Honestly, why don't they just allow for people to select whether they want the new paperdoll or the 2D paperdoll from the CC in the EC.
     
  13. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    But then none of the clothes/armour would fit and you would then need to bring the 2d versions over. Seems like adding 1 GB of art to the EC client for no reason.. If it was an optional download sure! But I don't want the EC using a GB of space I'm never going to use.
     
  14. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    The items don't fill a Gb, the CC doesn't even fill 1 Gb.

    The item art doesn't fill too much as they're not animated.

    But sure, just make it an optional download. But I will never use the EC client as long as its using those horrid paperdolls.
     
  15. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    A GB was a guess, Whatever it is, It's still quite a bit of space I wouldn't use and was just saying, I would like it 'optional'.
     
  16. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    I don't think that a new paperdoll has been "promised" to us. Anyway, I think there are many other unsolved problems with the EC that are more significant than the ugly paperdoll.
     
  17. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    Re:

    Forget that, truth is "There are many other un-solved problems" period.
    I don't think it's so much that EA/M doesn't put effort in UO as that their priorities are messed up..
     
  18. SchezwanBeefy

    SchezwanBeefy Lore Master
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    There is bigger frish to fry than a paper doll. IE : The many bugs the EC has.
     
  19. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    I disagree. The paper doll is the very FIRST THING new players see. The bugs are less apparent to them.
    Fix the paperdolls and be done with it.

    BTW, I'm not 100% happy with the female doll. They look too modern for UO.
     
  20. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    I'm not sure about a specific "promise" per se, but regardless of the number of "unsolved problems" with the Enhanced Client, the art team is most likely to correct the art issues, and less likely to code bug fixes with say non-stacking items.

    And... I'm with Silverbrook on this... they have indicated several times that they would be doing something with the male paperdoll because of how it looks, and it's been in the works for a long time.

    Regardless of any promise or implied promise or anything, one might think that the male paperdoll could have been revamped in less than four months:

    The interview was posted 25 February 2010.
     
  21. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Re:

    And the art team is unlikely to fix those many bugs.
     
  22. Tukaram

    Tukaram Guest

    Until the paperdoll shows up can I just use the good one we had in 3D, LBR era?
     
  23. Hehe - UO should have just stayed 2d for real, anything outside of that is crappy. But to each their own?

    I can go play Last Chaos - free to play that walks circles around UO as far as looks go. UO wasnt meant to be eye candy.
     
  24. canary

    canary Guest

    Actually, Hawkeye, it was discussed in the December House of Commons that the male paperdoll was being redone finally.

    Six months later... still nothing.
     
  25. slaveone

    slaveone Guest

    I totally agree with this. I even posted that they do this in the original KR and then SA beta testing forums. No one listened either time. I think it would have gone a LONG way in getting people to make the switch which is pretty much what i said then. One of the biggest downers of the EC is the horribly bad paperdolls they are to big to goofy and just all around poor recreations of the 2d dolls.

    I'm sure some people like the EC ones but thats why it would be a choice! Hands down i'd use the 2d dolls in a second instead of the EC ones if they were an option. If we could have those 2d dolls in EC i might even try using it seriously again instead of as just a novelty but only if they fixed those FUUGGGGLY hiryu's first which are WAY to big and the full body hue's look SOOOOO bad. Yet another thing i said looked terrible in beta that they never did anything about and to this day they are both still two of my biggest gripes....

    As for the guy who doesn't want to have to download a few extra megabytes to have more people take interest in the EC. GET OVER YOURSELF!
     
  26. Schuyler Bain

    Schuyler Bain Lore Master
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    I have to agree with you on this one LC. It seems like the simplest solution to the "problem." We have the other legacy options...
     
  27. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    Erm... when it comes to "priorities" that some of you mention here, take a moment to read the following...

    ...as reported on Gamasutra here: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24552

    That's where the new male paperdoll is... on a new 3D version of Ultima Online, aimed primarily at the Asian market. But who knows, if they provide the language support, maybe we'll see it in the West too.
     
  28. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Re:

    There are no new players. So your concept aims into the wrong direction.
     
  29. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I've been waiting for this "fix" since beta...

    Still waiting...

    As for the old 3d paperdoll... perhaps the old old one... but the one they had at the end NO..... I don't want my men looking like 12 year olds... absolutely NOT.

    Ok.... as for the Hiryu's and the colors... the DEVs suck lately at huing.... WHY does everything have to wash the whole item? Can't you partially hue things?? Stinks.... Seems to me anymore that with the DEVs its hue everything the same blah color.. and take out all the details....

    Sad but true.

    The EC hiryu is hideous. So is the dragon.... my poor dragons now have an inferiority complex.....

    DEV's... Take a look at the brown horse in the EC.... THAT is how things should be. You just look at it.... you'll see what I'm talking about.... and while we are on the subject.... Rune Beetles.... what did some kindergartener get ahold of a can of blue spray paint or what??? Get back to the drawing board! Look at the 2d beetle.. Make it so.
     
  30. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    First of all lets say we dont need events, we need a focus on the EC!

    Events are good but would be much better if the technical client side aspect would be improved.

    I dont say they did nothing the last months, but not much and very slow! Only thing i hear from a Dev QA QA QA??? And then they are releasing a patch with hammer bugs in it?

    What means QA, a coffee machine?

    I know big things need time, but this things are not big, this are only simple art fixes, nobody here wants impossible things! A bit more caring about old stuff, a view on the moongates or fields, a view on archers with mega arrows on screen, a bit PvP how others are jumping around the screen.

    I would say we dont need big events or new system, a revamp of older systems is much cooler for me than new things. Exciting old skills item identification, forensics, herding, treasure hunting, stealing, begging, disarming, etc. etc...

    And yeah we are in the position of asking this because we are paying for it!
     
  31. canary

    canary Guest

    You'd think UO would do something about having a dedicated artist. I mean... Grimm doesn't have to work part time at Wal Mart to supplement his income, does he? His position is 40 hours a week, correct? I know he only handles the technical aspect of the art, but if we aren't GETTING consistent new art I'm unsure what they do.
     
  32. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Warhammer?
     
  33. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    What are you on about, I met and play with many new players.

    Not to mention these art issues also annoy veterans.
     
  34. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Yes, exactly, why fix what isn't broken. Give us 2D paperdolls and I'd seriously start playing the EC.
     
  35. Fink

    Fink Guest

    And people say graphics don't matter.
     
  36. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Depends on which attachment you have to the graphics.

    If you for instance love a Van Gogh painting, would you still love it if someone "upgraded" it to current modern day ray trace modelling and complete repainting and remoddeling?
     
  37. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    If you are comparing the CC paperdolls to Van Gogh, please put down the crack pipe - you've obviously had enough.

    The CC is dated 13+ yo art. Its paperdoll is a bland milk toast manequin.


    The EC has a chance at becoming so much more than it currently is. It mainly needs a new male paperdoll, and a redo on many of the wearables. The female paperdoll is mostly acceptable, I've gotten used to the hooker pose after 2 years...
     
  38. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Its an example to show attachment to old art.

    Thats your OPINION, nothing more.

    As long as it has such crappy paperdolls, I certainly am not going to use the EC.
     
  39. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    It may be a bland, milk toast mannequin, but it is, at least, something I don't mind looking at. The EC paperdolls aren't something I'd attach the word "quality" to. The "faces" that they implemented (save the RP faces which are nice... though, god, why an "anime" face?) aren't all that great, and the poses and looks of both paperdolls are less than the quality standards of the 2D client.

    I look at most of the artwork that's come in the past few years and I wonder, "Who is approving this stuff?"

    Some of it looks great -- like whomever did the Halloween artwork, that actually fit the style of things. Other things would look fine if given the proper in-game perspective -- like the silver sapling tree, the anniversary cakes, and the horribly skewed codex of virtue (which I think would look awesome if someone would take whatever model it came from and shrink it to properly fit the game's perspective). Other stuff... other stuff makes me wonder what they were thinking. Several of the SA house tile sets are incomplete, and while I largely like the artwork added there, some of it makes me wonder -- particularly the brownish-red tileset where the edge of the walls are gray, meaning they don't line up well with the end of the wall at corners.

    I mean, it's just this continual inconsistency in artwork that really makes me wonder who's in charge of the art department, if there is an art department, and why little things like fixing tilesets or paperdolls haven't actually been done.

    Then again, many moons ago, the work on all kinds of dancing and other animations had been completed, and they'd just need to dole the out because they didn't want to make a huge patch. Yes, that'd be March 25, 2008, otherwise known as two years ago, well into the development of the UO:SA expansion and client, that the following was stated:
    I understand he was talking about the KR client, but given that the paperdoll didn't suddenly change between the two clients, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this stuff should have at very least made it into the EC, and yet, more than two years later, no sign of it at all.

    One might have you believe that art is hard, but my response would be, "Not for an artist." Given there's supposed to be some working on UO, it makes me wonder what's going on. Particularly given the recent state of a particular grandfather graphic that made it into patch where clearly no one bothered to check the animation of the other facing. What is going on with the state of art in UO?
     
  40. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Yea... housing tiles have always frustrated me. It's not like they dont already have all the graphics made: you can see them in in-game locations, but they randomly don't give us a full set, which tends to make all of it useless.
    How hard is it to add a few more wall types to the menu? It's not like they'd be innovating anything, but just repeating what they already have.

    To be perfectly blunt, the SA Housing Tile selection looks like it was still being worked on when it was released. And, from what we've seen from the other parts of SA, that's probably exactly what happened.
    A lot of the tiles are categorized in the wrong menus and such.
     
  41. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    *clears throat*......

    From what I recall and I'm going to try not to be bitter about this or get all irritated....

    I love UO HOUSING.... that's what I care most about in game....

    I started testing the Housing.... And when I began posting about all the FLAWS..... I was told that they weren't doing housing YET.... and to wait until they "asked" for input on the housing.....

    They never EVER did..... they released the SA client and all without ever FIXING housing....

    So I resigned myself to the thought that the Housing isn't ever going to be a priority nor is the stinking pile of Doo they call art.

    Not my paperdoll...... not the 100's of missing housing tiles.... not that hideous garbage they call the crystal tile set.... not the fact that half the housing tiles have no corners ..... not the clipping issues.... or the fact that all detail was removed from 90% of the sprites....

    Don't even get me started. *rolls eyes* I'm trying to be patient... really I am.... but my patience is nearing an end. I want to be able to look at my paperdoll without wanting to vomit.
     
  42. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Never said the EC dolls were quality, they are far from it. The male is furthest from any sort of quality with its constipated stance and malnourished looking musculature.

    Hopefully someone who was fired. GrimmOmen, I believe, admitted to approving the original blurry KR item art.

    Except for the fact that the ruined tapestry doesn't even remotely sit on the tile right in the EC. Art Dept. & QA failed there.


    This would require they care. It is reasonable to assume that they do not, or they would have taken the time to do the job right the first time. Professional pride is in short suppy at Mythic.
     
  43. RawHeadRex

    RawHeadRex Slightly Crazed
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    WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T LIKE THE CRYSTAL TILE SET ? ? ! ! ? ? :lol:
    I hear ya though, that house corner thing is odd I agree. Of course some of the art won't please all of us, but I like a lot of the art in game.
     
  44. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Oh, haha, had completely forgotten about that :D
    Too true, remember it now. *sighs*

    They still might, but I don't hold my breath for stuff like this. We've never even gotten the problems with the AoS tiles fixed.
     
  45. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    SA was rushed out the door nowhere near a state of completion and it wasn't properly tested.

    Which, honestlly, since they had FOUR YEARS worth of effort put into the expansion and associated clients, is inexcusable.

    Housing was broken.

    Art was atrocious.

    EC client was a mess. Yeah, yeah, its 'beta' - No, screw it, its not, thats just a cop out to their laziness and ineptitude.

    Ter Mur still has inaccessible lands, 10 MONTHS after release.

    Imbuing wasn't finished or balanced.



    And shockingly, many of these problems remain today. I doubt that any other MMO publisher would have released SA in the sorry state it was in. No wonder they don't advertise UO.
     
  46. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Re:

    I've been watching the community on Catskills for 3 years now. I haven't seen A SINGLE new player coming to this shard. All the players I see coming, are returning UO veterans, i.e. people who already have played UO in the past.
     
  47. TheGrimmOmen

    TheGrimmOmen UO Legend
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    Small correction, the female paperdoll update art was outsourced.

    Canary, do you have the text of the HoC that promised a new male paper doll graphic in December? Not that I doubt you, I just can't find out who said it. (Perhaps it's posted further down in the thread, I'll continue reading)

    Thanks,
    -Grimm
     
  48. TheGrimmOmen

    TheGrimmOmen UO Legend
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    Thanks Martyna,
    We were pretty happy with them () as well.

    -Grimm
     
  49. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    So are there any artists still working on UO? I find it strange that the female paperdoll would have to be outsourced.

    I've been looking for it myself and can't seem to find it, but I know the paperdoll's been discussed previously (several times) since the KR client.

    Given that at the same time the female paperdoll was outsourced, why wasn't the male paperdoll also outsourced? And since you're outsourcing, doesn't someone over there have "final right of approval" to accept such work? I ask only because while the female paperdoll is "acceptable," as many threads will attest, it's not the same feel as the 2D paperdoll. I understand that updated graphics won't look 100% the same, but they should keep the look and feel.

    The thing that many have pointed out about the female paperdoll in 2D is that it's a generic female figure... one that could be imagined to be a variety of shapes and sizes. Whereas the current KR/EC paperdoll is clearly "enhanced," shall I say.

    I'm not trying to offend, Grimm, just trying to understand the art procedure, because much of it I just don't get or understand. Months ago I posted a thread with some improvements to one of the SA tilesets. It didn't get a lot of feedback, so I didn't continue on with other tilesets on a weekly basis, though I've since mentioned something about stairs in the housing tool. My point though is how do some of these minor nuances get missed? I truly cannot imagine someone looking at some of this stuff and saying, "That looks good." Rather, I imagine the phrase, "That looks good enough for now." The problem, of course, with "good enough for now" is that it becomes "good enough forever."

    I'd love to know more about the process, because something seems missing.
     
  50. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    HoC chat logs can be found here:
    http://uohoc.stratics.com/

    For future reference the link is under the 'New and event's heading at the top of the left menu index of http://uo.stratics.com front page.
    I have no recollection of reading any promise of new paper doll art, nor can I find it in the logs.

    On the other hand, be careful what you wish for. I refuse to look at the paper doll of most of my chars in the EC. I have mature, sensible ladies, I have a ruff, tuff tom-boy type who likes to get into mischief. I don't have any 'sex objects'. I don't want my characters to be putting out 'come to bed' messages, thanks.
     
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