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Discussion in 'UHall' started by BajaElladan, May 6, 2009.
Topic says it all, where are questions pertaining to the skill of Herding intended to be discussed?
I'd think maybe the tamer forum. That'd be my best guess.
I know, I've tried to get the skill reclassed or the forum renamed. I'd argue there are marginally more shepherds still around than detectives, and the forum is a catch-all anyway, "Miscellaneous" would be a more meaningful name in most cases.
Shoot me a PM when you post, I'll be able to answer most questions about Herding.
Actually, that very subject is currently under discussion. Does anyone have suggestions what the Detective forum should be re-named to?
Here's my 2 cents worth,
Seeing as (according to the new thread tags) it covers camping, begging (?), detect hidden, forensics, herding and tracking, how about calling it the UO Ranger Forum or Outdoorsmen. Maybe someone smarter than I am could make outdoorsmen a little more PC.
I like Ranger Forum, but the problem with that is I believe that is the title you get with Animal Lore.
Brownies and Cub Scouts? heh... no sleep last night!
Yes, you get the title of ranger with taming and lore I believe. I don't think that would cause much trouble because very few people refer to tamers as rangers.
Beggar retained its own separate forum. At one point (when begging was included) the misc forum was going to be called UO Vagabond. I think within the current grouping we have:
Camping, Herding & Tracking = Bushcraft
Detect Hidden, Forensics & Tracking = Detective
"Bushcraft & Detective"? Not really a natural pairing. "PvP Thief & Detective" would be a good pairing for a single forum if they both were agreeable to it. Covers Scout types as well. Bushcraft could stand alone on Camping & Herding.
Without moving things around, or mincing words, I'd say simply "Miscellaneous". If you don't see something immediately listed, but you see a grouping called "misc", you're inclined to look there. As is, half of the skills in that group are misrepresented by the current title.
I think the nub of the problem is we're trying to group disparate skills into classes, whereas it's chiefly a classless game. I think the English expression is "pigeon-holing"?
Current suggestions under consideration are (in alphabetical order)
I just told my husband about this thread and he's suggested UO Pioneer. Only then he said 'because I like pies' ????!!!!
I vote for nomad.
Wouldn't it be "PIEoneer" then?
YA... I vote UO Pioneer, just because husbands get so little input!
ummmm "Hoo Dun It?"
he may have mis-heard I suppose. It could be 'pie on ear'
I would argue that Herding should stay in the tamer forum due in part to the usefulness it has with controlling pets. Most players have no idea how handy it can be, its still a tamers best friend if they know what they are doing.
Also the fact you can only herd creature types which can be tamed.
Seems Like a TAMER skill to me.
Click crook, click pet, click where want the pet to go pet draws agro's in area tamer safe and sound.
Click follow pet then herd it around as your leader.
Click crook, click animal you wish to tame, click self tame without wandering all over the map.
The Herding skill is a tamer skill it's much like animal lore in the way it has a good use with or without tame skill.
Glad it's not just me who thought "tamer skill" with herding I think herding has uses outwith taming, but you get the most benefit from it if you can use it to pull out wild pets or move your own tamed pets around. To me it's always been like the 4th taming skill.
Besides, it gives you a title of "shepherd" and a newbie tamer char starts with a crook, so that kinda sways it towards the animal handling side of things IMO.
I do feel strongly that Herding should not be melded into Taming.
I have to emphatically disagree with the notion that Herding isn't useful without taming. Herding can be coupled to a wide variety of skills. 90% of pvm is spawn management, Herding has this in spades.
As for Tamers benefiting from Herding, this can be true as in the pvm comment above. But the specific act of taming isn't enhanced in any way that would warrant the use of 100 skill points. Herding can stop animals wandering off as you're trying to tame them, but so can auto-following the animal which is a skill-less tactic. Having pets follow you implicitly isn't a problem any more, just an "all stop" "all follow" and they'll dumbly ignore anything else. Also, plucking a particular animal (say dragon) from a group for taming or killing isn't entirely dependant on Herding; simply flag on the creature and use invis judiciously. I think you'd find most tamers would rather spend the skill points on magery, bard skills, or spellweaving. But we don't couple those skills together as forums.
I'd wager there are more stealth shepherds than any other herding template, probably the most powerful combination for the skill. But it doesn't belong on the Thief or Ninja forums. Other templates that can benefit include bards (particularly provocateurs), warriors, mages.. just about anything you'd normally find "useful" can benefit from Herding in some way. Not naturally grouped with any of those.
There are also the "novelty" templates that include forensics, taste id, camping, etc, so herding doesn't naturally fit one category or the other. It is related to these skills in that it's not "mainstream" in its use.
Finally, on the subject of Herding vs Taming, I'd say it's like the Begging vs Stealing argument. Begging means asking, Stealing means taking. Herding means cajoling a creature, Taming means forcing it.
I think Camping's really the only skill that Herding naturally couples with, in a professional sense. Shepherds were hired to watch over farmer's animals and take them to new pastures for grazing, where the shepherd would make camp overnight. Herding one of the oldest known professions, one of the first instances of a service being exchanged for goods (and eventually money).
Rover, Wanderer, Nomad, Vagabond..
Call me what you will..
UO Detectives in the wild?
UO Wildlife park wardens?
UO Safari rangers?
UO Ophans? For orphaned skills?
If you do decide to re-assign the skills though, I do think herding should go under taming:
1) You get a crook as part of your starting equipment when you select animal taming/lore/vet during character generation.
2) Herding does complements taming better than herding complements camping or stealth.
3) Herding is listed under the "Wild" group of skills in both 2d and KR clients.
4) I have a stealth herder (after completing my tamer's training), and once of many reasons I have this template is to lead tames to a safer area for my tamer to tame.
Healing and anatomy I still think belongs better in UO Warriors.
They complement a warrior better than they complement mages/thieves/stealthers/detectives.
*sighs* Fink I don't think anyone said that herding is useless without taming.
Now, clearly you feel strongly that the taming forum isn't the place for herding. Fair enough. I could disagree with quite a few of your points, but it's just going to bog down the discussion if I do a post disection. Herding isn't just a bolt on skill to me, my main char views it as a vital part of her template and uses it far beyond pulling out spawn. If you look back on the posts on the tamer forum where folks have asked what herding can be used for, you'd see what I mean.
I simply suggested the tamer forum and explained my reasoning, because I felt that the tamer's forum has several active shepherds who use the skill fully and are in a position to offer good advice quickly to someone who asks us. The tamers forum has also had quite a few discussions about herding because folks have thought taming was the forum to ask on. All I'm interested in is that folks find what they want where they expect to find it in. And that they get answers in a timely manner. I'd have made exactly the same posts had I not been a tamer mod, it's not as if herding is a huge trophy skill to mod
Actually, it appears to not be listed under either heading: http://vboards.stratics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3.
I'll split off the re-naming of uo detective into another thread.
*Wonders what the OP wanted to ask about herding* heh