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Who wants a PKer-free non-AoS Classic Shard?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Tanivar, Mar 6, 2010.

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  1. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    The Classic Shard topic has been pretty much taken over by the Pker crowd. So here's one for the PvM crowd who don't want to wind up endlessly PKed if they go to the PKer Classic Shard to escape AoS.

    I figure those tired of the Item-based game will go to the Classic Shard PKland and be fun for the PKers for a while, then quit playing entirely.

    Who would like a skill-based Classic Shard with the Trammel ruleset so we can play without being PKed as normal play? I'm one who is willing to pay a monthly fee to have fun myself, but not pay just to be fun for others.
     
  2. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Ya know, sometimes I think I would jump on this, but really I see it being no different than the PvP-enabled "classic shard"... maybe a short blip of interest and long term languishing.

    But then, I've grown a bit tired of all these little side projects (even holiday stuff with new artwork) when there's an entire client that is a "second try" that has yet to be completed.

    Let's get some stuff FINISHED first before we start throwing together yet more stuff.

    UO's (and Ultima's) biggest failure regardless of dev team dating back at least as far as Serpent Isle has been not completing the planned product before it gets released.

    7 Part 2 was chopped off at the end, 8 and 9 were a mess, and UO has had time and again started a plotline and left it hanging, started a client and ignored it when halfway done (three times now), developed a land only part of the way, or ingored the concept of improving existing lands in favor of "yet more new land".

    Siege has felt this issue in a BIG way as well.

    Finish what's on the plate first, THEN think about the next.
     
  3. canary

    canary Guest

    I'm by no means a pk'er, but tbh 'classic shard' and 'something not including Tram' kinda go hand in hand.
     
  4. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Just for argument's sake...

    I think a "Classic Shard", whatever it may be would be better served to have only ONE copy of the Britannian facet. Whether or not it should be non-consentual or consent-only PvP (i.e. wide open PvP vs Order-Chaos being the de-facto "switch") is the main debate.

    For me, the fun of the early-pre UO:R days came in spite of the open PvP, not because of it. It was a different game, but in many ways, the box has been opened and can't be shut agian... people simply know the ways to "game the system" now (as compared to back then), so now the concept of hunting the East Woods of Britain is completely lost. When's the last time anyone went to "Titan Valley" in T2A? That place used to be CONSTANTLY busy. We've been given too many new reasons to PvM to make going back to that time be more than a passing interest for non-PvPers (and this is said as a non-PvPer).

    I dunno, I'm sure the dev team has had brainstorming meetings where someone has gone "What would it be like if we completely wiped everything and started over, what would we change about the world?", which is effectively what these "Classic Shard" arguments tend to be.
     
  5. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
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    A shard with Trammel cannot be called a classic shard.
     
  6. girana

    girana Adventurer
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    soo true
     
  7. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    Do you enjoy making stupid posts?
     
  8. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    I'm not sure what the point would be if there was no PKing. Like, just drop your skills to 100 and wear GM armor and go run around in Trammel on a normal shard. :/
     
  9. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    No offense meant here to the OP...but...


    LOL!!!!!!!!!

    I actually blew stuff out my nose when I read this...this guy is an extremely funny guy!
     
  10. Tukaram

    Tukaram Guest

    Right after Pub 16. That was the best Tram time I had in game.

    But now is good too.
     
  11. Rainfo X

    Rainfo X Guest

    I agree with the OP. I think it would be fun. I'm thinking of quitting, otherwise.

    *facepalm* since u dont understand: the game, as it currently is, is not balanced for 100 skills and GM armor... its balanced for 120 power scrolls and suits of godly gear... so that scenario with the game as it is, would be pointless... and PKing to a PvMer means u can get PKed... for a PvPer it means u can PK...
     
  12. Unsatisfied

    Unsatisfied Guest

    I'm happy to see this isnt getting much support,

    Tramell pre AoS shard will not survive, It will be entertaining for a little while but then people will get bored of it. The reason a non tram classic shard can survive and thrive is that there is always a challenge with pvp experiences be it consensual or non-con. No two pvp experiences are completely the same, there are a lot of variables. On top of that it encourages you to get involved in the community and there is a NEED for a community. A tram based classic shard will be as follows.

    Get some items and skills, go farm gold, bank sit and show off your leet pixels and bank accounts. The reason a post AoS tram shard has people still interested (as few as it does it still has some) is because there is more difficult challenges, more need for better gear and upgrades etc... So at least there is a few more things to do. The reason a fel only classic shard is the only way to go is because love it or hate it non con pvp keeps the old, otherwise stale game exciting, unexpected and community based.
     
  13. NewThunder

    NewThunder Guest

    Did you ever play in the "classic" era, yes there were PK's and you would get killed, but it wasn't endlessly. You learned to adapt, you made friends. The game used to have danger in it, now there is none.
     
  14. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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  15. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    1. I do not PvP, but voted for the Pub 16 PreAOS type shard.
    2. I played DAoC on the PvE only server they had at the time - B O R I N G.

    Therefore I am against your idea due to experiences in that environment. If going to SP would allow me to setup a refresh-needed type house I would gladly try my hand there if someone wants to teach a true noob.
     
  16. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    This classic shard crap is never going to happen, and I wonder, seriously, why people sit back and fantasize........pretty damn creepy.

    Seeing how Ultima is a computer game,....in your house, the next room, or basement.....does it really absorb someone that much?? I've seen trekkies, so I guess it does.

    Oh, and a shoutout to the Fel. carebear crowd.rolleyes:
     
  17. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    A true classic shard would have PKers, but not solely PKers. Moreover, classic PKers were often so-called honorable and generally avoided being d-bags.

    A new classic shard would be filled with the current-quality PKers, many of whom are just around to grief.
     
  18. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    ......The Mechanics of the game have not changed, so go fight all the same monsters you would have 13 years ago, or 12, or 11, or as far back as it is you want for it to be "classic". Don't get me wrong I am all for leaving tram in for me "classic" simply means less itemization, so pre-aos. People seem to think they created tram for no reason at all.....but let them I really do not care. Back to the "balance" the balance is fine for 100x7....its the change in damage types that changed the difficulty (altho the game is FAR easier now so I still don't see the argument)

    Just Figured I would quote you since it is true, only the current class of "pkers" would even try to play a "classic shard" and then most of them would stop, so how many 13 year old vet pvpers do we have in all of uo? enough to sustain an entire shard? And of those how many would even want to play on this type of shard? Sure there are quite a few on these boards crying about it, but I am willing to put money on the fact that less than 50% of them would even play, sure they would try but they would never last.
     
  19. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    If it does I'll be surprised, but I would love to be able to play UO:Ren or at least UO before it was trashed by AOS. The game was truely entertaining back then.

    I am indeed a Trekkie <laugh> :)

    I actually pretty much just maintain my plant crops & gather seeds as my UO playtime. I haven't gotten into the SA dungeon yet since I really assume it's just more supermonsters for the uber-gear players like ML was.

    UO isn't that absorbing anymore. It's being converted to an item-based game you had to put a ridiculous number of hours into to get those items effectively shut me out. I have a life. Though their were some home conflicts in RL over the time spent playing from fall of 2000 to when UO:AOS was inflicted upon the game. :)
     
  20. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Moreover, classic PKers were often so-called honorable and generally avoided being d-bags.

    Really? Are you sure? This seems like the rose colored glasses talking to me.

    And even assuming that that statement is in the least bit correct (attitudes are really no different now than they were then, I can assure you), do you REALLY expect a "classic shard" to bring that attitude back?
     
  21. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    No.
     
  22. Seriously? Are you playing the same game as the rest of us?

    Listen fluffy care bear people. Stay in Tram, set all your skills to 100, use GM non imbued or runic armor and wep, or regs and go kill drakes all day. There's your dream come true. Ultima Online started Online as a player killer style game. That is the true CLASSIC version.
    You couldn't ride horse's or lock things down in your house. We all started in neg karma back then. EA has put alot of effort into taking care of the tree huggers of this game so stop crying. Be glad people can't stealth in behind you into your house's and steal your items in chests and boxes now, Yes that's how it used to be. True Classic.
     
  23. canary

    canary Guest

    Actually, no. Developers just forgot to understand that people can be exceptionally childish given the anonymity of the internet and failed to take that into account with a proper Justice system in place. And yes, for the record, I DO pvp, and actually enjoy it. There is a difference though between PK'ing and PvP'ing.

    It started as a game you could make your own path. The player killing was just rampant as part of such things having no consequence in a virtual world.

    Personally, I would find it HILARIOUS if the restored a Classic shard with proper penalties for killers... character deletion when caught and killed and / or imprisonment of your character for a LENGTHY amount of time. LOL. I don't MIND PK'ing as long as rules are in place to make them realize that their actions may have severe consequences.
     
  24. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    Actually on Pac where I started, yes they were. More than once I was rezzed by the PK and then guided on how I could have avoided such-and-so move he had made. Did I get my stuff back? Not always and not all of it necessarily.

    Dry-looters and d-bags were not appreciated then and were hunted by more than a few reds.
     
  25. OK let me rephrase.... Ultima Online started as and ADVENTURE style game with PLAYER KILLING allowed...my point is, this game has fel/tram. Be happy people. Classic can be defined by, when during UO's life, a player started playing or, by it's release. And personally I know alot of tram players that are in need of some pking. So the rude and childish people sit on both sides of the fence.

    I personally have many red chars on 4 diff shards atm. I enjoy the fighting aspect of UO, so I will defend pking/pvping till the end.
     
  26. Argoas

    Argoas Guest

    many of you think that the only sense of not-trammel was only pvp. Man, there is more than pvp. When you gate to felucca, you know what to expect: reds.

    In a world where there is no safe zone, where the same place where you mine could be under attack, where the same road you take to reach your house could be under ambush, the same place where you bank could be full of thieves; in a world like this, danger really exist. But not danger as an evil concept, but as meaning of exciting, of a dynamic world, where you dont have to decide what to do because things come alone.

    In many games you can have a fun time, with friends, environment, etc... but how many can offers you this dynamism?

    Well, perhaps you know a free shard called Hybrid, from uo gamers. IMO the mos famous shard, and with no trammel.
     
  27. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    A classic shard missing some of the best aspects of the game back in 98-01 is not classic. PvP both sucked and ruled. Nothing was more annoying then killing harpies and a group of reds would roll in killing everyone but nothing was better then when 3 or 4 people stood up and fought sometimes winning and sometimes not but fighting non the less.

    The game, for myself, was all about killing be it red or blue. Guild wars and order/chaos. GM armor, true resist and parry. The game is colored with rose glasses for some but for a good many others who never tried to fight its smeared with green/brown.

    If only the OP had stood up and won just one single fight you'd know what all the pro PVP people are talking about.
     
  28. UO Crazed

    UO Crazed Guest

    No thank you...I don't want to play Sims Online.
     
  29. ATLPvPer

    ATLPvPer Journeyman
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    You. And only you.
     
  30. him and me too.
     
  31. Tukaram

    Tukaram Guest

    And me. Pub 16/Pre AOS.
     
  32. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Unless they make the classic shard with true penalties for being a PK or similar scum... ie, Theif. Then in my opinion it'll flop... because folk will get sick and tired of the BS really fast. The nostalgia for the "old days" will quickly wear off...

    Perhaps then folk will see that the current style if improved to balance out PvP is FAR better.

    And by true consiquences I'm talking about the same thing a Canary... serious jail time... where if caught being a PK and killing or stealing your character gets to sit in the clink.... for hours.. and hours and hours... and contemplate virtue... or your lack there of..

    No I think most folk who are nostalgic really miss the community... and the friendships... but will quickly remember what they really DISLIKED.
     
  33. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest


    Hybrid does not prove your point unfortunately, I am asking about currently paying customers. The ones who are on Hybrid are not looking to come back to pay for the same game play, Really saying a Free shard is Successful does not prove that one you have to pay for would.

    Think of something you normally wouldn't do, not because you don't enjoy it but for any other reason, now imagine if I offered it to you for free, for ever, and you started to do it/get it. Now imagine someone else came along and offered it to you for a price, are you really going to pay for it?

    Been around since the original beta, I had no gripes with the single facet game, I have "few" gripes about the game now. I am not of the opinion that playing a classic shard would be more fun, I am of the opinion that the game was more fun....but then I think it was more fun pre-aos, anytime before aos is a winner as far as the level of fun this game had. I do not appose the idea of a classic shard, but everyone should be realistic about it.
     
  34. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    That would be, quite possibly the most boring game ever. Hey look I have my full invl plate suit...and my vanq viking sword! Well...off to...uhh...kill more balrons to collect gold for...fun?

    Why do people not seem to understand that the fun of UO back in the day was NOT in the game systems. The game back then system wise was pretty bland. Don't get me wrong, it was the most fun I ever had in any game ever, but It had nothing to do with the properties of items, but it did have alot to do with pkers (and no, I was not one of them, but I understood their value in the world) and most of all... it had to do with the novelty.

    Such a setting would not be novel now. It would be like playing final fantasy 13, then going back to play ff1. It might be fun for a little while, but quickly you realize how monotonous, flat, and boring it is. Except it would be even worse playing classic UO without open pvp.

    A tram only preaos game would NOT be fun.
     
  35. Whinemaker

    Whinemaker Guest

    I just want a lamer and griefer free Classic shard.
     
  36. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Actually I have fought PvP. The character bearing the name I use in these forums, my origonal Forager, is a Mage with bandage healing. The bandage healing was to let him heal while doing mana dumps on PKers who would jump him. An effective combo. It was satisfying suckering in PKers who loved to jump Miners & Loggers but wasn't any fun. To dang many of the dips in the game back then.
     
  37. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Actually it would be very fun. :)

    Seriously, look where most of the players play. They are in Tram, Not Fel.

    Fel is a Ghost Town because most players prefer not being PKed.
     
  38. canary

    canary Guest

    Ehn, I'd kill to see a line of people again at Brit Smithy to repair their Power Katanas and such.
     
  39. Unsatisfied

    Unsatisfied Guest

     
  40. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Yeah, and there are things to do in tram. In the pre aos world...there were not. You sat behind the wall in hythloth, and cast evs, till the pks showed up, or you sat at the brit forge making new items for people who had been pked.

    That was about it, and without the pks... it would be even MORE dull.

    No one would play this shard...other than you I guess. :p
     
  41. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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  42. Amren

    Amren Journeyman
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    PKs are what made UO challenging.

    Challenge in this game died during UO:R. I'd love to be able to kill peeps and loot them dry again, then go after their houses.
     
  43. Why would we need non-pvpers to hunt? You are perpetuating the sterio-type that all PvPers were noob killers, which is completely untrue.

    PvPers are those who seek others to fight with. Why do you need people who do not like to PvP to engage in PvP? As long as there are other players, there will be someone to engage in PvP against. And if those players are indeed true PvPers then the combat will be good and engrossing and will make for a high quality experience.

    I personally would rather fight against seasoned and experienced PvPers than fight someone who doesnt know what they are doing. It keeps things interesting. A challenge keeps people coming back. Its the staleness of easymode that made people lose interest.

    If anything would make a classic server boring is if the non-PvPers did play. Because, as soon as you kill one, they will be right here on the forums or paging a GM and the river of tears and griefer cries will begin.

    So what if the non-PvPers stay on the AOS shards? Good riddance. The classic server will attract the PvP minded, those who seek danger and excitement. We will fight with and compete against and work with eachother, testing our skills against people who know what they are doing.

    And that is REAL PvP.
     
  44. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    I struck the triple peanut !!!

    *takes a moment of silence*
     
  45. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Do what I did back when I played so heavily between joining UO in the fall of 2000 & the screwing up of UO when item-based AOS got dumped into it. Explore, hunt, adventure, craft, put up with the stud-talking PKers who would charge up and waste my double-resource-gathering miner & logger in fel then talk tough & manly to their victim, etc. :)

    Why do you think only Fel has the double-resources, the big powerscrolls, and such. EA is trying to bait enough people into Fel to try and keep the PKers happy so they don't quit.

    The PvPers in Fel don't need the easy victims to have fun.

    There are a few exceptions to the rule I'm sure. But the rule, and fun destroying (except for the PKers) fact is that PKers are a bane to the game. They have their fun ruining the fun of others. Why Fel is a Ghost-town.


    There are some who do this, but like the police in RL, they are badly outnumbered and the PKers can ruin the fun of a lot of people between
    the occasions where their fun gets crimped and they have to re-equip to go kill more crafters, foragers, and newbies.

    It's been said PKers have left UO because of the creation of Tram where people were able to go to escape the PKers. Aw shucks... The poor little PKers had to go somewhere else for their fun at others expense... golly... gee... whillikers... I feel so guilty.... <g> Hopefully the door didn't whack them in the rear on the way out.


    I don't really enjoy modern post AOS UO. To dang item-based.

    Why I don't play all that much other than what Crafting there is to do that doesn't take hunting supermonsters or paying fortunes for an ingredient At the moment, I grow plants to sell and hunt tram, the lost lands, and Ilsh.



    The few in Fel apparently agree with this. The many in Tram apparently don't find this exciting.

    I can believe they quit due to Tram. Nearly all the easy targets moved to Tram where they were safe from the PKers. That alone probably made Fel badly underpopulated and is why EA has put so many game goodies in fel to try amd draw in targets to fel. Sadly for the PKers, most know it's bait and have passed on it, so PKers have left as well. No easy targets to have fun with.

    I wouldn't be demanding new items. EA giving in to the demands for items is why we got shafted with AOS.

    There was no insurance back then youngster. Things got lost in PvP & PvM both. Crafters had to replace things and had a steady business.

    You have kept mentioning farming throughout your post.

    What would a classic shard with fel only rules give you to farm? The possesions of those you PKed? :)
     
  46. Unsatisfied

    Unsatisfied Guest

    You keep asking this and I keep giving you the same answer, everyone from fel quit because the game and community aspect that made the one facet game so enjoyable was destroyed by tram, followed by AoS. The only thing left in fel are litte kids that only started playing post tram thinking they are top **** pvpers now cos all the good pvpers quit a long time ago, whom annoy anyone who is left in fel cos they are pre pubescent little ******s. THAT is why fel is a ghost town.

    Like you said you played from 2000 onwards so I can kinda forgive this stupid remark but let me explain things to you. In pre tram days blues FAR outnumbered the reds. Sure there were newb reds that could go and get some easy kills if they wanted to, but without fail they would soon be hunted down by a massive gank squad of blues who can all hide in town guards untill they are ready to outnumber and crush the newb reds. And once the gank squads of blues caught wind that reds were about doing this, they would stay on their ass way past the point where they re-equip and go and try and attack a crafter again. Blues had far more dedication to destroying reds than reds did pestering newbs.



    Not just the pkers mate, the GOOD pvpers in general. Pvp has never been the same since the introduction of tram, and its not just for the pure pkers sake. blue pvpers no longer have an abundant ammount of GOOD pkers to go and fight, there is still pvp wars around but its a different story to red vs blue pvp. On top of that, for the people who wernt pure murderers there was always a good reason to take a count from time to time, which just cant happen in tram pvp, your out chasing someone and some annoying blue is casing fields and stuff blocking you etc... you can take a count on him and get rid of him... not with tram... invincible thanks to tram law. Just little things iike this all add up to things pushing good pvpers out of the game.

    something we can agree on.



    see previous point about the "few" in fel

    Too be honest I dont know why I keep arguing with you about the "all pkers want is easy targets" point, youve admitted to only playing from 2000 onwards, you cant have a really good idea about what it was like.
    And giving into the demands from people crying about pks is why we got shafted with Tramell. so who are you to complain about being shafted due to complaints about one thing, but then not understand when we complain about being shafted for another?
    Youngster?
    Who the hell are you calling youngster mr self proclaimed player since 2000?
    I played Alpha when the graphics looked nothing like even 2d UO, when the majority of the britannian banks didnt even exist, and I'm being called youngster and told about how there was no insurance pre aos by you?

    Anyway to your point about things being lost in pvm... You have to be pretty bad to lose anything at all in pvm back then when tram was introduced. It wasnt hard at all to get a res and get your stuff back even IF you died to the low quality mobs there were to pvm back then in tram.

    My point is not that you have anything different to farm in a fel setting rather than a tram setting, my points are as follows

    a) due to non con pvp theres also a risk of losing things, so items you do get arnt as secure, which makes them rarer/harder to get/more rewarding to have

    b) it wont be one stale pvm experience after another because there is a risk of non con pvp breaking out at any time,

    c) the pks that are coming to get you create a community spirit, helping other people was a big factor in fel only uo. UO these days on most servers you can go out to dungeons or whatever for days and not see a single person, fel only uo you would come across people everywhere, and you at one point or another needed other people to help you.

    tram killed the need for a uo community.
     
  47. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    I think the players have already voted on this question, based on the numbers of players who pvp v. non-pvp. While I admit it would be lovely to be able to kill someone script farming, script looting, script spamming anywhere in the game... the drawbacks far outweigh the benefits for the majority of players.
     
  48. Unsatisfied

    Unsatisfied Guest

    Where are you getting this information? Because the only place im seeing more support for a tram only classic server is this post which is dedicated purely to people who want a tram only classic server, and even here I dont see an overwhelming ammount of support compared to what there is on other threads that are similar but are directed to both sides of the argument.
     
  49. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    There isn't a whole lot of support for a "classic" shard of either type, except from a vocal few here on the boards.
     
  50. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    I apologize for the 'youngster' slipping into that post. Wasn't relevant to the discussion.

    You clearly feel a game without non-consensual PvP can't be fun. I, and the many others who play in Tram clearly feel otherwise.

    Let the evidence of where most players play settle the issue.
     
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