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Why am I hitting damage cap?

Discussion in 'UO Warrior' started by sibble, Oct 11, 2013.

  1. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    Undead Slayer Talisman
    Undead Slayer Weapon
    49% DI on suit...

    I cast EOO on Zombie Skeleton, and I don't do anymore damage than I did without it. I should be doing more damage since my slayers + suit does not hit the 300% damage cap, right?
     
  2. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    How much chivalry skill do you have?

    My recollection is that EOO adds 50% (at 84 chiv) of your suit DI, but it may be giving you the full max bonus because of the double slayers.
     
  3. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    51.0

    +47% according to Pinco's.

    I think you are correct sir... the question is, is it supposed to be this way or is it a bug?
     
  4. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    I don't know for sure, but I doubt it is a bug. The combat damage system has been in place for years without any major change. I have not seen him on the boards lately, but Logrus has the best insight as an ex-dev. Youay want to read the stickied 120 Chiv thread here in the warrior forum. Logrus gave great insight into the damage calculations including how EOO and CW work.
     
  5. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Ive done alot with damage increase and think i understand it pretty well. i doubt i do tho.
    This Does make sense according to UO guide: " In other words, the lesser slayer weapons alone achieve the maximum damage modifier effect. To put it into perspective, your total damage modifiers can be up to 3x the final base damage." ---uo guide.
    2 super slayers would be 400percent? i am assuming. while cap is 300percent.

    However, what i Dont understand is why Enemy of One gives you additional damage when using a lesser slayer. According to UO guide Enemy of One is part of the Second modifier, not the first.
    The way uo guide is writen, i would think enemy of one should not give additional damage when using a lesser slayer, but it in fact does.
     
  6. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    2 Super slayers would be 200%
    2 Lesser slayers would be 400%
     
  7. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    Only thing I could think of is that there is some penalty for using 2 super slayers.
     
  8. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Do you use armor ignore?
    Post your base damage (in stats window) and max damage you do in each combo talli/weapon/eoo.
     
  9. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    No I'm not using AI and sigh...

    I wish someone could answer my question instead of multiple people coming up with possibilities. Yes I know that a lot if not most people don't understand what 300% is but I CLEARLY state what is happening.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
     
  10. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    You get +100 from the tally and +100 from your weapon. It's enough to get 300% damage cap.
     
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  11. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    How does 100 + 100 = 300?
    If you're assuming I have 100 on my suit, in this situation - I don't.
     
  12. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    300% damage cap means you can do 300% damage. You need 200% bonus to do 300% damage.
     
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  13. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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  14. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    Damage Increase on my suit doesn't count toward's the 300% damage cap?

    You're wrong.

    The only things that don't count towards the 300% Cap are: STR, Tactics, Anatomy, Lumberjacking.
     
    #14 sibble, Oct 13, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013
  15. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    This is very simple I don't know why this thread has gone this way...
     
  16. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    I think the base DI does indeed matter. But in this case his 49 DI ( effectively 50) is overcome by the EOO giving him a full 50 bonus due to the slayers.

    Has the OP tried removing one of the slayers and seeing what it does to your damage? I might give you an indication of the interplay between the slayers and your EOO bonus in this situation.
     
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  17. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    Lemme pull some numbers, will get back to ya momentarily.
     
  18. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    All these numbers are including 45% DI on my suit:


    Max hit with 2 x Undead Slayers = 72 dmg
    Max hit with 1 x Undead Slayer = 44 dmg
    Max hit with 1 x Undead Slayer + EOO = 64 dmg

    Max hit with 2 x Undead Slayers + EOO = 72 dmg??
     
  19. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    Interesting. Now are you able to test 100 DI and double slayers using the same base weapon?
     
  20. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    I can do that, gona have to get back to you later though I got 20 shimmering runs and 6hrs to do them in hehe.

    I'll make a weapon to test this later this afternoon.
     
  21. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    I can just repeat:

    DI on your suit affects your Character Base Damage (CBD). It's easy to check, isn't it? Just check you damage in the stats window, equip jewels with DI, check again.

    And it doesn't count to 300% damage cap. This cap means your max real damage is 3x CBD. It's easy to check, isn't it? Take off all DI items and check your damage with a double slayer, EOO, Honor. It will not be more than 3x of your CBD.
     
  22. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    Damage increase, from items, counts towards the 300% damage cap.
     
  23. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    There are 2 different 300% Caps.

    http://stratics.com/community/threads/120-chiv.286917/#post-2192380
    There are 2 Caps, there's the damage Increase cap, and the damage multiplier cap.
    You are at the damage increase cap. Enemy of One and Consecrate weapon act like slayer damage which is modifier damage. They will multiply that 300 you already have by up to 300% more. If you have other modifiers in effect (Slayer, Perfection, Bard) you only need enough chiv to get you to 300 multipliers to hit max damage. If you don't have bushido/perfection, then 120 Chiv will get you close (98%) to the damage you'd do with perfection, without the headache of worrying about honoring the target.

    The formular for damage is like this
    Damage = (X + W(X) + T(X) + A(X) + S(X) B(X)) * M
    X is your base weapon damage
    W is your Damage Increase (Capped at 100)
    T is your Tactics Damage Increase Factor
    A is your Anatomy Damage Increase Factor
    S is your Strength Damage Increase Factor
    B is your Bards Inspire Damage Increase factor (up to 64%)
    The Cap % for W,T,A,S is 300% (Your damage increase cap)

    Your base Modifier is 100%
    Super Slayer is bonus 100% to your multiplier
    True Slayer is bonus 200% to your multiplier
    Perfection is 10% bonus per level up to 100% to your multiplier
    Enemy of One is up to 82% bonus @120 Chiv to your multiplier
    Concecrate weapon is up to 16% bonus @ 120 to your multiplier
    Honor self is bonus 25% to your multiplier
    Bard Inspire Damage Modifier is up to 15% bonus to your multiplier
    Grapes of Wrath is 10% bonus to your multiplier. (edit: Forgot this)
    The Cap for all your multipliers is 300%


    Hope I didnt overload you there.
     
    #23 NuSair, Oct 13, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013
  24. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Looking at what Logrus posted there, if you are using 2 undead slayers, you would be at the damage cap, without EoO.

    You start at 100% of your damage... makes sense.
    Undead slayer 1 is +100%
    Undead slayer 2 is +100%

    That's 300%
     
    #24 NuSair, Oct 13, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013
  25. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    If you know all why are you asking?

    I said you how it works and said you how to check in the game that it works this way. What else do you want?
    Can you suggest a test that would prove your position?
     
  26. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Really you needn't 100 and 100 bonuses. Those bonuses are Damage Multipliers. So you need 100% and 50% to get 300%: 100% * 2 * 1.5 = 300%.
     
  27. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    ummmm, no.

    You add up the multipliers... you don't multiply them.
     
    #27 NuSair, Oct 13, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013
  28. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    It's more like 100 (base) + 82 (EoO) + 100 (Superslayer) = 282%
    Not 100%*1.82*2 = 364% (capped at 300%)
     
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  29. Vexxed

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    1) What Logrus posted.
    2) You cant have this discussion with 99% of UO players without getting similar terminology mixed up.
    3) A quick rule of thumb.. X is the damage range displayed in your status bar. If something changes X then you MUST max that something to its cap if you want to be doing max dmg when you add in "multipliers" (aka slayers / perfection / Eeo)
    4) 3X is the cap.. aka... 1 LESSER slayer OR 1 Super slayer + perfection OR a few other combinations that would require me to google up...read Logrus numbers again....its all there.
     
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  30. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    You can reach the cap with just SuperSlayer and EOO.
     
  31. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    Always wondered if slayers stacked, but never tested it.

    I wonder if you take double the additional damage against the opposed group.

    -Lorax
     
  32. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    That would be some kind of painful.
     
  33. Obsidian

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    Ok, I see as well. So two caps. One is your DI which caps at 100 DI. And then a second for the bonus to 3x. So you assume your base damage is 100%. Super slayer adds 100%, specific slayer adds 200%, EOO adds 50% at 84 Chiv, perfection adds 100%, etc for a cap of base (100%) plus up to 200%.
     
  34. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    As I know there are also "negative" multipliers (like AI and DS).

    If you use a slayer then you need other 50% to get the cap. If you also use AI you probably need other 67%.
    This can be easily tested on TC by adjusting Chiv spell. Karma doesn't affect EOO bonus.

    p.s. I'm still not sure how AI/DS penalty works.
     
    #34 CorwinXX, Oct 14, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  35. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    AI is 90% of your max damage.
     
  36. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    That's kinda right.

    Your personal, DI from items is capped at 100 (W is your Damage Increase (Capped at 100)). That is part of the damage increase, which overall is capped at 300 (The Cap % for W,T,A,S is 300% (Your damage increase cap)) . Included in that is bonuses from strength, tactics, anatomy, ect....

    Then there are damage modifiers, which is separately capped at 300% (The Cap for all your multipliers is 300%).

    Also of note, bard songs are not limited by those caps.
     
    #36 NuSair, Oct 14, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  37. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    There is no the first "300 damage increase cap".
    With an axe you can get 85 CBD (326 DI).
     
  38. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    The formular for damage is like this
    Damage = (X + W(X) + T(X) + A(X) + S(X) B(X)) * M
    X is your base weapon damage
    W is your Damage Increase (Capped at 100)
    T is your Tactics Damage Increase Factor
    A is your Anatomy Damage Increase Factor
    S is your Strength Damage Increase Factor
    B is your Bards Inspire Damage Increase factor (up to 64%)
    The Cap % for W,T,A,S is 300% (Your damage increase cap) <<<----------------------------------


    Yeah, there is. (no offense, I'll take Logrus's word over yours)

    And if you want to look at it that way, you can exceed both caps with a bard song.
     
    #38 NuSair, Oct 15, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  39. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    I'd say the extra is from lumberjacking and that also allows you to exceed the cap.
    Lumberjack Damage Bonus% = Lumberjack ÷ 5 (Add 10% if Lumberjacking >= 100)
     
    #39 NuSair, Oct 15, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  40. CorwinXX

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    Could you give me any example when this cap is taken in account? (when your damage is cut due to this cap)
     
  41. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Yes, I have read this. But I haven't tested this myself and didn't know any person who tested this. So I can't be sure (although I believe it's true). I noticed that even stratics and uoguide are wrong sometimes.
     
  42. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    You start at 100% of your damage... ok I can agree with this. But you're adding it into damage INCREASE which makes 0 sense to me!?
     
  43. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    What I'm saying is, 200% of your BASE DAMAGE is +100% DAMAGE INCREASE

    so Undead slayer 1 is +100%
    undead slayer 2 is +100%

    thus, your at 200% damage INCREASE
     
  44. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    This is not completely true.
    At GM Lumberjacking you get 30% or 100% Damage Increase. I think that probability to get 100% Damage Increase is about 10-15% but I'm not sure. So GM Lumberjacking at average gives you about 40% Damage Increase.
     
  45. Obsidian

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    I've long read 90% too, but AI seems to be capped at exactly 3x your max damage amount of your weapon. My bladed staff is capped at 63 and my highest AI seems to be 189 (exactly 3 times).
     
  46. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Special Move modifiers (usually) are Damage Multipliers so they are subject to 300% cap (this is why moves like Crushing Blow are useless in PvM). So you can get 3x damage.

    I believe you need slayer and 67% EOO (about 103 chivalry?) to get 300%:
    2 * 1.67 * 0.9 = 3

    All my chars have 120 chivalry or have 120 bushido and honor targets before AI.
    I know that 82% EOO + slayer is enough to do 3x damage but I don't sure about exact chiv amount needed. May be i will check this on TC but really this question hasn't practical value for me. Even when my char has 95 chiv the first hit gives me 12% honor damage that compensates AI penalty (if it exists).