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Why are super slayers so rare? (runics)

Discussion in 'UO Craftsman' started by sean_lo, Feb 20, 2008.

  1. sean_lo

    sean_lo Guest

    I don't get it.

    I have spent over 30 bronze runic hammers, 30 copper, about 40 shadow. A couple of gold, agapite and even a valorite.

    Total attempts = 30x35+30x40+30x50=3750 attempts!

    I have not made ONE single undead or demon slayer.
    I have made two arachnid slayers, and one reptile slayer.

    What is the logic behind making super slayers absolutely ridiculously rare? It is EASIER and CHEAPER to obtain an artifact with a super slayer than to craft one from a runic hammer. This is an obvious sign something is wrong with the system.
    Someone back me up here.
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I've made some pretty badass lizardmen slayers, troll slayers, and spider slayers. I make at least two of these per runic hammer. It's all about consistency.

    Almost forgot about the earth elementals and terathon slayers. Those are ubiquitous also.
     
  3. GOT UO

    GOT UO Guest

    Yo man dont fell bad keep pluggin took me 80 mil to get a demon kat with 40 mana 40 damage but i love it and im giddy to own it
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi there,

    there are 36 different properties,slayer property is included here.
    There are a total of 18 ordinary slayers and 6 superslayers.

    There are a few different ways to roll this.


    Worst case scenarion is that they roll in 3 steps.
    Superslayer is added to the 18 slayers making 19 and what superslayer to be on weapon is decided in a new roll.

    Probability to make a slayer: 1/36.
    Probaility to make a superslayer: 1/36*1/19=1/684
    Probability to make the exact superslayer you want:1/36*1/19*1/6=1/4104

    Im countig properties meaning that it even looks worse for you than you first thought.
    Terrible sorry about that.
    [​IMG]

    30 Bronze hammers is 30*35*3=3150 properties.

    30 Copper hammers is 30*40*2.5=3000 properties

    40 Shadow hammers is 40*45*2=3600 properties

    You have had a total of 9750 properties rolled.

    Thats alot of properties.

    You should have made about 9750/684=14 superslayers ! !

    If you haveny read my thread "The quest for making all warfork superslayers" do that.Its on page 5-6 something here on smiths forum.I used 130+ Bronze hammers,2 Gold hammers and 2 Agapite hammers until I finally made the missing reptile slayer...

    What I noticed was that the flawed RNG is making us insane.
    If I made a superslayer I always used a few hammers after that because I know that I wouldd get another superslayer really soon.

    As most I got 4 superslayers from a total of 2 Bronze hammers that I swinged with no iterruption.


    Leurocian hinted a week ago that that probability is different for different properties and thats news for us brave smiths.



    Regards
    The Scandinavian
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi again,

    I reread my therad and picked up the final score.

    All smiths with a poor heart really should find a nice chair to use because this is a HORROR tale.

    Runics used:134 Bronze hammers,2 Gold hammers and 2 Agapite hammers.

    Total of properties:134x35x3+2x30x3,5+2x25x4=14070+210+200=14480 properties.

    Total of superslayers:22

    Properties per superslayer: 14480/684=21 superslayers.

    I actually almost hit the spot on for probability.


    I did it the following way.I alwys used at least 5-6 hammers without a break,if I did score a superslayer I always swínged a few more.

    If I didnt made a superslayer the first 5-6 hammers I used 5-6 more or quit for the day.I never swinged more than 10 in a row if I had not made any superslayer.


    I hope that did make any sense to you.
    When I started to make warforks my intention was to make all my favourie fencer weapons in all superslayers.
    I guess I wont do that now.


    Regards
    The Scandinavian
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I burned a bunch of runics, agapite (total bust), 5 bronze, and 8 copper ended up with 1 super slayer, a reptile slaying Kryss which also has mana leech and HLD [​IMG]

    Got oodles of the totally useless regular slayer types of course, really is lizardman slayer neccesary?, a naked newbie with 50 weapon skill can kill one.... Has anyone even looked at a Terathran or Ophidian in oh the last 2-3 years?

    I think slayer should be a rarer property, but any slayer you make should be super, aside from dragon the regular slayers are pretty much unneeded in todays game.


    Rey~
     
  7. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Some of them, but not all of them...

    There are actually a number of uses for the regular slayers.

    The Reptile-group normal slayer types:

    The much maligned lizardman slayer, in the hands of a human, becomes a means for a person running only crafters to acquire spined leather (especially if there is HCI on the weapon).

    Snake slayers work on Yamandons and Serado, and it's a lot easier to find a really good weapon with the "wasted" snake slayer property, than to find a reptile slayer similarly endowed. IIRC, they also work on sea serpents, for fishers.

    Ophidian slayers came in handy during the invasion, and during the blackrock period, when one of the major BR spots was right next to a swarming mass of ophids, that people traveling in on foot (or running in panic from BREs) would drag into the mining area, usually by accident.

    Changes I'd recommend: Combine snake & ophidian slayers, and make Juka fall under lizardman slayer.


    Elemental-group slayers:

    Earth elemental slayers: the most popular, especially for miners who enjoy hunting with gargoyle picks. The one glaring oversight, unless fixed recently, is that Dull Copper Elementals (which are found in some dungeons and one spot in compassion desert) aren't part of the slayer family for this minor, only the Elemental superslayer.

    Snow elemental slayers: These were changed a couple years ago to include Ice Elementals. Not checked them yet, but they may also work on the Prism elemental room, for key gathering. I personally have one with Valorite-hammer-level properties, that I've used whenever friends asked me to go hunting Ladies of the Snow (which are undead). The sword kills the eles in 1-2 hits, and despite NOT being a slayer for the lady, drops her in 3 hits, if one is an armor ignore. (I also have an Undead/snow ele slayer from the old Uzerran quest, but it doesn't work as well).

    Blood & Poison elemental slayers: these work great for farming these creatures, which are high loot, and like any other normal-level slayer, much easier to find with great mods than a super similarly powered.

    The Fire, water, and air ele slayers are the big waste. Too limited a selection, and not much one could add to them.

    Changes I'd recommend: Do away with Fire, water & air slayers, or merge them with other slayers. Have it based on their 2D form and polar opposites (one for Poison, Air, Earth & snow, one for fire, water, blood and add acid eles and efreet to it, from the superslayer-only category). Add the elementals from SE to one or the other.

    Repond-types:

    Orc and Ogre are the most popular sub-types, for obvious reasons (well, maybe not too obvious for orcs, but my fellow smiths will understand from 4 words - Orc Brute Shadow Iron).

    Changes I'd recommend: merge troll in with Ogre, (if it isn't already) put Troglodyte in with Orc or Ogre (better for balance to go with orc), and add a human slayer that works on the human NPCs, instead of them being repond super, only.

    Arachnid-types:

    Spider slayer has always had its uses, though diminished somewhat by the dread spider changes (why the scripters have to go ruin it for people that would hunt them for fun)

    Terethan slayer has its niches, like the ophid slayer.

    Scorpion slayer would be a joke, if it wasn't for Miasma (but a really sweet scorpion slayer will sell for big gold to a Miasma farmer).

    Changes: Of all the slayers, this is the one I see merger of all into one group to be the most beneficial for (well, it and Demon types - see below).


    Demon-type:

    Gargoyle slayers should be converted to Demon slayers with the release of Stygian Abyss, to prevent confusion.


    Undead: already just one slayer. If any recommendation, Skeletal dragons should be affected by these as well as dragon/reptile, because they ARE an animate creatable by necromancers.

    Fey: Needs to be a craftable.

    Others:
    An Insect slayer (like the beetle slayer, plus solens, ant lions, etc.) would be a welcome addition to weapons.
     
  8. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    I was wondering why my earth elemental slayer wasn't working on that DC ele in Compassion.

    I didn't know it's a bug.
     
  9. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Craftable beetle, vermin, and mage slayers would be nice.
     
  10. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Originally, Dull Copper elementals were part of a group of ore eles that spawned naturally, before the gargoyle picks.

    When the Gargoyle pickaxes were introduced, the other types stopped spawning in the wild, and were remade into the familiar (to miners) Shadow-Valorite elementals with 25 large ore inside. Dull Copper was not, which is why it only has 2 DC large ore inside. In the process, they didn't add "Earth Elemental" into its slayer vulnerability, when they did the others, so only the Elemental super slayer works on them.

    Of course, another burning question - why aren't Alligators in the Reptile slayer list? Sure, they're easy enough to kill for my T-hunter, but it would be nice to let those much more vulnerable (say, someone trying to learn T-hunting the hard way, on an all-50s character after leaving New Haven) be able to hit the gatorsas hard as their buddies the serps, since both are found in the same area and tend to gang up on you (Valor island, Bald island, Skull island, and other hellpits of reptilian death)
     
  11. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    If you want an undead slayer - craft a silver etched mace using a recipe. If you get UBWS as a mod - any dexer can use it. In less than one bronze hammer and 35 diamonds - you will have a useful undead slayer.

    The specials are concussion and paralyzing blow.
     
  12. Lilac Crypt

    Lilac Crypt Guest

    There is just a meanness about the RNG that isn't random. [​IMG]

    I have a macer that I figured I'd send out to kill earth elementals in an effort to collect chocolate ingredients. Oho.. I shall quickly whip up an earth elemental slaying war hammer, sez I!

    Ha ha ha ha... bleh.

    I went through three runic hammers. I made an air ele slayer, a poison ele slayer, a blood ele slayer, a fire ele slayer, a SNOW ele slayer, dragon slayers, lizardman slayers, scorpion slayers.. not a single earth elemental slayer. (Or of course an accidental superslayer elemental type.) It was as though it KNEW what I wanted and just snickered and rolled the dice with malicious intent.

    I even made a repond slaying war hammer. So I got mad and sent my macer out to kill ratmen and gave up on smithing for the night.

    Wasn't the same, but at least I wasn't quite as angst-filled with having no weapon that I could use.

    Damn that RNG!!

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Yup, it definately knows when you want a certain mod and avoids it like the plague. I burned a bronze runic making Kryss and at least 20% had SSI (which unless yer a low dex dexxer isn't needed). I then used another bronze to make hammer picks (a weapon that needs ssi) and used 25 charges before 1 with SSI popped up. Of course half had sc-1 or mage weapon.......



    Rey~
     
  14. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    During the Orc invasion 2-3 years ago, I promised a guildmate I'd make them an orc slayer. After all, I always seemed to make 1-3 orc slayers per DC hammer, so it should be easy, right?

    I burned ELEVEN DC hammers, no orc slayer. I then burned a shadow hammer. Nothing.

    Finally, on my 13th hammer (a DC I found lying around the house), after making two other superslayers (reptile and Demon), I make a Repond slayer - Two swings before I finally get an orc slayer (I had a macro I'd hit the key for to make 10 items at a time for BOD filling).

    IT was a definite WTF moment.....
     
  15. Redrum1

    Redrum1 Guest

    I do not try often to make slayers, but I had to see what I could do now that the new properties were added to the runics. I only burned through a few bronze hammers with some gold(wanted to see if I could get a 140 katana). After 4 runics I got:

    A 140 Luck katana
    A 137 Luck katana with SC
    A 135 Luck katana Pioson Ele. Slayer
    A couple Dragon Slayers and a few more slayers I did not have a collection of yet to be stored away for events.

    Atleast it is better than what we could have gotten two weeks ago.
     
  16. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    Took me 2 dull copper hammers to make a super slayer (repond). Now that i know its possible, i plan on running through a few more. There is some kinda method to the madness. It was troll, troll, ophidian, lizardman, orc, blood ele, blood ele and then super slayer. There is something unusually un-random about that. Either way, i also noticed some slayers came out with over 400 durability and one with more than 500. The fact that you can make super slayers with a DC makes things interesting.
     
  17. Redrum1

    Redrum1 Guest

    And what ore are you using with the hammer? Just curiouse to see what others are using!
     
  18. sean_lo

    sean_lo Guest

    Theo_GL, i took up your advice.

    I bought the silver-etched mace recipe for 1 mil, bought 70 blue diamonds for 4 k each. I used 2 bronze runic hammers, and i made UBWS, mana leech, damage increase undead slayers for my swordsperson.

    Way cheaper and faster. Thanks theo.