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Why can't we have houses Siege-able in Felucca

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Draxous, Sep 20, 2008.

  1. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    I think it would be cool if we could get back to some of our roots. Do we really need invisible force fields around private homes?

    If they gave everyone who owned a home, 2 master keys (copyable) that could lock/unlock any door in the home they own.

    If all teleporters were default anyone setting and unalterable. So people couldn't abuse them... even if not, not that big of a deal if it's just classic homes that can't utilize it.

    We could bring back texas law for private homes!!!


    For public homes we could set up tithe monthly to purchase guardzone protection (only on the plot.) Players could police their own places if they don't want PvP conducted there.

    [/discuss
     
  2. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    Because I dont want someone camped out in my house while I try to repot or work skills....I think this idea is silly.
     
  3. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    lock front door and insure your key.

    use detect hidden anywhere in your house (will tell you how many and reveal all hidden players in it.)

    Make an "I Ban Thee" macro.

    Press it rapidly and click the intruders.

    And since you set yourself up for it... =P

    move to and/or live in Trammel... where it seems you belong.

    It's a choice to be in Felucca and it should represent... what it represents. And that's a place where players police themselves.
     
  4. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Private houses was never needed. Back when Siege had alot more players and almost half was red, I was running a shop from a classic villa.
    I could not lock my frontdoor, I only had one little locked room upstairs.

    I had my vendors outside and most of my secure chests too as I was standing outside crafting for my vendors. I could hide, but else I had not much chance to get away if PK's show up.

    I did not really die much on my crafter, so it was never a problem. Also I could not keep my ban list as Freja was red and would clean it each time she used the door.

    When a crafter could do fine in a public house without the options to lock her frontdoor, why do a private house need a shield around it, why do we need private houses at all, everyone can secure their frontdoor now.

    I feel, private houses are very annoying and you can't see the deco at players houses when you can't stand on their step.

    I would love to see private houses gone or replaced with a guest level of secure, useful to allow a lower secure level than friends. A guest should not be able to ban or lockdown but it would be possible to set doors, teleporters and containers to Guest secure.

    I really don't want to go back to keys. Sure it did make you a little more slow to get in your door but as attacker you can't follow in anyway and an attacker can't run off to his house.

    "We could bring back texas law for private homes!!!"

    It was abused to invite players only to kill them. We don't need more bones to the noto PK's. Want to PK, go red.
     
  5. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    That's not being abused, that's knowing that when you enter into someone elses home, regardless of color (think thief) and they don't want you there... then they have an advantage.

    Allow the players to police themselves.
     
  6. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    Nice! It would definitely ruin the day for people who design their houses for PvP with small openings for ranged combat and open entry ways. It would also force people to be creative with their homes' interior as it should be.

    Having private shielded homes doesn't feel like a part of Felucca at all to be honest! You'll just have to use the bank to re-stock and place your loot, too bad. It might also have a positive impact on crafting, if you can only have what your bank holds you will be buying much more often on your Felucca-only character and shops would be constantly busy.

    It might also boost a sense of protecting your home, of keeping people out while your friend tries to come in and restock and such scenarios.

    Right now I can just jump into my house, Cure/Heal/STR/DEX/Orange Petal/Purple Petal/Enchant Apple and run out again like nothing happened.. not mention escaping an otherwise unavoidable death- which is completely unfair at least in my eyes. If you'd die 100% without a house and your own private Trammel is the only thing protecting you then just DIE to be honest. Oh and right now the house I live in, in Felucca, is a paradise of locked-down Bright Orange Flowers, Trinsic Roses, Kegs upon Kegs of potions, Enchanted Bandage Springs.. You name it. It certainly feels good but it's luxury beyond need for a PvP facet. I'd prefer to lose all that and have more fun.

    Who enjoys all the house hiding going on, with people afraid to flag so that they don't lose their homes' security? It only creates a mini-Trammel in Felucca!

    Mind you, this all from someone who completely over-did it with house hiding on his stealther and still does it when he wants to **** ganging people off or whatever.

    If they could be lured into my house I could take them off one by one if I'm smart, with the shoving and close spaces and doors.

    I disagree with the private guards though.

    As for any other form of sieges?
    Well, until EA finds a way to program destructible objects/environment in UO's code don't get your hopes high.

    Think about this too : A toggle allowing you to deem your house destructible?

    Then noone would toggle it. Simple. ;P That's the problem with "switches" in games. It's like they are not there and you might as well not add them- they only hinder those that would have said switches turned on, like PvPers and people who want their houses destructible in your example.

    Let's face it: Risk in games means potential FUN with increased difficulty and potential DEATH RATE INCREASE, not actual permanent LOSS of anything. The reward is the fun itself. In UO there's more, there's the other guy's insurance. ;P And what does this have to do with sieges? It's the same mentality, if it's a switch(Public/Private house, anyone?) nobody will use it.
    A universal solution would have to be found. In insurance's case this universal solution would hurt players without adding FUN.
    In sieges, making all houses destructible would add fun and strategy and definitely increase difficulty. I'd go for that.

    Anyway the last parts of my post are hypothetical. Sieges won't happen any time soon in UO, although all it would take would be to add HPs to walls or something.
     
  7. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    BR... See my planned event for Siege on the anniverseries thread. Hope to see you there.
     
  8. Olahorand

    Olahorand Slightly Crazed
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    Don't forget, that part of the reasons for private houses was to reduce lag, which otherwise increased always, if the content of fuller houses/castles loaded.

    The only change I would like to see is that fresh placed houses are public by default and cannot be changed for the first hour (same time, in which it cannot be demolished).
     
  9. Littleblue

    Littleblue Seasoned Veteran
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    That's a good point, Olahorand.

    I wouldn't want to see houses filled with tons of crap with the intent to lag-crash players who happen by. I don't think that would be very fair, and not a good use of game mechanics. If that could be prevented, then hey...sounds like it could be something fun for Fel. :)
     
  10. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    You only load a house if you step onto the steps... I'm not sure what you're saying...
     
  11. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    I have several interior house keys left I can sell you for a hefty sum.
    You can lock them down and reminisce the glory days all you want.

    They took these things out for good reason.

    All you need do is make your house public set your secures to public and there you go.

    Now go mark some runes and leave them at a public gate, within a month you will have every turd on the shard sieging your home. Yay for you.
     
  12. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    That doesn't really answer the issue. Why should there be a piece of trammel on felucca? If you want trammel I think that the most effective way is to go to trammel.
     
  13. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    My houses are public... even on Siege my house is public and always has been.

    Trammel is available to you if you need complete utter safety. Players have been abusing the complete utter safety of private homes for quite some time now and the issue needs to be revisited.

    We need Felucca to be Felucca, again.
     
  14. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    Imo the issue is people wanting to bring back systems that were highly flawed and exploited.

    I dont care how die hard fel you may think you are but no one wants to lose their things due to exploits.

    This suggestion opens up a very old can of worms.

    Do I play 24 hours a day? Do I have the kind Of time to (police) my little patch of UO.

    Who's to Stop the damage done while I am not online to (police my Home)?

    [email protected], If we had it like some Want the only secure items we could have would be in our limited bank boxes...
    *hazy cloud dreams of the past* *oh the glory days!*

    Do people want Ed the turd who's played for 30 days to loot their homes while off line.

    Or do you want Bahooky bag bill killing your new character you just made the instant you log in over and over.
    You could go on and on, the list of negative aspects far out weighs the good it would do.

    I for one would not keep my fel home if I could not have it private. Can the current system be exploited? yes. But those issues can be fixed.

    Fixed alot easier than trying implement an outdated over exploited system that helped bring about Tram.

    To sum it up the idea is bad.
     
  15. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Lock your front door.


    There was never any problems with having players police themselves. There is nothing flawed about the system if done right.

    If you're talking about players camping your house... move to Trammel or

    Lock your front door.


    If you're talking about bugs, well bugs are bugs and they happen regardless of this... has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
     
  16. Lyconis

    Lyconis Sage
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    the "Siege-able" word is throwing me off..

    If you are saying you want to make all homes public home, I had to say I'm 50/50 with that. I have always had my house(s) in felucca, save one I had outside for a vendor house. There are some players that have no lifes/no jobs and plenty of time on there hands. I am not always in the mood of attacking another player, especially if I log on to check my plants then want to log off 5 minutes later. You should think about bringing back the ability to recall inside of your home again if you want all houses to be public.

    If you want to revert houses how they used to be, where you could take anything from inside of them if you take my key. No No No. I like having secure chests and lockdowns. This is an item based game now, change everything to gm craftable and then I might think about it.

    And I hate the idea of having guards at homes. What was the reason it was removed years ago?
     
  17. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    NO, I do not want this to happen.


    This is just opening up homes so we can have a feeling of actual risk living out in the wilderness called Felucca.

    Just lock your front door if you don't want people inside of it. Close it behind you, use detect hidden on your home and ban if anyone followed you in.

    If you want to fight from your home... its going to be locked down tight so you cannot get into it easily without risking others following you into it.

    We won't need the stupid beneficial acts things preventing us from going into the home because it will be on us to either defend the house or them to successfully siege it.


    This would be great for PvP.
     
  18. Lore Master

    Lore Master Guest

    I think this idea would really be bad for numerous reasons.
    1. Most people don't want strangers comming in there house.
    2. Most people don't want to be pkd while entering there home.
    3. Suppose you lose your key or keys what a disater that would be.
    4. Suppose a stranger or enemy gets your key that would be really bad.
    5. Entering your home would take more time you couldn't just walk right in your home.
    6. Many players live where dangerous spawn is and many would be killed by spawn before getting in there house.
    7. Many players like there privacy
    One more reason gms rarely ever show up when being paged picture how many players would be pageing gms claiming they lost there keys. those are only a few reasons why this idea would be bad. i think the houseing rules are fine the way they are now.
     
  19. ZippyTwitch

    ZippyTwitch Lore Keeper
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    Here is an interesting idea. How about making it where if someone anyone thats not friended or higher loses all skills while inside the house. A player with zero skill could not kill a craftsman so it would balance it out. That way people wont hide and camp inside someone house waiting for them to come home because it would be pointless since they would have no skills to kill with.
     
  20. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    1. Don't live in Felucca
    2. Don't be in Felucca... this happens even now.
    3. I think a solution is if the 2 master keys you receive are blessed.
    4. Reset your keys for your home if someone else gets a hold of them
    5. In the past there was a coding that if you had the key in your back pack... it would allow you to open and close locked doors. Getting into your home would be double clicking a door... walking in and shutting it behind you.
    6. "I Ban Thee" or a locked door will do just fine for those players who live by "dangerous" spawn...
    7. Sure and that's why I suggest giving people the keys to lock their own doors and maintain their own privacy.


    Nothing in this proposal takes away from a players choice to have privacy, even in Felucca.

    What this choice is ALL about is giving the responsibility of protecting a players home back to the players and removing unnecessary restrictions from Felucca.

    You have the Trammel facet if you do not want to risk any kind of danger when owning a home.

    The responses this thread is yielding are shockingly Trammish... this proposal is for Felucca only.
     
  21. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    I also think public homes should be able to use the keys to lock their doors too!


    Public home = vendors and possible guardzone protection if you pay a ridiculous tithe.

    Private homes = texas law.


    Securing your home in Felucca = your responsibility.


    It's that simple.
     
  22. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    Even In Fel there has to be some absolutes. This old rule set that you are proposing was tried and failed miserably.
    It leaves too much room to greif players.

    You state the proposal quite clearly. Your angle(what you would gain from it)is a bit sketchy.

    You also have those options available now, selecting whats private and whats public(you said you use that option yourself)great, nice personal choice.

    Look at the current issues with people casting into private homes. Look at the ways already in place to "crack" a secure home... look at the bugs for " remove thysef" and "I ban thee". In other words its already a pain trying to sweep the determined turds out.

    Let loose the flood you are saying will help fel. I call BS

    How would fel benifit from this open play ground for griefers??

    Really enough already with the tram references have lived in felucca since 1998.

    Be real man. This going back to the roots is a pipe dream. At least until EA takes fixing current bugs seriously and removing the teen rating. Haha rrrrrriiiight.
     
  23. Littleblue

    Littleblue Seasoned Veteran
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    Oh...well then, forgot all that then, lol.

    I consider myself corrected! =)
     
  24. Lyconis

    Lyconis Sage
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    So basically you don't like private homes. I never liked the idea of a private home. My fel home is public and the doors security is set to anyone. I used to have a house made for my neighbors to attack and invited bunches of folks to help defend the house. It was great fun until some idiot paged that they couldn't get outta the house after they got in. So I dropped the public access after a 72 hour ban on my account.

    I'd love it if the default was set to public as most players in tram, malas, tokuno probably wouldn't change the settings. I enjoy walking into random houses to see how they decorate it.
     
  25. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    It was tried and failed miserably?

    By what stretch of your imagination did it ever fail... and fail miserably?

    Oh wait... just because you say so, it must of failed.

    I don't like assumptions and I don't like arguing with people who make up lies to fit their argument.

    The reason they changed the system was because of customizable housing and fears of people abusing it with setting the security on doors and other what-nots. For 5 years, Ultima Online didn't have an invisible force field around player homes and it did just fine.

    Remove the security settings from all teleporters and doors, set them all to "anyone" and give people the keys to lock up and protect their own homes in Felucca.

    This trammelization of Felucca is ridiculous... and I bet the only reason your saying what your saying is so you can continue to attack people from your yew gate house without worrying about them ever getting in at you.

    Now THATS exploiting the flawed system and it needs to be fixed.

    :next:
     
  26. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    Who's making assumptions.. lol

    Lies or my personal Opinon? you Sos.

    Also in my opinion ( Sorry I dont share yours)

    It failed miserably due to the sheer expoitation of the very same system you are asking for
    Proof (IMO) = tram assumption my friend is the mother of all........... I live no where near yew or any gate for that matter.
     
  27. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    So... are you refusing to explain how the previous system could be exploited to grief players?


    I've already explained how the current system is being exploited by people PvPing from private homes without risk.

    k, thanks.
     
  28. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    yes, I am unwilling to disuss exploits past or present.

    In earlier posts in this trying thread I mention (hint) at what has and is happening. Your Idea even if well intentioned would open " a flood " of griefing that I believe would make fel even less not more.

    I also said that I was aware of current problems reguarding housing.

    I expressed that it would be easier to fix the current state of fel housing than to implement something in MY opinion that has aready failed once. Go figure?
     
  29. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Has already failed once?

    Yet you won't explain in anyway how it failed. I was there when we had the old rules... and from every bit of experience I and everyone I ever knew had with their homes... there was no failure regarding it at all.

    I have had my houses set to public for the past 4+ years now... and there are TONS of people who have public housing. Why aren't they being griefed and complaining about it?

    There was nothing wrong with the old housing rules and we all know it.
     
  30. mr.blackmage

    mr.blackmage Guest

    it was more fun having to "i ban thee" and "remove thyself". Yeah, sometimes I got killed trying to hit the ol' macro and failing miserably (hitting ctrol e instead of ctrl r for instance... although I forget completely what the real macro was), but it was still great fun. Made a house not 100% safe, and even some people that ran into houses wouldn't ban you, they would still try to fight it out. Houses were never meant to be pvp safe zones, and I do find it kind of silly that you can attack someone from a house and not be kicked out instantly from it, in todays system. If you want to be engaged in pvp, there shouldn't be a safe zone, period.
     
  31. Galad

    Galad Journeyman
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    The old housing rules in Felucca always worked fine. They really need to be reinstated.
     
  32. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
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    Votes to remove private houses
     
  33. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
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    Black rain is your house on Seige public? Mine is.
     
  34. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    My house has always been public...

    Its just north of barter town if you need directions to it =O

    I consider myself Lord of Bartertown.
     
  35. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    happy monday people!
     
  36. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Eliminate private homes on Siege, imo...there was never a need for them on Siege...la