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Why did EA choose Mythic for their "online game" expertise?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by MoonglowMerchant, Jun 17, 2008.

  1. They only have one game right? DAOC.

    That game has less subs than UO. Maybe Mythic should have hired EA?

    Now that is a scary thought.
     
  2. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    They actually have games dating back to before UO even began. DAoC is just the latest stop in their journey of well polished leading games. DAoC had a very loyal fan base. It never hit the numbers that some games did, but that was mostly because it had to much competition and was a niche game.

    If you have played DAoC you understand why Mythic is still a leading gaming company. Also, when they "chose" Mythic, WAR was already in production, and WAR is still considered to be the next big thing in the MMORPG industry by players and critics alike.
     
  3. I agree that EA is banking on big things from WAR. I just don't understand why.

    There is a LOT of competition in on-line games now. I'm not sure what other games Mythic produced besides DAOC and I never played it so I can't speak to it's quality.

    I imagine however that EA will judge the success of WAR and of the Mythic acquistion by boxes sold and subscription revenue and I don't see Mythic having a track record that indicates they are any better at it than EA was.
     
  4. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Dragon's Gate (1985)
    Tempest (1991)
    Castles II Online (1996)
    Rolemaster: Magestorm (1996)
    Splatterball (1996)
    Invasion Earth (1997)
    Darkness Falls (1997)
    Rolemaster: Bladelands (1997)
    Aliens Online (1998)
    Starship Troopers: Battlespace (1998)
    Godzilla Online (1998)
    Silent Death: Online (1999)
    Darkness Falls: The Crusade (1999)
    Darkstorm: The Well of Souls (1999)
    Spellbinder: The Nexus Conflict (1999)
    Independence Day Online (2000)
    Dark Age of Camelot (2001)
    Imperator Online (Canceled 2005)
    Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning (projected for 2008)


    Thats the list of games by Mythic. Most of them were probably not huge hits until DAoC. However, Mythic has proven itself with DAoC. DAoC has some of the best graphics ever in a video game (espeically for its generation). It also has one of the most devoted fan followings ever in the gaming industry. EA seems to have issues maintaining a fan base.
     

  5. But DAoC has less subs than UO...
     
  6. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Mythic owned the rights to WAR. Those rights did not belong to EA. They still don't belong to EA. Mythic got a very nice contract deal out of EA. Why do you think EA relocated to their headquarters? I don't know why WAR is expected to be so huge. However, Mythic's track record with DAoC does excite people, and people have wanted to play Warhammer as a MMORPG for quite some time.
     
  7. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Not world wide. Its huge in Europe. Its American numbers peaked at around 40,000 but when you throw in the European numbers they have more subs then UO. Although, UO had more when it peaked then DAoC has had. However, DAoC was a niche game, and it was one of the most successful niche games ever. In the end, it doesn't matter how many subs you have...it does matter how many of those subs actually stay with the game, and DAoC has a very good track record of keeping players playing.
     
  8. Tek

    Tek Seasoned Veteran
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    I think that’s the whole reason EA acquired Mythic, because there is so much competition in MMO’s already. EA purchased a company that’s developing the online version of an already well known game with a strong following of players and fans worldwide. If Mythic can create an online version that has a similar experience to the tabletop games then they will have tons of player’s world wide, it’s probably one of the best bets to actually compete with other MMOs because of its already well established player base.
     
  9. DAoC has less than 50k subs worldwide if you believe the numbers. How many does UO have?
     
  10. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Honestly at this point I'd be surprised if they have 50k world wide. As I said, DAoC never hit the subscriptions that UO had in the peak times. However, DAoC is a NICHE game and UO caters to a much larger market. DAoC is very likely the most popular NICHE game to date.
     
  11. timbeOFbaja

    timbeOFbaja Guest

    They bought Mythic because they were on the clearance rack and because Mythic knows how to efficiently develop a game.

    Truthfully, WoW is basically a DAOC clone. There's really very minimal difference. But WoW has a franchise name. So you take the team behind DAOC and give them a franchise and you profit. Isn't that what it's all about with video games? Profit?

    Don't expect much from Mythic. They're just a chop shop. When it comes to original or revolutionary thought and ideas, you'll find none of it with them. Which is fine because the typical MMORPG gamer is too stupid to notice or care or want any different.
     

  12. We're looking at a good development team. They have done a lot of good things for the game and with a much quicker turn around than most teams in the past. If they'd gotten this team on the game sooner it would be in a better state IMO.
     
  13. Mulch

    Mulch Guest

    Because Mythic was developing the next hit after WOW and EA's policy is to buy companies to get such hits if possible.

    And as their own online division was/is in shambles they gave it to mythic to handle. Any other mmorpg company out there that closed 3-4 MMORPGS except ea?
     
  14. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    I totally and utterly disagree. They were the first to have RvR. They were the first to have seigable forts. They were the first to have an almost perfect balance of buffing classes, healers, tanks, and casters.

    On the other hand, they borrowed heavily from EQ and just improved it while adding RvR.
     
  15. Raina

    Raina Journeyman
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    Same reason they bought Origin Originally, and Westwood Studios?

    ~Rai
     
  16. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Roughly 100k, according to this article:

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/warhammer-time

    However.....As others have pointed out, their MMO experience isn't limited to Dark age of Camelot. They have acquired a reputation of specializing in MMOs. Their MMOs aren't Ultima Online.....But as a company they do show some sign of understanding the business model of an MMO, which is very simple: Once you make up your startup costs, it's all profit. So all you have to do, really, is not screw up very badly (example: Saga of Ryzom screwed up very badly, and is gone at least for the moment), and you're still raking in the cash.

    EA never quite got that. They seemed to keep expecting their online properties to sell like their sports games, which of course they had no realistic chance of doing.

    Also......Mythic was developing Warhammer Online: The Age of Reckoning, which was among the more anticipated MMO titles. I think EA sees that game as their best chance to challenge World of Warcraft. Why spend millions to develop a new MMO, which you obviously can't do (notice the stunning cancellations of Ultima Online 2 and Ultima X: Odyssey, and the comparative lack of success of Ultima Online: Kingdom Reborn), when you can also spend millions but save yourself all of the pain in the ass development work, get all of these successful online properties, and then have them manage your only significant online property to boot?

    Mythic's games aren't on the scale of what Ultima Online was and, to a degree, still is.

    But they had the experience, they ran more than one successful MMO which EA had not done. EA had Ultima Online and that was about it. And they had the upcoming Warhammer Online: The Age of Reckoning property.

    Basically, Mythic knows how to toss the game out into the market, maintain it, and watch it make money. EA is always trying to do stuff. And that ain't always a good idea. Mythic, I believe, saw their subscriptions of Dark Age of Camelot go down after they did some major change or other.

    Here's a good article:

    http://www.gamespot.com/news/6152975.html

    And here's another one:

    http://pc.gamespy.com/articles/713/713563p1.html

    And here's the Mythic Press Release:

    http://www.mythicentertainment.com/press/06202006EAMythic.html

    Now sure, it's entirely possible that any business decision was bad, and was made on other-than-rational criteria.

    I may be wrong about why, it may e that whoever it is that runs EA was just in a buying mood that day, and it was either Mythic or a new toilet seat.

    But frankly I like Mythic so far, and I am glad EA bought them and I like the direction we're headed in. I see more people than I have in awhile in-game.

    -Galen's player
     
  17. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    UO has been passed around a bit in 10 years. It was under Origins, under EA, under EA.com, under EA again, under Mythic I think. I may be wrong on one of these, but you get the point. Hopefully, it will eventually find a permanent home. I like a lot of what the current team has done.
     
  18. timbeOFbaja

    timbeOFbaja Guest

    Then you're utterly wrong. RvR was a marketing bullet point to broaden the game's overall appeal. No actual thought was put into that aspect of the game. It's laughable in retrospect. How could somebody possibly think that a group-based PvM game would translate to PvP? Answer? Nobody did any thinking about it. Crowd control spells, which were absolutely requisite in PvM, carried over into PvP. So unless your side got off the CC spell first, you were dispatched like a typical group of mobs...chain mezed and killed one by one. What a thrill! About 3 or 4 years after the game went live, they got around to making some spells and skills work differently in PvP. The best anecdote from my time playing DAOC I can think of is berzerker damage. Players were literally screaming about how they were doing too much damage in PvP. At least a hundred logs had to have been posted on the Vault forums about it. Mythic officially addressed it a few times and repeatedly stated there was no problem. Come to find out after two years that they were only running the numbers against mobs when they'd test so they never saw the problem with the calculation. I can list off another dozen huge just core design problems with that game. Ultimately they killed it themselves with a huge gameplay altering expansion pack that had to be their first attempt at doing actual design work and they fell on their face and exposed their ineptitude in that area.

    Mythic is a chop shop. As I said, the word for them is "efficient". The game will work. It will look good. It will get routinely updated and look like it's headed somewhere due to frequent wide-reaching expansion packs. It will have no heart. And, once you've swum past the first few months of content, you'll begin uncovering design decisions and concepts that were fundamentally flawed or missed. DAOC itself was pieced together from a bunch of third party apps. They outsourced the graphics engine, they outsourced the netcode, they outsourced the rule set........I started wondering if that company was just a bunch of artists and accountants.

    Their idea for a new MMORPG after DAOC was Imperator and they scrapped it.....wisely. A Rome themed MMORPG with evil space Aztec indians as the bad guys. Genius. The accountants over there did the match and realized they needed a franchise name to garner anything remotely close to WoW numbers since WoW also had a franchise name. Easy math, huh? Well, they're good at math those accountants.
     
  19. Bingo
    A smart woman.

    They buy to make money.
     
  20. deadite

    deadite Sage
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    Your about to see DAoC's numbers go up, probably a good bit.

    Why?

    They got smart. They're releasing a "classic" server that goes back to DAoC's roots.

    *cough, cough*
     
  21. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    They bought them for Warhammer. They got us because EA needed something to do with us.

    Not that it matter. This incarnation of Warhammer pales in comparison to the one that Turbine was doing before they couldn't come up with the money.
     
  22. timbeOFbaja

    timbeOFbaja Guest

    Pre-ToA servers have been around for at least a couple years. In fact that was one major problem with DAOC. They started releasing different version of the game to cater to different people. It looked desperate and split the playerbase. So they starter merging servers. Though the damage had already been done and by then WoW was out.

    One of the things I applaud EA for is sticking to their guns with UO and not caving on a classic rules shard. Keep your players together and your resources focussed.
     
  23. Mulch

    Mulch Guest

    Try a mediocre way and appeal to none?

    DAoC has problems because pvp needs full servers something UO does not necessarily need. And WOW took most of DAoC people as pvpers always jump to the newest game looking for a kick
     
  24. timbeOFbaja

    timbeOFbaja Guest

    DAOC had full PvP servers since shortly after release. Nobody played on them. The coop server was actually the one that ended up being a smash hit. Thanks for the insight though. rolleyes:

    I will say this. I think the Mythic artists are outstanding. What they pulled off with that crappy engine DAOC licensed in a short time frame was outstanding. Some of the spell animations are the best I've seen in any game ever....especially the Hibernian nurture spells.

    SOOOO, if they were to build a 3D engine for UO, I think those Mythic artists would be perfectly suited to get it done quick and do it justice.

    As it is, nothing I can see is preventing them from just porting everything as is over to 3D. I'm sure you'd need to tweak spell damage and range, but you could call it UO2 and launch a bunch of new shards and take the opportunity to elegantly undo some of the dead end paths certain aspects of UO have headed down.
     
  25. deadite

    deadite Sage
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    Sorry, but the current Classic servers are what kept DAoC from completely nosediving in sub numbers.

    With the introduction of the "Origins" server, DAoC is releasing a "real" Classic version of the game, with certain enhancements and customizations. Kinda like if UO released a Classic UO shard but kept custom housing and other more universally popular features. They are calling Origins basically a re-release of Camelot in the way that they would release the game if it came out in 2008... all lessons learned. They admitted to their mistakes with TOA and other expansions, which is something that UO's team has never formally done.

    Furthermore, you can hardly applaud UO for keeping their resources focused! Between UO2, UXO, UO:3D and UO:KR you are saying they have stayed focused? LOL...
     
  26. deadite

    deadite Sage
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    The person was referring to regular RvR servers, not the "full" PvP servers, which actually DID have good populations for a while, thankyouverymuch.
     
  27. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Sounds great, where can I sign-up for that?
    UO Production + Siege/Mugen
    - no mas, por favor.


    - EA 'chose' Mythic for WAR, imo. UO was put under Mythic's wing because Mythic is suited to handle MMO's better than EA Games, imo (*spills a sip for TSO-EALand and the like*).
    Resources are now divided between WAR, Daoc, & UO, imo.
    UO still has resources; still has new hires; still has unlimited potential (barring the amount of resources devoted to cheating), imo.
     
  28. timbeOFbaja

    timbeOFbaja Guest

    That will be great. There will be, what, six or seven different version of DAOC to pick between. Let's add six more and make it a bakers dozen.......one for each player. :lol:

    It's too late for DAOC. Though I think it bodes well for UO that EA sees viability with DAOC when UO has more players and higher attach rates.

    For better or worse, UO keeps evolving. Getting better and worse at the same time. Right now they're trying to breath life into factions which, if done right, would be the best thing for the game. Regardless, the team is all on the same page....not split between managing different versions of the game with different code. And as a player you know everybody else is in the same position as you are and that you can't just run from everything that isn't exactly how you want it.
     
  29. timbeOFbaja

    timbeOFbaja Guest

    Nobody played the full PvP server. Nobody. It was insta-gank as soon as you hit lvl 10 or whatever it was that removed your flag. The others had good populations for the first year, but DAOC was the only show in town during that time.

    DAOC was released in 2001, six months after AO had flopped. So they got a good portion of players from UO and EQ who'd had nothing new since '99 as well as disgruntled AO players who wanted any game that could manage a stable launch. DAOC then enjoyed a solid TWO FREAKING YEARS with no new competition until Shadowbane and SWG came out. Luckily for DAOC, SWG was all G and no SW and Shadowbane had game ruining technical problems and limited appeal outside of hardcore PvP gamers, so DAOC earned themselves almost ANOTHER YEAR of no compeition until WoW finally came out a full three years after DAOC did......at which point everybody happily bid DAOC a long overdue farewell. So DAOC had the benefit of impeccable or lucky timing.

    The game had issues. It was a really really serious PvM grind before you could hit RvR. It was so bad they started giving you double levels the next time you levelled after a certain amount of time. I'm not sure how many PvP players wanted to go through that just to go out into the frontier.

    Mythic will be constantly doing stuff. Adding low level battle grounds, handing out respecs like mints at a Hilton, adding classes and races so it looks like they're really trying, but it's all to cover up a faulty foundation.
     
  30. Not "stayed focused" .... GOT focused ... its a new thang.

    Could be a "good thang" ... if not? whats different from before?

    If so ... could be really good ... Mark J of Mythic ... ain't afraid of saying: "no, wait ... ain't just right for release"
    and closing out a beta ... to reset retool rework "a game" ...case in point Warhammer online.

    Possible second point would be: pulling references even ... of the release of SA ... it was a departed "mythic" guy that "took responsibility"
    for BOTH, the "release" out of closed beta, for KR ... and the "pull" of SA from "soon".

    EA, as far as I can recall .... would NOT have stopped to rethink ... case in point AOS launch, booyah! nuff said ...

    I had a reference/linky, on the old forums (iirc) where John Riccitello, the new CEO of EA (not this, but timeline correct) had gone into an explanation of "why" he had restructured EA as he had. 4 divisions, and grouped and based on a researched "theme" (and trial tested) ...
    The gist of which was to put similar development "houses"(groups), in our case Ultima Online, in their own "space" ... and let them do what they do best ...without micro managing them, as , in the past, EA was wont to do ...

    humph! was gonna cut it ... but ... Remember when EA acquired Bioware/Pandemic? Little article here about it ... of special note, see: release dates ... research from there ... << doesn't meet "old" expectations ... seems like the "House" was able to reschedule ...

    just saying

    Could be a "good thang" ...
    time will tell.
     
  31. So far EA Mythic has done nothing for the BETTER of UO's future , that I have seen , has anyone else??

    My biggest problems are:

    1. Mark Jacobs head of EA Mythic ( sure he's busy with WAR ) doesnt seem to care about UO , barely mentions it in any EA mythic related interviews

    2. There still is no clear cut future for UO , 6 months into 2008 , let alone the past 1-2 years.

    3. I still to this day dont understand where they get there info the certain server suggestions still go without any merit ( see link in siggy , for whay past players want).

    4. When was our last Expansion??

    Once these statements get answered , I will return with friends in tow , to the game Ionce loved ( wife didn't though)...
     
  32. Tek

    Tek Seasoned Veteran
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    Ultima Online: Mondain's Legacy - August 30, 2005
     
  33. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - oh no he di'nt :)

    3. what? classic shards have historically bombed in mmos. Desegregation does not necessarily improve population... too Too much individual maintenance required. So, no.
    2. wrong.
    1. he cares, some. Guaranteed. How much? How much compared to his other responsibilities? Probably not as much as he should.

    There, all answered. Welcome back all :)
     
  34. And quite well too!
    mmm [​IMG] I'll quibble the #2. wrong

    simply was mis-stated ... Never Was, has been or can be a "clear cut future" for UO ...

    "Ultima Online was kind of a red-headed stepchild during its development." Garriott admits. "Everyone at EA was focused on Ultima IX which was seen as more of a sure thing. Nobody at EA really understood what Ultima Online was all about." In fact, the same can be said about the team. The history of UO's development is filled with mistakes that seem obvious only in retrospect. "We honestly never expected to sell more than 50,000 boxes." He said. Garriott also cited some of the earliest plans for the title that called for only one server for the entire game. That plan went up in smoke during the initial beta test when 50,000 players tried to jump on the game in the first weekend, almost causing the entire project to crash. Still, the initial debacle of the game's beta test had a silver lining - the realization that maybe there was a market for a shared world in cyberspace. source

    "clear cut future" .... AIN"TTT no such critter ....

    Hopes and Dreams and plans and scheme's o' Mice an' Men, gang aft agley.

    GameSpy: What's the closest you feel you've ever come to re-creating those early D&D sessions in a computer game?

    Garriott: Honestly ... none have come very close. Ultima's 1-9 were all solo player, and thus missed the social element, and UO is largely a big monster hunting fest, with a general lack of clear purpose. So, a great D&D-like experience is still ahead! circa 2003


    /quibble ...

    Besides ... how does one "answer" a statement ?
    #4 Was a question, and answered.
    #3 No question, and more of an "unsolvable"(probably) ... personal condition.
    #1 ... *sigh* Isn't that just a rephrasing of "Waiting for Godot"? ... I mean ... I know it cannot be considering the source ...still the errily similar pointlessness of it ...

    O'well


    :thumbup1:
     
  35. Saris

    Saris Guest

    well, does it mater, Origin cease to be Origin when it was aquired, why would I think Mythic is anything more than a bunch of ppl that work for EA
     
  36. Ashyn

    Ashyn Guest

    Prior to EA taking over Mythic and Warhammer, it's ratings on future expectation alone were through the roof - and it has a nice little stash a reveiws and rewards even in its most infantile state.

    If you think EA has a better name with online gaming than Mythic, you're mistaken. The attachment of EA to Warhammer/Mythic actually hurt the anticipation ratings - while it will change little for the open-minded reviewer, for the average consumer, it changes a great deal.

    I think a more appropriate question would be why did Mythic chose EA for their "online game" experience, knowing full well that EA's devotion lies more in the single player games than MMO's - unless of course it's The Sims. :stretcher:

    ---and on a side note for DAoC, as a player, I still think it had the best PvP. I absolutely enjoyed the seizable structures, being able to place a catapult, those arrow things (can't remember what they're called) and be able to make repairs on our captured structures. DAoC brought out even the casual PvP'r.....the ones who really wanted to try it, but didn't like to be in the front line. It gave them the ability to help behind the scenes...hammering on walls, healing from a roof top...etc..etc. THAT was ingenious and no one has done it before or since! That alone makes DAoC the superior game in my most humble of opinions.

    -Ashyn
     
  37. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    In retrospect, I should have simply posted the answer you all wanted to hear: EA bought Mythic because they hate us, hate UO, and want to kill it.

    There you go!

    -Galen's player
     
  38. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    You mean September 1992, long before UO was released, or probably even conceived of? (Source of the date is the Wikipedia; I thought it was earlier than that actually. I remember it being the 80s!)

    -Galen's player
     
  39. timbeOFbaja

    timbeOFbaja Guest

    Oh, I think it's QUITE clear that Garriott was far less of a genius than we've given him credit for. I read an article in PC Gamer last year that highlighted Rich Vogel post Origin and he is still creating Ultima-esque games with a small developer. They are low res and very high on story and heart. Something tells me it was guys like Rich and Raph and others who were the real brains behind UO and probably the latter Ultima single player games. Case in point, Tabula Rasa. Regardless of the execution, the ideas behind it, that Garriott was coming up with or buying into, were stupid and unoriginal.

    UO has never been a monster bashing fest. To even perceive it thusly shows how imperceptive he is.
     
  40. entitled to your opinion ... but I think you missed the "context" of the question RG was asked:
    GameSpy: What's the closest you feel you've ever come to re-creating those early D&D sessions in a computer game?

    It was about "early D&D sessions " ... the old/original "feeling" of a group or club revolving their LIFE around "the playing" ...
    >Role< playing ... which is admittedly kinda hard to stay focused "in character" in ... in UO as it "exists" ... then and today.

    Too many "Leet speaking Haxor PK ya noob twink self" to establish and maintain ... a "mood" .... a "mood" like a closed room of cooperative and creative friends ... taking turns rolling dice and following the "Masters" storyline ...

    compared to early D&D sessions ... UO is, indeed, "largely a big monster hunting fest" ... perceived to be mostly driven by rmt and scripted bots and PvP hacks and cheats ...

    Compared to early D&D sessions ...

    guess you actually DO have to have BOTH, to compare one to the other.
    *shrugs*