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Why do mage's have to stop to cast?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Exgirlfriend, Feb 8, 2009.

  1. Exgirlfriend

    Exgirlfriend Journeyman
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    In this day of moving shot and spammed special moves, would it unbalance the game if mage's did not have to stop to cast? What i see is people using a wonder aid, and bailing off screen before i can get an e-bolt up. plus they have time to chug also.


    Your thought's...
     
  2. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    Well whats the damage difference and can you miss with a spell, then look at mana cost. There are alot of things that make for good reasons on why they have to stop.
     
  3. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Um, yeah. It would unbalance the game. Majorly. There isn't a 35 damage cap on spells like there is on weapon hits.
     
  4. Hemisphere

    Hemisphere Always Present
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    Do spells often do more than 35 damage?
     
  5. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Explosion and flamestrike will, at least if target is cursed. I think I remember them doing that much anyway <_<
     
  6. Exgirlfriend

    Exgirlfriend Journeyman
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    but then again mage's can still be interupted by not only direct damage but also damage effects to, it's a good question.
     
  7. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Yet the only way to not get hit by spells is to use evasion, and that doesn't block all of them, costs mana, and can't be active all the time. Mages can stack DCI, get a -20 mage wep + crystalline, and be pretty damn hard to hit. So the way it is now is fair.
     
  8. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    The never missing part is the biggest thing, if spells could miss and be parried and dci effected it heck I would almost say yes but even the running shot has limits.
     
  9. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Most dexers will say "but we whiff" to justify why mages is forced to stop to cast while archer nukes harder and easier and is superior is most perspective.

    IMO mages are forced to cast is because the verstility. Mages can do great things but is nolonger one of the most effective 1v1 templates unless you are towing a GD or using a dreadmare.

    UO were balanced on mages being the heaviest garrenteed nuke while dexers can rack in more hits and interrupting mages if the mages is attempting to cast a larger spell. But games have changed, the heaviest nukes are super dragon and dreadmare then archers and so on. And with specials a weapon as fast as a kryss or katana can still effectively kill someone in just 3 hits (2hits for an archer with godly bows).

    Then they changed how bandage works (you used to slip on applying aids on ANY amount of damage even 1), mages remain unchanged. Specials moves are added in and mages remain unchanged. Hit spell weapon (especially delayed hit spells being exceptional mage killer) added in chiv 4/6 casting, evasion, then giving archers weapons mods that used to be impossible and over 100% intensity mods on bows and still mages are unchanged. Then introduced remove curse apples, faction bandages and so on and still mages werent changed.

    With the excessive dupe/script on val hammer and fletching kits there are so many godly weapons, dexers archers and increasingly gaining in power while mages are still standing still.

    Ever wonder why many new pvpers (previously trammies) are playing on archers? and many are on evasion dexers. You dont see "new" mages trying to PvP extensively because they will get killed so much that they wont feel any fun factor in playing a mage in PvP. And a lot of new PvPers have gold, say they afford a super bow, they can 2-3 shot kill someone with little effort (if the victim isnt paying attention).

    I have a lot of trammie friends started PvP being an 4/6 chiv healing archer, and even if we tried to get them to play a mage they are all expressed their frustruction how easily they get killed or how people will just run off screen.

    Anyways, it takes a great player to make a mage fearsome and average player on a mage would be easy foe. It takes a great player to make archer/dexer nearly unkillable, and average player with good weapon can make a dexer fearsome. You see the difference.

    All that aside, mages as a group is much much more powerful, due to fields and summons and xheals and can be a slaughtering squad. Which might have been the reason dev decided to render mages in place while pumping up other easier to play templates... to lure new people in to PvP while limiting experienced pvper not able to take out their opponent quickly (IF they are on a mage character that already do many different things).
     
  10. Exgirlfriend

    Exgirlfriend Journeyman
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    99% of the time a mage is forced to use lev 3 or lower spells to be effective, anything higher is to easy to either interupt or run from or heal thru.
     
  11. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    If a dexer is letting a mage casting anything more than a lighting, then the dexer is doing something wrong. Either their gear or they are not "sticking" to the mage really well.

    Yes, in 1v1 if a dexers knows when to run, they will never die to just 1 mage. Especially if they also use comsumables, faction bandages and 4/6 casting with healing. In this case that dexer would have to suck really hard to die to a mage 1v1.

    Mages now is more viable in a group, and uncursed exp eb hits for 22 to 24 and FS hits for 28 is rediculous for the casting time and mana cost but oh well, just adapt, there are more new pvpers than vets meaning there are wayyy more dexers here than mages. A thread like this will often get you flamed even if they dont have anything to say but "mages dont whiff". :scholar:
     
  12. Exgirlfriend

    Exgirlfriend Journeyman
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    I hate that, just adapt thing...after playing for so many years, I like alot of others became comfertable with our templete's. Maybe thats one of the reasons people leave the game.

    I think, allowing mages to cast on the run might be something to consider, the melee would still have time to heal, chug and interupt.
     
  13. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    I am not telling you that you should adapt. Yea I know the power that dexers have now is rediculous to the point that mage are forced to stay as a group. As I mentioned in my first post, reason that mages feel more underpowered now is due to the fact that dexers power INCREASES as their gears advance. The difference between a ****ty weapon and a godly one changed the power of a dexer ALOT. Have you ever seem 2 concussion blow/dual proc 2x AI kill on a straight 70 character with 110hp? Yes its two hit kill and not hard with a godly xbow/comp bow.

    Mages on the other hand, if your opponent is in striahgt 70 and removing curse it will take you at least 500% longer time to kill him assuming if hes not healing/running away. Even if hes afk it will still take your mage longer to kill him than he can kill you. You dont just acquire a godly spellbook and turn into a 2 hit kill machine. But depressingly this is a fact, and unless you quit you have to live with it or until some DEV wake up and figured out something to fix mages.
     
  14. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    You say you hate the "adapt" aspect. Yet, you want a major change in PvP?

    If mages didn't have to stop to cast, you would have mages running around casting greater heal. And considering the mana regen most have, that would be ridiculous. They could also keep running while casting invis, making you have to attack them again, then there is recall, cure, etc. That would just be bad, killing a mage would nearly be impossible if they kept running.

    Also if you are chasing a mage, they can cast on YOU while running away. And of course, spells never miss. Same in reverse, running from a mage. They could kill you while running after you and there wouldn't be anything you can do.
     
  15. lucksi

    lucksi Guest

    I have seen enough mages who could cast very fast while running. For some "odd" reason, I´ve seen it only in fel shorty before being PKed.

    It´s almost fun to get killed by a mage hurling fireballs who is running faster than I´m riding on my mount.
     
  16. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    First of all my vision of mage fix is not casting on the run, IMO it's the low damage long casting time and interruptable all three factors put together limiting mage from bursting AND sustaining damage (talking about pure mage here, so you can leave the whole wraith form out and unless you can wraith form on mount speed, this isnt a valid argument anyway).

    I believe you play an archer too, isnt what you are describing an archer? Other than the never miss part? Assuming you miss 1 out of 2 shots on average, and assuming opponent has 70 physical that's at least 25dmg heavy moving shot dmg + up to two procs or 20 dmg comp bow moving shot + up to 2 procs.

    For magic arrow assuming both mage and archer has the same moving speed, its maximum of 2 magic arrow(8dmg) before an archer completely run out of your screen, on the reverse side, moving shot archer is ALWAYS at full running speed dishing out 20+ dmg every 1.5 second (180 stam 35ssi comp bow) so you will NEVER leave their attackable range, and if you stop and Gheal you risk urself from taking a 35dmg + up to double proc AI. If you mini heal spam (crossing your fingers that you dont get hit) archer gradually gaining on tiles and 1 moving shot = at least 2 mini heals and when they got enough range a good archer will slap you with an AI before you leave their 10 tile range.

    Archers can attack on full run, bandage self on full run, and with balanced they can even chug WHILE ATTACKING regardless they are using a 2handed weapon. An archer can also moving shot you while you are chasing and hes running away full speed. If the mage is slapped by 2 moving shot from the archer that's RUNNING AWAY they are forced to STOP and heal. Now archer can be completely out of screen or the archer can stop for a tick and cleanse you with another AI. Now the mage is running away, with zero chance of leaving archer's range. When mage is forced to defense they CANT attack. Mages stop to attack, stop to heal, stop to do everything, so they should at least do more dmg right? and sadly that's not even true.

    I mean think about it and honestly ask yourself. When is the last time you are running away full hp full speed and gets killed by a mage? You might come back by saying "yea the mage speedhacks" but archers can hack too and can ALWAYS move faster. Without the initial burst, mages aint killing anyone, unless the dexer dc.

    Archers using moving shot is almost as bad as moving casting mage. Yet moving shot is perfectly ok...

    There's a reason why new pvpers start from an archer or a dexer, and not a mage.
     
  17. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Are you implying all mages hack? I am pretty sure Ive seem plenty of dexers gaining tiles on me while attacking with much much higher damage per swing too.

    Both sides are hacking or not. Assuming both move at the same speed, dexers will ALWAYS move faster because mages has to stop to even cast the fastest tiny spells.
     
  18. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    The Mage never misses comment doesn't hold water.

    In reality you do miss, it's called interruption.

    That only makes sense if I can interrupt the dexxer also.

    In 1vs1 there in no balance with the Mage.

    Mages are good "only" in a group, period.
     
  19. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    In the old days a Mage was a feared foe.

    Today he is a "squire" or some water boy, giving the Knight's a drink.
     
  20. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    I agree archers need to be fixed but a mage should ALWAYS have ot stop to cast if evene for a blink. What shoul dbe fixed is the fact that they can grab a -20 DCI mage weapon Crystaline to negate the -20 and make it harder to hit them.
     
  21. ElRay

    ElRay Guest

    Well then, you just go and grab some mace n shield glasses and/or a wep with hit lower defense, and WHAM! that mage with dci is now so much easier to hit!!

    I doubt you will have problems hitting ANYONE when you have 45% hci and hit lower defense, unless of course they have 70% dci

    Oh and not stopping to cast, bad idea. Even though I play primarily a mage.
     
  22. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I never said archers didn't need a fix. You also forget I don't play an archer well. But this thread is not about archers...

    But my whole post was all about what would be IF mages didn't stop to cast. I wasn't talking about how mages are right now.
     
  23. Millie

    Millie Guest

    I always wondered why Mages had to stop to cast while others could keep running away. I could see putting a timer between spell casting but not making them stop. I don't PvP so I really don't understand the Pvp part of it, but I do know that it sucks when the dexer next to you can run form a monster and your stuck to the ground. He lives you die.
     
  24. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    But it doesn't suck when the dexxer plays the role of the meat shield while the mage fires ebolts on the monster.
     
  25. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    For some reason, I keep thinking this change went in some time in 2007 along with several other changes that were made to rebalance PvP. One of the things that this change helped to fix was being able to "rubberband" your character over blocking items if you took a run at them while trying to cast a spell your character couldn't cast. I'm sure that wasn't the primary reason for the change though. It may have been just a side effect of it.

    I checked the Publish 46 notes (http://update.uo.com/design_569.html) and couldn't find this specific change in there, though, so now I'm not entirely certain which publish changed this. I am pretty sure it was mid-2007 though.
     
  26. Nystul

    Nystul Lore Master
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  27. Dragkiris

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    Mages are so underpowered its stupid. There is no reason a mage should 1v1 any dexxer. Dexxers have 4 second aids. 15 second apples. Pots FACTION AIDS. The apple and faction aids can completly negate 240 skill points (necro SS). Now left factor in disarm which puts a mage in retreat mode. Its stupid how shafted mages get. And as far as the -20 dci mage wep. A weapon like that cost 50 million easily. A mage weapon alone can cost as much as a decent dexxers entire suit. Then lets say your not faction. 10 mil orny. 7 mil folded steals. 13 mil crystalline. 13 mil crimmy. 20+mil for inquis. lets say 40 mil for a good mage weapon like you describe. Oh 9 mil for a AOF. Then on your other pieces you need 40 lrc at leaste 7 lmc (to get you 35) and 4 MR cause you only have 3 mr so far. Not to mention super high resist cause your wearing the inquis and aof with have horrid resist. Wow seems a mage has to spend 5X more on his suit to be competative.
     
  28. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    A moot point because an archer is dexer too. And for killing monsters... when's the last time you ebolt something CONSISTANTLY for 180 to 250 damage a pop? Yes its very common on an archer but impossible on a mage. What's your point again?
     
  29. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    It makes too much sense to be agreed by many.
    If I spend 50 mill for a 15dci -20mage weapon only thing I am going to gain from it is getting hit less (moot point when most archers has max hci + HLD) and able to chug (assuming a 1 handed mage weapon).

    Now if an archer spend 50mill for a balanced dual proc xbow/composite. They now have the ability to 2 shot you AND still have the ability to chug just like you. They can STILL proform moving shot/concussion/AI while they are slapping on a 60 hp bandage at 4 second a pop WHILE eating apples WHILE running you down with you having zero chance leaving his range AND/OR running away while bandaging WHILE shooting at you with double proc moving shot (and they hurt).

    I am amazed by people who didnt notice the disadvantages mages are at and the advantages the archers can have. And to be honest, many of them KNOW about it but refused to admit that archers/mages should be changed in some ways.
     
  30. Black magick

    Black magick Guest

    My thoughts are that mages are fine the way they are. My primary pvp characters are all some kind of mage and its pretty hard to kill me. If you suck enough to die to moving shot or not know how to get through a clown spamming his specials, I suggest you go try some other template.
     
  31. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest

    because that is how it is ...
    basicly it is a role playing thing , a mage when casting tosses the regents into the air and chants the magic incantation to creat the spell.

    having the mage spellbook holds the spells that you have 'learned'.
     
  32. Millie

    Millie Guest

    I don't know who you play with, but dexers with me are kept healed by me before I even think of casting on a monster.
     
  33. Exgirlfriend

    Exgirlfriend Journeyman
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    I believe mages where nerfed to force people to buy the necro expansion, typical EA...

    Any dev's care to step up on this issue?
     
  34. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Mages got positive changes with AOS. They got LRC, LMC, SDI, FC, FCR, not to forget defense chance jewelry which they can equip. They also added in spell channeling for shields and weapons. Most popularly used were spell channeling shields so mages could add in parry.

    I do not believe any of these mentioned changes required players to buy AOS.
     
  35. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Actually since AOS from the abilities you listed LMC was capped, FC,FCR was caped for mages and because of the 80 dex requirement for parry parry mages have become a thing of the past not to mention my beloved tank mage template. It's the usual thing they givith then they takeith away.
     
  36. DuttyD

    DuttyD Guest

    It sometime seems some mages don't need to stop running
     
  37. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    True, they did give them caps. But compared to pre-aos, this is still a big addition. 3/6 casts fast enough, LMC cap understandable. Although considering some Mana Regen set-ups people have, (forgot to add that in) LMC doesn't really mean much, lol.
    But even with the 80 dex requirement, many still carry the shields for the added bonus' they can give.
     
  38. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    its simple. get on a mage urself and cast a few spells and i challenge you to tell me 1 spell that you can cast without standing still...

    i mean no point guessing just try it urself and you will bust this mage dont have to stop and cast myth yourself.

    also someone said mages were nerfed to lure people to buy aos... i beg to differ. in fact dexers were buffed by aos greatly pally necro then got buffed again by sammy and ninja then archers got their major buff from ML from over 100% intensity on bows balanced and dual hit spell... the only valid mage temp however is still stuck at necro mage. After aos mages have been standing still while dexers getting their share of buff from every single expansion they throw out.

    all that aside when is the last time you see a pure none necromage killing people in 2 blows under 4 seconds and everyone just run away from him? i know thats archers im describing but i just want to make a point.

    mages werent nerfed, they are simply not buffed enough compare to dexers. mages without a group is very fragile. they deal less dmg, deal them slower and forced to stop giving dexers free swings while casting something big. Honestly, ask yourself you really have no clue why a lot more people chose to go archers and not pure mages?

    PvP Mages now days are nothing but a proud status of being an experienced vet PvPer thats willing to take on challenges w/ the template they played for years even if that means they are now underpowered.
     
  39. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Huh... They already do this on Siege. Oh wait, my bad.. It only applies to one guild on Siege. Nevermind. :spider:
     
  40. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    And when this guild gets on their archer characters they will be able to do "moving concussion blow", "moving paralyze blow", "moving armor ignore", "moving dismounting shot", "moving moving shot(they gain on tiles when they do this)".

    I mean another one here justifying mages are ok because all mages speedhack. There are still a lot of legit players left in the game. A speedhacker plays a mage hes speedhacking, and when he switches character and got on an archer hes legit and pure skill now?

    Ohhh no way hes a dexer and dexers never hack... jeez give me a break. Using "hacks" to justify that its ok for certain class/template to be underpowered isnt the way to go. Seems like people making comments like this has the tendency to think that only people that dont hack is the ones that play templates similar to their own.....
     
  41. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Not an argument for or against the maes being able to cast while moving,

    but me and a friend tested something the other day and found a curious "perk":

    When someone (seemed only to be humans) were carrying a conjurers trinket a mage in orc form (polymorphed) did 80+damage to a 70fire non cursed target. However, you still need to be on foot and stop and lucky enough to not get interrupted and the person carry that tali.

    on the topic, mages do seem to be standing still as far as temp "upgrades" have gone since the necro skill. Pots and faction bandies make pretty much every mage template alot harder(some [nox mage] pretty much useless) to play but at the same time alot more rewarding when you get those 1vs1 kills against a dexxer.
     
  42. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Which is why I refer to mages are more like a "status" of a skilled player taking on challenge than a "viable" and "equally powerful" template compare to today's dexers.

    I'd say I rack in kills on PvP fields easier, more and faster on my archer (of course I have a sweet sweet 50+m dual proc composite 48Lighting+46Velocity+35ssi is SWEET and my guildie just handed it to me for free) but in group fight I am often on my mage. I can help the guild more. Mages (especially pure mages) are reduced to nothing but axhealing fielding machine on the field that occasionally throws some ebolts here and there). Took me a long time to be a useful and 1v1 capable mage, and it took me... 3 days of casual PvP for me to completely figure out how to play an archer that KILLS... Mobility is my archers friend, and no mages has killed me 1v1 yet on field fight... Well maybe one, but he bola all killed me with a GD so I dont consider that a real mage neither. All he cast was curse and poison (instant countered by my apple+pot), but I was still killed 3 screens away w/ over half HP left by a fireball for some strange reason).

    At least someone knows what he's talking about... thank you. Well I feel that mages arent going to change for a long long time to come, just want to say something that a DEV might finally realize "Ohh is that why so many people play archer/dexers now?" duh...
     
  43. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I knew if I dug long enough, I would find the "official" explanation. Here it is, in a FoF from October 19, 2007: http://www.uo.com/fof/fiveonfriday82.html .

    Edited to add:

    Here's the Q&A from the FoF, for everyone that's too lazy to click the link:

     
  44. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Two suggestions based on the conversations in this thread.

    1. Increase the SDI increase cap in PvP from 15% to 45% (or some other number, allowing mages to start competing in the DPS with archers and dexxers)

    2. Increase the mana cost of moving shot so at max LMC it would cost 20 or more mana instead of a measly 4-5 mana.
     
  45. thechoppa

    thechoppa Guest

    Am I dreaming or what? Am I the only one to realize that, nowadays, with mana regeneration easily available on armor, a "mage" only needs 240 skill points wich he can use to:

    Heal and cure himself and others from a distance
    Bless himself and others
    Reveal, either with the reveal spell or with area effect.
    Curse and see the opponets resists fall from 70 to 60
    inflict lower poison that makes the foe need an additionnal bandie or to chug a pot
    Teleport on a roof or on the other side of a river to escape a dexer
    Paralyse
    Mana drain any player that has no resists to 0 mana
    summon deamons and such
    place paralyse, energy and poison feilds at choke points
    Hide
    Etc.

    As for the possibility of being disrupted, have any of you heard about the spell protection? Can you kill a good and well geard dexer with only magery and eval? Well, I beleive many very skillfull mages could, but why bother doing that the hard way, there is still 480 skill points to choose from to complete that mage. How about wrestling, so you can disarm thoses big bad dexxers? Why not have taming skill added to that so your dread horse can deal 50 damage firebreaths on the run?

    Lets face it, magery is by far the most complete skill to have, as it covers as much offensive than defensive aspect. It wrecks any class of player who don't have resisting spells, can easily defeat the hiding/stealth template (theives, assassin). All the successefull guilds in Fel have a very large portion of there members using magery. So, you really want to make people beleive its not powerfull enough?

    Now really? Seriously? Casting on the run, right? Hum...
     
  46. thechoppa

    thechoppa Guest

    Well why not 100 SDI, after all dexer do have 100 DI? So yah, I say 100 SDI with casting spells on the run and, while we are at it, why not bring back 6 FC?

    I say for moving shot, just add a 65th spell called Archer Armaggeddon. Once casted, if an archer attemps to move shot you, he just explodes, and looses all his armor/weapons in the process.
     
  47. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

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    Really wouldn't have been noticed how overpowering the archer or dexer population has gotten for one true hard fact. It took a huge number of duped val hammers and scripting the fletcher quest to field so many rocks under a helmet. And if every runic and GMed piece of armor/weapon is not removed from the game before Imbueding is released..........your going to see it stepped up a lvl. Go from snorting the rock to cooking it to perfection.

    And to the PVM healing the rock under the helmet to be your meat shield is my fav tactic. Saves you three skill slots on taming if the rock knows your going to keep him alive while he scuffs his armor. Used to run anat heal mage and added chiv with staff of magi. But that was about having fun and not trying to outdo the Jones's nextdoor.
     
  48. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    It's not really specific to UO. In pretty much every MMO there's usually a movement restriction on casting, or at least casting any "serious" spell. Healing almost always forces you to be sitting duck and take damage or get killed trying to pull the spell off. And most of the "worthwhile" (cast time and mana rate : damage ratio) spells are on relatively long timers and require you to stand still.

    Unfortunately, as online RPG's (I use the term loosely) have morphed more towards pandering the action game and casual gamer crowds, they've become faster-paced with more frenetic action, fast-speed running or movement abilities. There are games for instance (I'm staring down WOW with one eye) where even from day one, the cast timer on many offensive spells was longer than the time it took for someone with default, vanilla movement speed to run out of range of the spell. I don't really understand the logic of that given that casters tend to have the poorest defenses, lowest health, are easiest to kill in close range, and to top all THAT off, tend to have their spells interrupted when they take damage. These are more or less universal statements about casters in MMO's in general... relevant to, but not exclusive to, UO.

    What's emerged are cheesy tactics which serve to hem in... if not outright marginalize casters in online games. Speeding into melee range, hitting, and speeding back out of spell range before a caster can react would be one. Or getting into, and staying in, very close range with a high-speed attacker (say fencing in UO, or a rogue in WOW) so that spell interruptions remain so consistent and frequent that the caster is unable to react or defend himself in any meaningful way. Add in WOW's case the super cheese tactic of how you can hit with melee weapons from a good 270 degrees around the front of your character... but a caster pretty much has to be facing (within a 90 degree pie or so) directly at his target in close range in order to fire a spell or else he gets a "You must be in front of your target" message when you try to cast. This gets exploited because in the high-speed fast-paced nature of WOW combat melee simply spin around you in a tight circle, stabbing you all the while, continuously breaking any spell you try to cast with a "the target is not in front of you" message. (Your character does not auto-spin to keep the target in front of him while casting.)

    I think that in "old school" fantasy/RPG, the tradeoff for the many downsides of casters was that they had tremendous power packed into their spells... and could do more in a shorter time than a melee could, though they might be exhausted afterwards until they re-memorized spells or recovered their mana. Melee traditionally filled the role of being more "consistent" damage takers and damage doers--- not capable of fantastic immediate devastating performance, but solid and would hang in there reliably throughout a longer period, not relying on burst damage and then having to back off and recover. This has changed.

    In online RPG's, the standard has virtually become the opposite. Mages and casters tend to be, with the help of mana regen and similar gear mods (which they more or less need) do a fairly consistent level of DPS from the background. Melee tend to be up front able to take damage best, and able to deal it out best in short spurts. (Unlimited high close-range DPS if there is adequate levels of healing and support... a role in which the caster often finds himself consigned in many MMO's.)

    I think a lot of this is gear changes which have become normal. The game starts with set damages on spells.... not on what a melee can do given the right damage weapon. When games keep adding gear, the level of damage melee can take, and dole out, tends to significantly ramp up (better armor available, better weapons available) while gear changes to the damage casters do tend to be almost afterthoughts or slap-on's, with the base damage for spells usually not changing even through major patches or expansions. Casters I'm sure can still do sick damage in a couple of spells with the right gear and spell damage increase related mods. But they still have the constraints of running out of mana, needing to stop to cast, having little close-in protection or defense, and no other meaningful means of defense once they've expended mana. Melee have no such constraints and they tend to ultimately gain an upper hand over casters by the time a game has been patched and expanded a bit, and especially after superior linear progressions of gear have been introduced.

    It seems I veered pretty far off topic. It's just think I think the OP really is mentioning something that is happening to casters in general in online games... it's not specific to UO.
     
  49. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    100 sdi is not the same as 100 di, look at the base damage of a weapon and the base damage of a spell, 100 di put on a 15 base damage weapon is 30 damage then knock of 70% for resists, that leaves 9 damage. The spell that would be around the same damage would be magic arrow, step it up to fireball and your doubling your damage. It is pretty balanced as it is right now with sdi to di.

    I assume your are joking anyways but just for those that don't understand the math behind how this stuff works. It would be even crazy at 45% sdi. My pvm mage runs at about 80ish sdi and he can really pack a punch.
     
  50. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    I'll bet even at 45% SDI an archer is still going to outdamage you.