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Why dont we have the VVV arties?

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Bo Bo, Sep 29, 2014.

  1. Bo Bo

    Bo Bo Lore Keeper
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    So it seems siege didnt get the vvv artis, why is that? Do we not pay the same subscription rates as everyone else? So there is no risk vs reward on siege?
     
  2. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    You don't read Stratics with all the other fellow siege players crying to please not allow them..maybe the Devs actually listened, strange....


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  3. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    Thats a very short list of crying Siege players.
     
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  4. Oscar the Grouch

    Oscar the Grouch Site Support
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    Did Siege lose any of the other rewards or just the usable equipment? (not that it is a "just" or anything).
     
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  5. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Siege don't need them :p
     
  6. Victim of Siege

    Victim of Siege Crazed Zealot
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    Was this discussed at the meet and greet on the 24th? I am curious as to why they would leave this out and then add the system at all. I would think we would have been given the opportunity to weigh in on this as a shard. IMHO it makes no sense to add this system, but not all of the rewards.
     
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  7. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    I have made a few posts in the threads leading up to this system asking the devs not to add another artifact vending machine to Siege.

    Just like the non faction/VvV players, the faction/VvV players should get their equipment from farming/crafting or buy from farmers/crafters. In my eyes that makes it a more fair gameplay.
     
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  8. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    You know you can count on me to be against vending machine arties and any thing blessed. I think we won this time.

    As a note. There is nothing stopping any one from playing the full content of Publish 86 on any shard ya so wish. Bonus is! Ya get to still play Siege when ya want.
     
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  9. Bo Bo

    Bo Bo Lore Keeper
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    more fair? so there is no risk vs reward is there? If you wanted it to be fair leave it open to everyone, oh thats right it already is. Nothing stopping people from joining, just makes you freely attackable everywhere you go. You dont think people should get a reward excepting that sort of challenge? We are stuck with a system of pvp for deco! The friggin sots are account bound, this is great on siege where there is 1 character per account. And in order to be in vvv you should already be trained up.
     
  10. Bo Bo

    Bo Bo Lore Keeper
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    really then why are those spell books still blessed? Bo doesnt see you pushing for those to become unblessed, know why cause you and yours use them.
     
  11. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    The reward is you get to attack any orange without taking counts, even in towns.
     
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  12. Bo Bo

    Bo Bo Lore Keeper
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    thats not really true, Bo has already been guard wacked twice during a VvV battle. And who cares bout counts with the new royal pardon?
     
  13. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    We had seen how much damage factions arties did to the shard in the past, no need to do same mistake 2 times.
    I think the VvV system is fine as it is here as it improve alliances and guild wars.
    I like, not all in a guild have to join and joining gives you far more enemies than guild wars did. Also the facts, that it do not mess up alliances as Faction did is cool.
     
  14. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Well, since those people who are not into pvp will obviously not want to join VvV and everyone who IS into pvp, especially reds like yourself who are already freely attackable, and can attack anyone freely outside of town, WILL join, faction arties would only give a boost to pkers vs peaceful, thus an imbalance.

    I actually am FOR vending machine items for pvp points, just not super artifacts or anything blessed.
    I think pvpers should be able to gear up without farming, but that gear shouldn't be obviously better than what everyone else has access to.

    Honestly I think the whole VvV system is kinda stupid. Fights over town are pointless (unlike factions), there are no rewards of use to pvpers, and it drags in people who don't want to be involved and perma flags them. It does give pkers one bonus, that of being able to attack those non pvp characters who get stuck in VvV towns and get perma flagged anywhere in the world without repercussion.

    So guess you will be happy with that bonus.
     
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  15. Bo Bo

    Bo Bo Lore Keeper
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    what damage did farties do to siege? Did it chase off non pvpers? alliance and guild wars what are you talking about?
    Ok as the Bo sees it, on todays Siege there is far more non pvpers here than pvpers. So your theory of losing non pvpers doesnt hold much water. We lost all the pvpers because it was too hard for the pvpers to get the gear needed to pvp.
    Uvtha is 100% correct in his thinking. You arent going to keep pvpers here if they have to farm gear everytime they die. They are pvpers not farmers. And dont tell the Bo there are people here sellin good gear, more like hording it.
    As for your guild/alliance wars VvV system, what does that matter this shard is ruled by a 230+ guild with several other large alliances. Do you really think they are going to fight anyone?
     
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  16. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
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    Just like the non faction/VvV players, the faction/VvV players should get their equipment from farming/crafting or buy (kill) from farmers/crafters. In my eyes that makes it a more fair gameplay.
     
  17. SpyderBite

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    I have no problem with arties of any type.. As long as they aren't blessed. We fought an uphill battle 10 years ago to get everything unblessed. Blessing PvP or any type of arti would be a big step backwards.
     
  18. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Yes it did chase of non faction PvP'ers and non PvP'ers too as no one had a chance vs the overpowered Faction items we had a few years ago.
    If some guild members wanted to join Faction, you had to make a new guild for them and old and new guild could not be allied.
    Yes we lost PvP'ers who did not want to be in faction and a guild like GIL almost stopped trying to PvP, they did try to PvP in the past.

    Yes they want easy and cheap PvP gear, but it will work well if it comes from crafters and monster killers. As long they can find a new suit, when they need one, all will be fine.
    You never know, give it a little time, I'm sure it will changes the alliances and you will see more PvP'ers cross the guilds.
     
  19. Guardian KX

    Guardian KX Lore Keeper

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    More people need to learn to fight with cheap azz GM imbued armor, weapons, shields, whatever. Any mage can get crappy casting jewels from Ettins and such and dont have to waste high level resources. Any tamer can get any type of pets to PvP with. HERE HERE I say to another goody fest being cast down on a shard DESIGNED to be player ran and motivated. Well said Kelmo on dumping vending ideas. I never liked the idea of a one person demi god running around solo to drop 10 players on a screen. Kudos to the players who run a guild based on fighting with normal made items and gear. I'll even go so far as say good job to those who take the time to farm high level loot in shame and such and then go out and rock the faction based Arti holders (If your in these areas its because you WANT to find PvP items and that's where the reds go and the PvP is best... One feeds the other).

    Siege is a player based community... Well done to the Devs for nerfing crap that's not needed here.

    Long Live Siege P.
     
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  20. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Yes farties did chase people off. To non faction folks there is no orange. Yet faction players could lay waste to any non PvP folks they found outside a guard zone. Factions was totally screwed up by dev teams in the past trying to cater to PvPers. Pvpers are not the majority.

    I play Siege to PvP everyday... Even if I do not fight or flee very often these days, I choose this rule set. I choose Siege.

    if you want to keep yer pixels... you have options to do so.

    I play a game. I can lose most of my gear in a heart beat. If I lose it the person the gets it can use it.

    And if you think I am for any damned thing blessed on Siege... you have not ever heard a word I said over the dozen years I have played here. I would love for those spell books to be looted.
     
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  21. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    If yer gonna be a bad guy and PK crafters... work for it.
     
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  22. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I may be the dissenting voice here of a non pvper who is for gearing pvpers, but here's my thinking...

    Since the game is, of course, designed for prodo shards, and not siege, the itemization here is fairly out of whack. Since the itemization is designed for players who never lose their gear the game does not very functionally support a playstyle that regularly loses gear.

    A competitive suit these days is an awfully complicated affair compared to the days of yore when you could stock up a pile of suits in little time and at a reasonable cost, or gear up by killing other players, which are far and few between these days, assuming you are into pking rather than consensual pvp.

    If you are someone who pvps as their main game activity you will obviously die and lose your gear on average a lot more often than a peaceful/pvm player like myself. I think I've been using the same suit for like 6 months. So when you just want to pvp, and you have a bad day and die 4-5 times... you may be out of suits, and out of the game for however long it takes you to either gather up resources. I personally can understand how that would be very annoying, and make you just want to find another game that deal with pvp in a more modern way.

    Everyone seems to think that pvp vending machine earned gear is not "earned". I personally don't see it that way. I earn my gear by killing monsters/collecting gold. Pvpers would earn their gear by pvping other people who WANT to pvp, rather than being forced to stalk the land looking for some idiot like myself to chase around for hours, and hope whatever I was using is valuable or useful to their template.

    The way I feel is that pvpers shouldn't be forced to pvm to gear, and pvm players shouldn't be forced to pvp to gear. People should get to focus on the way they WANT to play as much as possible.

    I am as I said against UBER arties being handed out. What I WOULD do is make a few sets of armor ala the trade in armor sets, that were good but not uber so that people could have a good quick base for their suits, and then add in another vendor/box that would spawn you a random magical item like you find on monsters for silver points.

    Of course the real fix I would like if for siege to have its own developers so we don't have to live with catch as catch can bleed over code, but that's clearly a fantasy.

    I've just kinda rambled on and I don't have time to edit my thoughts down into something clearer, but... you can probably get the idea.
     
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  23. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    Nice thought out reply, much better than just labeling someone a crafter killer :p
     
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  24. Bo Bo

    Bo Bo Lore Keeper
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    Yall dont understand what you have just created. You are going to make a bigger gap between the haves and the havenots. Items that give a bonus like no other (crimmies, tangles, nice talismans etc) will become expensive and will now only be worn by people who know they wont lose them. (or can afford too). Bo can say, bo has already seen a down turn in the armor bo loots from people. People are wearing crappier gear, why because they are getting looted more by pvpers. This is gonna create a vacuum where all the good gear is sucked up by the better pvpers or stuck in chests for fear of losing it. So people that are not so good pvpers will wear crappier suits and die even faster to those that have the gear.
     
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  25. Shelra

    Shelra Seasoned Veteran
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    Well said.
     
  26. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    This I would have no problem with at all.

    I just think PvPers have become to used to having farties and such and think that having anything less on when fighting isn´t gonna work.
    We saw that a couple years ago when KoC/BFF/420/*insert guild name of the day* were still here. Someone lost their fartie suit and couldn´t get a buyback that night so they logged. They refused to equip barbed runic armor or whatever and continue fighting because "what was the point?". And that resulted in them going to prodo because they refused to wear anything less than faction arties and losing them too often here was too much of a hassle.

    Now with the absence of VvV artifacts, good monster loot and minor artifacts will become the new high-end.

    So now the ball is in the farmers hands.
    If we wanna keep our biggest costumers happy, the PvPers, we better stock our vendors...
     
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  27. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Sounds like Siege is having the same problems as when I left 2 years ago... sigh.
     
  28. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I personally thought, and I said so at the time, that faction arties were a bad idea. Spoiling people is not a good idea. I honestly don't blame people who got hooked on them, it's only natural. This is the problem with bleed over code. But letting pvpers gear up via silver points with reasonable loot would only be helpful. It would keep pvpers going and lessen the need to kill people who can't pvp for their loot.

    I did have a thought about VvV though... can non VvV people use the decos? Cause I want some of them, so maybe the pvpers can sell them to back gear purchases? Dunno.
     
  29. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    All we need are better access to resources
    Remove 3x prices so we get cheaper gems
    Add 2x ressource drop on all Siege facets to give us more resources
    Add the 1000 luck bonus to all Siege facets to give us better loot without being forced to use luck suit.
    Allow recall again or make gating take zero magery to help the warriors get around.
    changes vendor fee to cost very little both on normal vendors and stall vendors.
    Then I believe we will see alot more vendors and it will be easier to find a new suit.


    That would be ok
     
  30. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    That would all surely help, but I don't know that devs could be convinced to do it. :/
     
  31. Ru TnT

    Ru TnT Seasoned Veteran
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    Which ones did you want Iki? I got my pardon already, so there isn't anything left that I am interested in.
     
  32. Ru TnT

    Ru TnT Seasoned Veteran
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    I don't think we should have recall or 0 magery gating. It might not be too bad though if they could allow the gate spell to be cast if the player had the required skill level in another magical skill(ninja, sw, bushido, etc...)
     
  33. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Banners, but I don't know which.
     
  34. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    "I got my pardon already" was pretty telling :) sorry couldnt resist. As for Freja's requests, I like all of them , however as for gating, I think they should change it so gate scrolls work with 0 magery, not just a free gate for everyone.
     
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  35. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Yes Gate scrolls work with 0 magery would do and give some sale to the inscripters, both from sale of scrolls and filled runebooks like town books
     
  36. SpyderBite

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    Seems to me, we're throwing the baby out with the bath water.

    Granted these ideas are all hypothetical. But its a slippery slope and we seem to be going down it head first. Wouldn't be wiser to look at changes that can be made to the brand new VvV system rather than stripping Siege's difficulty down to nothing but a prodo shard without insurance? I mean, we're talking about some arties here. And instead of just considering ways to accommodate PvP with them, we're tossing out christmas lists of things that have made Siege what it has been for years.

    Anyways. Just seems like we're getting carried away here. I'd suggest reigning it in a bit and go back to basics on this discussion before we start giving away free recalls & cheap resources.

    Just my $.02
     
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  37. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I mean just time them down..make the actual artifacts stronger..so a VVV Garb is 1 MR 5dci..you still get the artifacts but they aren't making the non VvV participants at a huge disadvantage..then again. If you want the advantage, opt in.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  38. Guardian KX

    Guardian KX Lore Keeper

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    Everything you just said in the above post translates to "Make Siege a Barneyland shard". Recall was NEVER allowed. Every single thing you asked for can be found on another shard. This leaves the only question "Why the hell are you on Siege?".

    Love ya Freja, but please keep away from the vodka and prescription pills when making posts.
     
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  39. Scuzzlebutt

    Scuzzlebutt Babbling Loonie
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    It all sounds like a blast!
     
  40. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    Sadley VvV can Easily be offset by one player ESPECIALLY on siege in OFF times all it take is another char on an account in another guild and you can sit on the alters as I saw done 2 times the other day and get points for doing NOTHING, so farming VvV is just like farming silver.

    AND NO THIS SHOULD NOT BE REWARDED, NEITHER SHOULD SILVER BE TRANSFERRED.

    As Bo is so fond of being a bully and has no qualms about voicing it in general chat- sorry BO that you cannot get EASY uber items anymore for just killing someone :-( SO SORRY
     
  41. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    Asty and Beezle, Return to Britannia started today if you guys wanna pop in and play a little.
     
  42. Bo Bo

    Bo Bo Lore Keeper
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    haha so Bo is a bully now? When has the Bo ever called boself a bully? Sounds like you are tryin to bully the Bo for the Bo having an opinion. And for someone that knows alot bout the bo, whats your siege characters name?
    As for not being able to get easy uber items anymore from just killing someone youre right. The Bo will have to kill multiple people to get the uber items needed, cause everyone usually carries one or two nice items. So bo will be out killing and dry looting even more. And when did we get uber items for killing other faction characters, it actually sounds like you have no clue bout how factions worked.
     
  43. Bo Bo

    Bo Bo Lore Keeper
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    Bo wishes bo could find the screen shots of the house roofs of certain people (like Nym and Asty, bo thinks) from before faction arties were introduced. The piles of arties that they had would shock the **** out of everyone here. This is what is going to happen again, it will be the players with the most amount of gold checks will rule the day. Bo is just tryin to make a level playing field, these not being here actually benefit the Bo more than just about any other player.
     
  44. SpyderBite

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    I'll take stockpiles over Insurance. Bring on the arites. Just don't bless them.
     
  45. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I didnt see the recall bit. I am very against recall. That's one of the most important differences in siege imo, not being able to nearly 100% run away.

    I am for extra resources and easier drops though. It's not an ideal solution, but with itemization the way it is its better for good stuff to be easier to get than harder.
     
  46. Scuzzlebutt

    Scuzzlebutt Babbling Loonie
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    I no longer have access to my accounts. I might have been tempted otherwise.
     
  47. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    You was not playing, when Factions Artifacts messed up the shard and did alot damage. You have no idea what you wish for, you just want it easy
     
  48. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    I know I will +1 Siege today after work. With the removal of faction arties and especially MI.... I am excited. That is why I quit SP. Got tired of fighting my ass off to get to some far off dark corner no one would bother fighting their way to, only to be killed by some moron walking thru the hoards with impunity (MI).

    All patched up and waitin for this afternoon! Just wish my compadre Ginsu was able to attend as well.
     
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  49. SpyderBite

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    Were there changes to the faction equipment since 2006? I was here when there were issues with faction items being blessed.

    I don't want it easy. In fact I'm playing a thief template so these arties will not do me any good. They'll make it harder for me.

    Now. My point wasn't that I was advocating easy access to overpowered arties. My point was that if we do get stuck with them then I don't want them blessed.

    Or, change the arties so that they are no more or less powerful than spawn drops.

    Those are compromises that I tossed out there.

    Personally, I think things are fine right now. I'm seeing plenty of people participating in VvV and enjoying it.

    But this issue isn't about my opinion. That's why I suggested a couple impartial compromises.
     
  50. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron The DarkOutlaws, TDO

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    Yes there was changes and they was bad, It was not about them being blessed but about them being so powerful, that a non faction did not have a chance in a fight vs a faction player. I don't remember what year it was but it was bad.
    When using items from monster drop and crafted items, all can have same gear, that's much better.
     
    WhiteWitch and Wolfman like this.