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Why even the current RoT system is still the biggest problem for Siege Perilous.

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Sandwich, Sep 17, 2008.

  1. Sandwich

    Sandwich Adventurer
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    I was going to post this in BlacK RaiN's thread but thought it might be too much of a derail from the other ideas being discussed.

    I know I'm just another one of those people that moved on to WoW and seem to only have bad things to say about this game, but I will tell you that my time spent playing here was not a waste. I had some of my best gaming memories playing here. I've met some really cool people and a few long term friends in the process.

    Now that I've hopefully convinced you that I'm not just throwing negative garbage at you all...

    You will never get more than a few solo players that end up joining pre-existing guilds with a system that requires you to train for 2-3 months, getting every possible gain, just to have a finished character. It really should not take more than a month of getting all your gains to be maxed out.

    I'm sure this will not sit well with most of you since you have all spent a great deal of time filling up soul stones, but I sincerely believe that you will never get an actual guild of fresh, never stepped foot on Siege players to start here if character development continues to take such a large amount of time.

    Don't believe me? Look around.

    Sure, there are always a few new faces hanging around the bank, but when hasn't there been? Over the course of the 4ish years I played here, I witnessed countless people spend about a month here, get 1 or 2 skills to around GM and quit because they just don't have/want to spend the time to compete with pre-established players and guilds that are so hungry for fresh blood that they are simply killed into oblivion.

    This shard has been driving in circles for the better part of this decade and the RoT "fix" was, in my opinion, only dangling a shinier carrot in front of the most loyal player base they could ever hope to have.

    I know that shortening the RoT gain process is somewhat betraying what this shard originally was, but if all of you really, really, REALLY want things to change, sacrifices must be made.

    Bite the [censored] bullet.

    Just to reiterate and cut through my rant for those of you that skipped my wall of text:-

    RoT still takes 3x as long as it should for there to ever be more than a handful of stragglers that join NEW for a month and never come back.

    You may now call me a trammie and compare me to random UHall posters 1-1,000.
     
  2. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    In my opinion, we are biting the bullet. Let's see what happens.
     
  3. Revvo

    Revvo Slightly Crazed
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    One of the things that always makes me smile is when i see a post saying WoW is a horrible grind and they will never spend all that time on a game where you have to level a character. Yet you can now probably level a first time character to 70 in about 2-3 weeks (Their DEV's actually exist and their CS listens to it's customers) yet it takes months to get a usable character on Siege. Siege Perilous - Check your logic at the door.
     
  4. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Two to three weeks is good for WoW? Really?
     
  5. Shakaja

    Shakaja Guest

    but then again we arent complaining on the wow boards about wow while we play uo xD
     
  6. Sandwich

    Sandwich Adventurer
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    I may not be able to speak directly for Revvo, but I myself complain because I still have feelings for this old run down beast of a server.

    If things weren't so twisted and neglected, a lot of people (including several of your own friends) might still be playing.
     
  7. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    I completely agree Sammich. No real need for further comment, just yup..

    Revvo, it's not just the time spent 'grinding' that I dislike about class/level based games, it's much more. I hate how it's all so linear. You go to The n00b region until lvl 20, then off to Zone 2 for 30-40, then off to the next zone for 40-50, and so on. Once you are done there, you never have a reason to go back. Sure in UO you have low-end critters you never actively hunt once your wep skill is past 60, but it doesn't typically preclude you from going back there. There's also the flexibility of creating your own unique template in skill based games.

    I'm not going to argue back and forth with you, it really doesn't matter in the end, I hope you love WoW forever and ever. My point is just that many people's dislike for 'the grind' is not as simple as you make it out to be.
     
  8. Ole Cheapy

    Ole Cheapy Guest


    No, Moonglow Merchant was right, ROT takes even longer now than it did before. How could people smart enough to code be this dumb?
     
  9. Dakkon Blackblade

    Dakkon Blackblade Seasoned Veteran
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    I can see where you are coming from Sandwhich I mean I just started Siege yesterday myself, and I am looking forward to the grind of training a newb. But to be fair none of what Siege presents is new to me aside from the few shard unique things like not being able to sell/train from a vendor and things like that.

    However for a new player that never played during the old times, who maybe has a piqued curiosity about giving it a go would probably not look forward too the hard work required to make a character from nothing without all of tools they are used to having at their disposal.

    I also agree that the Shard will not likely get anywhere major without an infusion of new blood, so small things like the second character slot may have to be a concession for that in order to happen.

    I would like to say though that there does come a point where you have to draw the line with concessions, especially for a shard like Siege. If you do too much of what everyone else wants then Siege is in danger of losing it's identity.
     
  10. Mogluk

    Mogluk Guest

    yeah but if anything this shard distances itself from the game of UO (trammie shards) and other GAMES (non consentual PvP where youactually loose stuff). the UO siege style of game where you live at your own risk (living in a guard zone or roughing it in red land).

    If the Devs ever pulled their collective heads out and saw how active and long lasting this format is they would try and beef it up to actually compete with the big boys. I think that the siege format (with some tweaks) would really compete because it is trully a risk based game unlike so many care bear games.

    and yes I will prolly try out warhammer online tonight when it goes live.......
     
  11. Hera - Siege

    Hera - Siege Lore Master
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    True, 2-3 weeks for WoW if you're fairly diligent. I did it with my Hunter and My Pally, prob'ly even less now with the 3x experience deal.

    BUT...
    Once you're level 70, that's not it, you now get to grind for gear, whether to get to the next better instance or compete with the Arena crowd. The grind never stops, at least with UO, once you're maxxed out, that's it and you're done. Granted, you have to find gear, but it's not as gear intensive as WoW and at any rate the Gear is much easier to obtain.

    Additionally the classless system of UO in my opinion beats the living kaka out of any class-based system. I hate Class based systems, UO really spoiled me for that, the freedom is really nice. UO crafting is top notch as well, most games force you to purchase the raw materials, there's no way to really gather them. My first Siege character was a smith, and I really enjoyed it. I despise how in WoW I had to level a character minimum level to move to the next crafting tier.

    So basically in WoW you're always the hamster in the wheel because they keep releasing new cooler pixel candy. At least in UO that's kept to a minimum.
     
  12. Ole Cheapy

    Ole Cheapy Guest


    I like both UO and WOW and I agree with this, wow also consumes way more time than UO.
     
  13. Revvo

    Revvo Slightly Crazed
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    How many U.O players would love to have a never ending input of new content and challenges :) No matter what you may think the grind in WoW is no different than the U.O grind just a lot less apparent. I mean Luna is basically identical to a battle ground in WoW, you fight in the same scene against the same people running the same templates at least in WoW that grind ends in rewards.

    I have always said WoW is not the perfect game by a long way but it's just nice to see a DEV team that instantly fixes bugs, bans instantly for any serious cheating and adds huge patches of new content every few months.

    I agree with Sandwich though when you play a game for so many years it still matters to you what goes on within it and when you see bad things happening you still care.

    I can't help it, i like making fun of stupid people and i'm lazy so Stratics is the easiest port of call :)
     
  14. Ole Cheapy

    Ole Cheapy Guest

    How you even fixed your mouth to say something like this is waaaay beyond me! *shakes head*
     
  15. HaHa

    HaHa Guest

    He does have a purty mouth.

    I am curious though Revvo, you mentioned rewards in the WoW grind. What type of rewards are there ?
     
  16. Goron

    Goron Guest

    See this is where I disagree, and ultimately where I lose enjoyment in WoW...
    As HaHa asked... what rewards do you get in WoW?

    In UO I get loot. in WoW I get... ... ...?

    I take pleasure in knowing that when I die, I lose my stuff, but when I kill, someone else loses their stuff and I get it. WoW has no such situation. When I kill you in WoW, you wait 15 seconds then respawn with all your gear and NO loss whatsoever. And I gain, what, honor? Big deal.
     
  17. Hera - Siege

    Hera - Siege Lore Master
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    Never said there wasn't a grind in UO, it is less apparent, which is nice, but housing/crafting/etc make UO a make greater game. There isn't another Major MMOG out there like UO when it comes to crafting. DAoC - Buy mats, WoW - Buy Mats, UO - Gather Mats. For the bigger stuff you're forced to buy from someone who PvM's, but in general with UO a crafter can make a decent living without ever using the peerless ingredients/etc. Plus you don't have the spend time character leveling to then level your trade skill. Epic Fail on WoW's part in my opinion on that one.

    And yes, there are plenty of the same ol' templates in UO, but you have the CHOICE to not be the template or experiment if you want, that's what's nice.

    And I don't know about instantly fixing bugs, I recall a lot of issues with Vanish that weren't resolved for some time, also issues with Hunter's pets still 'following' on a stealthed player/etc. And let's not even start in on the complete gimping of the dagger rogue with resilience, whee, I can be mutilate or that's about it. Swords Rogue FTW! [Although the new Subtlety talents look pretty nice for Dagger Rogues].

    Also, don't forget there's quite a bit difference between having the resources of what 9M(?) players, versus how many for UO? 200k? Can hire a lot more programmers/etc with the revenue from an additional 8.8M monthly subscriptions. Wow is also $15/$13? While UO is $13/10. That's quite a bit of additional revenue just in subscription fee differential.

    Finally, additional content in wow is 'here's your new shiny, now get to rolling hamster!' I agree with Cheapy(Did he say it?), that the time invested in WoW is much more than UO for what you need to get to be competitive. Sorry, but I don't have time to invest 5+ hours a day for months raiding to maybe get that 3% drop I need to move on to the next raid. That's just ridiculous.

    I thoroughly enjoyed WoW for the 2 years I played it, but in the end all it really is just a grind to the next grind. UO is outdated, poorly supported [especially Siege], but as far as gameplay choices, it's still the best in my opinion... Does it make it worth playing? That's for the player to decide. I just wish some other MMOG would pick up the ball that EA dropped and give us a skill-based game that was decent. Champions Online looks to level based, but no-class, which is hopefully, it's a superhero format, but it looks promising for character freedom. [and Darkfall online, if it ever gets released]
     
  18. Revvo

    Revvo Slightly Crazed
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    Just out of curiosity what realm were you on and what were your characters names?
     
  19. Hera - Siege

    Hera - Siege Lore Master
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    Kijan was my rogue on The Underbog

    Darthblood, Shetok, Purebred were my Pally, Hunter, & Druid on Quel'dorei.
     
  20. I would like to be a lawyer, brain surgeon, ceo of a bank in 2 to 3 months, even weeks, but nope...that dream ended when reality set in.

    RoT is fine, now or how it used to be...need help being the "best" now that you've played WoW and abandoned Siege? cry me a river.
    Isn't Siege about, Newbies who build their chars making the rich (already skilled out chars) wealthy....until they become wise to what the "rich" do, be it character skill, or skill in timing or macros? If you already have these skills, then suck it up and take your lashings....for playing WoW.

    :sleep2:
     
  21. Alizaren

    Alizaren Guest


    Ummm...the blessed bacon might have been a clue.
     
  22. Revvo

    Revvo Slightly Crazed
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    I would say looking at your rogues gear and the other chars levels you have seen very little of the end game to really decide you don't like it :)

    Seems to be a lot of old U.O players who come back from WoW saying they are tired of it have never really seen the endgame content, most who get into the endgame either through arena (Bg's are not pvp :))or raiding never come back.
     
  23. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
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    they already had the permanent fix that works but took it out.

    Remember the blackrock areas? 2-3 dangerous areas that you could train 3-5x times faster. Nice thing was that on seige they were dangerous as the pks contantly roamed them.

    so how about bringing the blackrock areas back permanently!

    Lorddog
     
  24. Goron

    Goron Guest

    yup, because no one wants to waste hours and hours of their life doing pointless raids on the hope they will get some stupid item...
    lol, BGs are just as 'pvp' as arenas... 'hey guys, lets go fight with NOTHING at risk in an enclosed space! horray!'
     
  25. Revvo

    Revvo Slightly Crazed
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    "Wonders how many thousands of hours people have spent doing Doom or pvming"

    Kind of like a duel? But hey at least they hold sanctioned events where you can win thousands of $'s if your good. Hell at least you can have some quantative proof of how good you are at pvp through rankings unlike the endless bsing you get from U.O players :)

    Though i do find the comparison between Luna and a BG rather amusing, a place where terrible pvpers come together and swarm at one another mindlessly wearing bad gear hoping if they do it enough they will "earn" some better gear.

    I don't think you thought those arguments through, shocking huh? :)
     
  26. Goron

    Goron Guest

    lol- I have "pvm'd" for probably less hours than fingers on one hand in the last 3 months.


    Well, I don't really grind, so don't really see what your first argument was- and as for uo pvp (luna), for me its about the fun, not the recognition. Obviously if you need someone to pat your back and tell you 'you done good' then I guess wow is for you, huh?
     
  27. Lord_Puffy

    Lord_Puffy Crazed Zealot
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    I enjoyed wow, Once I get my new video card here soon I will give it another shot if I dont like warhammer.
     
  28. Revvo

    Revvo Slightly Crazed
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    At least with WoW there are people around to do the back patting, but seriously people running end game content are usually clever enough to self assess their own performance and there are plenty of addons that record every single piece of information for a raid so you can look at the data to help improve your game (There's no hiding for bad players). It's like gaming for grownups :)
     
  29. Goron

    Goron Guest

    It's like gaming for grownups :)[/QUOTE]

    lol, now I see why you post on a UO forum even tho you don't play; you've never been to the WoW forums!
    Holy smokes, that is the most immature group of kiddies I've ever seen in a game... even worse than CS back in its hayday.


    Now, don't get me wrong- I thought WoW was pretty fun and engaging. I just do not take pleasure in the pvp. There is little to gain and nothing to lose. Not my style. So I will stick with UO.