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Why I'm opposed to town-shrine decorations

Discussion in 'UO Catskills' started by Farsight, Sep 16, 2010.

  1. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    I'll keep this brief:

    Remember, back in February, Pike posted this story: Community Round Trip

    Now it's September, and the town of LICH now looks like this:
    [​IMG]

    ... all of their buildings went away less than half a year after their inception! (Note to Kasaven and Mesanna, this isn't the only town-shrine whose town actually fell shortly after the creation of the shrine)

    My proposal:
    Keep the shrine, but rename it/redecorate it in honor of the new owner of the house next to it, a player who HAS proven himself over years of true dedication to Catskills rather than a few weeks of "thee" "thou" and "I'm an undead, I have to PK you!"

    And it kind of gives him the ultimate rare. But that's beside the point.
     
  2. Zuckuss

    Zuckuss Order | Chaos
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    Wow, that one is too much. I thought towns were getting signs, not shrines.
     
  3. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Zuckuss, all RP towns were getting more than just signs. Just look at the Red Skull Bay where huge docks were built.

    I don't want to criticize Mesanna's dedication and activity. I think it is great that finally, after years of desolation, a lot is done for the RP community (even more than I would have expected in my wildest dreams). However, Farsight has a point there. Not that an unused shrine would bother me much. But many guilds come and go. There are only few guilds (not all of them RP guilds) who have been around for a long time, and placing a "blessed structure" for those seems appropriate, as you can be quite certain that they will be part of UO for years to come.

    Hopefully new guilds will appear and come to live with an increasing number of UO subscriptions in the future. (I have high hopes for that.) The problem is that you never know whether a guild will stay or vanish again after a few weeks. Giving shrines and banners to all who have a player town, no matter how old it is, seems only fair. However, this would involve regular clean-up jobs too.
     
  4. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    I don't know how its handled on Catskills, but townships on Chesapeake meet twice a month with a representative from the crown (rp'ed by one of our EMs). At these meetings we have the ability to petition for the removal of the banners for towns that have gone inactive and/or have had their houses fallen (one prime example is the township of Al Ellisande). The EM will then place a book on the township banner informing the town that they need to attend the next township meeting or contact the EM by a certain date. If neither of these happens, the EMs or Mesanna demolish the banner.
     
  5. Podolak

    Podolak Crazed Zealot
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    It is very sad that LICH is inactive right now. LICH's GM, Leston, is in the services and gets called away for 6+ months at a time. Unfortunately he has not garnered the right guild mates to keep the LICH theme alive while he is away. When he returns he will most likely re-instate the LICH name and hopefully get a better following.

    However, Farsight's suggestion is not a bad one at all. Perhaps something like this can be done. If LICH returns they can try and fight for it again or come to an agreement with the new party for shared alter usage and joint sacrifices. I mean who doesn't like joining in on a nice virgin sacrifice followed by a tasty pig roast.
     
  6. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    That's actually a very good idea. I'm surprised that I hadn't thought of that before!

    I actually very much like LICH, though our interaction was limited, and look forward to their return should Leston find time to return to the game. But since they no longer have a town...

    I'll see about getting in touch with Kasaven to see if this is do-able.
     
  7. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    That's Hawt.
     
  8. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    That's part of why the periodic meetings are a good idea.

    At least then, the people who know that there are exceptions could point them out. (i.e. The head of one of the other cities got sick and has yet to return to game full time to my knowledge.)

    Of course, that doesn't change the fact that the shrines were set for a town, and not an individual... and the rest of the town are all missing in action as well.
     
  9. Slickjack

    Slickjack Rares Fest Host | Cats Nov 2010
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    Well, I hadn't really wanted to reveal this until later, but since ya brought it up...

    I own the house next door, and I'm trying to find the owner of the empty house plots to the west as well.

    This will be the new Rares Festival site and the LICH shrine will, hopefully, be turned into a teleporter pad which will link New Haven and Luna to our Festival so any visitors from other shards can easily find their way to the fest.

    I spoke with Kasaven about the LICH shrine already, and he assured me that the qualifications for town shrines had definitely changed since they got their shrine and it was much harder to get them b/c of guilds leaving like they did.

    Mesanna, obviously, puts a lot of hours in (her free time) designing these shrines and also for other events that are SOLELY for player benefit. It's a shame, then, that he told me that the LICH shrine will eventually be taken down.

    My suggestion is, as stated above, to simply convert this shrine and make it functional for the GAME WIDE event that we will be hosting on Catskills. With only minor changes, it can be made into a viable structure again. I certainly don't need a shrine/building myself, as flattering as it is, as my guild is working on our town shrine for our city, Dark Water, which has been in place since '98, but we still are constructing some of the buildings to serve some needed purposes for our guild before we move forward....

    I hope this suggestion is met with approval from our community, as this will be a unique way for the hundreds of people that will be visiting our shard to easily find their way to the Festival site in an awesome "Mesanna" way....
     
  10. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    :thumbup1:

    Judging from the most recent rares fest on my home shard of Chesapeake, a teleporter that links the fest site with Luna is an excellent way to increase player knowledge of the event. I hope you are able to find the owner of the other house!
     
  11. Slickjack

    Slickjack Rares Fest Host | Cats Nov 2010
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    To my knowledge, the "gate" to each town shrine that was proposed to go outside the south gate of Luna never really happened.

    This idea is quite different. This is a one-off idea to help with the influx of all the people that will be here since this is a game-wide event.
     
  12. Aedon Durreah

    Aedon Durreah Village of Aegis
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    I know for a fact that many of the former members of Lich are now playing on Atlantic.

    I would love to see some way to preserve some of what Lich was. Leston is not a new comer to RP, but one of the old guard. His service keeps him from the game a lot, and as many of know, it is really hard to find good help these days.

    Who is holding the house next to the shrine now? Is it possible to just name it the Alter of the Guardian? He is at least a known for to many of the "good" RP guilds, and Leston and Lich were in service to him.
     
  13. Slickjack

    Slickjack Rares Fest Host | Cats Nov 2010
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    I wrote the longest post in this thread STRICTLY about owning the house next to the shrine and the idea that I had for the now unused shrine..... did you miss it or did the length of the post make it unreadable?
     
  14. Podolak

    Podolak Crazed Zealot
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    Leston still own's the main LICH house which is just east of the shrine. I think he keeps that account active even while he is away. The rest of the guild houses are gone I believe.

    However, re-purposing the shrine seems like a logical move.
     
  15. Pandora_CoD

    Pandora_CoD Certifiable
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    This should be brought up on the EM forums imo.
     
  16. Slickjack

    Slickjack Rares Fest Host | Cats Nov 2010
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    Since this was originally about EM made shrines, I could see your point Pandora, but now that everyone knows that the site of the Festival will be in the former LICH city, then this has become a shard issue, not strictly an EM issue.
     
  17. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Ummmmmmmmmmmmm.....hmmmmmmmmmmm....Well.....you know if the guy is serving our country could we at least show a little ingame respect ( which we should be grateful to him and many that has served or serving) until after he gets back or he can at least respond his views. If he comes back and signs in and its gone he may have a fit. He should not have to come back and hear "Hey sorry while you was doing your duty, a few of the shard decided what should be done with your shrine for their own purposes". The people in the arms forces deserve a little break here.
     
  18. Slickjack

    Slickjack Rares Fest Host | Cats Nov 2010
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    I have the utmost respect for our servicemen.

    Period.

    But as someone mentioned above, NO shrine in this game is meant for one person. He is leaving because of his service, but the entire LICH guild, including their leader, has LONG since been gone off Catskills.

    If it were merely about their GM being gone, then this would not be on the table.

    Again, NO ONE has seen any LICH in a very long time. By the way, it was over a MONTH ago that Kasaven and I had the discussion and it had already been decided at THAT point that the shrine was going to be torn down. That decision had nothing to do with our collective opinions or this thread.

    The town is gone. The qualifiers to have a town shrine are gone. They have no presence on our shard at all.

    This isn't about having "no respect" for our servicemen. This is about people following thru with the things that a guild must do to justify them having a town shrine and also KEEPING it.

    EDIT:
    The exact reason for me even knowing about the LICH shrine has now come to me: Kasaven was visiting our town in Fel, Dark Water, for the first time. I was asking his advice on what we needed to do to get a town shrine and giving him a tour. We have around 15 buildings in our town, 5 of which have been owned by our guild since Febuary 1998.

    Kasaven gave me some great advice on how to improve the flow of our town and to give some of the buildings purpose. After our discussion, he gated us to several other Catskills shrines to give me examples, the last being LICH. He showed me this shrine to prove that it takes a lot more than throwing up buildings and RPing for a few months. This is when he told me that the shrine would be coming down and to take the matter seriously, i.e. make sure my guild was dedicated to our town. Since we've been there, in some form or another since '98, I don't think we are going anywhere :)
     
  19. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Ok fine. Then dont let him at least have a chance to respond. Lets not wait just do and remove it. Do what you want with the shrine for your own purposes even though he still has a plot in the area where the rares festival will be held. All for the greater good. Im done with this topic.
     
  20. Slickjack

    Slickjack Rares Fest Host | Cats Nov 2010
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    I don't know if I could be more clear on this:

    Kasaven and Mesanna had already decided to take the shrine down MONTHS AGO. They simply haven't gotten around to it.

    And it's not "my purpose". I'm hosting this Rares Festival on Catskills to expose people to our shard. It is a hell of a lot of work. More work than alot of people will do, in-game, in their entire UO "careers".

    It's certainly not a selfish desire of mine to have some RP shrine dismantled. But since the "powers that be" have already decided the shrine's fate, I thought this would be a good alternative.

    Zosimus, do you even play this shard?

    Who are YOU in-game? If my memory serves me correctly, you are fairly new to Catskills, but as someone that is VERY much involved in just about every aspect of the shard, I can honestly say I do not know you.

    Would you mind telling me who you are?

    Your posts for our shard are so passionate, surely I know your name in-game, maybe I just don't have it linked to the stratics name "Zosimus".
     
  21. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I personally think all "Active" guilds (of more than 7 so that you cant just make a guild of your characters on one account) should have coolio shrines.
    They sure don't hurt anything and it's just another attraction to start a guild and play together which is a good thing.

    If the guild goes inactive the shrine should come down after some sort of grace period, like IDOCs. Ooohh wouldn't it be cool if the shrine went IDOC and people could take a little piece of history home? If the guild ever comes back to life hell yeah they can have their shrine/thingy back. No sweat. Why does everything have to be such a big deal with us?

    I don't know, seems to me we make a lot of mountains out of molehills on this shard.
    Much ado about nothing. Let people have their fun.
     
  22. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    I like mountains.

    Then again, I like molehills too.

    So here's the conversation that I've seen so far.
    I brought up an issue. Someone posted a good idea about how to deal with it. Someone else informed me that the issue has already been brought up and I pretty much have nothing to worry about.

    End of topic, I'm satisfied at least.
     
  23. Aedon Durreah

    Aedon Durreah Village of Aegis
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    I most likely missed it. I tend to skim over some things these days. *grins*
     
  24. Aedon Durreah

    Aedon Durreah Village of Aegis
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    Went back up and read you post. As much as I would love to see Lich active on Catskills again, those I speak to tell me they are happy on Atlantic. This being the case, I think your proposal of a transporter to the rares festival grounds would serve the community a lot more then having the shrine sit there with no one to tend to or sacrifice us flesh bags on.
     
  25. Zurhet Pebblethief

    Zurhet Pebblethief Journeyman
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    I find this funny, one of the first shines to go up was for a town that hadn't existed more than a couple months; and currently has one member not the GM that ever logs in. The buildings have started falling but they have a pretty shrine.

    I like the town meeting idea, it would give meaning to having a town decoration at least, and curtail what can be perceived as favoritism.
     
  26. Slickjack

    Slickjack Rares Fest Host | Cats Nov 2010
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    I understand the humor, but as your post clearly states, "one of the FIRST shrines to go up"......

    Kasaven was showing me this example because they obviously learned the hard lesson of giving the shrines out to easily.

    My guild, in some form or another, has been around for quite some time. We have hosted shard-wide events, operated an auction house on occasion, have the history in which to back our claim on our town back to '98 and we STILL don't have all the qualifications to get our shrine... So, I can attest that the "old way" of getting these shrines is certainly not still in effect.


    The only thing in this thread that is nagging at me is Zosimus apparent notion that me or anyone else that is for replacing the dormant shrine with something else is some way "unpatriotic" or whatever. I have several members of my family that are currently serving and many older relatives that are veterans. I have nothing but respect for these men and women and the valor they show serving our country.

    This was never about that and it makes me want to re-do my plans if ANYONE thinks that I'm stomping on the property by my suggestion.
     
  27. Zurhet Pebblethief

    Zurhet Pebblethief Journeyman
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    I've RP'd with and known Leston for a few years. I honestly don't think re-purposing the LICH shrine would upset him. Like most servicemen, Leston also knows he chose the life and what comes with it; and that when he is here there will always be those of us who will welcome him. Pixels I don't think replace the community.
     
  28. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Why is it a hard lesson?

    Why does anyone care/object to anyone having a shrine anywhere?

    Not sure why XX having a shrine in XX location affects anyone else. If the shrine/guild is inactive just change it, give it to someone else, or take it down.

    I've really got to be missing something on this issue.
     
  29. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    I sent you a PM Slickjack.
     
  30. Zurhet Pebblethief

    Zurhet Pebblethief Journeyman
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    Some towns that have existed for years still don't have one, others have never been finished; all the while some towns who were gifted with them first no longer exist but for empty plots or vacant buildings.
     
  31. Slickjack

    Slickjack Rares Fest Host | Cats Nov 2010
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    Here's my stance, like I need to type more in this thread :p

    I think Town Shrines should be limited to guilds/groups that actually:
    A. Have X number of buildings grouped together
    B. Have the buildings serve a purpose in their town
    C. Operated, consistently, as a guild/group on their shard

    Does this hurt anyone? Of course not.
    But having set rules to attain a town shrine certainly should mean you have a TOWN.
     
  32. Zurhet Pebblethief

    Zurhet Pebblethief Journeyman
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    I would have to alter B to state that one person does not own all the buildings.
     
  33. Schuyler Bain

    Schuyler Bain Lore Master
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    I was under the impression that a town needed to be sponsored by two(?) of their fellow towns. Am I confusing this with something else? While not the same as ongoing maintenance it is a step in the right direction.

    I agree that there should be criteria that must be met and maintained in some fashion in order to receive the special attention/blessing of the EM staff. Certainly there will be exceptions to the rules like a person serving their country, dealing with an illness in the family or suffering from one themselves. I do not think that anyone in this thread disagrees.

    It would appear that this particular circumstance is an exception to an exception. There appears to be evidence from multiple sources suggesting that LICH is no longer active and the remaining member that is presumably on active duty does not sound like the type to get bet-out-of-shape over the requested/proposed changes in this thread.

    All that said it would also appear that the EM team is already aware of this particular situation and I am confidant in their ability to come to a well informed and just decision.


    Good luck to all involved!
     
  34. Zurhet Pebblethief

    Zurhet Pebblethief Journeyman
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    This is to get the town teleporters linking your town banner to the teleporters in Luna.
     
  35. Zuckuss

    Zuckuss Order | Chaos
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    Wow!

    I wasn't trying to limit what the EM's or Dev's put in towns.

    I was just saying that that shrine thing looked to be a bit excessive, extravagant and flamboyant... in my opinion.

    I was agreeing with the original poster.

    PS- I have no problem with the docks at the pirate village, which was why I suggested it to the dev's over a year ago.
     
  36. Schuyler Bain

    Schuyler Bain Lore Master
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    Aye - that is what I am thinking of. For some reason I thought they were all tied together; the teleporters and the shrines, docks etc.

    Thank ye
     
  37. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I don't see why not.
     
  38. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    I think it would have a lot to do with keeping track of it all. And I'm not sure who does that really. If it is only Mesanna then it would eat up some amount of her time just keeping notes on who is or isn't active on which shards. Not to mention how she would track active or inactive guilds. Are they gone or have they organized under a different banner... or been absorbed into a larger guild?

    Mesanna does a fantastic job. She is one of the most visible members of her team. I'd really like to see her effort given to those who have done well to match her commitment. I'm not speaking of the op's pic. I know nothing of LICH or it's members save what I have read here. I'm speaking in favor of tighter controls on the front end to save effort in the long haul.
     
  39. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I don't know, it can't be that hard to write down the date, guild, and X/Y co-ordinates of the shrine, plaque or whatever. The active guilds are listed right on their own website, so that's not an issue either.
    If it means something to someone I don't understand why they shouldn't get one. They pay the same $$ for the game as everyone else don't they?
    If Lykor's found an old abandoned one and the guild isn't active why not let him "recreate" it for his own guild? If the other guild becomes active again it shouldn't be a problem to make them a new one.
    I guess this isn't popular opinion... but it's mine.
     
  40. Slickjack

    Slickjack Rares Fest Host | Cats Nov 2010
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    Hey, you said it before Flutter: we may not agree on a lot of things, but sometimes we are "spot on".

    My whole idea is based on the fact that the shrine was coming down either way, so what a shame to waste it when it is a very cool structure AND we happen to be hosting a GAME-WIDE event right next door?!?

    I did get a discourageing icq from a friend.

    On his usual IDOC circuit, the house located next to the 18x18, two west of the LICH shrine, apparently has had the same "For Sale" sign with no contact info for nearly 2 years!

    :( :( :(

    This bummed me out SO bad.

    Maybe another one will come up in the vicinity....