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Why Khaldun Shuld be in Trammel Permanently

Discussion in 'UHall' started by GalenKnighthawke, Oct 23, 2008.

  1. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    A few simple arguments.

    1. Khaldun as originally planned was to help balance out server loads a bit, by providing a "lure" to Felucca. That function is now served, far better, by double fame, double resources, power scrolls, and the like.

    2. There is not much reason to go there save for roleplaying or to have a distinctive place to hunt cool monsters. Both of these activities are typically associated with Trammel, and are indeed are typically scorned by Fellies.

    Honestly, to me it seems fairly obvious.

    -Galen's player
     
  2. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    There needs to be more differences between Fel and Trammel, not less.
     
  3. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    :yell: **** it is, kaldun is and will be i hope a felucca dungeon only. If you want to play in Kaldun you should come to felucca, where is the problem?

    That is UO how it was and with a bit understanding of both sides trammies and fellies, we are a good community :lick:.
     
  4. Its just the old Tram vs. Fel argument.

    PKs want Trammies in Fel so they'll have easy kills to slaughter and loot.

    Trammies want everything Fel has to offer so they can have it all without having to deal with a substantial threat that only PKs provide in this game.
     
  5. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    You are forgetting the third group. Smart UO players want Trammel and Fel to be as different as possible so that UO can appeal to a larger base of players which would help secure the game's existence and possibly increase the resources dedicated to the game by its owners since the income from it is higher than it would be by just catering to one playstyle.
     
  6. Eslake

    Eslake Guest

    The idea that Tram and Fel should be different is really rather pointless if the "difference" is unused.

    It has been years since Khaldun drew visitors to Felucca.
    The monsters are interesting for about 5 minutes, and anyone who wanted the journals has long since found/copied them.
    Vanq axes are ancient history, and puzzle boxes for maps... not these days.

    Arguing to keep it Fel-Only is equitable to arguing to have it removed all together, because nobody USES it in Felucca. The only time it sees a visitor is someone in a PvP chase related to one of the Champs, for which it may as well be an empty cave.
     
  7. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    *looks for where in my post I said power scrolls, double resources, or Factions should be in Trammel*

    -Galen's player
     
  8. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    You have no clue do you? Why this continuing Fel vs. Tram war continues is beyond me. Get over yourself please.

    You obviously don't know many Feluccans.
     
  9. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Considering that most dungeons in Trammel are rarely used these days, most towns in Trammel are empty and most spots in Ilsh are empty, I wouldn't say that this is a Fel only issue. But more of a UO itself issue. I would hope that the devs would think more about finding ways to change that emptiness than think about following your suggestion of removing these things altogether.
     
  10. well its in Tram for the event which makes me very happy!
     
  11. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Completely off topic but, while I agree 100% with your comment above, I get an itchy gross feeling every time I read your signature. Something about that guy just irks me. I am sure its just me but his vibe is very different from the one I always got from Old **** back in the day.
     
  12. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    You should note, that the chances of seeing pks in Khaldun are incredibly rare. I can't remember the last time I've seen anyone at all in Khaldun since AOS
     
  13. No.
    Us "trammies" would like it all here cause we be sick and tired of hearing the yackety yack smack yack of some putz after using hakz and cheats to "win" at pvp.

    PS......with insurance and blessed items, the "substantial threats" are merely annoyances.
    Hope this revelation doesnt burst your fel bubble.
     
  14. Remy_of_GOR

    Remy_of_GOR Guest

    i remember getting to trammel khaldun a couple years ago. it was empty :(
     
  15. Evilminion

    Evilminion Guest

    I didn't even know Khaldun existed, heh. It was introduced during the time I was out of the game, and since I never go to Fel...

    Well, let's say that I'm really looking forward to this event, now. :D New dungeon, at least to me!
     
  16. I see no reason at this time to have Khalun in Trammel at all unless it is going to be one of the ways to enter the new dungeon of UO:SA. At that point it would be a whole new ballgame.
     
  17. Paradox_

    Paradox_ Guest

    Risk Vs Reward

    You want to fight the monsters in Khal on production shards, you take the risk to go there.

    Just like power scrolls. You want them? Take the risk in getting them.

    Otherwise we might as make UO a totally PvE game.
     
  18. And it MIGHT burst your bubble to know I despise PKs and I play Tram almost exclusively.

    But your post proves that there are just as many aholes in Tram than Fel.
     
  19. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    A question that this thread brought up in my mind is:
    If a new Trammel-only dungeon was introduced, the shoe would be on the other foot, and it wouldn't it be unfair?

    Then, I thought that the question would be too antagonistic, and considered not posting it.

    Then, I remembered Ilshenar/Malas/Tokuno, and much as I wouldn't mind a PvP-free peek into Khaldun (indeed, offered by the upcoming event), we already got a ton more stuff in Trammel ruleset, than Felucca does.
     
  20. Eslake

    Eslake Guest

    If it is Risk vs Reward, I ask you a very simple question...

    What is the "Reward" side of it?

    The only reason to go to Khaldun is that there are a few creatures there with unique appearances. There is no special loot. No special challenges. No special quests, or objectives.
    The only reason anyone has to Go to Khaldun is to see the inhabitants, which is unique only the First time you go, and interesting for a mere few minutes.
     
  21. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    No. Some of us do RP and PvM in Fel, and our unique content isn't there for Tram to cherry-pick for itself. How much Tram facet content is there which Fel will never see?

    Just use your legs to travel to the Fel Khaldun, and you can hunt there to your hearts content when the event's over.

    Wenchy
     
  22. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    That being the case, there is no reason to make it available in Trammel. Anyone wanting to see Khaldun one time and then be done with it as you say can do so in Fel. Toss on some cheapo armor and weapons, insure them even and check it out.

    That's a win win for everyone. Trammel players can experience a dungeon they want to experience only once since there is no reason to go to it after you see it the first time and Fel players have something unique to their facet. Considering how much Trammel ruleset only content there is, having one dungeon that is Fel only is only fair. Works for me.
     
  23. Beefybone

    Beefybone Visitor

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    To: The Felucca lobby
    From: The Trammies
    Re: Risk versus reward

    Keeping Khaldun in Felucca just means nobody will ever go to Khaldun. We're not coming over there to be swept away in awe by your magical land of PVP goodness and player justice.

    Ever.

    Seriously.

    It's been almost nine years. You can give it up. We're really not coming.
     
  24. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Thats cool. I don't think anyone cares that nobody is coming and I don't see anyone trying to lure people there, either, lol. But again, no one, not even pks go to Khaldun anymore. The loot is no good and you can't recall, have to run there. Only point to go there is to see the unique monsters and the seldom explored dungeon.

    Some people just have no idea how incredibly empty a lot of T2A areas are in fel, you can go to some places like Khaldun, hunt for hours on end and not even see a single person. Granted it might depend on your shard, but still. Guess the only reason to go there will be this new event. You people will have it in tram this event, anyways, so why all the fussy people? lmao.
     
  25. Norrar

    Norrar Lore Master
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    Khaldun=Fel= Going to a dungeon and maybe...actually having to have some risk in a place other than fel gates or champs.

    Ive gone to a fel khaldun and had fun with my friends. Just pray no reds come by if you dont want pvp.
     
  26. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    I may be wrong but I would imagine that most Fel players don't want people like you there. I rarely see any Fel players asking for people like you to come to their facet more often. And by rarely I mean never.
     
  27. Khaldun should have been a FEL only place , it also should have been fixed up and used as a way to attract players there , dare I say with AOS , that all died or whenever all the items gained silly properties beyond Vang / Silver / Invul , ect ?

    It has been stated ( forgets who said it on the Dev team ) , they want UO to go back to the UO feel , Khaldun is a great place to start...
     
  28. Lord Patapon

    Lord Patapon Guest

    That's a No Way from me.
    Keep the damn thing in Fell, we already have a lot of contents on Trammel; AND I really don't see the point about whining about the risk of PKs coming in, as no one ever gets in here anymore.

    I like that dungeon, by the way. DevTeam should really spend some time working on the already existing dungeons, as many of them are pretty much useless now; sad, cause Khaldun looks great.
     
  29. Lady Aalia

    Lady Aalia Atlantic's Finest
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    T2A Fell????
    I play Atlantic , the busiest shard , and about 2 days ago i spent a day or 2 allmost enriely in T2A TRAM updating runes....
    And besideds 2 smiths in Del i didnt see anyone

    Even Del Bull pit , that used to be cramped with people fighting over killing or taming bulls, not a soul.

    The Ophidians, noone there but Ophidians...
    Terra Keep , well at least those Monsters keep themself busy with killing each other...

    It was really depressing , oh and while i am at it...

    T2A could REALLY use some wandering Healers !! pretty please :)
     
  30. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    You are right there. Too much time is spent on adding new things to the game instead of fixing the existing stuff. The dev team is unable to really fix anything so they just toss in more and more things that just aren't right. Skills in this game still have major balance issues but instead of focusing on fixing that, they keep adding more and more skills. Most of the dungeons in Tram and Fel are usually empty of players and they keep adding more instead of working on the existing ones. Most of the towns in the game are empty of players and they are adding more towns to the game instead of working on the existing ones.

    That mindset is understandable though. Its common in the business world to use 'new' things to distract people from existing problems. They lack the development skills to fix anything so they just toss out new stuff and hope that most of the paying customers fall for it. And, in UO at least, it works. Many players are focusing on things like the new expansion which includes even more new skills and more land to explore. And they seem to be forgetting the fact that the existing skills aren't as good as they should be and that the lands that are already in game aren't being used to their full potential.

    As long as the people that run the game have ready access to customers that so easily distracted they will never have to put much effort into fixing the things they add.
     
  31. WWGRD?

    WWGRD? Adventurer
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    Of course it's UNUSED! It's been BROKEN since AoS. Even if they left it in Trammel, Trammies won't use it either. FFS we've been asking them to fix it forever. Puzzle chests, a huge draw to Khal, have been broken since AoS. Instanced corpses ruined the Zealots, a Khaldun unique monster, you kill them and have to wait for instances to go away to loot a monster you just solo'd. It's not empty because no one wanted to go there, it's empty because the Dev team is too lazy to fix it.
     
  32. Interesting arguments here...

    Someone from Trammel asks to make Khaldun permenant on the Trammel side, or more healers near the dungen and the so called Fellucans say...

    Against keeping Khaldun permenantly in Trammel:
    Against putting healers near Khaldun entrance:
    So, what I am reading is Felucca players are against helping out Trammel players in anyway. Just remember that the next time you ask for:
    remove red kill counts
    remove murder timer
    remove red status (this was already done once)
    remove stat loss for murders... heh
    allow reds access to Trammel...
    get rid of Trammel all together...
    get rid of insurance and blessed items...
    allow thieves to steal in Trammel...
    putting Order - Chaos wars abck into Trammel...
    get rid of guard zones...
    keep tamers out of Felucca...
    ...and the list is much longer than this.

    So, the next time you ask for something for your red PK, thief, or blue killer, just remember...
     
  33. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    oh i will remember because i never asked for any of those things that u mentioned, ok to the following points i am strongly against speaking as a feluccian:
    remove red kill counts
    remove murder timer
    remove red status (this was already done once)
    allow reds access to Trammel...

    i didnt have a red when this was changed so it didnt affect me:
    remove stat loss for murders...

    these should have never come to be in the first place:
    get rid of Trammel all together...
    get rid of insurance and blessed items...

    these points i do agree with:
    allow thieves to steal in Trammel...
    putting Order - Chaos wars back into Trammel...
    get rid of guard zones...

    and this is just dumb:
    keep tamers out of Felucca...
     
  34. Sorry... you can't have those because
    See how easy that was?

    ooo... what is the saying? "Stay out of Trammel if you don't like Trammel."

    Seriously though, the Op asked for an extension of the game that will exist because of the current special events... i.e., make Khaldun permanent in Trammel. Felucca players responded by saying, "NO! It's ours and you can't have it!" but at the same time ask for greater access to Trammel. See the contradiction?
     
  35. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    yes i do, however i feel fel takes priority of tram because it existed first, in my opinion if you're not willing to pvp, dont play :)
     
  36. Well, not quite. Felucca did NOT exist first... there was only one facet... it wasn't Fellucca nor Trammel. Well, since it is only your opinion... and since some 90% of players play in Trammel, you are out voted! :gun:

    heh
     
  37. As one of the players that primarily plays in Tram, I vote to leave it exactly where it is.

    Fel only has a very small number of things that are unique to it. I say leave them the hell alone. Tram gets everything else.
     
  38. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Power scrolls, double resources, double fame, the fun aspects of PvP, and Factions aren't enough of a lure?

    -Galen's player
     
  39. My first fel adventure was on LS just before pub 16 ( RIP : :bowdown: ) , me and 3 friends were there , checking things out , all of a sudden 3 reds (one was named colunm others I forget)come chasing after us , We and our pets died so fast , but that didnt bother me because the reds took us outside , rezed us , and talked to us for about 30 minutes , told us to go have fun and be safe ( didn't loot anything, btw), we went back in , after another hour passed and we were ready to leave another group of reds came in and started to attack us , all of sudden the first group comes in a wipes the second group out like they were fresh out of character creation.

    All in all it was a great night , one of the best..

    In my early days of UO Khaldun was made fun by the following players on LS:

    ( not sure if spelling is same)

    Ghost : A red thief
    Column : PK
    Poopy Diapers : PK
    Kinarah: PK
    Red Rover / Slim : Long lost player who made my UO days enjoyable
    The guild : HF : Heavens Fury
     
  40. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    This is quite a pointless debate. There are scores of dungeons on both facets that are deserted. I am not sure what benefit one more deserted dungeon on either facet is supposed to bring except to satisfy your daily quota of u.hall bickering.
     
  41. Everything else that's in Tram that Fel doesn't have isn't enough for Tram?

    Besides, you can both mine and lumberjack in town in Fel, so there's no risk AT ALL to doing either, so you can cross that one off the list.
     
  42. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Umm....What?

    This is an awfully strange thread to say such a thing about...Granted I'm all in favor of you all policing the boards more, but to do so inconsistently is just....Weird. I'm just advancing an argument.

    *shrugs* Hey, your boards, your property, your rules.

    -Galen's player
     
  43. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    That is actually an arguable point.

    -Galen's player
     
  44. Yeah, I get lucky every once in a while.......:gun:
     
  45. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    I went there a few weeks ago on a terrible ninja template I have (so terrible that a few weeks later if is a bushido warrior). I was able to kill most of the things I ran into without much challenge since the monsters were hard by pre-AoS standards, but certainly not by post-AoS standards. Puzzle chests seemed to be working, but the spawn rate was low, and the loot terrible. I got a few journals for my personal library, and a minor amount of gold (I wasn't even overloaded by the time I got bored with the place).

    My suggestions:

    1. Give Khaldun a major buff. Make it draw people again either with a champ spawn or some major boss monsters. If this happens, leave it in Felucca only. If it is Felucca only, it should serve some purpose other than sad unused dungeon (which Felucca already has lots of).

    2. If unwilling to buff Khaldun, make a copy for Trammel. Keeping a sad mediocre dungeon like that Felucca only is sad, sort of like the Felucca player town I used to be part of. It will still be sad, but then I can hold events there without some people going "Eeek. Felucca. Bad. Eeek."

    I find it amusing how many players who play in Felucca and never visit Khaldun care so much about where Khaldun is. I understand the natural reaction to be possessive, but I think the better issue is "what is best for the game." Personally, I think keeping it in Felucca AFTER giving it a major buff is the best way to make it be a benefit to anyone.

    Neither Trammel or Felucca need more mediocre dungeons; though I always find them useful for running events. I still mourn the loss of my perfectly crafted Felucca dungeon rune set. I accepted this loss with the understanding that the Felucca dungeons and second age would actually be interesting.
     
  46. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    You read what isn't there, obviously. I am a Trammel player myself. I believe strongly that Fel and Trammel should be different as much as possible. That way, EA can attract a broader base of players than just one type (Fel or Trammel types). If you see that as meaning that I don't want anything added for Trammel players, no amount of discussion will change that. You just don't want to actually pay attention to what people say so why should they say anything to you?

    Blame the developers of the game for creating the whole 'lure' mentality. Not Fel players. Most Fel players that I know don't want more Trammel players there. They want Fel to be improved. There is a big difference there and if you can't see that difference I can't really help ya.

    Using your logic, flawed as it is, the Fel RULESET did in fact exist first. Not that that matters at all in this discussion. But, it did in fact exist first. How long has earth existed? Since it was created or since people named it 'earth'? Hmmm.

    Let those 90% have Trammel all they (we) want. That doesn't change the fact that cloning either facet onto the other is not good for the game. Having Trammel be unique attracts players looking for that type of play and having Fel be unique attracts players looking for that type of play. Win win. Well, except for the people like you that want it all and don't want anyone choosing a different style thant them to have anything.
     
  47. Beefybone

    Beefybone Visitor

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    You are wrong. I've spent most of the last decade listening to one idiotic ploy after another, on this and other boards, designed to get more Trammies into Felucca. Half of those idiotic ploys have come from the developers. Double fame, double karma, double resources, champ spawns, a unique dungeon, won't someone please come to Felucca? None of it has ever worked.
     
  48. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Actually, much more than half of those ploys come from the developers. Not from the players of Fel. That's the point. The developers aren't smart enough to design anything good so they take advantage of player greed (and yes, whining about needing vet rewards, new faction items and powerscrolls is greed) and just toss out new item after new item to keep people playing. Until we have a group of developers smart enough to code something fun in either trammel or fel, we will be stuck with the luring mentality that the DEVELOPERS are pushing.

    But, as has been said, the players of Fel don't want Trammel players there for the most part. They just want Fel improved. As Trammel players should want Trammel improved. Improve all those dead dungeons (in Trammel and Fel both) before adding new ones. Improve and balance the skills in game already before adding new ones. Balance the items currently in game before adding new ones.

    I can only speak for myself though. And my statement is this, please please go to Fel. Why? Because I play in Trammel and I don't want people like you here. So, please please go to Fel. They have powerscrolls for you. They have Khaldun for you. They have stat scrolls for you. So, go. Please.
     
  49. Sindris

    Sindris Guest

    Never really liked that dungeon anyway. Do Fellies (lol, fellie sounds even dumber than trammie) ever go there? Hell, I almost forgot it even existed.
     
  50. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Nope. T2A, aside from maybe one or two champ spawn points and some miners, is darn near deserted. I am willing to bet, you can spend a whole day in Khaldun and never even see another person. You might get really lucky and see another hunter, but that's a long shot :p