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Why no love for Bards and Mages?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Old Man of UO, Nov 18, 2011.

  1. Just going over the new loot in Shame, and it looks like bards and mages got left out of the new loot bags. Sure, there were a few tweaks to the bard masteries, which were long overdue, but no new instruments! Everything new seems to be targeted towards melee characters - UO Hack-N-Slash indeed!

    No musical instruments
    No spell books

    Spell books, well there are plenty of ways to get decent spell books for mages, necros, mystics, etc., although I think you could still do something special with these. But bards' instruments have been left in the dark ages for a long, long time.

    First of all, instruments should be equip-able and two handed. How can anyone play a flute, lute or even a tambourine while it's tucked away in your backpack? YOU CAN'T! Does it make sense that you can hold a two-handed-sword and still play a drum in the middle of battle? NO! And if you un-equip your instrument, you stop playing, the music stops and the effects stop.

    Secondly, we need a few new properties on instruments, with the same disadvantages as the new Shame loot has. The new bonuses should include:

    • Slayers
    • Mana/Stamina/Health Regen; an aura effect that works on friendly targets
    • Dex/Int/Str Bonus spells; an aura effect that works on friendly targets
    • Vapiric Leech for either Mana/Stamina/Heath; random number leech/tick on target (wouldn't that be fun in PvP for bards?)
    • Exceptional + and ++ (or called something appropriate); + give 10% chance to succeed and 10% SDI bonus, ++ gives 20% chance to succeed and 20% SDI bonus
    • Random chance for a bard mastery spell; the spell has a 10% lower effect than a normal bard mastery, but combines with the exceptional bonus
    • Balanced property
    • Paralyze; chance to succeed based on all combined and targets resist
    I'm sure other people can come up with better modifiers for instruments, but the idea is to provide more classes something in the loot drops. Maybe even new tools for crafters, special mortar and pestles for alchemists, and so on.

    But, please give us Bards some love! :heart:
     
  2. pgib

    pgib Guest

    Last thing tamers got was the greater dragon in 2008: while i'm absolutely in for any improvement to any skill/playstyle, i think bards can wait a little more.
     
  3. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    Special Spell Books as Loot LoL

    :sad2:They have never come as normal loot why do you think they would come now?

    as for instraments? what do you want slayer properties on them? That is the only way they drop now? or are you seriously considerinf more properties on instaments:sad3: - WOW?
     
  4. Re: Special Spell Books as Loot LoL

    Yes - more properties on instraments... err, I mean instruments. What's wrong with that? Look at all the properties that drop on weapons now. I think that requiring instruments to be equipped to use would keep them from being too powerful.

    Where have you been? Instruments have ALWAYS come as normal loot.
     
  5. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    Re: Special Spell Books as Loot LoL

    I think weins meant spellbooks
     
  6. pgib

    pgib Guest

    Well, for spellbooks it could be a nice addition to see them dropped by some mob (like evil mages for example). I still have some book from the War of Shadows, nice little things.

    I don't know about equipping musical instruments. It makes sense of course but this could be a "nerfix", especially for bard-warriors.
     
  7. Ned888

    Ned888 Seasoned Veteran

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    I agree. I'd love to see Musical Instruments become full weapons. Right now they are more like reagents, but to make them a repairable magical item that can either be held in the hand or placed in the cloak slot (like a quiver) for carrying would be awesome.

    • In hand you could get the full benefits of all bonuses and use the instrument to perform. Maybe even parry with the weapon, though not attack physically.
    • In cloak slot you would not be able to play it, but you could still get the benefit of any properties that improve stats or resists. You would be able to fight with a weapon or cast spells in this case.
    I really do agree that musical instruments need some love; not the bardic skills themselves. Think of it as a swordsman with only a slayer sword with no other bonuses associated with it. That doesn't fly, so why should this?
     
  8. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    NO

    Musical Instruments are one of the few items that you do not have to equip to use.

    DO NOT DO THIS
     
  9. *POKES FRODO IN THE EYE*

    Why not? It makes logical sense, and I don't see the overall harm. Besides, you CAN use spellbooks without equipping them. Still, if I could get the other modifiers on instruments without having to equip them, I could live with that.
     
  10. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    Have to agree, though it makes sense to have the instrument in your hands it will just add the possibility of yet another item having all sorts of stats on it to compensate for the lack of a weapon in hand
     
  11. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    *SHIELDS GLASSES BLOCK AND RETURN DOUBLE DAMAGE BACK TO ATTACKER*
    Spellbook mods do not work unless they are equiped.
     
  12. Ned888

    Ned888 Seasoned Veteran

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    My friend, you must have either exceptionally long lips or fingers to play those intruments from your backpack. If every other item type requires you to equip it or have a hand free to use it (like potions) then I think it's reasonable to have the same requirement for musical instruments.

    It makes logical sense and would be a cool addition to the game. It would also limit the power of bards a bit, but make up for it by adding properties and resists that they do not benefit from now.

    No need to go nuts though, it's just an idea.
     
  13. Yah, I know that. But I was asking why you don't think we should have to equip instruments to play them.

    Are you using your feet?
     
  14. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
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    If you do this then eating and healing should be on the same publish.

    -I mean wrapping a bandaid around that nasty gash should take two hands. How could one possibly do it while holding a sword and shield? - I think it would only be reasonable to require at least one free hand for the use of band aids. certainly using a band aid requires more handling than a healing potion, it's only natural after all.

    -I mean you have to eat every day or you die. I mean, it only makes sense. they put food in this game for a reason. Oh, and no more chomping down on an apple whilst hacking on a liche either. No. one must have at least one hand free to eat an apple and two hands for a roasted pig. if you insist on eating during combat, you risk choking damage or even death.
     
  15. Ned888

    Ned888 Seasoned Veteran

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    I fully agree with the healing thing, but what do you eat in combat? I know there are the magic apples, but for the most part, isn't food a non-issue?

    I could see having to disarm your weapon to bandage, if they made the bandaging process a bit faster than it is now. This way the disarm/arm wouldn't be too detrimental; just another key stroke.

    As I stated above, I think that instruments should be 2-handed and some should be available for blocking purposes. I'd also like to see some additional instruments added, like the Flute, Pan Flute and Cymbals (especiallly good for discord).

    It's my opinion that these are the kind of additions to the game that make it more interesting and allow the player to have a sense of immersion and 'realness' (made up word, sorry). On top of that, these might not have to be 'instead of', but could be 'in addition to' the existing instruments. These could be legendary weapons or craftables.

    In addition to this, I'd also like to see 'Bard Weapons'. No idea yet what the powers would be, but it would take a certain level of Musicianship to use the weapons and they would be things like:

    • Singing Sword - Does extra energy damage (sonic)
    • Dancing Sword - A pet that looks like a sword and you control with Musicianship.
    • Singers Bow - Usable as a musical instrument and does 100% energy damage (sonic).
    • Fire Flute - Use as a musical instrument, acts as a Fire Horn as well but uses Mana or Stamina for power.

    Though I don't have a super-bard all built up as of yet, they have been one of my favorite character types since the early days of playing D&D. I'd love to see them and all the other characters get some very specialized equipment that is exclusively for use with certain skill sets.

    • Ranger Weapons could require a certain level of Tracking and Camping.
    • Bard Weapons require Musicianship and One other Bard Skill.
    • Mage Weapons require Magery and Eval Intelligence.
    • Paladin Weapons require Chivalry and Focus.
    Stuff like that! ;)
     
  16. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    *a faint cheer is heard... emanating from evesdropping chefs*
     
  17. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Um, you can live for quite a while without food (if you stay hydrated), though it won't be pleasant.

    Requiring food, while realistic, would just get highly annoying. Making food more valuable, like fish pies, sadly hasn't seemed to catch on with the average player...
     
  18. I know you are being a bit sarcastic here, but look at it from another point of view. WHY do we have to equip swords to use them? WHY NOT just have them in our pack to auto-use like instruments for Bards? WHY do we have to equip armor, and not just stored in our backpack?

    Anyway, the idea here is less about having to equip instruments to use them than it is to get new modifications for them in the new drop system.
     
  19. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    it kinda makes sense that a bard SHOULD have a music instrument equipped.

    it could be like a fishing pole and have properties..
     
  20. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
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    Well no, I don't think I am being sarcastic. I am taking your very reasonable observations and applying them to other aspects of the game.

    I actually would like to see consumption of food become a requirement. If not for long life then for optimum skill performance. Consuming food should follow the same rules as consuming potions as well.

    I also happen to think it is silly that every healer/vet has an auto-bandaid dispenser.

    Mages don't have to equip spellbooks, maybe they should?

    miners don't have to equip pick axes. Pick axes are all auto use devices!

    Speaking of miners, did you know that you can only mine ore while dismounted, while lumberjacks can be mounted but must have an axe equipped to chop wood?

    How is it that treasure hunters can dig up a treasure chest with a flimsy old map? Wouldn't equipping a shovel be more appropriate?

    Herding skill requires a crook, but herders don't have to equip one to herd.
     
  21. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Equip
    Spellbooks before you can cast a spell.
    Runebokks before you can use them
    Pots before you can use them
    Aids before you can use them
    Tap boxes before you can use them
    All crafting tools before you can use them

    All items from now on have to be equiped before you can use them.
    Equiping insterments is a nerf to bards

    Let me fix this for you.
    It kinda makes sense that a PvPers SHOULD have to equip everything before they can use them
    It kinda makes sense that a PvMers SHOULD have to equip everything before they can use them
    It kinda makes sense that a Crafters SHOULD have to equip everything before they can use them
    It kinda makes sense that a EVERYBODY SHOULD have to equip everything before they can use them

    Stupid idea.
     
  22. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    I had better hold that pen in my hand and a scroll in the other while having the one i'm copying in front of me somewhere that I can see it so I can inscribe a spell scroll....
     
  23. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
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    Actually, a scribe should have to equip a scribe tool to take advantage of that extra 10% spell damage increase.

    We could even make inscription tools come with spell channeling -1 or +10 meditation to make it even better. You know, like fishing poles.
     
  24. Ta_Mira

    Ta_Mira Guest

    I would like to point out that musical instruments have a limit to how many times they are used. Right now instruments are like crafting tools you don't equipment them but you must click to use or have a macro to do the same thing. They come with a certain number of charges and when they are used up they are gone. They are not repairable and can not be pof'ed. So who wants to see weapons with a certain number of uses like dp but when the charges are gone you lose that weapon?
     
  25. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    gotta love the sarcasm. :D

    Next mages will have the book equipped the scribe tool in the other hand and have to write the spell on the page before it is activated....
     
  26. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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  27. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    Eh?? No love for them? So, the master skill books aint notta...and the thanks giving event with turkeys are a pure bard event....

    What u want`? A mill everytime u play the tune?
     
  28. I personally do NOT want to be MADE to hold the instrument in hand to play it. Mages are not FORCED to hold a spell book, Nor the tamer is not FORCED to hold a whip to control his pets. Since there is not riding skill it seems that ANYONE and jump on a mount and fight at the same time also. Manythings in UO are not 100% realistic. I would like to see items like the FIRE HORN. But new damages and bonuses for using them.
     
  29. I was thinking about this.. Lets try to find out HOW the playing bards would like to be boosted? What type of instruments? I was thinking of some bells that make creatures flee area.. Maybe make a sound traps that is crafted by tinker/bards. Stun a area of creatures for a few seconds. Make those bad a$$ed turkeys that scream at you drop something needed to craft a bard type weapon. infuse it with the purple power crystals. Maybe have to collect gears for these traps from golems or or exodus creatures.
     
  30. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Spellbooks would be the ultimate. Maybe they will save them for a specific dungeon. Like Wind. *nod*
     
  31. Meh... like I said, I could go either way with equipable instruments, just thought it was a way to keep instrument mods from becoming too powerful. Well, not like the dexxer drops in Shame anyway.

    But, the Fire Horn is a good example of a usable instrument drop. We could also have:

    Frost Horn - 100% Cold damage
    Vile Horn - Chance to Poison Target
    Horn of Chaos - Random 100% Elemental damage

    Or, maybe these should be craftable.
     
  32. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    I agree.. a sword absolutely has to be in your hand cause thats the only way you can poke a hole in something with it.. A musical instrument has to be in your hand to play it. (well my guitar does maybe not the piano.. ) buit you have to use your hands either way.

    But I couldn't help notice my Bard/Mage can solo Shame easier than almost any other of my characters. So I frown on the Op's assumption that Bards or Mages got no love.

    I am wondering why 75 percent of all loot seems to be "Gargoyles Only".
     
  33. You must admit that the loot is biased towards melee characters, although you do get some nice mage items.
     
  34. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...


    Missed this one did you?

    [​IMG]