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Why Not Devs? Why not?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by RavenWinterHawk, Dec 2, 2008.

  1. Do we really need more items that allow us to accelerate character developement?

    Do we really need to raise skill cap?

    Do we really need to worry about what a player can become with stats and items?

    No
    No
    No

    Its my 10 year opinion that the game has lost purpose beyond the above.

    Please Devs take my ideas and the many many many others people generate and bring some exploration activity immersion back to the game. Yes EAI. Not the silly chained events we have. Theyre nice for about an hour. But they arent EAI's.

    Let me keep it simple.

    1. Institute stealing again. No. Like this. Generate items with tags of "A Black Market Item". This tag allows these items to be stolen. Generate 1000 different items found on land, on sea, in corpses, on npc's, rare drops etc.
    Now you add a dimension. Wandering exploration purpose.

    2. Institute random spawning monsters with random drops of 1000's items. Who cares, just items that you may or may not get. Unleash the minators all over Malas.

    3. Dump #2 into treasure chests and lock boxes (in dungeons)

    4. Now if you dont like the above, implement things on that line. I dont care what. But static spawns, events (though fun) that dont end, are well boring eventually.


    You have nothing dynamic in UO that incorporates exploring the lands as 1 or in groups. Why not? The key is exploration and wandering.

    Its painfully obvious.
     
  2. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Allow me to narrow your post down to the only good point.

    I will be extremely disappointed and upset if the skill cap per skill or per player is increased in the slightest.
     
  3. Lore Master

    Lore Master Guest

    I respectively disagree with you both on that i will be very pleased if the skill cap per character is raised and the majority of players i have chatted with in UO really hope there is a skill cap raise per character too.
     
  4. Splup

    Splup Guest

    I would be even more pissed if skill cap of spesific skill would raise above 120...
     
  5. Lore Master

    Lore Master Guest

    I agree with you on that one 120.0 should be the max on any one skill but i would like at least an additional 120.0 skill cap points per character so we can add at least one extra legendary skill.
     
  6. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    They haven't said they're going to raise the skill cap. They've admitted to talking about it, but that's all.

    As to the rest, while some of your ideas clearly have some merit, I don't see how any of those help achieve an immersion experience.

    Immersion first starts from the willingness to be immersed, and that's a problem with us, not with the team. Granted they could help, but I suspect strongly that the things that'll immerse me aren't the same as the things that'll immerse you.

    Let's take your systems as proposed. At their worst, they are somewhat easily scripted, with enterprising players figuring out that, say, lizardmen have a good ratio of "easy to kill" versus "likely to have one of those drops of 1000s of items." Script-kill lizardmen and cross your fingers. Definitely not immersion.

    I'd have no objection to random Minotaur spawns all over Malas but.....I don't see how that'll add to immersion.

    -Galen's player
     
  7. Overland spawns were once easy to find ... albeit in specified areas, but one could still be up on Candelabra Point and have an orc camp spawn on top of you. Now ... pffft.

    Minotaurs in Malas? I'd frikkin' love it! Drakes and an occasional Dragon (not Greater) wandering the Hedge Maze area or something. A Lich pops up outside the S Delucia gate where my miner just happens to be. Oh yeah ... nice random spawns of stuff would be awesome!
     
  8. HeathBar

    HeathBar Guest

    I fail to see how having new "rares" tagged with "A Black Market Item" would help make the game better or help revitalize stealing in any way. They had something like this, it called Cursed artifacts and no one uses them for a good reason.

    The only thing I agree with in your post is that the skill cap shouldn't be raised in way.
     
  9. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    720 skill points is more than enough to build a template. The cap per character should not go up. The cap of 120 per skill should definately not go up.
     
  10. peanutbutter

    peanutbutter Guest

    Do we really need more items that allow us to accelerate character developement?

    A: yes, we do. many skills take entirely too long and cost too much to gain. there aren't many new players and the old ones who are duplicating characters on other shards are tired of having to work the same mundane skills over and over again.
    also, after playing (and testing) games from UO to tabularasa, warhammer to city of heroes, archlord to DAoC, conan to... well, you get the point - i can confidently say that the vast majority of learning comes AFTER you reach deadly level. for UO, that would be slightly higher than what an advanced character token gives you.
    games that make you grind through lower levels killing bunnies are only good when there are MASSIVE numbers of new players coming in. UO has an established player base of veterans sprinkled lightly with fish here and there. they need to work for the vets and give us ways to build characters THAT WE ALREADY KNOW HOW TO PLAY much faster... the fish will get the same benefit, but they will lose nothing as far as knowledge goes, because they will have the vets to teach them.

    Do we really need to raise skill cap?
    NO. we do not. it is a silly idea. perhaps there should be a choice... somethin like: if you have 6 to 7 skills, you get a skill cap boost (like max 730). the skill cap boost will do more to help people who desire 8 skills on their bar than it will to help anybody else. ORRR... even better. give the skill cap boost ONLY to people who have 2 to 3 crafter skills on their bar... that is reasonable.

    Do we really need to worry about what a player can become with stats and items?
    this question doesn't make sense. please explain. this is an item-based game. i like it that way. my only complaint is that the items that are dropping off of monsters and especally event loot is CRUSHING the crafter market. that is NOT right.
     
  11. peanutbutter

    peanutbutter Guest

    my god. you must be kidding. like archers need another skill... like necromages need another skill...

    are you kidding?
     
  12. To all...
    Good thoughts

    Immersion is like a huge pool and some side pools. It has to be enough for all players to find entry points.

    May ideas are quick flicks.
    Stealing is addressed. Do or not. I dont care. But it is one thing to do.
    Walk the land now and you find diddle.

    For instance I have a crimson. How many do I want. Well one. I can buy any item out there. I dont want to buy what I need. Hell... Im still sporting a 60 -70 suit and a slayer weapon for PvP. What more do you need. I want to find things I cant imagine I need. Think about it.

    (I dont want to know everything the game has to offer and its formulas and combos and all that) Now think about it.



    So having champ spawns that spew the same stuff. Im not interested. Others are. Great. Keep them and add some more.

    Random bands of minotaurs.

    And whoever wrote about scripters. You right. But I dont give an F about them. Why because they do what they do. Id much rather have more immersion and scripters abusing the new stuff then have what we have now.

    That is... EA has to deal with scripters by dealing with them, not by with holding developments to its player base because the new stuff can be scripted.

    Might as well shut it down if thats the mentality.
     
  13. Loqucious

    Loqucious Guest

    On the money.
     
  14. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Great! So lets never add anything new into the game that has a possibility of being scripted, OH WAIT... thats everthing.

    You can't stop adding content because you worry that it can be scripted. Thats silly.
     
  15. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Very few people actually want to explore, a problem with players rather than developers.

    A dull majority of players want everything laid out, spoilers, walk-throughs, runes right to the required locations, expected outcomes and pitfalls. That's why play-guide sites and applications like UO:Automap and UO:Treasure Hunter are so popular. A handful of people race about investigating something new, then post explicit details about it, and the rest follow like sheep.

    People either don't have the time or inclination to explore for themselves.. usually the same people who become quickly bored with the game and complain there's nothing new to do.
     
  16. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Do we really need more items that allow us to accelerate character developement?

    Do we really need to raise skill cap?

    Do we really need to worry about what a player can become with stats and items?


    1. No. I was talking to probably the last person at my work who actively plays WoW, and the level rate of the game has been sped up so fast its insane. Make the game less enjoyable IMO to do this.

    2. Absolutely not. Already the skill cap is meaningless with the use of artifacts and +skill items. What we need are more skills that refine various templates so that you can focus on a couple of things and be AMAZING at them, or "generalize" in several and still be good/useful. Arms Lore and Embueing are great examples of this. Melee combat needs some help in this area for those wanting a pure melee character and not a Bush/chiv/necro/pally/mage/archer (yes, I know, it exaggeration, but not by much)

    3. Yes. There still needs to be balance within stats and item mods, however the item mods need to be rebalanced within themselves so that the caps aren't so easy to hit and so that it takes a full set of 100% intensity and artifact level items to reach a given cap. For example, if a mod shows up on 6 armor pieces, you should need all 6 at near 100% or artifact intensities to reach the cap, you should not be able to reach the cap at 3 or 4 of the 6 items and have "dead mods" on the rest.
     
  17. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    You hit it right n the head, it is the players. Silver platter and all.

    They buy gold, they buy advance character tokens( nice move EA, ya boneheads)....it's all gimmie, gimmie, gimmie. There's no appreciation....hell, that's a lost value.

    Players of such caliber need a playstation and cheat codes, it's pretty much what they're made of....don't agree, too bad. I've been around long enough, online and in the real world to know what's what.

    UO has a disease beyond cure.

    later
     
  18. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    I'm in the not caring corner for skill cap raising. If they raise the skillcap I can make already powerful characters of mine more powerful. I don't see where it wouldn't be overbalanced. Maybe they are trying to do this for the new skills being added?

    If they did raise the cap they need to implement restrictions on skills.

    *hands out tissues*

    Label each skill as either primary or secondary. If you pick more than 2 primary skills it costs double points for the 3rd etc etc. There has to be something to stop people from taking a mage/tamer and giving it archery and bushido or something stupid like we see already on some of the gimped out crap characters people play.

    As for development....who cares? How many people really need to build their characters up still? Anyone care to think it's more than 10%? Oh wait! I have a tamer on Belhae I still have to GM...pffft. Skill gain is a non-issue people are completely blowing out of proportion.

    Random stuff would be nice. What would be nice is to get a system that can be changed every 2 or 3 months with new things. We have yet to see such a system added to the game yet we have been asking for it ever since we got paragons. Still waiting...
     
  19. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    Oh it strikes you as stupid too?.. It's raining items. And a completely messed mix of systems to get them.. Plus different rules for each. We've ended up having 3-4 artifacts doing the same thing and that's the tip of the ice-berg.

    If we thought AOS was "The Age Of Items" then what the Hell is this? The inevitable sequel?.......... I had reasons to stop playing, I eventually decided it's not even worth paying.. And now I'm slowly forming the opinion it's not worth returning either.

    :sad4:
     
  20. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I think it has something to do with level/questing bases advancement in other games, and even linear rpg. People want to like be on a path, that has a specific and clear end (like getting enough exp to level up, or getting the best sleeves for the level you are on) and ever since we got insurance it became important to item hunt, and look for that best pair of sleeves. Exploration just is time wasted falling behind others in the power race.

    I've always said it, item based games just kill the fun of adventuring. It's all just a grind, and if an activity doesn't GIVE you something, its not worth doing.

    That was the beauty of (a still very flawed) old school UO. Adventure, and fun and community were at the core of the experience, because items were impermanent, and thus unimportant.
     
  21. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    I think there are two factors here:

    First sometimes we play very passively, following a story instead of in truly "questing". Frustration is an element of puzzle-solving, but it does not make fun storytelling.

    Second, there's a strong sense of "productivity pressure" in games like this - every minute not spent harvesting is a little further you fall behind the curve.

    (yeah, there's a bit an echo here)
     
  22. I think the points of not wanting to explore are valid to an extent.

    I would argue people would explore if there was something to explore. Dont forget the game has been anemic for years around exploring.

    Its become read cheats, complete quest and repeat till you have so much stuff... I buy I cheaply and save my time.

    If UO wants to break its slump (well it has to do a lot of things) but 1 is creating exploration.

    And dont forget we have 7 freaking characture slots. A creative team should begin to look out of the box.

    1. 1 slot for a leveling characture.
    2-7 slots for standard charactures.

    The thing about the box is accuses of why it cant be done now crushes creativity.

    What Fel cant be a leveling land?

    Watch the arguements. Expand your horizons and thing beyond what you know.

    #1 arguement oh that will create bugs and imbalances.
    yeah if you do it shoddy.
     
  23. Well stated.
     
  24. I agree. Nice last paragraph.
    Something that can be addressed. I can just be stuff. Like boots of glowing that do nothing but make you glow for a while.
     

  25. Exactly. Good summary.
    I just want to interact, wander, and find adventure of silly sorts. Game stuff. UO is losing its sandbox make up. Why? most of the land is concrete now.
     
  26. The only problem is there is nothing to explore if you been playing years.
    And in some cases what there is to explore is pointless.

    I dont disagree with you because they do cater to the desire...argh I want it but dont want to work to hard for it.

    Dang give everything as gifts.
     
  27. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    if you are referring to the replicas coming out soon then yes they are necessary for the game, the dupers are making thousands of dollars daily selling them and this change will screw over their business + balance the advantage that people have from purchasing those duped items, its been an item based game since AOS which was what like 2003... its not going to change away from item based anymore, however if they ever did make an official pre aos or a pre renaissance shard i would definitely start playing it, they should know by now how many people want them because almost every free shard is pre aos
     
  28. I think thats a good change.

    The box everyone is stuck in is
    Pre AOS
    Item based.

    We have 5 lands. You can make them separate entities. It would take work. You can rise a new land with AOS rules. Tons of random exploration. There is so much that can be done...

    If we dont lock ourselves into thinking.

    Insurance is simple. Certain lands have it, certain lands dont. A player needs to learn.

    The funniest thing is people argue "how am I suppose to know what has what." Well thats the game. Experience becomes your leveling.

    How about that? We dont define ourselves as what the charatures have but what you learn as a player. Our experience and knowledge is our leveling.

    Adding in artificats that we all get is cool.
     
  29. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    In general, I'm okay with the 720 total skill cap and I definitely don't want to see any skill be able to go past 120.

    In a game with so many experienced players, I question the addition of items to accelerate skill gains. I assume that the developers are adding the new scrolls because they anticipate an influx of new and returning players who will be making new characters or training new skills.

    Instead of adding randomly available items to help these people with character development, though, I'd much rather see some time and thought put into fixing the skill-gain/guaranteed gain algorithms (especially for skills that only go to 100) and providing additional content that ALL players can use to gain skills as they play.

    I believe the developers have acknowledged at townhall meetings that there's no content for raising some skills (e.g., spellweaving and taming) to 120 through normal game play. You can only do it with daily gains. I'd like to see that issue addressed with additional content that anyone can take advantage of, rather than by introducing a randomly generated scroll that few will ever be able to get.
     

  30. The last paragraph I didnt know. That becomes a problem too when the might add a scroll for the skills you cant raise but then add scroll for every skill.

    The think with caps is..

    Raise skills
    Now raise monster skills
    Now raise monster hit points
    Now raise weapon damage
    Now raise monster damage
    Now add this
    Now add that

    Your net game over time is not better then pre AOS.

    Making the challenge to have lets say 800 skill points
    and 5 skills capped at 120 and 100 skill

    isnt realy different then the old days of 700 with 7 gm skills.

    We think it is. Its not. We waste time getting well to the next level to find its really the same.

    My opinion.

    So fix the gain algorithim and add in exploration. That would be good.
     
  31. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    Definately against adding more base skill points to a template/skill cap. Then I could create my sampire/tamer/dexer. Then the complaints would roll in =)

    Adding reasons to explore would be nice. Even for the vets who have 'seen it all'. With random spawns with decent-great loot would get people out n' about looking for these spawns. There's lots of places in UO I haven't been because there's no reason to go look other than to say 'ya i've been there'. Tokuno and ML both have unique creatures, but Tokuno has crap for loot, so why go there unless you're farming pets, and ML only has Peerless + some named monsters who you have to farm for hours to get anything worthwhile which isn't worth it. It's no fun spending hours on end to get something decent to use/sell. If I wanted to spend hours farming in order to do anything fun in the game (pvp, pvm etc) i'd go play a game with better graphics. The old UO was fun to play. You didn't have to worry about spending many hours/money to get decent gear in order to PvM/PvP. All you needed was gold to buy regs or a GM weapon and you were set.

    Change housing rules, I hate not being able to run onto someones steps and getting that dumb rubberband effect. That took out all the fun of killing someone in their house. You shouldn't be able to open the door unless it's a public house, but you SHOULD be able to run in and kill them if the door is open. Those were fun days in PvP.

    Try letting the players have player run towns with their own unique features.

    To be honest... Felucca has lost a lot of it's 'value' of fun. You used to be able to find action in more places then just Yew, Despise or T2A champ spawns. You could run up to N. Minoc and find reds, or go to Shame and find someone killing air elementals, or in Destard killing Shadow Wyrms or down in Deceit killing Lich Lords...that was part of the sense of adventure, because you knew that someone was likely there hunting... because there was actually good loot. The only places you really need to hunt are Peerless/T2A Champ spawns and sometimes Doom.
     
  32. Yes, we do. The addition of the new SoT's is most likely the Dev's answer to the the longtime call for skills like Taming, Poisoning, Discord (and the others), and Lockpicking to not take so freaking long to get to GM, much less 120. Any skill that ends up with people finally just settling for GGS gains to finish is a skill that needed something to help it along.

    Personally, I'll be buying up every Taming and music skills SoT's I can get my hands on. 4 years is long enough to spend on building a single character, and I'm tired of settling for GGS gains.
     
  33. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    LOL @ the idea that 2 -3 weeks to get a skill up to 120 is a long time...la
     
  34. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    Not everyone has hours to spend a week working on skills in order to enjoy the game for what they like to do.

    Between work, school,hobbies, being married it's hard to find time. Let alone if you've got kids too.
     
  35. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    What I'm wondering about, Raven, is the possibility that the developers just don't have the time and/or the ingenuity to come up with sufficient content in a smooth progression of difficulty to let you gain by using the skill for new skills that they plan to introduce with SA. Perhaps in order to keep to their production schedule, they plan to address that lack, at least initially, through the random drop of Scrolls of Transcendence at the champ spawns.

    I kind of lost track of where things stand with the RoT gain system on Siege. I thought something was worked out but fell through. Regardless, I'm sure that between the normal use-based skill gain system, GGS, and RoT, there is a lot of code to go through if you are intent on making improvements to eliminate the tedium that lures some into using unapproved means for gaining skills. I just hope that Scrolls of Transcendence aren't being viewed by the developers as a "quick fix" to an old issue that has probably driven away a fair number of players and has taken up a lot of GM time responding to pages about people macroing for skill gains. But then again, maybe tedious skill gains is something the developers want to keep. It leads to people investing so much time into the game and their characters that many of them feel they can't ever leave....the game becomes a job instead of something you do just for fun.
     
  36. LOL at Taming taking only 2-3 weeks to get to 120.

    Get real. You're lucky, VERY lucky, to get 4 gains in an hour once you get up closer to GM. That's going to take a hell of a lot longer to get to 120 than a few weeks. Discord isn't much better.
     
  37. solina2

    solina2 Guest

    I agreed with you and:
    No
    No
    No
    No
    No
    Seriously I will hope we can go back to some things -the old time things-
    It is bad enough with all the neon colors ackkkkkkkkk now everything HAS TO BE super super super max max..