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Discussion in 'UHall' started by Velvathos, Feb 22, 2012.
And make everything medable? Metal armor would actually become useful again..
I swore I read something in another "tweet-thread" that they are planning on making heavier (non-med) armor useful again, possibly after the dungeon revamps, who knows.
I don't think removing "Mage Armor" would be the right way though.
Because Wooden Armor would become the new thing due to the bonuses from enhancing with wood types.
UO went for years without the Mage Armor attribute. It could do so again.
Much better would be to add some small bonuses to the various metal and stone materials. Not HCI or DI since they are already for wood, but something similar. DCI and Eaters come to mind for armors.
Mage in full plate casting lightning. Bolt takes easiest path to ground. The elf in leaf gear thanks the lightning rod for saving his pointy ears.
Old days, would have armor the heavier it gets reducing dex.
Problem is there is no bonus for wearing heavier armor.
Sure there is.. you can get higher resists on pieces that are woodland.
Don't get me wrong, would be sweet if I could make a nice bloodwood suit for a mage and not waste a property on 'mage armor'.. but to say that there is no benefit for heavier armor is just foolish.
As a mage, and an elf, I'd like to be able to wear a woodland suit without wasting a property. Why would wood, which was once alive like leather, block the flow of mana?
Furthermore, why were D&D armor conventions ever brought into UO?
I agree with the OP
I always thought the benefits from Meditation transcended earthly constructed items, granted by the gods, or Nature . I never understood the 'non-med' aspect of armor. Unless man can make something stronger them.
So if placed in a metal structure, a mage could never regen, and be easily trapped? Not buying into it, sorry.
As for heavy metal armors, there could be all sorts of ways, arms of SSI, legs of haste, helm of INT, chest of strength, etc
I never understood, how a non-magical piece of leather armor offers the same protection as a non-magical piece of plate.
IMHO the resist cap should be tied to the type of armor. Everyone starts with 0 resist cap. Maximum resist cap should stay at 70% (or the racial modification). And every piece of armor (head, torso, legs, arms, hands, neck) should add a specific amount to the resist cap:
So with wearing six pieces of leather armor, one just can have a resist cap of 24%. The reason is abvious: Why should leather be as protective as plate?
A person wearing six pieces of plate would have a cap 70% (72% theoretically, but capped at 70).
I used to wear what was called the Light Archer outfit. The helmet had no dex penalty and because much was ring or chain DEX penalty was fairly small.
You need to weigh whether making these changes for RP reasons outweighs the negative fun that would accompany them. If you complicate the armor further beyond where it is, how would that be perceived by the playerbase? We already see too many complaints that people have to do simple math when determining how to build their optimal suits.
I would definitely be in favor of this.
The reason? Melee attacks cost mana. If they had instead made melee attacks cost STAMINA instead of Mana, a dexxer would have no need for int or meddible armor unless they were doing a tank-mage derivative.
It's originally dex penalty used to be enough to make it a choice between protection and stamina/mobility. With AoS, that went out the window.
I'd rather they just make it more useful, like having a higher cap on intensities since it originally offered SOME sort of benefit over every other kind of armor to compensate for it's penalties, and even then I could look past attacks costing mana.. But in lieu of that, I'd be happy if it were simply meddible.
The only advantage of wood/metal/bone armors over leather is higher bonus resist from speical material: leather: 5-12, metal: 6-13, wood: 11-18. That is more than offset by being non-med, espeically leaving no chance for metal and bone armors.
This whole conversation needs a holistic frame of thinking.
Leather armor has the benefit of being meddable with no penalty.
Other armors should have a bonus as well, just not one related to the meditation skill (light armor).
We have several new armor properties *hint hint* and no place for them to be included in the crafting menus. Casting focus, eater, and some others as well.
I'd still like to see weapon damage broken out into piercing, slashing, and bashing categories. If that were undertaken then some forms of armor could be of more advantage against those types of delivery.
There also used to exist reasons to think about which shield one might employ, and there was a time when it meant something to use a shield if you were a warrior.
The possibility of using a shield in an offensive manner is intriguing.
I totally agree with removing the Mage Armor property, but as far as making everything medable, I Totally Disagree.
In fact, I think they should take it the opposite direction. Cloth, leather and leaf ONLY for casters (that includes making cloth armor pieces for humans and elves like they did for Gargoyles). Metal armor for combat oriented skills. I also think that Swamp Dragon armor should only apply if the rider is also wearing plate armor. Wood armor should be wearable by both humans and elves, but only medable for elves. Humans should be able to med, but with a slightly lowered success rate, in studded armor.
If you think about it, it makes more sense in realistic terms, if one can apply the term "realistic" to anything UO. Take a look at stealthing. The devs went out of thier way to make the whole process seem realistic--you load up on clinking, clanking platemail, you fail at stealthing. If you walk around in supple leather, no problemo. I hear that if you lube up real good and get naked, you never fail at stealth (that's what oil flasks are really for!)!
OK, I jest, but the gist of what I am saying is that no mage was intended to go clanking around in platemail. The closest we got to that in the Ultima series was Blackthorn and Paladins, and for that there are necromancy (with it's various mana-regen schemes that do not require medable armor) and focus.
Granted, there are some seemingly useless armor types, but the above would remedy that provided they included properties on cloth so that cloth wearers had some control when crafting. This would require the introduction of something along the lines of colored ingots, leather and wood but could be implemented by different cloth types instead--wool cloth, cotton cloth, abyssal cloth, etc., so as not to interfere with all of the BOD cloth colors and such that would still be used for non-armor clothes slots. As is, the use of most of the colored resources is pointless--you simply go with what has the highest properties. I think this can be fixed by re-balancing the properties on colored resources--one end of the spectrum, say dull copper, is good for casting, ie. more likely to include elemental resists and properties that benefit a caster. The other end of the spectrum, valorite, would include higher physical resist and be more likely to have combat related properties applied. This could actually be applied to both colored resources and runic kits--they would be equally valuable, but towards different ends--one type is better for casters, one type is better for combat types, everything in the middle is varied blends of the two.
You might see a pure mage in cloth armor, a dexxer in studded and a pure tank in plate...as it used to be in UO. To be honest, I still don't understand why they strayed from that formula in the first place.
I'm sure I've just ruffled some feathers...but hey, my two cents.
"Metal armor would actually become useful again."
It is....just not for mages.
Edit: I forgot Bone Armor. While they could actually implement types of bone (ie Daemon bone, Dragon bone), I don't think it necessary. It can be made more useful by giving the pieces some automatically applied properties (in various values) during crafting that benefit users of Necromancy and Spirit Speak. Perhaps a slight mana boost when Spirit Speaking on a corpse.
Tie it to skill, type=bonus+5. Example: You put on a leather tunic, it gives you +5 in Stealth, Hiding, Thief, up to a bonus of 25 for a complete suit of all leather.
Default types of mana, regain faster after certain spells are cast. Chiv regain 2, Mage -1.
Necro +3, special move -3.
So, there would be more specific need for type depending on skill and use of weapon.
Metal, more resists, move slower based on weight totals of suit. New property similar to lower requirement can help to keep weight down.
Adjust swing speed based on total weight, less resists, faster weapon.
Mount fatique based on suit weight or gear worn.
Add special, absorb damage and base stamina regains, such as -1 and +3.
Allow more stats such as strength, intel and dexterity.
Allow a damage absorbtion based off slayer damage or protection property on a percentage.
Wood could protect you from bard songs, fire spells. For example:
Leather could lessen freeze spells.
I think they should try to go with alittle of everything and add some benefits so weakness and strength are very frequent causing people to run depending on that weakness.
UO is complicate enough, no need to make it worse. On the contrary, it should be made more simple. Imbuing is a good step toward that, more needs to be done.
Well let's face it, if we wanted to go realistic then we need to overhaul the whole weapon and armor system (half the weapon types in this game could disappear overnight and nobody would care).
If we're going to limit leather to a max resist, then we should hit all plate wearers with a huge dex penalty (say, -50!). And limit SSI, etc etc. Cause in reality, anyone wearing full plate couldn't even get on their horse without someone to help them, and after a few swings they'd be exausted....so no running in full plate in UO.
So I'm all in favor of making each armor type have a reason for existing but it's going to have to go way beyond just resist caps. But then introduce new magic properties and suddenly all this "balancing" falls apart again.
And to the person who said, we should go back to the way it was, well the way it was back in the beginning was everyone was a tank/mage. You walked around in full plate, you precast your spell, then equipped your halberd and insta-kill the next guy. There was no meditation skill, and nobody wore anything but plate unless they were new and didn't have any gold.