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Why not make checks in higher increments?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Smiley Gladhands, Dec 3, 2011.

  1. Have they discussed why they haven't made higher increment checks?

    There are many transactions that exceed what we're able to carry. Instead of looking for a broker would be nice if I could just hand higher increment checks.

    Like checks in the amount of:
    5,000,000
    10,000,000
    25,000,000
    50,000,000
    100,000,000

    or something along those lines?
     
  2. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    I think and hope it´s not done because of duping risks.
     
  3. Saphireena

    Saphireena Lore Keeper
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    At the price some things go such as houses and rares, yeah it sure is a pain that it's only 1 mill.

    Another thing that bothers me is why the maximum stack for gold in the bank is 60,000??? I'd really like to hear why it's not just a singular stack. A while back I would have wanted to buy a rare which was very expensive off a vendor which exceeded the amount of gold I can physically have in the bank even after I cleaned everything else out to reserve item counts for gold stacks only. Just wasn't enough. Thus, I was never able to buy the item and the vendor owner probably had no idea why their item was not selling and must have been paying horrendous amounts of vendor fees every day for nothing :(.
     
  4. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Duping risks.

    The fact that people already complain that there's too much gold in the game and that gold is too easy to get and store.

    The fact that the mere fact that this issue was raised will be used by someone as an excuse to eliminate checks entirely.

    -Galen's player
     
  5. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    I'll go with "there's too much gold already so let's not screw the 2 new players per month any further"
     
  6. What's the difference between them duping a 100mil check or a 300 mil event item that already exists?

    The only valid point I think would be is that they are duping an item and not adding more gold into the market. In that scenario whats keeping them from duping 1 mil checks 100 times?
     
  7. How is the ability to be able to make higher increment checks going to effect a new player?
     
  8. HD2300

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    Because EA makes $$$$$$$$$$$ from players buying increased storage space tokens and paying for accounts for houses to store items. The more items players need to store, the more money EA makes.

    Duping? Not really. If you can dupe an item, nothing is stopping someone from duping it 10000 times to make 10000 copies.
     
  9. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    We'll have even more gold in the game than we do already so they'll be even further behind and not play more than a month.

    Of course it doesn't really matter because we don't get new players anyway.
     
  10. Parnoc

    Parnoc Lore Master
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    Saphireena, I buy things from vendors all the time that exceed the amount of gold I have in my bank and it just takes all the gold and the rest from checks I have in the bank. Am I missing something here?
     
  11. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    I think what she meant to infer is that the total of all gold, including checks, has limitations. If you have all the increased bank storage options applied, you can have exactly 175 1 million checks. Anything that exceeds that amount in value cannot be bought using gold or checks.

    The maximum you could have in your backpack is 124 1 million checks. I think you need at least 1 slot free or the system won't allow the transfer. I've personally never done a player to player transfer of that size. Maybe someone else knows for sure.
     
  12. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    While there may be some who would / have asked for checks to be eliminated, I'm more in favor of just adding a bank account as a third option.

    Keep gold and keep 1 million checks and add the ability to deposit them into an account that isn't hampered by the storage limitations the current system is.
     
  13. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    Because your name is Smiley Gladhands. :banana:
     
  14. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    I think the maximum you can price something at on a vendor is 100 million.

    On the topic... I didn't think we should have larger checks because of duping. However, now I think we should. To be honest, the economy is completely messed up so if a working dupe arose again, it wouldn't really matter. If someone is going to make billions, then they'll do it regardless of whether the check is 1m or 5m. Larger checks would help in situations where the items are over the amount someone can trade safely. There are many of us who help broker these transactions to keep people from being scammed, but I strongly prefer a system where people don't need third parties to be able to be safe.
     
  15. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    This debate keeps coming up year after year and every time it's mostly the same players on each side of the issue.

    Yes there's the duping problem. Well why in the heck can't the devs manage, after fourteen years to solve that problem? While not having larger checks is a logical solution to prevent duping of larger checks. It does absolutely nothing however, to prevent the duping of high value rares and event items and continuous duping, over and over of 1 million checks. Thus, a very large hole exists in this argument.

    Eliminating checks entirely and only having actual gold piles and the bank account effectively eliminates any and all duping of 1 million checks. So what? Dupers will simply continue to dupe what's profitable.

    Like much in life, there is no PERFECT solution. Doing absolutely nothing isn't a very good solution either.
     
  16. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    100% totally agree with this statement.
     
  17. sirion

    sirion Seasoned Veteran
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    I would like some color management on the checks pls.

    A check should have a different hue if it is not 1million. Helps trade a lot easier.
     
  18. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    That's actually a really good idea too. IF there were ever checks larger than 1 million.
     
  19. sirion

    sirion Seasoned Veteran
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    I was thinking, sometimes there might be a check with less than 1mil got mixed in the bunch.
     
  20. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    IF you assume there is a way to dupe anything - you can just as easily dupe 2 million gp checks or one 2 million GP check. It is irrelevant.


    Make larger checks already. Nearly everything with any value sells for multiple millions. Its annoying moving the checks around or having to put up vendors with 100 mil gold on it just so you can store it.
     
  21. Son1c

    Son1c Guest

    ive only been playing a few months, so id class myself as a new player still..
    I have a question, how do you even get 100 million? :confused:
    I struggle to even get one lol
     
  22. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    I am guessing that it is because in the programming the INT they used is limited to 16 bits, and the max value in that instance is 65535.
     
  23. Saphireena

    Saphireena Lore Keeper
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    Oh this is just me being a newbie then, I assumed that vendors cannot "see" the gold in checks and thought all the money had to be "unpacked" into piles of gold... The reason I assumed this was because when I tried to buy something off a vendor when they were just as checks, the vendor told me I don't have enough gold to buy it. But maybe I was just imagining it then. Now I feel dumb :).
     
  24. PsychoKinetic

    PsychoKinetic Journeyman
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    This is indeed the reason why. 60,000 in a stack was felt to be a nice round number under that INT maximum value.
     
  25. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    You are right, not dumb :)

    "player" vendors will take it from checks but "npc" vendors wont.

    I think its because of the coding they used for npc's was done way before they invisiged checks and player vendors, thus they coded them to take it in coin form only and its never been updated.

    Thunderz
     
  26. Saphireena

    Saphireena Lore Keeper
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    Aaaahh!!! So I wasn't imagining then! I knew I'd seen that message! Well then that's just bad usability and should be fixed! Both vendors types need to work the same in the respect. Grr :) Thanks for clearing that up!
     
  27. Rupert Avery

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    they did implement it for a very short time.. but again just as quickly stopped it I am not very sure why...
     
  28. Herman

    Herman Seasoned Veteran
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    Only way to get that much is to sell stuff to other players find out what stuff sell for alot then hunt for that
    Selling Imbuing reasources use to be a good way to make alot of money
    It is alot easier to make gold on a big shard than on a small one
    on the other hand prices are lower on small shards so your gold is more worth
     
  29. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    It was because of the transfer dupe that was happening at the time.

    Trillions of gold got duped in a matter of weeks before they figured out what was going on.

    Most you can xfer with is around 800mill in checks, now imagine those checks being 100million not 1 million [due to the house vendor bug] thats what??? 8 trillion or "quad"zillion??

    Thats why, if it ever happens again it would bang the economy harder than.... I dont know what lol

    Thunderz
     
  30. Elric_Soban

    Elric_Soban Babbling Loonie
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    because the economy is screwed bad enough without larger checks being possible.

    nothing should be expensive enough to justify checks larger than a mil.

    instead of some duper/luna scammer hoarding hundreds of mil, maybe billions.. now he's hoarding trillions. prices skyrocket. new players quit.

    lets leave it alone.
     
  31. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    If your enjoying the game. Then your experience is priceless. And priceless experiences you will keep having as long as the bar is high.


    Trying to compete with the Jones's hoard next door is a fun sucker at best. Solo grinding for Tangles to sell. Where is the fun there? There is so much to do in the game at this day and age. Get a group of like minded friends and tackle the UO world on your own. The party will have unending fun.


    I remember an old photo of a German woman pushing cart full of money. The caption was about the post war economy and the two loafs of bread she could buy with what she had.


    The Fix would need to be a fast broadside slam to players. The word is put out to the UO world through all methods right down to the rare in game messaging. At the same time all stacked items sold by NPCs is turned off. Every paying active account gets a one account bond safe per shard that can be house or boat held. Those account characters can place all their gold in the safe in check or coin form. After a two week window of time all gold in the safe is tallied and ammount locked to safe. Flip switch and all gold in game in all hiding places and in forms in the game is removed. Tallied ammount on all safes reduced by 3, 5 or 10. Players in game vote. With 10 anything that sold for 300 mil is now 30 mil. Bing. Done. Gold can now be withdrawn from the safe in check forms.
     
  32. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
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    Worrying that higher value cheques will encourage duping is like worrying that someone left a tap running whilst the titanic sank. Theres so much water already on board that the running tap makes little difference.

    Lets just make everyones life easier and get higher value cheques in game.
     
  33. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Nope read above. Player takes time to loot gold is worth more then a jackarse that needs to fill GP site sales coffers however. Things get stupid priced again then have another gold downsizing program. Either the sites will not keep up with downsizing or players will stop throwing away RL money for pixels. Learn to meet the needs to making RL goals feeling UO supplies with fantasy RPG goals achievement. The game doesn't need to be tainted with some gold site sales ass needing to buy a Jetski.
     
  34. Krinkle

    Krinkle Journeyman
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    What do you mean 'if'. I would have to say that there is almost always a current working gold dupe or exploit. 2011-2012 is no exception.
     
  35. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Make the money non-physical and you do away with the duping problems, trade problems, and the like.

    But then that would stir up the bees nest of "I like to see my gold!"
     
  36. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Duping aside... it has become nessassary to ask the Dev to make Gold Checks larger, 5,10 ,25,100 mill would be helpfull but even just getting 10 mill checks would be better then nothing.

    With the advent of EM Event items going for 100mill and some shard house's selling in excess of 25 mill and up... (have heard castles on Atlantic are in the 1 billion range)

    Banks limited even with the 60% extra space cant hold the massive amounts of gold many players have in hand, meaning empty vendor repositorys are filling the shards to hold the vast wealth of UO players.

    Years ago I would never have thought we would need the larger checks, and didnt want them but in the last few years it has become increasingly obvious we need them.
     
  37. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    Lol, so I guess you think math is irrelevant too right? Let's see here:

    125 x 1 million check = 125 million or 125,000,000

    125 x 100 million check = 12500 million or 12,500,000,000

    Nah, let's get bigger checks. There's nothing wrong with those numbers.

    FYI, the 125 is the max amount of items that can be held in a backpack. And if you have any second hand knowledge of how duping has occurred in the past then you'd know that a majority of them relied upon a set amount of items being in a container of some type. Furthermore, any container supposedly has a max limit of 125 items that can be placed in it.

    This is also the reason why this thread exists is because of that 125 item limit. It's a choose the better of two evils situation and if you don't think the math makes any sense then you have already chosen.
     
  38. Potgut

    Potgut Seasoned Veteran
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    Just a thought on the economy, The prices of NPC vendors have virtually stayed the same forever (sure, it changes a little amount here and there to reflect its current moment of inventory, but i'm talking about big picture..) , their prices hasn't reflect the inflation of gold in the past 14 years I think it's about time NPC vendors charge more due to inflation just like real life.
     
  39. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    This.

    No need for bigger checks, after the gold is looted, being simply a part of "on character funds" makes it a more versatile and secure system.

    Probably limit the amount of gold a player can carry, but have a bigger storage level in each character's bank for "deposits" (yes, I know the Diablo II comparisons will fly, I don't care).

    There ARE some items that actually adjust based on demand, notably resources (ingots, cloth, bottles, etc) and ammo.
     
  40. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    I'm sorry, but that's just the dumbest argument of all against making checks larger than 1 million.
     
  41. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Let's say each stage of a successful dupe takes 1 minute. (We're doing this solely for ease of math.)

    1. Get the gold.

    2. Make the gold a cheque.

    3. Dupe the cheque.

    4. "Launder" the cheque by converting it to cash money, then remaking the cheque.

    5. Presto! Double your money!

    5 steps, 5 minutes. 1 million gold is now 2 million gold.

    Now let's say you can make 10 million gold cheques.

    5 steps. 5 minutes. 10 million gold is now 20 million gold.

    The actual time isn't as relevant as is the fact that by definition you've made the same amount of time net you many times more ill-gotten gains.

    I emphasize that part not because I'm shouting or I think you're thick or anything lame like that, but because I want it to be 100% clear to all that my time frame is completely made, up for illustration (and entertainment) purposes only.

    -Galen's player
     
  42. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    If you can dupe 100 1 million checks into 200 million in five minutes or dupe 500 million into one billion in five minutes. It IS irrelevant. Dupers are going to use a dupe continuously non-stop right up until the moment the devs shut it off.

    So at 1 million gold per check, duping 100 checks every 5 minutes, a duper is still going to great billions and billions if not even a trillion in gold before it's discovered and shut down. If we're lucky the ill-gotten wealth is found and deleted.

    Once again the major argument from many players is, for the millionth time in UOs history, to force the rest of us to suffer in order to slap the cheaters on the wrist or slow them down. It always ends up harming the gameplay of legitimate players and benefiting the cheaters more.

    I'm not an advocate of making checks in much larger amounts. Only in very extreme cases would even 25 million gold checks be necessary. However, 5 million gold checks would/could cover most anything most players would want to trade with each other.

    I've always been a much bigger advocate of the bank account system. Leaving gold and checks as they currently are and creating an account that isn't limited by physical stacks of gold or the maximum amount of a check. There appears to be some other players with the same idea. Now if you really wanted to prevent future duping of large amounts of gold you'd also have to eliminate even the 1 million gold check. That's a decision better left up to the devs.
     
  43. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    Now we're getting somewhere. Although I could have sworn this has been proposed before. Not the first time for an idea though. Unfortunately.
     
  44. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Since the devs, actually Supreeme, said adding more gold to mobs into the game, then checks should be bigger and gold stacks should go up to 100k at least.
     
  45. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Why not put a timer on gold and checks so that you could only save gold and checks in your bank or it would decay and disappear.

    This would stop one account from filling up boxes within a house or characters and pets. So, if you wanted to save more money you would have to open up more accounts so that you would have more bank space.

    The decay time could give you enough time to make transactions or enough time to loot and go hunting for a few hours and then bank.

    This way any money that's inside player's houses, boats, pets, characters or even friend's houses will decay.
     
  46. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    Most other systems like to do a bank account system, which I am ambivalent about. It keeps you from having to deal with clutter, but after a point it just becomes a number (which is why some folks have trouble with their checking accounts.)

    In any case, perhaps we need a hybrid system.

    60k piles, 1M checks, and "secure banking" that can hold any amount for a fee (say 1%.) So if you don't want to get the fee charged (on deposit) you keep everything in piles, but you use a lot more storage. If you don't mind the fee for the extra storage, you put everything in your deposit account.

    For large transfers, perhaps you can specify your secure account to pay for things, or you have to get a special item from the minter that is used for the payment (for another fee.)

    You can even set it up so minters deal with the "secure deposits" only and the bankers deal with the garbage you store.

    The fee quiets the people who keep arguing that lots of money is bad, since it is one of their vaunted "gold sinks" that people will actually use.
     
  47. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Don't we effectively have this already via vendors?
     
  48. Capn Kranky

    Capn Kranky Guest

    Lemme give this a shot ...

    Q. How many items can a bankbox hold?
    A. 125

    60,000gp x 125 = 7,500,000gp which is the largest check which could be redeemed in the bankbox. For sanity sake, make it 5,000,000gp as a check denomination. This would work.

    Optimal solution: Raise the base maximum item limit of a bankbox to something like 250 which could then allow redemption of a 10mil check.

    Possible issue: Unless it has changed, your character actually has the bankbox attached invisibly to him/her. This is why you can access it in any city/town in the lands. Would raising the potential number of items dragged along with the character cause lag for them? Unknown.

    I would not like to see checks above 10mil myself unless there is the ability to redeem it, which there does not seem to be ATM.
     
  49. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    It's precisely because of those limitations that having it as a non-physical account holding a digital monetary value is the way to go.

    We already have a system with similar mechanics in game. Tithing points.
     
  50. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I guess you need numbers to understand this ok here is the math....

    Normal bank limit is 125 items
    with 60% extra room its 175 items

    Now if they raised the limit up to 100 million check

    Where do you all see the trouble in cashing them?? OK lets take this a step further in the math world...

    ok you need to buy that Atlantic castle.... ok if your that well off its a billion gold... with the checks up to 100 mill you make 10 checks and hand them over whrn you transfer the building no need for a broker nada!

    I see no need for any higher then 100 mill check. Now to talk the Dev into it..... now that where the slide ruler comes in and the degree in astro physics comes in handy..........