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Why several common insurance proposals are bad ideas

Discussion in 'UHall' started by GalenKnighthawke, Sep 14, 2008.

  1. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    There have been a lot of insurance posts of late. However dead the horse is, people keep whacking at it. Lest people get the wrong idea about some of these proposals (that they are good ideas), I figured I'd toss together some of my arguments against them. This isn't an exhaustive list of arguments. In fact just before I posted I thought of several more, but in the interests of length I decided to post "as is," more or less.

    As these issues keep popping up, I'm going to save this material and drag it out again when the time arises.

    In this message are the reasons the following often-proposed changes to item insurance are bad ideas, one and all. I tried to stay relatively short.

    -Removal of insurance entirely;
    -Removal of item insurance from Trammel (that one's just in there to cover all bases);
    -Removal of item insurance from Felucca in particular;
    -“Scaling” of item insurance to the “worth” of an item.



    Why would it be a bad idea to remove item insurance entirely from the game?

    Because UO is, since the release of Age of Shadows, more of an item-based game than it once was. A character's suit can be carefully tailored to its needs, even when the player is “only” a casual player. In many cases, even most cases, to permanently lose an item would be equivalent to permanently losing skill points under the old system. Sure, a new item could be made or found, but one may never-again find “just the right” item.

    This would lead to frustration. While frustration is part of the UO experience and always has been, no one plays a game, any game, specifically to be frustrated. So it's best when frustration is kept to a minimum.


    Why would it be a bad idea to remove item insurance from Trammel?

    In Trammel, no insurance would lead only to frustration, with other players attempting to ensure they stood by every lich corpse until it went public, when someone has recently died in the area.

    Also, because no one wants it.

    The argument presented below for Felucca is also valid for Trammel, but less so.

    I left this one in just for thoroughness purposes. I can't think of anyone who has argued to remove insurance from Trammel but leave it in Felucca.


    Why would it be a bad idea to remove insurance specifically from Felucca?

    In Felucca, no insurance would GREATLY favor large, “zerg” guilds. These guilds could pool their resources to easily replace anything that was lost, could cut their losses down to an absolute minimum by guarding corpses carefully when a death occurred and by having people who fall below half health drop “to the back of the line” until they heal up. Under the current system, these tactics can be and are employed. However, a smaller guild, or a solo player, can fight a “zerg” guild and, in the event of a death, recover with no permanent loss of effectiveness. The issue would under a no insurance system be that the bigger guilds could maintain their effectiveness, even in the face of superior combat skill. A solo player or a smaller guild who got completely overrun would have their effectiveness completely wiped away in one single blow.

    To some of you, that's the point. But it wouldn't be a good thing for the game.


    Why would it be a bad idea to make item insurance “scaled” to the item's property or worth?


    Several reasons.

    One, “worth” is a subjective concept, related to the player's needs of the moment. Suits can be highly customized, and what might be trash to one equipment template might be gold to another. The Ornament of the Magician is considered the “best” item in the game by many, even by dexers. But my current bracelet suits my needs a lot better. No matter what system they devised, it would be severely flawed, and there would be weird results, for which we would savagely ridicule EA.

    Two, UO would become even more complicated than it already is. Sometimes more complexity is needed but the threshold for making the game more complex should be pretty high.

    Three, and most importantly, it would hurt newer, poorer, and more casual players. Let's say a casual player, with say just a few hundred thousand gold in the bank (there are more players like this than some people like to admit) makes his way to Doom, and winds up with the Ornament. He decides to keep pushing to see if he can get any additional artifacts, rather than leave immediately. (He might do this just for efficiency's sake, or because Doom is fun, or because he wants to use the Ornament and wants another artifact to compensate himself for the cost of the gold skull.) He of course insures his Ornament. However, he proceeds to die a few times. His account drains, he loses track, and his Ornament (and indeed his entire suit) goes un-insured and is looted by a lich lord.

    This could easily happen, and that's in a setting where you can be reasonably expected to get something uber, where someone might try to prepare. What about the lucky soul who is working skills, or getting cash, on Ice Fiends and happens to get an uber item? (Others have gotten very good items off of Ice Fiends, so this is very much possible.) Someone in this situation wouldn't even necessarily have thought to make sure he had enough gold in “cash” form (you know how we're all paranoid that insurance doesn't always “read” checks?) to cover an uber item he might happen to stumble across.


    -Galen's player
     
  2. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    You are very much correct about possible ramifications ... which is why I and others have said there would have to be other changes first, before insurance could viable be removed from Fel.
     
  3. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I don't see the point in trying to battle with players to get insurance removed from Tram. I don't like the risk free environment there, but if others play it and want that security, it's not my place to say otherwise.

    Fel is different. There are big dominating guilds however you do things. Always will be Nothing is stopping the underdogs from grouping up or forming alliances with others. Ultmately, when you have PvP areas that aren't instantised, that sort of behaviour will happen, as you can't control the players arriving and leaving areas. But your arguements aren't justification for sitting with our current system or continuing to remove Fel's risks. The playing field is not even and well balanced under the current system. There is no feeling of truly losing something if you mess up a battle. No reason to tackle a player stronger than yourself, because gold is meaningless.

    I'm not afraid to lower my wishes to get a more workable risk level in Fel, but right now we're moving towards an environment where risk diminishes over time. Fel is turning into Fel light and who is that supposed to appeal to? If I want to PvP without risks, I do it in RP battles in Tram. I don't expect Fel to be moulded so it's easy for me. In the end there won't be a difference between Tram and Fel which is a shame. I like options, not blandness. I would rather Fel was abandoned than diluted. That's where we're going right now.

    Wenchy
     
  4. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    remove insurance in Fel and one thing is surely going to happen.. the zerg will get even stronger , non zerg players would not risk loosing highly valuable items to the zerg , so the zerg is the only ones in above average gear , now the zerg is even stronger , and no one has a chance against it... I predict that to get borring very fast , unless your family name is " ThA BoRg "

    But hey try it for a month.. but let me know before hand so I dont pay for my accounts that month...
     
  5. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Well if you love the existing diluted Fel so much, chances are you'll be living there forever. It's a pity you can't think beyond "zerg" or see what will happen if Fel keeps moving towards a Tram ruleset, but that's thankfully not my problem. I do hope there are players enjoying Fel in years to come, however it pans out, but I don't hold out much hope for a real alternative to Tram.

    Wenchy
     
  6. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    I'm all for spicing Fel up , but dont remove insurance , there has to be other ways thats all I'm saying....
     
  7. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Removing insurance from felucca would just mean that ppl would use exceptional armors... Or some blessed quest armor pieces.

    PvP is the thing I mostly do. TBH I don't care if there's insurance in felucca or not. Now I run around with my dang expensive gear, if insurance is removed I make 200x exceptional suits to my house. Risk is the same. Actually it could be even cheaper to lose exceptional suit then paying 600gp for insurance on every piece when I die...
     
  8. Sebrina

    Sebrina Guest

    :bdh:

    I quite agree with your post. I tend to play lone-wolf much of the time, and when I go mark runes for libraries and research in Felucca, I hate being attacked. I work under the rules of Fel, so I usually take my two Bake Kitsune with me for my excurtions.

    I don't want to have to find similar armor all over again, so yeb, I like my insurance if I do happen to fall victim to another's play style of PK. They are usually running once they target me - my Bakes will telli right to them and if you've never had a Kitusune on you, then you don't know what two in protection mode can do.

    And, if need be - I'll Teli out and pick up my Bakes later, or just pick up some others later. When I came back after a short break just as SA was coming out
     
  9. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    How so? There is a biggest difference in PvP players and PvM players in how they build characters, and suits. Remove Item defendant game play from Fel and the advantages of a PvP built Template diminish. Suits won't be built around Mods, everyone builds around resists but in PvP Mods have a bigger factor. So what if a guild pools gear...how long will that last before someone gets a wild hair and steals it and then leaves the guild?, or before those resources dry up? What if you can't have enough +dex to get that extra tick removed on your bandage timer...it's a major factor in PvP. It removes advantages from equipment from PvP and brings it back to player skill. Granted Scripts are an issue but it's a separate one that needs to be the primary focus of the Dev team, even before new content or changes to current content.

    Short term removal of insurance might cause difficulty but it's the long term benefits that make it a logical step, at least to me. It helps bring balance back to PvP because it restricts what you can count on being able to put on a character, which is resists not +skill or high mod items. Are you as a PvPer going to wear gear you might not be able to replace easily knowing if you loose it your template takes a major hit? No... it's doubtful if you would. What you would do is adjust your template not to rely on items...those that don't get it right away will eventually. How many items that are throw away will have some value? 0/2 jewels for example. There are solutions without depending on items.

    In Truth Fel is nothing but a shadowed Trammel, it's a bit darker but there is no other difference.
     
  10. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    And yet you make yet another thread about it? Hmmm, interesting. Continue whacking.

    Insurance is the effect. The cause was EA deciding to make UO and even more item based game as opposed to coming up with new content to keep people interested. So, instead of making end game things to add, they added more and more items and item properties until we got to the point where people needed to be a math major to understand the ins and outs of anything they wear. At that point, those people that went out and spent tons of gold on these new suit of armor pieces, jewels and weapons began to complain about the risk they faced of losing those items. So, up pops insurance. Until a time when EA steers away from item based and back to skill based, insurance is going to be a reality. Sad but true.
     
  11. I think your reasoning on the whole zerg thing is true yet flawed. its a whiners point of view (hear me out before you get defencive). Ill bet the people in the zerg guild dont see it quite the same way.

    Let me put it in another set of terms.

    The Champ spawn is a great vast oasis, a real eden for the great herd of rhino that frequent it.
    Now all these rhino dont fit in the pool of water at once, so they share it, and each is relativly happy to have their share, albeit a small share. (the rhino are the zerg btw :p)
    Anyway so the rhino are there for the oasis and the fruits on the trees etc (phat lewtz)
    They have brought their family with them (their leet itemz) and due to their size and the safety in numbers they are happy there.

    So theres your zerg, happy laying it all on the line feeling safe... Perhaps too safe?

    Now theres the lions... they like fruit (in this story anyway) andthey like the pools of water.

    But it would be stupid for the lions to think they can waltz in and steal the friut(powerscrolls), or try to take down one of the rhinos for its meat (leet itemz and phat lewts)

    What a lion does, in its small pride (not so massive zerg) is wait, it finds the rhino that went to the edge of the oasis and after its all FULL of fruit and water (phat lewts) feeling secure and safe that it can get back to its friends, The lions run out and beat the crap outta it, now sure the lions arnt nearly as massive (well armored) as the rhino and it doesnt have a big horn (phat weaponz) but they can take one down (and its family if its lucky) (his items and hopefully dependant on where you catch him phat lewts and ps!)

    Now the lions can either send out one or two fast runnin lions to make the rest of the rhinos think twice about comming to save the already dead ones meat (why would they risk losing their gear trying to get someone elses who they know not that well with it being such a large guild when they have the chance of killing you and getting your gear !) so they all chase off the lions runnin around giving a sneaky lion chance to fill up on meat (hope your still with the anaolgy here guys!) OR they go straight for the fallen rhino to help, giving the ones whove already eaten some chance to run off, or even go and tackle another lone rhino?

    Or theres even the chance the rest of the herd moved on and you found a straggler still enjoying the oasis (phat lewtz)




    SO in summary, YEAH a small group of players cant beat or risk a full frontal attack in uninsured gear because they arnt going to have as good gear. BUT the big group of zerg isnt infallible just because it has strength, yeah if run perfectly as the op suggests, the injured will fall back etc but thats not going to happen all the time, sure in the PERFECT group of players that will happen, but chances are the best guys will be at the front the worst at the back healing or whatching too scared, so when some of their guys runs to the back maybe they are running away? maybe everyone scatters?

    But like i say thats a PERFECT group, thats not likely if youve just tried to be the biggest group that you will also be the best (and hell if you are... well.. lol dont they deserve to beat you?)

    What im trying to say is natural balance is always going to be in uo and that balance and freedome is why uo is awesome, its not forced like it is in wow, (numbers strictly controlled and loss very very finely minimized) its player defined, yeah in wow it tells you what todo all the god damn time, and that makes you feel safer and happier and you know where your next meal is comming from. it tells you, your group is as big as their group its all the same level roughly, go fight in a straight fair fight. In uo its more "hey you found some guys.. what you wanna do? how many are there? can you beat them? dunno :p go have fun finding out thou! oh they beat you this time... what you gonna do? give up? try later when they leave? try sneak up on them? split them into two smaller groups with a decoy?" Literally any real world tactic can work on uo, or a version thereof

    And yeah what ive said here totally applies currently, but when the reward for bringing down a rhino is the same as it is for killing the monkey thats been throwing its own poo at a tree for 12 hours solid, its not really ever going to seem fair if you keep attacking rhinos head on because uo didnt tell you not to....

    PS: a whimbaway a whimbaway a whimbaway aahhhwoooooooo...
     
  12. Thats kinda why people want to get rid of insurance in fel, its a steering away from item based and back to skill based. Its hopefully going to but probably not going to work because people that stand to lose nothing are too scared to allow a change they dont want to effect them even when it wont.
     
  13. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    Does that make Thieves the Hyena that scavenges what it can....
     
  14. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    The OP makes good points (except for the felucca-only argument which really does not hold much water). BUT... he forgets that the insurance threads are coming up again in such numbers because of the upcoming changes with imbuing.

    Of course, depending on how imbuing is implemented and tweaked, the OP reasoning may still stand or may be utter rubbish. Which is exactly the reason why removing insurance (from the game, or from fel only) should be conceptually explored, and should be explored _before_ the changes to imbuing are finalized.

    AoS was a strategic choice for the game, with some serious long-term consequences (I suppose we can all agree on this, whether you think they were good or bad). Now, imbuing implies another strategic decision: keep the game as it is, or make it more similar to pre-AoS UO (Note for those who do are not aware of the difference: pre-AoS is NOT pre-Trammel).

    They are strategic choices, on which the devs have to decide soon enough, i.e. before they implement imbuing. Thus I find this is EXACTLY the moment discuss the alternative choices, and speculate on their effects.
     
  15. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Messing with insurance is tricky. Since parts of your equipment are worth millions and it sometimes takes you months or years to find a specific piece completing your suit, you just cannot afford to risk such items. It would lead to massive frustration.

    Back in the Early Days, when armor consisted of regular excpetionally crafted items, the loss did hurt, but items could be replaced with a realtively small effort.

    In other words: With runic crafted items and artifacts, THE TIMES HAVE CHANGED. You just cannot abolish insurance without causing a lot of trouble.

    My suggestion:
    Leave insurance as it is now, but LIMIT IT! Maybe to 6 pieces per character.
    This way you could insure the most valuable items, but still have a small risk of losing something.
     
  16. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    And with imbuing crafted items they _might_ change again. The point is speculating on what changes should be done, if any.
     
  17. Fox (Europa)

    Fox (Europa) Guest

    The only ones whining for insurance removal are a few noisy posters here that want the game to return to a state before AoS that is gone and dust. Its impossible to take such a backward step and would leave about 10% of the current player-base playing.

    Its simply pointless and a waste of time to post about the removal of insurance as the vast majority, including the dev team, are against it.

    Fox
     
  18. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I think imbuing is going to bring in a lot of items which will mean players can easily replace a decent suit. Ok, maybe not the godly suits, but that's not to say we won't be able to do very nicely with reproducable kit.

    If we did limit insurance I wouldn't allow 6 items, more like 3, but just in Fel. I don't feel it's worth opening the can of worms that is Tram insurance heh. At least not until it's proven that items are easy to acquire, and even then I doubt Tram folks want any part in it now.

    Wenchy
     
  19. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    I don't think anything about imbuing, as it does not even exist yet. I think it has the POTENTIAL to bring big changes into the game, but that really depends on how it is designed. In essence, depends on the strategic plans of the dev-team (assuming they have one, their track record does not encourage people to think they have, but between leurocian and draconi I HOPE something good may come up).
     
  20. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    This is laboring under the illusion that one must have an uber suit to do anything. Seige has proved this untrue. All it does is bring things back into the realm of player skill, which makes monsters harder, making pvp more exciting, and gives crafters something to do again.
     
  21. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    ....Which is why Siege was created, to cater to those enjoying the same points of view as you. So log back in there taking with you all the Insurance Nay-sayers and may you have loads of fun, meanwhile leaving MY kind of fun the HELL ALONE.

    Seriously, this is the last time I even reply to such threads. :bowdown:
     
  22. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Wanna bet?...la
     
  23. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    The only thing you are interested in is a pre AoS pre trammel world. In which case you would be worse off, because nothing in the game would be worth stealing. (compared to the props on todays weps, and armor) *snickers*.

    So...like the devs. have stated before, insurance is not going away. In fact, if one of the moderators dug back a bit...you would find that the insurance threads have been time and time again locked. If I am not mistaken it is a no-no here to bring up or reopen dead threads. Is it in your best interest as a moderator to open or to coax others to reopen locked thread subjects?
     
  24. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Would you care to show where it is posted or has been stated that "insurance removal" has been barred from discussion here?...la
     
  25. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Take the time to look sir, as not knowing is no excuse to not knowing. Pick a thread, mostly any thread on the subject that has been locked.

    btw...I do apologize if you think my response is abrasive but I am just growing quite tired of seeing insurance threads popping up again and again...even after the subject has been time and time again closed via moderator. As a moderator are you not subject to following the rules you are here to moderate?
     
  26. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Just as there is a choice to which shard you play, and which ruleset within that shard you play, there are choices here too. If you see a thread about insurance, don't open it. If the title obscures the fact that it is about insurance, close the thread and don't reply to it.

    It's rather simple. As long as the tone of the discussion stays within the RoC...there are no problems...la
     
  27. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    you are asking everyone to turn thier heads while a few repost locked thread content. you are also a moderator and are supposed to do as your title implies no? (that is regardless of the UO forum you moderate)

    ...hence me putting attention about this on you.
     
  28. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    The part you forget, the reason previous threads were locked, had nothing to do with the base premise of the thread, but because the discussion crossed the RoC.

    Nothing more...la
     
  29. Restroom Cowboy

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    What you refuse to admit is that a locked thread is a locked thread. If the content was what locked it the first time any moderator will tell you that it is not allowable to reopen the topic for discussion in a new thread.

    Of course this is the second time I have mentioned this now in as many threads. Imagine that, having to explain to a mod the rules and then having to remind them of how it is they are continuing to break them.

    Seems you are only here to argue the right of arguing locked topics...good job. Troll more sir moderator.
     
  30. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Nobody has re-opened locked threads. New threads have been created to discuss insurance. There is nothing wrong with that...la
     
  31. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    BINGO

    This is the same reason the bunches of Trammies were complaining about allowing reds into Trammel. No one asked to remove or change any of the rulesets, just to allow reds to hunt, purchase and interact with other players in Trammel.

    They are too scared of losing the stranglehold they have on this game and it's causing this game to die.

    We need a new vision, a new future and one that make sense so Ultima Online will be here for another 10 years.
     
  32. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    If, as I suspect, gargoyles are going to get a bonus to imbuing as a character trait, it also stands to reason that the resulting items will be decent. Of course I could be wrong, and have been on plenty of things, but I think it's worth considering.

    Even without imbuing, if items cannot be lost or broken, eventually we'll reach the point where only godly items can sell. I'm throwing items that a few years ago would have been sellable, but now everyone has permanant items of a much higher quality, nobody's interested. Something has to be done at some point to rejuvinate the demand for these items. Whether it's insurance or decaying items. But players won't be happy with the latter as it would affect everyone rather than just Fel players.

    Wenchy
     
  33. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    You mean the threads Trammies try to Hijack and get locked so that they can abuse that rule?

    Sorry, things don't work that way. :scholar:
     
  34. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    That is the problem with UO's economy. There is no steady state, no equilibrium, no kind of balance what-so-ever... it's just a straight b-line to the end where everyone has everything they want and doesn't need anything else from anyone...

    The number one thing about this game people miss pre-Trammel is COMMUNITY!!! and this is just one more way to take a chunk out of what's left of it... kill player interactions and dependency should be these "RAWR LETS KEEP ITEM INSURANCE RAWR" people keep this broken insurance system.

    We need to make ourselves heard and let the Devs know that it's time to:

    Bring back Risk Vs Reward!!!
     
  35. Restroom Cowboy

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    hmmm...I was under the impression this game was dying because of lack of content...hence SA being announced.

    Your first idea had/has no hold on the insurance issue. You simply just dont want to spend the time building a suit like others do on prodo shards. (you admitted yourself that you aerent gear based...so either you want the insurance change to make not having a suit more playable on prodo shards or else you want the other guys suit...regardless I cannot think of reason/s more selfish for change. )

    Pardon me if I inferred too much from your numerous posts on this subject but between being guilded with you and seeing your posts I think I hit the proverbial nail on the head with my impression of your opinion.
     
  36. Restroom Cowboy

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    the problem with our community is that we are getting left with the bottom of the barrel. when good people leave due to interaction with buttholes...who fills thier shoes? the answer is more buttholes that buy the good ppls accounts.

    risk vs. reward? its already there silly...you just need to look for it rather than posting about it 24/7.
     
  37. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    1. Lack of content - you do realize that content is not just adding new monsters, new items and new places to visit... right? You do realize that content is what you do in game... bartering, hanging out with friends, visiting player run establishments, participating in player to player conflict and interactions, so on and so forth?

    This has everything to do with content. What exactly do Crafters have for content? They can't obtain the peerless ingredients, so they buy them to craft 1 item that everyone already has. Oh wait, what you said makes no sense... k, next point.

    2. Who said I don't have good gear? Who said I don't have fully developed and fully suited characters on Prodoshards? (Namely Atlantic?)

    Because I do.

    I've been playing this game for 11 years and I am at the end game.


    But hey, you don't need to make up stuff and start assuming things about a me because YOU don't have an argument, and the only way you can make one, is by making it up.

    Like usual, you're totally wrong, so just stop.
     
  38. Anakena

    Anakena Seasoned Veteran
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    Actually, before AoS Huge guilds were not so common. There were lot of small guilds hunting all around felucca. I am convinced that another change promoted the rise of zerg guilds : the new guild system and the changes to area effects. This alone made it mandatory to be part of guild/alliance. And I don"t even mention the "...beneficial act..." bug.

    Let's face it, nowadays we have already large zerg guilds and in whatever system they should have an advantage, be it their number.

    The main problem is that death must have a meaning. In faction there is a temporary skill loss, under pub 16 champion spawn rules you was out of T2A and dungeons for 20 minutes, in felucca you was lootable. This is actually in favor of zerg guilds, especially in places like Despise, as you can kill them a lot, but they simply win because they keep rezzing faster than you kill them.

    On the other hand, I don't believe in removing insurance. I think a temporary skill loss could be a solution.
     
  39. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    I'm more in favor of making insurance only auto-renewable for up to 3 times...

    In order to refresh the number of times you auto-renew your insurance, you must go to your own home or to a town.

    I think this gives rise to something great like Factions where you can bless your items and risk the 20 minute stat-loss. (Only if faction fighting is opened up to all of UO of course... cause that's a huge reward... needs a huge risk.)
     
  40. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    I am fully aware what cantent is about...we were discussing insurance...peerless ingredients are uninsuarable so if you wish to use them as an example perhaps you should consider the subject of debate first?
    who said it? you did!!! in your own posts even. I also know firsthand from seeing you play in said suits. Your gear is not bad...but im saying you dont have the money in your suits that some do. 11 years? who cares?

    saying someone is wrong without providing reason is EL OH EL worthy. As I said before, *nuh-uh* is not an active form of debate.
     
  41. Galen's player is right on the money on all counts.

    To be fair, there have been many a thoughtful proposal, counter proposal, and intelligent, valid, and compelling arguments from both camps (of insurance and anti-insurance).

    Perhaps, exactly like the very purpose Seige was created for, the Devs could try applying different rulesets for different shards. Admittedly, this is but a band-aid, and not an ideal solution.

    However, my concern is that, the Devs (assuming they can even agree amongst themselves; these are highly polarizing and polemic issues) might somehow create the worst-of-both-worlds, heeding particular suggestions from both camps in the worst possible combination, making virtually everyone (ie. both camps) unhappy with the final result.

    That would truly spell the death of UO.
     
  42. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Ugh... how did you miss the part in bold?!?!?

    If everyone has the item... and insurance makes it so that those people won't lose the item... and the crafter just crafted an item everyone already has...

    Dude, just forget it, this conversation is just waaayyy over your head.