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Wild Wild West of UO?

Discussion in 'UO Origin' started by Eyes of Origin, Sep 6, 2009.

  1. In one of the recent interviews with the Devs, one of them said the following...

    UO was like the Wild West in its early days, everything seemed fairplay and you took your life in your hands when you left town; does that still exist in today's UO?

    Calvin: That's something we're going to try to do in two pieces. We're going to have an announcement after this launch about another piece that will turn UO back into the Wild, Wild West that everyone wants. But before that, within the Stygian Abyss, there are areas that are Player vs. Player combat that, are, I'll just go ahead and say it, where the "Care Bears" have to travel. As you are going from one place to another, yeah it's all fine. But The Abyss is not a place you travel alone. I think that's what players have been missing a lot. Also, there are more challenges for the brain that aren't handholding exercises. You're going to have to go and find and do some discovery. I think a lot of things that the players say they want we've as a production team gone and said "We're going to give it to you our way and remind you of what Ultima Online was like."


    My question is.. for FUN.. What does everyone think this may mean??? I've heard numerous guesses as to what it could be.
     
  2. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    LOL :party:

    [​IMG]
     
  3. lol cute response ... but since no one else will bite though and post what they think this could mean I'll post a few of the guesses I've heard...

    1. certain areas in Fel where there would be no insurance

    2. no guard zones at all in the Fel areas of SA

    3. bounties
     
  4. Stussywear

    Stussywear Journeyman
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    Hopefully its a PreAOS or Pub 16 shard.
     
  5. blueturtle

    blueturtle Lore Keeper
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    Yeah that would be nice
     
  6. Pan Arcane

    Pan Arcane Sage
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    A new cowboy class with shotguns to kill greater dragons
     

  7. This made a decision for me.

    I had been contemplating coming back to UO after about 2 years away to check out the Stygian Abyss, but if I'm going to be forced to go into non-con pvp just to check the new content there's no way I'm coming back. All I see happening here is reds just sitting and hiding waiting for a blue to come along. I think if anything this will drive subscribers away more than bringing them in. There's a large population of players that live for pvp but I'm inclined to think there's a larger population that prefer the social aspect of pvm. Anyone checked out the population of Fel compared to Tram lately?

    Everyone have fun while it lasts cause UO is on it's last legs.

    BTW sorry about hijacking your thread, it just seemed like an appropriate place to post this.
     
  8. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *chuckles* You have it all wrong. No one is "forcing" into any play style. You will be able to enjoy the new content and never get 'flagged' ...

    You will only enter a PvP area by choice. Just like it is now.
     
  9. Chaucer, the same arguement has been made on UHall over and over again since this interview was posted. I can understand your thoughts on it, but was looking for more of what ppl thought Cal meant.

    I didnt start playing UO till after ML came out, so I have no idea what pre AoS was like, but it would be nice to see what it was like.
     
  10. Pan Arcane

    Pan Arcane Sage
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    Why should EA lick the ball gravy of trammies for another expansion?

    You have Trammel, Malas, Ilshenar, Tokuno Islands - 80% of the abyss and the list goes on. You've got ample space to farm your flower seeds.

    Felucca has Britannia and T2A.

    Time for somewhere better than Yew gate for zerg guilds to hide out at.

    In my opinion the whole game should be shifted to a Felucca ruleset, with guardzones in place. There is so much room but so few players. Let's implement risk back into this game and give people an unfamiliar feeling to what this game was once meant to be as its creator intended.
     
  11. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    I can't comment specifically to any of this for reasons of focus groups, but I think you are likely to like what the devs have in store.
     
  12. Robthemilt

    Robthemilt Guest

    I used to play on a "Magical land" that had all the facets but no trammel and Malas was open to pvp. The only thing that really changes is that people learn to pay attention to whats going on around them. And hell the social aspect of PVM is just as viable if not MORE necessary than it is here. If you cant handle a lonely red...bring friends. And remember too, most of the pvpers are out looking...FOR PVPERS. Opening more space up to pvp is only going to spread us out more. Chances are you're not going to have FFBZ hanging out in one cave with R in another. If we're both on and aware of the other, chances are we're going to be together, and 90% of the pvpers on the shard will be there. At least thats how the "magical land" was, and it probably had a similar population to origin.

    As far as new content, I would love them to bring back bounties. No ins sections would be interesting too. They'd force people to go out in crappy armor and get the "old school" feel if they want it. In fact im beginning to like the idea, put up a champ spawn that would give something spawn specific for completion.

    Thieves would have a ball too.
     

  13. "But before that, within the Stygian Abyss, there are areas that are Player vs. Player combat that, are, I'll just go ahead and say it, where the "Care Bears" have to travel."

    That's an exact quote from what was said by a dev. The way I read that is that to get the full experience of SA there will be no choice but to go into a pvp area. Sorry but I don't play for pvp, I play to wind down from a long day at work or to just relax on my days off. Hence I won't be coming back for the expansion if I'm forced into pvp.

    @pan- Do you have a single nice thing to say to anyone? Every post from you that I've read is negative in one way or another, not to mention the amount of times I've seen you break the stratics roc.
     
  14. That's the way I understood it also and Im not liking the idea at all. If it is going to be mandatory now for people to play Fel in order to get the full benefits of SA, it is not worth purchasing. If that is the case, they are going to lose a lot of people. There are so many people excited with what they do know about some of the changes, but if they are essentially told they wont be able to participate in them unless they learn to be Fel players, most will opt to simply leave or not to upgrade to the new expansion.

    I hope this is not the case.
     
  15. Pan Arcane

    Pan Arcane Sage
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    Both Trammel and Felucca sides will see advantages out of this expansion. You're looking at Fel spawns in the Styg world, that's it. The rest of it is all directed toward the casual player, and all players are going to have no choice but to adapt with the template and itemization changes the Stygian Abyss will bring to the game. We saw the same type of deal with AoS/SE and other recent expansions.
     
  16. gunneroforgin

    gunneroforgin Slightly Crazed
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    the whole reason I began playing UO was that the UO Renaissance expansion came out limiting pvp aspects of Uo. I would hate to see a rebirth of the way UO was before UO-R. I will not buy the expansion if the above is true.
     
  17. Pan, I think what has gotten everyone stumped is the use of the phrase "have to". Exactly what is it that the Trammel players are going to "have to" do in order to participate in the new expansion?

    To me, it sounds like Trammel players will Have to travel through a Pvp area in order to get to a desired location. Such as, possibly having to go through a PVP area to get resourses needed to craft new items.

    But who knows, we could all be wrong....its happened before! LOL I guess its just another one of things that makes a new expansion exciting for people...the thrill of not knowing.
     
  18. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    If you have been in a focus or beta you can't talk about it. And if you haven't then you are just getting your panties in a bunch to support your guesswork.

    This game is all about choices. I believe we have a really good dev team who is committed to keeping UO UO in the ways that count.

    Everybody keep your hats on. You are going to find out a lot more about it in a very short while. Oh, the play was great, had a hellovatime and I'm glad to be back.

    Have a safe and happy holiday today!:pint:
     
  19. Nah, I dont think anyone is getting "their panties in a bunch". People are just answering the question posed by the OP, and that is "what do you think the Statement from Calvin means?" A lot of different takes on this statement.

    My question is, How hard will be it be to log on tomarrow? LOL I can remember in the past, especially when AOS launched, it literally took me 4 hours of trying to get into the game. I cant wait to see Origin full of people.

    Happy Holiday to you also Viquire and to all of Origin! :pint:
     
  20. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    lol, one word of frightful remembrance, "telestorm". I'll be taking a look see tomorrow, but I may wait until the day after to try and cross over. And there see, now I've said too much.
     
  21. LOL...dang it Viquire! Now you really have me wondering! That in itself is frightening! :eyes:
     
  22. Michael Wolf

    Michael Wolf Guest

    All I interpret from that comment is the SA release will will have some unique PvP content. Possibly like the champ spawns in Fel. Nothing wrong with that. PvP could use a little love once in awhile. Besides, if they give the PvP'rs something new to fight over maybe us Trammies can sneak in a few more Harrowers. :) And chanp spawns must be getting old, has anyone noticed the prices on scrolls under 120's.

    Here's a little UO history from someone who has been involved with all the PvP changes. I've been on every beta since T2a and participated in the Tram discussion groups as well as the champ spawn changes. All except the current that is, I decided SA was going to be new content to me for the first time in my UO history.

    In the beginning we had Fel an nothing else, not even the lost lands, 8 cites 8 dungeons, and crowded shards no matter where you went. PvP was non consensual anywhere outside the guard zones and you had to call the guards to defend you inside the guard zones. That may all sound like fun until you get years into it and large more powerful guilds have just gotten larger and more powerful.

    First of all, you current PvP'rs have no idea what PvP was in UO back then. Currently PvP is basically no loss, you lose a little insurance money and I believe you can suffer stat loss if your red? Originally PvP was total loss. You lost everything you had except your spell book. I wonder how good some of you would be without uber armor and weapons, because if you have died once you sure wouldn't have any of them to use. There were no rune books and you needed keys to get into your house and chests, if you got ganked outside your house you could lose everything you had in the game except what was in your bank. There were also thieves who could steal from your backpack while you were at the bank but that's another topic.

    UO became extremely unbalanced. On more populated shards like Atlantic you need a group of 10 just to go out killing Orc above ground, dungeons were pathetic. We'd get a group together and go out and do an upper level of a dungeon and as soon as we had accumulated some loot we'd get raided 2-3 to 1. Most likely using ghost cams. And then there were the cheaters, speed hacks, scripts, and illegal 3rd party programs that made it impossible to compete legitimately.

    Then the Idea of the Tram Fel Split, those who don't want to have PvP don't have to. It all sounded good on paper and in the forums, the plan had a good 75% approval rating. No one realized that was because 75% of the population planned on moving to Tram. Fel was deserted almost immediately. The large "Zerg" guilds had no one to fight. The PK's that would camp dungeons waiting to gank lonely hunters had no prey. Many who played UO for the PvP quit because it had basically died off.

    Champ spawns were invented to lure people back to Fel. Stick a unique treasure in the bottom of the Fel dungeons that takes a long time to spawn, prompting battlefields. Worked great, you guys love it. Revived PvP somewhat, at least gave the PvP'rs something to fight over and a reason to compete.

    So if the plan is to make a portion of the new content non consensual PvP that's cool. More PvP content is good.
     
  23. To the originally posted question.

    I don't believe most players want the "Wild Wild West" of UO. Many players refuse to even take a character to Fel and most that do play Fel, spend a great deal of time in Tram. As for as fairplay and taking your life in your hands when you leave the guard zones, that hasn't happen since AOS launched. AOS gave us arties, power scrolls, insurance, leather armor stronger than metal, a pvp playing field that is many things other than level or fair and a system where being a "murderer" (although socially unacceptable) is an advantage. Creating an environment that forces the "Care Bears" into pvp situations would be very detrimental to the game and cause a decrease of player population, probly proportionally to the effects of AOS.

    "Care Bears"? Does he mean Trammy's? I am a Trammy. My house is in tram. I usually hunt tram, Ilsh or Tokuno, but I do go to Fel alot more than most people think. I do gather some resources and do other things in Fel. There is the chance I may be jumped by reds or anyone else for that matter but as long as I stay clear of the Champ areas and the Yew gate I seldom see anyone actually hunting in Fel.

    Not a place to travel alone? Why? The pvp or the pvm?

    "Brain Challenging" vs. "Handholding" I like the brain challenging thing. Most quest or challenges of this nature in the past are short lived, not challenging, with rewards ending up in the trash barrels a year later. Hopefully it will be interesting to see what EA comes up with.
     
  24. mbraud4

    mbraud4 Sage
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    With risk comes reward...fwiw. As previous people have stated, majority of the landscape in uo is trammel ruleset. Its about time the devs take a step in this direction. Its good to see them aim to do something similar to how the game was originally intended. And I find it funny that he calls the trammies care bears.
     
  25. I think doing anything new for the pvp community will help the game as far as player population. Hopefully it will spark interested in players that have left the game and give them a good reason to come back and try it again. I dont think however, that risk for a mule would be a good idea nor rewarding.

    Its going to be a lot of fun tomarrow just to see all the new changes and new lands. Almost like Christmas! lol

    I see his calling Tram players "Care Bears", not especially funny. Maybe just a poor choice of words given the fact that they are customers of the company he works for. Its kinda like a Car salesman telling a customer that requested to buy a Volkswagon that he is a "Powder Puff" because he didnt want to purchase a SUV. Not cool! ROFL
     
  26. Where were the arties, the insurance, and all the uber weapons and armor in the original intent of the game? How many pvper's of today could pvp with pre-AOS weapons, armor, abilities and non ps skills? I use a few arties myself, the best weapons I can make or find and have eaten power scrolls as needed to even have a chance. But just how well would most pvper's do using gm exceptional armor and weapons with 250 ability points, 700-720 skill points on 7 to 8 skills not 6, and without dci, hci and ssi?
     
  27. mbraud4

    mbraud4 Sage
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    they would still do good, b/c they know what to do. Idc if they ake a shard with pub16 rules, I would love it.

    And tbh alot of the pvpers nowadays were aroudn back then, and killed people back then as well. I am missing your point on this one? Are you trying to imply that the pvpers nowadays are really just as good as u but just have better gear? Even tho most do have far better gear than you (myself included), I still dont think you stand a chance without. But I cannot say you will or wont to a certain degree, but my gut feeling is that if everyone faught with just GM gear, the pvpers nowadays actually know tactics and what to do in the field. Remember, the energy field that kills you b/c you did not know not to run into a certain place b/c its a trappable spot was only cast by a spell, not by an uber weapon or was a spell that needed 120 magery or eval. It is your inexperience and poor decision making and their knowing what to do and when to do it.
     
  28. here we go again...... i wanted to see what ideas you guys had in the way of what he meant by wild wild west .... i dont want the arguement of pvpers vs trammies again... enough of the threads have been about this lately.
    Cal was flamed over and over when this was originally posted to UHall for the care bears term. Lets please not start over and start flaming ppl for their opinions.

    Personally, I like the no insurance areas idea. I would like to see people get crappy suits on and see how well they do. There will be no one running around with bows or mage weps that cost 100mil+ or jewel sets that cost 50mil+.
    I dont doubt that for some they would still do just as well as they would've with these items, but for some, their templates were made around these 100mil+ suits and they might not do so well without them.

    I dont know when I am downloading it and I dont know when the accouncement will come about whats going on, but I'm looking forward to finding out.
     
  29. Right... But alas, this argrument is moot, because a revert to the day before AOS will never happen. I simply stated part of my opinion. Defending what is now is as easy as bashing it, there is no way to prove or disprove either position.
     
  30. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Right! The environment then was thrilling for adrenaline junkies and can be, with a lot of work, now. The challenges were different in form, but they were what you made them from what could be done in the overall environment.

    And then like now, you chose to do what seemed exciting to you at the time, with friends or without.

    And remember its not JUST the client or the content of the game that has changed, UOAM servers was a big leap forward, streaming voice data was a game changing coordination tool. None of these things were widely used at even the second age, now you wouldn't dream of having a large scale event without them. But that drastically changes the overall "feel" of the player in their play environment.
     
  31. Multani

    Multani Journeyman
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    I am beginning to doubt you even played the game back when you 'lost everything', the birth of the Zerg guild arrived with Publish 16 you know when control meant everything. Prior to the introduction of champion spawns guilds had no reason to zerg.

    Losing reagents and a halbred when you die in combat is hardly losing everything.
     
  32. Stussywear

    Stussywear Journeyman
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    Im with soldevi on this one. Unless you're refering to preuor where someone maybe had a house key on them ,and lost everything.. anything after uor was not that big of a deal. Honestly i was more pissed about losing a stack of a hundred bandaids then a katana of power or a pack full of regs.

    I hated cutting bandages one by one. It sucked :(

    I played on pacific before Lake Austin and Origin opened, and i dont ever remember big groups running heavy unless there was faction wars going on.

    Back on pac your big guilds were such as OPP, TVA, DF, etc... but even with larger groups like them running around.. it was never zerged like today, so i dont know what you're talking about. Nobody ever ghost cammed anything until powerscrolls.

    Statloss for reds wasnt that BIG of a deal, because you could build an entire character pretty quickly back then. So building your skills from statloss wasnt the end of the world.
     
  33. Tay M'real

    Tay M'real Guest

    dude - seriously? I'm not even a PvPer and you're being a little whiney. You already have insurance to protect all your goodies - so heaven forbid that you are forced to interact with some PvPers..they have as much a right to play their game as you do yours. Why should they be forced to sit in barren Felluca where the land looks like crap and there's hardly anyone around?

    There is Trammel, Malas, Tokuno, Doom and most of the new content that is Trammel friendly...I mean, sheesh...really?
     
  34. Stussywear

    Stussywear Journeyman
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    :thumbsup:
     

  35. I've never said that pvp'ers shouldn't be able to play their game as long as I'm not forced into playing their game also. I really don't care about my goodies or pixels. I hear enough negativity at my job that I don't want to come to a game, that I play for fun, just to hear a bunch of people being even more negative.

    As far as being forced to sit in a barren felucca, well that's strictly their choice just as it's my choice not to go there. Not to mention that the reason it is barren is a direct result of the way they play their game. Are you beginning to see the vicious circle here?

    I think it's great that pvp'ers are being given some new content but there should never be non-con pvp. There aren't any successful MMO's currently that have a strictly non-con pvp system in place. Every single one has alternatives. Even the ones that do have pvp zones give you the choice to be flagged for pvp or not.
     
  36. Tay M'real

    Tay M'real Guest

    UO was the premier MMORPG when it had only Felluca. People want to tout subscriptions as a means of identifying success...so of course someone would throw out WoW. Well, seriously, WoW has a ridiculous subscription count because of the market of farming which turns into real cash becuase people burn real money for pixels. UO thrived when that economy was little to nothing....people got burned, but they made it work...they rallied and lived in 'the wild wild west'. There was something to be said for having 10k back then. You earned it - you worked for it...there was risk and reward.

    Show me an MMORPG (today) that could touch the toenails of UO in 99/00....

    I wasn't a PvPer but I managed to have a ton of fun...got into good guilds, roleplayed...did all the things I wanted to do...yeah it sucked to get PKd sometimes but that's the way it goes. Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug...have a bad day at work - go do something safe. You're asked to walk through an area that would likely take no more than a few minutes and feel a little rush...it's not going to hurt you...you don't have to engage in the PvP....just run away
     

  37. LOL, of course UO was the premier MMO when it was only felucca. It might as well have been the only one. When UO came out there had only been one other MMO ever. in 99/00 there was really no other one to play so of course it had all the subscribers. I notice all you've mentioned was the time before EQ came out. Remember what happened at that time? Yep, UO lost a major amount of it's subscribers once it had competition.
     
  38. Michael Wolf

    Michael Wolf Guest


    OK a Huge Guild and don't tell me they didn't exist before champ spawns. There were always large guilds that dominated certain shards. You'll notice I had put "Zerg" in quotes as for lack of a better term.

    And Total loss meant just that. Nothing was insured or blessed, so no not just a hally and a few reg, but your whole suite and anything else you happened to be carrying. The only things you were guaranteed back was your spell book, and items you were born with, newbie clothing, newbie scissors and practice weapons. Runes weren't blessed and rune books didn't exist. And if you were stupid enough to carry them, keys to your houses, boats, and chests were lootable too.

    PvP wasn't a matter of fun, or if you were good at it, it was survival, and if you were bad enough you just didn't leave town or you found a different game.
     
  39. Stussywear

    Stussywear Journeyman
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    A lot of people didnt really wear armor back then..

    Mages pretty much wore cloth.. nothing else..


    If you were a dexer, the most common suit was called the light archer, (Ringmail Tunic sleeves legs arms, Platemail gorget, with either Close helm or Plate helm)

    Dying in UO with the exception of those carrying around said preUOR items that were very unreplaceable, was no big deal.


    Big guilds did rule shards, but you're nuts if you think that back then, that was any big deal. It was usually battles in either Brit Moongate, or faction strongholds. I played the most popular west coast shard, and never had any problem.

    As far as the comment where "I dont care if people pvp, but i shouldnt have to". Well, there are other things in game, that pvpers are forced to do in trammel, malas, and ish to be able to play and equip characters, so grow up and deal with it. Do you think i enjoy doing doom? No, but to get artifacts i had to deal with it and do it.

    If you want what felucca has to offer, (power scrolls, new dungeons etc...) then deal with it. We have 1 facet to your many.
     
  40. Oh do I remember the days of "losing everything when you got killed"! I had a chest full of armor ready and waiting so each time I died I could get back and get suited up.

    I think when it hit me the worst was during the Juka invasion. I lost my first vanq Katana and was upset.I had had to sell scrolls for months to get the million gold to pay for it.

    I remember very very large tamer guilds. At the time you could have multiple dragons too. Was scary runing into the bank when they were there. You couldnt hardly see anyone because the dragons covered everyone up.

    Back then you made the choice to take your best weapons to a fight or not. You didnt know if you would return home with them or not.

    Hehehe...Michael we have to stop reminiscing like this or we are going to show our age!
     
  41. Stussywear

    Stussywear Journeyman
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    I actually remember getting more power and vanq weapons off killing nobles outside of moonglow, then i did at like Elder Gazers, or anyother monsters.

    It was always interesting out there too, because you'd eventually run into someone who would exploit by cutting the corpse, and then looting your kills. I remember constantly making the trip to the bank to drop a fel stone to duel. I always carried a deadly poisoned war fork with me, and usually won my fights.

    God i miss the old days..when specials were random (minus disarm and stun). When a thief could run up and disarm steal a warriors weapon, and then stand there laughing while they had nothing to use. The days of Dread Lords actually meaning something. UO was more fun then, then it is now. But, Im still addicted.
     
  42. Michael Wolf

    Michael Wolf Guest

    Yeah I was actually quite pissed off when the Necro Mage I've been training got a Dread Lady title and she's never even fought another player never mind killed one. Got the title killin' Ogre Lords. My first thought was "there was a day when you had to actually earn this title."
     
  43. I couldnt agree with you more.
     
  44. Stussywear

    Stussywear Journeyman
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    You arent being forced to pvp anymore then we are being forced to pvm.

    If you want the rewards of the area, you deal with everything that comes with it.


    I hate playing for hours and hours to get arties, but if i want them, i HAVE to do it.

    It's something we have to deal with, why shouldnt you have to? You have well more then half of the game for nonpvp areas.